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If Jacaerys Velaryon (or his brothers) had succeeded to the Iron Throne, would it have officially passed to House Velaryon, or would they have taken up the name Targaryen, like Harrold Hardyng will take up the name Arryn should he inherit the Eyrie?

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14 hours ago, Pride of Driftmark said:

If Jacaerys Velaryon (or his brothers) had succeeded to the Iron Throne, would it have officially passed to House Velaryon, or would they have taken up the name Targaryen, like Harrold Hardyng will take up the name Arryn should he inherit the Eyrie?

This question crops up frequently and the short answer is we do not know. More detailed discussion can be found in one of the many threads on the subject (i’ll edit in some link so later I found I remember to)

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16 hours ago, Pride of Driftmark said:

If Jacaerys Velaryon (or his brothers) had succeeded to the Iron Throne, would it have officially passed to House Velaryon, or would they have taken up the name Targaryen, like Harrold Hardyng will take up the name Arryn should he inherit the Eyrie?

 

1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

This question crops up frequently and the short answer is we do not know. More detailed discussion can be found in one of the many threads on the subject (i’ll edit in some link so later I found I remember to)

Indeed, we do not know. There is no precedent from the book to go by. Perhaps both options are possible, and it is a personal preference? We don't know.

I would, however, like to add a statement from the recently released Fire and Blood (I can't recall whether the statement was also in TPATQ, so hence the spoiler brackets):

Spoiler

Jacaerys at one point declares himself (and his brothers) to be Targaryens, to which his grandfather Corlys Velaryon replies that they are Velaryons, not Targaryens, although he looks proud to hear Jace's statement.

Based on that, at the moment I would assume that Jace would ascend using the name Targaryen, but that is pure speculation.

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24 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Was Rhaena's dragon, Morning, hatched at the Eyrie?

Spoiler

Yes.

Even more grave were the tidings from the Vale, where Lady Jeyne Arryn had assembled fifteen hundred knights and eight thousands men-at-arms, and sent envoys to the Braavosi to arrange for ships to bring them down upon King's Landing. With them would come a dragon. Lady Rhaena of House Targaryen, brave Baela's twin, had brought a dragon's egg with her to the Vale . . . an egg that had proved fertile, bringing forth a pale pink hatchling with black horns and crest. Rhaena named her Morning. (Fire and Blood)

 

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On 12/11/2018 at 3:36 PM, Springwatch said:

My books have 'grey' always spelled with an 'e', when I was expecting 'gray' with an 'a'.

Do other editions have gray with an a?

The english language is overly complicated. Basically depends on where a person lives--- USA, UK, Africa, AU --- grey with an e or gray with an a --- lets call in the literary experts --- the dreaded english professors. :love:

As far as I know american english is the bastard form of British english. :dunce:

What do I know? The commonly known american history is relatively short in comparison to Asian, European, Middle Eastern, African history.

Let us not forget the Canadians, South Americans and native populations world wide.

 

 

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I get interested in the quirky choice of words. English-isms could maybe add a flavour of medieval europe - but I'm not sure that's the idea (really, all languages are cousins of equal age).

I think he's a wordsmith, first and last. Just likes to play around with the spelling.

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2 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Does Jamie know that Peck testified against Tyrion? 

Good question. I did some poking around and I cannot find any direct source that says so. It may exist and some other poster may know it, but in the meantime I found this. Not sure that Peck is in the "foes" category, I mean, Jaime does his friendly duty with Peck and Pia, so I guess I am not sure:

  • A Feast for Crows - Jaime III

    . . . she's been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and Moon Boy for all I know . . .

    Forty knights and as many esquires awaited him outside the Red Keep's stables. Half were westermen sworn to House Lannister, the others recent foes turned doubtful friends. Ser Dermot of the Rainwood would carry Tommen's standard, Red Ronnet Connington the white banner of the Kingsguard. A Paege, a Piper, and a Peckledon would share the honor of squiring for the Lord Commander. "Keep friends at your back and foes where you can see them," Sumner Crakehall had once counseled him. Or had that been Father?

This is the part about Peck during Tyrion's trial. Interesting, but maybe Peck wasn't being totally malicious, just truthful? :

  • A Storm of Swords - Tyrion IX

    "Silence!" Lord Tywin said. "I have told you thrice. The next time, you shall be gagged and chained."

    After Pycelle came the procession, endless and wearisome. Lords and ladies and noble knights, highborn and humble alike, they had all been present at the wedding feast, had all seen Joffrey choke, his face turning as black as a Dornish plum. Lord Redwyne, Lord Celtigar, and Ser Flement Brax had heard Tyrion threaten the king; two serving men, a juggler, Lord Gyles, Ser Hobber Redwyne, and Ser Philip Foote had observed him fill the wedding chalice; Lady Merryweather swore that she had seen the dwarf drop something into the king's wine while Joff and Margaery were cutting the pie; old Estermont, young Peckledon, the singer Galyeon of Cuy, and the squires Morros and Jothos Slynt told how Tyrion had picked up the chalice as Joff was dying and poured out the last of the poisoned wine onto the floor.

    When did I make so many enemies? Lady Merryweather was all but a stranger. Tyrion wondered if she was blind or bought. At least Galyeon of Cuy had not set his account to music, or else there might have been seventy-seven bloody verses to it.

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I recently asked this question to the two other booknerds I gab with in real life, but I am still trying to find the "first" answer as we all had a similar idea... but I'm still looking for the *magic start*, ya know what I mean?

When did the practice of arranged marriages, especially to those between other regions/kingdoms, begin in Westeros?

I am not doubting if it happened, nor why (knit the realm, increase allies, etc), but when was the first time we hear of this in the series as a whole? Was it the Durrandon-Baratheon union? Some Hightower match? Just having some brain blanks is all.

Thanks in advance :cheers:

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20 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Good question. I did some poking around and I cannot find any direct source that says so. It may exist and some other poster may know it, but in the meantime I found this. Not sure that Peck is in the "foes" category, I mean, Jaime does his friendly duty with Peck and Pia, so I guess I am not sure:

  • A Feast for Crows - Jaime III

    . . . she's been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and Moon Boy for all I know . . .

    Forty knights and as many esquires awaited him outside the Red Keep's stables. Half were westermen sworn to House Lannister, the others recent foes turned doubtful friends. Ser Dermot of the Rainwood would carry Tommen's standard, Red Ronnet Connington the white banner of the Kingsguard. A Paege, a Piper, and a Peckledon would share the honor of squiring for the Lord Commander. "Keep friends at your back and foes where you can see them," Sumner Crakehall had once counseled him. Or had that been Father?

This is the part about Peck during Tyrion's trial. Interesting, but maybe Peck wasn't being totally malicious, just truthful? :

  • A Storm of Swords - Tyrion IX

    "Silence!" Lord Tywin said. "I have told you thrice. The next time, you shall be gagged and chained."

    After Pycelle came the procession, endless and wearisome. Lords and ladies and noble knights, highborn and humble alike, they had all been present at the wedding feast, had all seen Joffrey choke, his face turning as black as a Dornish plum. Lord Redwyne, Lord Celtigar, and Ser Flement Brax had heard Tyrion threaten the king; two serving men, a juggler, Lord Gyles, Ser Hobber Redwyne, and Ser Philip Foote had observed him fill the wedding chalice; Lady Merryweather swore that she had seen the dwarf drop something into the king's wine while Joff and Margaery were cutting the pie; old Estermont, young Peckledon, the singer Galyeon of Cuy, and the squires Morros and Jothos Slynt told how Tyrion had picked up the chalice as Joff was dying and poured out the last of the poisoned wine onto the floor.

    When did I make so many enemies? Lady Merryweather was all but a stranger. Tyrion wondered if she was blind or bought. At least Galyeon of Cuy had not set his account to music, or else there might have been seventy-seven bloody verses to it.

To be fair, Peck testified to what we read. 

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22 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

To be fair, Peck testified to what we read. 

Oh yes, I totally agree. I guess I wasn't clear with that :( That that's why Peck isn't on the "foe" side, and why Jaime set he and Pia up together- he simply told the truth, what we readers also saw. From my quick re-reads, I never crossed anything where Jaime has any ill thoughts of Peck.

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1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Oh yes, I totally agree. I guess I wasn't clear with that :( That that's why Peck isn't on the "foe" side, and why Jaime set he and Pia up together- he simply told the truth, what we readers also saw. From my quick re-reads, I never crossed anything where Jaime has any ill thoughts of Peck.

Me neither. 

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11 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Oh yes, I totally agree. I guess I wasn't clear with that :( That that's why Peck isn't on the "foe" side, and why Jaime set he and Pia up together- he simply told the truth, what we readers also saw. From my quick re-reads, I never crossed anything where Jaime has any ill thoughts of Peck.

Recent foes turned doubtful friends more than likely refers to Riverlords, Stormlanders and Reachmen, who were all recent “foes” of House Lannister. At least that’s how the sentence reads to me, rather than Jaime thinking of personal foes/friends he refers to foes of house Lannister in terms of the war

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On 12/17/2018 at 5:54 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

I recently asked this question to the two other booknerds I gab with in real life, but I am still trying to find the "first" answer as we all had a similar idea... but I'm still looking for the *magic start*, ya know what I mean?

When did the practice of arranged marriages, especially to those between other regions/kingdoms, begin in Westeros?

I am not doubting if it happened, nor why (knit the realm, increase allies, etc), but when was the first time we hear of this in the series as a whole? Was it the Durrandon-Baratheon union? Some Hightower match? Just having some brain blanks is all.

Thanks in advance

:cheers:

 

There's this from Nimble Dick. Not the most reliable of narrators, but he seems to know what he's talking about.

Quote

When he was not singing, Nimble Dick would talk, regaling them with tales of Crackclaw Point. Every gloomy valley had its lord, he said, the lot of them united only by their mistrust of outsiders. In their veins the blood of the First Men ran dark and strong. “The Andals tried t’ take Crackclaw, but we bled them in the valleys and drowned them in the bogs. Only what their sons couldn’t win with swords, their pretty daughters won with kisses. They married into the houses they couldn’t conquer, aye."

 

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Is it ever confirmed anywhere in the cannon that Cersei somehow had Robert killed by the Boar? I think of it like it’s a given but don’t remember a specific POV where it’s confirmed.

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