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Small Questions v. 10105

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23 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I've just gone back on that. Gyldayn tells the story in a different order than Yandel. It is actually not clear when Quicksilver is given to Aenys but it is clear that he is given to him as a hatchling not in egg form, and neither does Aenys claim him all by himself like Maegor, Aemond and others later would have claimed riderless adult dragons.

There is however another tidbit I just recovered stating that Quicksilver was 'born that same year' on Dragonstone. In context this seems to refer to the year 7 AC, Aenys' year of birth, because prior to that we only get a lengthy description of young Aenys - watery eyes, spindly legs, unwilling to take milk from any wetnurses, and him crying for a fortnight when he was weaned (which might have actually been in the year of his birth considering that this was in the middle of the First Dornish War and Queen Rhaenys was most likely expected to accompany her royal siblings during dragon attacks on the Dornish castles).

The account on Rhaenys' death follows immediately thereafter, stating that Aenys was three when his mother died in Dorne - and he then refused to eat and began to crawl again as he had when he was one. Aegon supposedly despaired of the boy then. But that wasn't the only reason for people thinking Aegon should/would remarry - Visenya was childless and perhaps barren. A lot of lords and knights showed up at court bringing their maiden daughters with them but  Aegon's own thoughts on the matter are unknown.

All speculation died when Visenya 'suddenly announced that she was carrying the king's child' confidently proclaiming that it would be a boy. This is pretty interesting because Gyldayn's choice of words only tells us what Visenya said Maegor was, not that he actually was Aegon's seed.

But I digress. What we can say confidently on the basis of 'The Sons of the Dragon' reading is that Aenys might actually have been given the hatchling Quicksilver in his year of birth, or perhaps only as late as 8 AC, but that's it. My earlier speculation about infants not getting dragon hatchlings is clearly wrong.

There are more notes available? Because based on the ones that you posted 1,5/2 years ago, he appears to be older. So if there's more info available, I'd appreciate it if you could link to it :)

Is there anything about Gyldayn suggesting that Maegor might not have been Aegon's?

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Ok, OK, I am being stupid. But who is older, Benjen or Ned? Old brain....

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14 minutes ago, GrapefruitPerrier said:

Ok, OK, I am being stupid. But who is older, Benjen or Ned? Old brain....

Ned is. It goes Brandon, Eddard, Lyanna, and Benjen. 

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Does Sybelle Glover have her children Gawen and Erena with her at Deepwood Motte? Cause I thought that they were in the Iron Islands with Asha's mother.

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4 hours ago, The Wolves said:

Does Sybelle Glover have her children Gawen and Erena with her at Deepwood Motte? Cause I thought that they were in the Iron Islands with Asha's mother.

The children remain at Ten Towers on the Iron Islands.

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Do we know if Stannis was knighted or when exactly he became a lord? According to SSM:

Quote

To settle an old debate on EZBoard, any king can make a knight but any lord cannot. That lord must be a knight as well. So Baelor I could make knights but Eddard could not. George said the more important thing for kings is making lords. The problem is giving lands.

From ACOK's Prologue:

Quote
Maester Cressen remembered the day Davos had been knighted, after the siege of Storm End. Lord Stannis and a small garrison had held the castle for close to a year, against the great host of the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne. Even the sea was closed against them, watched day and night by Redwyne galleys flying the burgundy banners of the Arbor. Within Storm's End, the horses had long since been eaten, the dogs and cats were gone, and the garrison was down to roots and rats. Then came a night when the moon was new and black clouds hid the stars. Cloaked in that darkness, Davos the smuggler had dared the Redwyne cordon and the rocks of Shipbreaker Bay alike. His little ship had a black hull, black sails, black oars, and a hold crammed with onions and salt fish. Little enough, yet it had kept the garrison alive long enough for Eddard Stark to reach Storm's End and break the siege.
 
Lord Stannis had rewarded Davos with choice lands on Cape Wrath, a small keep, and a knight's honors . . . but he had also decreed that he lose a joint of each finger on his left hand, to pay for all his years of smuggling. Davos had submitted, on the condition that Stannis wield the knife himself; he would accept no punishment from lesser hands. The lord had used a butcher's cleaver, the better to cut clean and true. Afterward, Davos had chosen the name Seaworth for his new-made house, and he took for his banner a black ship on a pale grey field—with an onion on its sails. The onetime smuggler was fond of saying that Lord Stannis had done him a boon, by giving him four less fingernails to clean and trim.

 

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I never asked for Dragonstone. I never wanted it. I took it because Robert's enemies were here and he commanded me to root them out. I built his fleet and did his work, dutiful as a younger brother should be to an elder, as Renly should be to me. And what was Robert's thanks? He names me Lord of Dragonstone, and gives Storm's End and its incomes to Renly.

So, Stannis knights Davos at some point after Ned ends the siege of Storm's End, but Cressen's excerpt suggests to me it was sooner rather than later. Robert names Stannis Lord of Dragonstone after he takes that island. According to the SSM, lords cannot bestow knighthood without themselves being knights, so Stannis should also be a knight (regardless of when he became a lord), right?

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25 minutes ago, Nittanian said:

Do we know if Stannis was knighted or when exactly he became a lord? According to SSM:

...

So, Stannis knights Davos at some point after Ned ends the siege of Storm's End, but Cressen's excerpt suggests to me it was sooner rather than later. Robert names Stannis Lord of Dragonstone after he takes that island. According to the SSM, lords cannot bestow knighthood without themselves being knights, so Stannis should also be a knight (regardless of when he became a lord), right?

I'd reckon that's the case. Receiving knighthood is a significant part of southern nobility's (or any noble New Gods follower's) way of life, and it's a good rule of thumb to assume one is knighted unless specifically told otherwise (e.g. Merret Frey).

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Who has Jon killed with Longclaw?  I know he has killed some with arrows, etc. But I am specifically curious if we know how many people/who he has killed with Longclaw.

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3 minutes ago, Ser Leftwich said:

Who has Jon killed with Longclaw?  I know he has killed some with arrows, etc. But I am specifically curious if we know how many people/who he has killed with Longclaw.

At least a wildling in Ygritte's party, Qhorin, some wildlings at Queenscrown, and Janos Slynt.

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5 hours ago, Nittanian said:

Do we know if Stannis was knighted or when exactly he became a lord? According to SSM:

From ACOK's Prologue:

 

So, Stannis knights Davos at some point after Ned ends the siege of Storm's End, but Cressen's excerpt suggests to me it was sooner rather than later. Robert names Stannis Lord of Dragonstone after he takes that island. According to the SSM, lords cannot bestow knighthood without themselves being knights, so Stannis should also be a knight (regardless of when he became a lord), right?

Yes. The fact that he himself knighted Davos indicates he was also a knight. Him becoming the Lord of Dragonstone is a completely separate issue.

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I was rereading the HH thing, and I can't remember what house's the skulls and kisses shield is.

Could you help?

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On 04/05/2016 at 1:13 PM, Lord Varys said:

We have two examples as to when exactly it was thought proper for a young Targaryen to bond with a dragon. Prince Aenys received Quicksilver at the age of three, and Rhaenyra mounted Syrax at the age of seven. From the example of Aegon the Younger we know that you can hang out with your dragon for some time before you actually mount it and fly, so one assumes that young Rhaenyra had Syrax as a hatchling for a few years before the they flew together for the first time.

The Aenys example is especially interesting because he had reverted to a crawling stage in that year when he lost his mother, and was very sick. Yet nobody thought it dangerous to give a dragon hatchling to the boy.

That could indeed mean that the dragon eggs given to the royal children were supposed to hatch at one point in their childhood - however it might have been the rule that they hatched while they were still infants.

Thinking about the whole thing again:

The freshness of eggs might indeed have been an important factor and explain why there was eventually a problem to hatch the remaining eggs - there weren't exactly all that fresh. I guess the likelihood of an egg dropped with the amount of time that had passed since it was laid but Daenerys' success seems to prove that dragon eggs never truly die - the spell only reawakened life that lay dormant, it did not create dragons out of thin air (if that works, then Dany wouldn't have needed any dragon eggs at all).

This could also help explain why hatching the eggs during the reign of Aegon III became problematic. The eggs were no longer fresh, and while we know that the last dragon left a clutch of five eggs we don't know how many fresh eggs the Targaryens had left after the Dance and Regency. Morning is the last dragon we know by name and I guess it must have produced other viable eggs or else the hatching of the last dragons in the 150s wouldn't have happened. This would make it likely that another dragon hatched early on in the reign of Aegon III or Morning and Silverwing somehow had some private moments later in life.

I guess if there hatched another healthy dragon after Morning then Baela is the most likely to have claimed it. Aegon III was too afraid, and Prince Viserys may have returned too late. 

Nice post Lord Eunuch, as always. I just got one different opnion on what awekened the eggs back to life, you think it was the bloodmagic spell, right? See i think it could have been one catalyser but i think the main thing that makes the awekening of the eggs possible was the red comet, i think it was Osha and other people wich i don't remember that said it meant dragons and fire and blood, i think they were right, but it was the greatest motivator of the dragons awekening not just a sign as they tought.

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59 minutes ago, finger said:

I was rereading the HH thing, and I can't remember what house's the skulls and kisses shield is.

Could you help?

It's the sigil of House Lonmouth. The Knight of Skulls and Kisses was Richard Lonmouth, a former squire of Prince Rhaegar Targaryen.

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can someone kindly explain what is this salt line mentioned in the various quotes below?

 

He was always summoned for feasts, seated near the salt, close to Lord Stannis.

I'd find a place in some dark corner below the salt,

If she consigned the woman to some dark corner below the salt, his sister would risk the Red Viper's wrath.

Farther down, below the salt, were others that Reek knew by sight if not by name: sworn swords and serjeants, soldiers and gaolers and torturers.

Even the knights and lords above the salt enjoyed less space than usual.

Day or night, the benches below the salt were never less than half-full with men drinking, dicing, talking, or sleeping in their clothes in quiet corners

above the salt, the lords and knights were seen to be eating ham.

I cannot seat you on the dais, but you'll have a place of honor above the salt and underneath a wall sconce

"Why not? One day I mean to live in a castle. I hope to win a place above the salt before I'm done."

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31 minutes ago, Arry'sFleas said:

can someone kindly explain what is this salt line mentioned in the various quotes below?

 

He was always summoned for feasts, seated near the salt, close to Lord Stannis.

I'd find a place in some dark corner below the salt,

If she consigned the woman to some dark corner below the salt, his sister would risk the Red Viper's wrath.

Farther down, below the salt, were others that Reek knew by sight if not by name: sworn swords and serjeants, soldiers and gaolers and torturers.

Even the knights and lords above the salt enjoyed less space than usual.

Day or night, the benches below the salt were never less than half-full with men drinking, dicing, talking, or sleeping in their clothes in quiet corners

above the salt, the lords and knights were seen to be eating ham.

I cannot seat you on the dais, but you'll have a place of honor above the salt and underneath a wall sconce

"Why not? One day I mean to live in a castle. I hope to win a place above the salt before I'm done."

It's an expression of medieval times, i don't remember the explanation of why it is the "salt line" but it is a separation between tha highborn and healthiest people from the lowborn and poor in feasts and alike events. Obiously those who sit above the salt get the better things because they are the main guests and hosts, the rich ones, and they make this sepparation because they think they are better than common people and low houses.

Edited by Lord Asher Forrester

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Saltus is just a hill in Latin. So below the salt is one step down -- on top of it is a step up.

Imagine a low stage in a festive hall. The lord, some of his family and his honoured guests on top. Everybody else down in the rest of the festive hall.

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5 hours ago, Lord Asher Forrester said:

It's an expression of medieval times, i don't remember the explanation of why it is the "salt line" but it is a separation between tha highborn and healthiest people from the lowborn and poor in feasts and alike events. Obiously those who sit above the salt get the better things because they are the main guests and hosts, the rich ones, and they make this sepparation because they think they are better than common people and low houses.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/below-the-salt.html

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9 hours ago, Lord Asher Forrester said:

It's an expression of medieval times, i don't remember the explanation of why it is the "salt line" but it is a separation between tha highborn and healthiest people from the lowborn and poor in feasts and alike events. Obiously those who sit above the salt get the better things because they are the main guests and hosts, the rich ones, and they make this sepparation because they think they are better than common people and low houses.

thanks.

I had though at times that the 'salt' were a reference to the people below this class line. But i guess not.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Arry'sFleas said:

thanks.

I had though at times that the 'salt' were a reference to the people below this class line. But i guess not.

 

 

 

As Nittanian pointed out with the link, below the salt is indeed a reference to people below this class line, so that was right.

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