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Small Questions v. 10105

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7 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

How come Renly and Stannis were never referred to as "Princes?" 

Lots of old threads on this. But one prevalent theory is that they were not born as royalty, so even though they were in line for the throne before Joff was born, they were not refereed to as princes. 

 

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19 hours ago, Isobel Harper said:

Three questions concerning the Martells and Mellario.

Coincidentally, I've been doing some research into this lately, possibly in preparation for a project. A short version as an answer to your questions below. (I'm going to tackle your questions in the order in which they occured in the timeline)

 

19 hours ago, Isobel Harper said:

What year did Doran visit Mellario in Norvos?  (It's mentioned in one of Arianne's chapters, but I forget which one.)

We don't know exactly. We know that Tyrion wanted to tour the Free Cities at the age of sixteen, and that his uncles had done so at that age as well. That might suggest that Doran would have left Dorne for the Free Cities at a similar age. We also know that by 273 AC, Doran had returned to Westeros, with Mellario, and they were, at this point, already betrothed. 

Since Doran was born in either 247 AC or 248 AC, he would have turned 16 in 263/264 AC. I'd this assume that Doran left at a later age than Tyrion had wanted to, and his uncles had done. Especially considering the fact that he said he visited his mother whilst Oberyn was at the Water Gardens (born in 257/258 AC, Oberyn's years at the WG would have begun in 262/263, and lasted maximally 6 years - though possibly, he was fostered away at an earlier age than 11, like Doran himself had been), It would seem that Doran indeed left for the Free Cities at a later age than 16. (Perhaps this is associated with the fact that he was the heir to the Kingdom, and not a younger son, like Tyrion's uncles had been).

We also don't know which route Doran took, nor how long it took him in total. All we know about his travels is that, on his way to Norvos, he visited Volantis.

 

By 273 AC, Mellario and Doran were betrothed and in Dorne, but we have no idea (nor any hint) as to when they arrived in Dorne, or when their betrothal began. We do know, however, that they were married within a few years, as Arianne was born in 267 AC.

 

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What year did Doran attempt to have Arianne brought to Tyrosh to meet Viserys? 

Arianne was supposed to be a cupbearer to the Archon, and the cupbearers mentioned in the story are generall some 10 to 12 years of age. Considering her birth year (276 AC), that would have been around 286/288 AC).

 

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What year did Mellario return to Norvos?  (This is the same year that Doran attempted to have Arianne meet with Viserys in Tyrosh, correct?)

I recently added this one to the wiki as well. Mellario was still in Dorne when Arianne was 14 years old (thus, in 290 or 291 AC). We also know that Doran and Mellario spent "half their marriage" apart. Since their marriage began in or between 273 AC And 276 AC, still being in Dorne in 290/291 AC would already mean that she spent more than exactly half of her marriage in Dorne. Thus, suggesting that she would have left rather shortly after the memory Arianne has placing her in Dorne (shortly meaning anything up to a few short year). But the early 290ties, certainly.

 

And nothing is said about that being the same year as Doran trying to send Arianne to Tyrosh. In fact, I'd say multiple things point against that being the case.

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Princess Daella Targaryen married the Lord of the Eyrie, Rodrik Arryn. Why didn't their only daughter Aemma Arryn inherit the Eyrie? 

Edited by Arystan

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6 minutes ago, Arystan said:

Princess Daella Targaryen married the Lord of the Eyrie, Rodrik Arryn. Why didn't their only daughter Aemma Arryn inherit the Eyrie? 

Since we don't have complete family trees, could Rodrik have had a son and/or more children by another wife?

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1 hour ago, Ser Leftwich said:

Lots of old threads on this. But one prevalent theory is that they were not born as royalty, so even though they were in line for the throne before Joff was born, they were not refereed to as princes. 

 

Wonder why the Stark kids are considered princes and princesses

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13 minutes ago, Ser Leftwich said:

Since we don't have complete family trees, could Rodrik have had a son and/or more children by another wife?

 

8 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

If Arianne had married Viserys, she wouldn't have inherited Dorne as well. Just as Mariah Martell abandoned her claim to Dorne when she married Daeron.

Thank you for the answers.Yeah it's possible that Rodrik had a son by another wife..

I may confuse dates..Was Baelon already Jaehaerys' heir when Aemma and Viserys married?

 

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7 minutes ago, Arystan said:

 

Thank you for the answers.Yeah it's possible that Rodrik had a son by another wife..

I may confuse dates..Was Baelon already Jaehaerys' heir when Aemma and Viserys married?

 

Viserys and Aemma married in 93 AC, Baelon became Jaehaerys's heir in 92 AC. So either Aemma abandoned her claim, or had other siblings.

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Viserys married Aemma in 93 AC, Baelon was chosen by Jaehaerys I in 92 AC. I think the wedding took place in a big rush due to the fact that Baelon's line needed some support against Rhaenys' Baratheons and Velaryons. That led to all the miscarriages since Aemma was just around 12 years old at that time.

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@Rhaenys_Targaryen

Dank je . it's clear now.

10 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

I think the wedding took place in a big rush due to the fact that Baelon's line needed some support against Rhaenys' Baratheons and Velaryons. That led to all the miscarriages since Aemma was just around 12 years old at that time.

Poor Aemma. I've never noticed that. Thanks.

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Little question about House Arryn, do we have any clue about the year of Ronnel Arryn death (Jon's brother) ?

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8 minutes ago, Kal-L said:

Little question about House Arryn, do we have any clue about the year of Ronnel Arryn death (Jon's brother) ?

"Elys and Alys, isn't that precious? Lord Jasper's younger son, Ser Ronnel Arryn, wed a Belmore girl, but only rang her once or twice before dying of a bad belly. Their son Elbert was being born in one bed even as poor Ronnel was dying in another down the hall. Are you paying close attention, sweetling?"  - AFfC p. ??

Since Elbert was with Brandon when he crashed King's Landing, he is probably around the same age Brandon, give or take a few years. So, generously, sometime between 258-265.

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56 minutes ago, Arystan said:

@Rhaenys_Targaryen

Dank je . it's clear now.

Poor Aemma. I've never noticed that. Thanks.

 

1 hour ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Viserys married Aemma in 93 AC, Baelon was chosen by Jaehaerys I in 92 AC. I think the wedding took place in a big rush due to the fact that Baelon's line needed some support against Rhaenys' Baratheons and Velaryons. That led to all the miscarriages since Aemma was just around 12 years old at that time.

 

Also notice how Laena Velaryon was born in 93 AC. It is, of course, possible that Rhaenys was already pregnant during Jaehaerys's decision to name Baelon as his heir. But it is also possible that Rhaenys only became pregnant in 93 AC. In either case, Baelon could have seen it as a threat to his (and his son's) claim, if Rhaenys were to birth a son (giving Aemon a male descendant), and thus, married his son to a direct descendant of his next sibling (Daella).

 

3 minutes ago, Kal-L said:

Little question about House Arryn, do we have any clue about the year of Ronnel Arryn death (Jon's brother) ?

No. He died when his son Elbert was being born, and Elbert was a companion of Brandon Stark. That might suggest that Elbert was near Brandon's age, but that is by no means certain.

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During the kingsmoot in Aeron's second chapter in AFFC a gull squawking is mentioned several times. Is there any significance to this? My first thought was BR. Are there any thought, theories, or opinions on this? Or am I reading into a stupid squawking bird too much?

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In GoT Arya (chapter 13) kills the stableboy and then needs to pluck up the courage to cross the yard to escape the keep. A voice helps - "fear cuts deeper than swords" etc. She physically jumps and isn't sure who's voice it is. Any ideas? Syrio? *pleaseletitbesyrio!*

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This is dumb but is bothering me:  Why is Jorah considered an Andal when he is from the North?  Are the Mormonts andals like the Manderlys.  Did Andals marry into their First Men house?  Is it simply because he is Knight which is strange in the north?  Thanks

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53 minutes ago, Rob Storm said:

This is dumb but is bothering me:  Why is Jorah considered an Andal when he is from the North?  Are the Mormonts andals like the Manderlys.  Did Andals marry into their First Men house?  Is it simply because he is Knight which is strange in the north?  Thanks

It's kinda like how a lot of gringos think all the folks south of the Rio Grande are Mexicans. 

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3 hours ago, SonofMag said:

In GoT Arya (chapter 13) kills the stableboy and then needs to pluck up the courage to cross the yard to escape the keep. A voice helps - "fear cuts deeper than swords" etc. She physically jumps and isn't sure who's voice it is. Any ideas? Syrio? *pleaseletitbesyrio!*

I guess you are only just reading the books now? Throughout the books, Arya recalls her "dance master's" (I.e. Syrio's) lessons - fear cuts deeper than swords, etc. It's not because he is physically with her, but because she places a high degree of importance on what he taught her.

1 hour ago, Rob Storm said:

This is dumb but is bothering me:  Why is Jorah considered an Andal when he is from the North?  Are the Mormonts andals like the Manderlys.  Did Andals marry into their First Men house?  Is it simply because he is Knight which is strange in the north?  Thanks

Iirc the Dothraki call Westeros the land of the Andals or something similar, so anyone from there would be considered an Andal. I doubt they have detailed knowledge of each family's cultural heritage

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13 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Wonder why the Stark kids are considered princes and princesses

Hmm, two simple answers.

1) technically, the kids of most paramount houses are in direct lineage to kings, making them princes. And even if they aren't, they might still be considered to be princes. To distinguish princes from heirs to the royal throne, the latter may be called princes of the blood.

2) at the time Robb became King in the North and The Riverlands, in the manner of -1)- above, his direct relatives, his brothers and sisters became his heirs as long as Robb remained childless - thus princes (of the blood). Quite apparently so.

Heading back to Renly and Stannis,

there is an answer I am almost happy with: Renly and Stannis have been known as great lords in their own right, before their brother started the Barratheon line on the Iron Throne. And kept their titles. Neither of them cared to be known as princes. By conjecture, we must think that Robert never cared to fix his succession officially before we see him do that on-page talking to Ned. Instead he gave Dragonstone to Stannis, quite possibly implying Stannis was made Prince of Dragonstone (and Renly lord of the Stormlands) until Robert begot his own children "of the blood".

And after that, the question of his brothers being princes became moot, if it had not been before.

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On 19/04/2016 at 3:56 PM, The Snow Bear said:

Basically he's just some youtube comentator whose crime it is to state theories that oft are a little too farfetched.

 

On 19/04/2016 at 4:01 PM, RumHam said:

I haven't really followed the situation, but my understanding was that his crime was using other people's art and stuff (maybe theories also?) without permission or credit in his videos.

Thanks for your answers, that does make sense, although the sheer amount of hatred for him still does seem excessive if those are his only crimes.

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