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Small Questions v. 10105

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1 hour ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Just a repost to get some thoughts (hopefully).

I know you are going to get mixed responses to this. There are some that believe Bloodraven can warg anything, anywhere and there are some who believe every one eyed character or animal is BR is disguise. 

I happen to not think this because I think even BR has some limitations or restrictions within his own power. 

And to add to this, there are others that posit Bran is time traveling through trees and possibly birds, so it could be him too. Sansa is also being linked to skinchanging into birds because she lost her dire wolf. She is one of the pack, but set one apart like Jon Snow, whom she always referred to as her "bastard brother ". 

I hope this doesn't sound mocking, but it could just be one of these things we are meant to ponder on but never get an answer? We won't know until we all read "the end" in the pages of ADOS. :cheers:

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1 hour ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Just a repost to get some thoughts (hopefully).

Here are the relevant parts of the chapter...

Quote

"He shall. He must." Aeron's voice thundered like the waves. "But who? Who shall sit in Balon's place? Who shall rule these holy isles? Is he here among us now?" The priest spread his hands wide. "Who shall be king over us?"

A seagull screamed back at him. The crowd began to stir, like men waking from a dream. Each man looked at his neighbors, to see which of them might presume to claim a crown. The Crow's Eye was never patient, Aeron Damphair told himself. Mayhaps he will speak first. If so, it would be his undoing. The captains and the kings had come a long way to this feast and would not choose the first dish set before them. They will want to taste and sample, a bite of him, a nibble of the other, until they find the one that suits them best.

. . .

Soon enough the cries of "Gylbert! Gylbert King!" faded away to silence. The gull screamed loudly above them, and landed atop one of Nagga's ribs as the Lord of the Lonely Light made his way back down the hill.

Aeron Damphair stepped forward once more. "I ask again. Who shall be king over us?"

"Me!" a deep voice boomed, and once more the crowd parted.

The speaker was borne up the hill in a carved driftwood chair carried on the shoulders of his grandsons.

. . .

"Who shall rule the ironborn?" Aeron Damphair called again. "Who shall be king over us?"

Men looked at one another. Some looked at Euron, some at Victarion, a few at Asha. Waves broke green and white against the longships. The gull cried once more, a raucous scream, forlorn. "Make your claim, Victarion," the Merlyn called. "Let us have done with this mummer's farce."

"When I am ready," Victarion shouted back.

. . .

The hornblower's breath failed at last. He staggered and almost fell. The priest saw Orkwood of Orkmont catch him by one arm to hold him up, whilst Left-Hand Lucas Codd took the twisted black horn from his hands. A thin wisp of smoke was rising from the horn, and the priest saw blood and blisters upon the lips of the man who'd sounded it. The bird on his chest was bleeding too.

Euron Greyjoy climbed the hill slowly, with every eye upon him. Above the gull screamed and screamed again. No godless man may sit the Seastone Chair, Aeron thought, but he knew that he must let his brother speak. His lips moved silently in prayer.

Asha's champions stepped aside, and Victarion's as well. The priest took a step backward and put one hand upon the cold rough stone of Nagga's ribs. The Crow's Eye stopped atop the steps, at the doors of the Grey King's Hall, and turned his smiling eye upon the captains and the kings, but Aeron could feel his other eye as well, the one that he kept hidden.

The Drowned Man, Feast 19

Sorry mate, but I think The George included the gull to enhance the scene and to set the mood. If the seagull screaming at Aeron is from anyone, it’s from The Drowned God. You see, the seagull was associated with the sea god of Irish mythology, Lir. And seagulls, like ravens, have been depicted has messengers between the real and mystical worlds. Notice here that the seagull screams the first time when Aeron asks, “Who shall be king over us?” This is reminiscent of Jeor’s crow and Jon, but what the hell does Rhaegar’s true son have to do with the Seastone Chair? After the first claimant is rejected, the seagull perches on Nagga’s Ribs. At this point, we know that Nagga is sacred to the Ironmen, and The Reader tells Asha,

Quote

“When last the salt kings and the rock kings met in kingsmoot, Urron of Orkmont let his axemen loose among them, and Nagga's ribs turned red with gore. House Greyiron ruled unchosen for a thousand years from that dark day, until the Andals came.”

The Kraken's Daughter, Feast 11

So, perhaps it is a foreshadowing of Euron’s purge.  

Quote

On the crown of the hill four-and-forty monstrous stone ribs rose from the earth like the trunks of great pale trees. The sight made Aeron's heart beat faster. Nagga had been the first sea dragon, the mightiest ever to rise from the waves. She fed on krakens and leviathans and drowned whole islands in her wrath, yet the Grey King had slain her and the Drowned God had changed her bones to stone so that men might never cease to wonder at the courage of the first of kings. Nagga's ribs became the beams and pillars of his longhall, just as her jaws became his throne. For a thousand years and seven he reigned here, Aeron recalled. Here he took his mermaid wife and planned his wars against the Storm God. From here he ruled both stone and salt, wearing robes of woven seaweed and a tall pale crown made from Nagga's teeth.

. . .

The Storm God drowned Nagga's fire after the Grey King's death,

If we accept Daenerys as the female sea dragon and Euron as the Grey King and the Storm God, this sequence could foreshadow Euron slaying Daenerys. (or perhaps Tyrion’s grey scale will do the job?)

But getting back to the gull. . .  The fourth time the Drowned God’s messenger cries, it sounds forlorn, or hopeless. That’s when Victarion announces he will hear other claims before making his own. The last time we hear from the gull, it screams again and again as Euron makes his claim, and Aeron thinks that no godless man may sit the Seastone Chair.

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

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3 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Here are the relevant parts of the chapter...

The Drowned Man, Feast 19

Sorry mate, but I think The George included the gull to enhance the scene and to set the mood. If the seagull screaming at Aeron is from anyone, it’s from The Drowned God. You see, the seagull was associated with the sea god of Irish mythology, Lir. And seagulls, like ravens, have been depicted has messengers between the real and mystical worlds. Notice here that the seagull screams the first time when Aeron asks, “Who shall be king over us?” This is reminiscent of Jeor’s crow and Jon, but what the hell does Rhaegar’s true son have to do with the Seastone Chair? After the first claimant is rejected, the seagull perches on Nagga’s Ribs. At this point, we know that Nagga is sacred to the Ironmen, and The Reader tells Asha,

The Kraken's Daughter, Feast 11

So, perhaps it is a foreshadowing of Euron’s purge.  

If we accept Daenerys as the female sea dragon and Euron as the Grey King and the Storm God, this sequence could foreshadow Euron slaying Daenerys. (or perhaps Tyrion’s grey scale will do the job?)

But getting back to the gull. . .  The third time the Drowned God’s messenger cries, it sounds forlorn, or hopeless. That’s when Victarion announces he will hear other claims before making his own. The last time we hear from the gull, it screams again and again as Euron makes his claim, and Aeron thinks that no godless man may sit the Seastone Chair.

On my phone and it's hard to edit, but I just want to second your thought that if the flying rat was sent by anyone, it would be the Drowned God. 

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31 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I know you are going to get mixed responses to this. There are some that believe Bloodraven can warg anything, anywhere and there are some who believe every one eyed character or animal is BR is disguise. 

I happen to not think this because I think even BR has some limitations or restrictions within his own power. 

And to add to this, there are others that posit Bran is time traveling through trees and possibly birds, so it could be him too. Sansa is also being linked to skinchanging into birds because she lost her dire wolf. She is one of the pack, but set one apart like Jon Snow, whom she always referred to as her "bastard brother ". 

I hope this doesn't sound mocking, but it could just be one of these things we are meant to ponder on but never get an answer? We won't know until we all read "the end" in the pages of ADOS. :cheers:

Thanks! Not mocking at all. I am just always curious about other people's views on these things then I see if I get some new information (which I did thanks to you and Lost). 

And I doubt it is BR but my thoughts went to him, as they often do when birds are mentioned. 

 

28 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Here are the relevant parts of the chapter...

The Drowned Man, Feast 19

Sorry mate, but I think The George included the gull to enhance the scene and to set the mood. If the seagull screaming at Aeron is from anyone, it’s from The Drowned God. You see, the seagull was associated with the sea god of Irish mythology, Lir. And seagulls, like ravens, have been depicted has messengers between the real and mystical worlds. Notice here that the seagull screams the first time when Aeron asks, “Who shall be king over us?” This is reminiscent of Jeor’s crow and Jon, but what the hell does Rhaegar’s true son have to do with the Seastone Chair? After the first claimant is rejected, the seagull perches on Nagga’s Ribs. At this point, we know that Nagga is sacred to the Ironmen, and The Reader tells Asha,

The Kraken's Daughter, Feast 11

So, perhaps it is a foreshadowing of Euron’s purge.  

If we accept Daenerys as the female sea dragon and Euron as the Grey King and the Storm God, this sequence could foreshadow Euron slaying Daenerys. (or perhaps Tyrion’s grey scale will do the job?)

But getting back to the gull. . .  The fourth time the Drowned God’s messenger cries, it sounds forlorn, or hopeless. That’s when Victarion announces he will hear other claims before making his own. The last time we hear from the gull, it screams again and again as Euron makes his claim, and Aeron thinks that no godless man may sit the Seastone Chair.

Awesome information! I had not thought about the timing of the squawking in relation to who is making claim.

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I'm musing about Arya as a potential Last Hero candidate, and thought I should make a list of her friends who have died to see if we are approaching twelve. So far, I have Mycah, Jory Cassel (she wasn't really "with" him when he died, though), possibly / probably Syrio Forel, Yoren, and Lommy Greenhands. Possibly Beric Dondarrion.

Five of these all died of sword-inflcted wounds, I think, which seems to fit the legend. Beric died by kissing life into Lady Stoneheart - somehow that seems like a separate story from Arya's, and she wasn't present when he died, anyway.

There were other deaths in the group traveling to the Night's Watch (Dobber, for instance), but I'm not sure Arya was close enough to them to count them as companions.

I don't think I should count her "three deaths" from Jaqen H'ghar, since they weren't really allies or companions.

I don't think I should count dead family members, but I'm not sure. Arya was sort of "with" Ned when he died, but he seems like a mentor more than a friend or companion, if a father can be categorized.

I'm also thinking that the people like Dareon, the Night's Watch deserter, or people who receive the gift from the House of Black and White don't count.

So between four and six dead companions, so far. Who have I missed?

P.S. I fear for the future of Nymeria the direwolf . . .

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15 minutes ago, Seams said:

I'm musing about Arya as a potential Last Hero candidate, and thought I should make a list of her friends who have died to see if we are approaching twelve. So far, I have Mycah, Jory Cassel (she wasn't really "with" him when he died, though), possibly / probably Syrio Forel, Yoren, and Lommy Greenhands. Possibly Beric Dondarrion.

Five of these all died of sword-inflcted wounds, I think, which seems to fit the legend. Beric died by kissing life into Lady Stoneheart - somehow that seems like a separate story from Arya's, and she wasn't present when he died, anyway.

There were other deaths in the group traveling to the Night's Watch (Dobber, for instance), but I'm not sure Arya was close enough to them to count them as companions.

I don't think I should count her "three deaths" from Jaqen H'ghar, since they weren't really allies or companions.

I don't think I should count dead family members, but I'm not sure. Arya was sort of "with" Ned when he died, but he seems like a mentor more than a friend or companion, if a father can be categorized.

I'm also thinking that the people like Dareon, the Night's Watch deserter, or people who receive the gift from the House of Black and White don't count.

So between four and six dead companions, so far. Who have I missed?

P.S. I fear for the future of Nymeria the direwolf . . .

Have you seen this?

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9 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Read it. Awesome work as usual but I'm hung up on something. You said Coldhands is dead, do we know this? Maybe I'm just not remembering, I don't have the books atm.

From Bran II in dance:

Quote

 

"They'll kill him."

"No. They killed him long ago. 

 

Plus his hands are all black and ...cold.

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Right, I know he is dead as in he doesn't eat, breath, sleep etc...

In the post it says "Luwin is dead, Coldhands is dead, BR is dying."

I was thinking the post meant dead as in not existing anyone, like Luwin. I thought maybe I missed something. Sorry for the confusion. 

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57 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Right, I know he is dead as in he doesn't eat, breath, sleep etc...

In the post it says "Luwin is dead, Coldhands is dead, BR is dying."

I was thinking the post meant dead as in not existing anyone, like Luwin. I thought maybe I missed something. Sorry for the confusion. 

Nope. I meant he's dead. Catelyn's dead too. So's Waymar. 

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Gregor Clegane is an important character to the development of both Arya and Sansa. Assuming that Gregor Clegane is in fact the gravedigger and not dead, does anyone have any thoughts on if he will come in contact with either of them in the upcoming books? 

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24 minutes ago, Nissa said:

Gregor Clegane is an important character to the development of both Arya and Sansa. Assuming that Gregor Clegane is in fact the gravedigger and not dead, does anyone have any thoughts on if he will come in contact with either of them in the upcoming books? 

The Clegane you are looking for is Sandor.

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1 minute ago, Ser Leftwich said:

The Clegane you are looking for is Sandor.

Oh jeeze. That's the one. Now I'm embarassed

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9 minutes ago, Nissa said:

Oh jeeze. That's the one. Now I'm embarassed

Don't sweat it and welcome!  Great question, though not so small.  :) There's a lot of good discussion  here.  You may also want to start a thread on it if you can't find what you're looking for through a search. 

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8 minutes ago, DarkSister1001 said:

Don't sweat it and welcome!  Great question, though not so small.  :) There's a lot of good discussion  here.  You may also want to start a thread on it if you can't find what you're looking for through a search. 

Thanks I'm excited to look at the material. I'm a new member and I'm a little intimidated after having scoped out the forums. (for obvious reasons) However I'm the only one I know who has read the books and I've been dying to talk about them. I just finished DoD today.

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19 minutes ago, Nissa said:

Thanks I'm excited to look at the material. I'm a new member and I'm a little intimidated after having scoped out the forums. (for obvious reasons) However I'm the only one I know who has read the books and I've been dying to talk about them. I just finished DoD today.

You'vecome to the right place. Have you read the Tales of Dunk and Egg, The Princess and the Queen, The Rogue Prince, and The World of Ice and Fire? 

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1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

You'vecome to the right place. Have you read the Tales of Dunk and Egg, The Princess and the Queen, The Rogue Prince, and The World of Ice and Fire? 

I have to order everything but the World of Ice and Fire. I havn't started that one yet- it's next :) 

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2 hours ago, Nissa said:

I have to order everything but the World of Ice and Fire. I havn't started that one yet- it's next :) 

Just as a heads up, The Princess and the Queen and The Rogue Prince are both novellas that you will find in anthologies; Dangerous Women for the former, Rogues for the latter. Rogues at least has plenty of other good stories in. Dangerous Women wasn't so good, IMO. 

Same used to apply for Dunk and Egg, but now they are collected in A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms

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