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Small Questions v. 10105

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10 hours ago, Rob Storm said:

What seat was planned for Trystane/Myrcella had all gone well for Martell/Lannister?  Or was Doran always going to remove Myrcella somehow if  Quentyn/Dany or Arianne/Aegon worked out and find something else for Trystane?  I guess if Quent is dead and Aegon is King in Kingslanding with Arianne then Trystane gets Sunspear but that is a lot to expect (even though it may be the case...for a minute or two).  

Casterly Rock will go to a child of Tommen, if he lives long enough to father some. Should he only have one child, Myrcella might inherit, but not necessarily.

No seat needs to have necessarily been planned for Trystane and Myrcella, though. Trystane was a third child, after all, and those don't always get their own castles.

Should Arianne choose to give up her claim to Dorne, which is by no means a certainty, Trystane would inherit, yes, now that Quentyn is dead.

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25 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Casterly Rock will go to a child of Tommen, if he lives long enough to father some. Should he only have one child, Myrcella might inherit, but not necessarily.

No seat needs to have necessarily been planned for Trystane and Myrcella, though. Trystane was a third child, after all, and those don't always get their own castles.

Should Arianne choose to give up her claim to Dorne, which is by no means a certainty, Trystane would inherit, yes, now that Quentyn is dead.

I do not believe Tommen, or his primogeniture heir has to surrender Casterly Rock. 

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Does "Lord of Winterfell" date to ancient times or from the Conquest?

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And that's Torrhen Stark, the King Who Knelt. He was the last King in the North and the first Lord of Winterfell, after he yielded to Aegon the Conqueror. (AGOT Bran VII)

 

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There upon the south bank of the Trident, he knelt, laid the ancient crown of the Kings of Winter at Aegon's feet, and swore to be his man. He rose as Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North, a king no more. (TWOIAF The Conquest)

 

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The first Lords of Winterfell had been men hard as the land they ruled. In the centuries before the Dragonlords came over the sea, they had sworn allegiance to no man, styling themselves the Kings in the North. (AGOT Eddard I)

 

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"Hodor," Hodor said, and he trotted forward smiling and set Bran in the high seat of the Starks, where the Lords of Winterfell had sat since the days when they called themselves the Kings in the North. (AGOT Bran IV)

 

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All Kings are Lords, but not all Lords are Kings.  Whether they used "Lord" as titles or not, they had lordship over Winterfell (and the entire North).  

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11 minutes ago, CJ McLannister said:

All Kings are Lords, but not all Lords are Kings.  Whether they used "Lord" as titles or not, they had lordship over Winterfell (and the entire North).  

Right, I'm thinking that "He was the last King in the North and the first Lord of Winterfell" would more appropriately be "first Warden of the North".

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Do we have any clues at all as to roughly when The Others began to amass and become active?

Whilst we meet them in the prologue to AGOT, given that Mance Rayder had already assembled a huge Wilding group with the aim of fleeing the Others, it must have been sometime before that, but how long? 5, 10, 15 years? Any ideas at all??

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24 minutes ago, Nittanian said:

Right, I'm thinking that "He was the last King in the North and the first Lord of Winterfell" would more appropriately be "first Warden of the North".

I think The George was taking a little poetic license with his own made up world to drive home the point that Torren had reduced the Starks from kings to vassals. 

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34 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I think The George was taking a little poetic license with his own made up world to drive home the point that Torren had reduced the Starks from kings to vassals. 

Yes.  He uses "Lord" as a catch-all designation, which causes a bit of ambiguity.  If it said something to the effect of "last King of the North, first Duke of Winterfell," it would show that it's a new title ranked below the king.  But in Westeros, everyone from Starks down to Lockes are just "Lords."

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5 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I do not believe Tommen, or his primogeniture heir has to surrender Casterly Rock. 

He doesn't have to, no. But it would be a viable option.

And it would be similar to Robert as well. Robert did not need to give Storm's End to Renly, nor Dragonstone to Stannis. He would have been within his rights to keep those seats himself, to give to his children years later. But, he choose to give the castles to his siblings, due to his generosity. Perhaps good-hearted Tommen would be willing to do something similar for his sister (though it might also depend on who Myrcella marries, as her husband would become the Lord of Casterly Rock, should she inherit.)

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1 hour ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

He doesn't have to, no. But it would be a viable option.

And it would be similar to Robert as well. Robert did not need to give Storm's End to Renly, nor Dragonstone to Stannis. He would have been within his rights to keep those seats himself, to give to his children years later. But, he choose to give the castles to his siblings, due to his generosity. Perhaps good-hearted Tommen would be willing to do something similar for his sister (though it might also depend on who Myrcella marries, as her husband would become the Lord of Casterly Rock, should she inherit.)

I agree that seems to be the practice. It keeps it simple for us readers too. Trying to figure out the feudal hierarchy and estates in medieval Europe is quite complex. 

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Ack! On Brandon the Shipwright's page the Wiki says that Brandon never succeeded in his crossing! Citing an SSM, but the cited SSM only says that no Brandon Stark ever went to Asshai. 

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Do we know approximately how old Daario is? The images of him make him look anywhere from early twenties to early forties, and I'm curious how people chose the specific age they did.

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4 hours ago, Tysha's New Man said:

Has it ever been confirmed why Varys wanted Ned Stark to live and serve in the nights watch?

With those specific words? No. But we do know that Varys wanted to delay the war, and Ned joining the NW, and telling Robb to return home, would have delayed the war that was coming.

5 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Ack! On Brandon the Shipwright's page the Wiki says that Brandon never succeeded in his crossing! Citing an SSM, but the cited SSM only says that no Brandon Stark ever went to Asshai. 

I think that statement is based on Bran VII, AGOT

That's a Brandon, the tall one with the dreamy face, he was Brandon the Shipwright, because he loved the sea. His tomb is empty. He tried to sail west across the Sunset Sea and was never seen again. 

Still, the SSM indeed only states that no Brandon Stark ever visited Asshai, so the statement should not be attributed to that SSM. I'll adjust the page.

1 hour ago, Cz-99 said:

Do we know approximately how old Daario is? The images of him make him look anywhere from early twenties to early forties, and I'm curious how people chose the specific age they did.

We don't know, unfortunately. So whatever age the artists chose for Daario in their art, that's simply the way they picture him. 

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4 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

With those specific words? No. But we do know that Varys wanted to delay the war, and Ned joining the NW, and telling Robb to return home, would have delayed the war that was coming.

I think that statement is based on Bran VII, AGOT

That's a Brandon, the tall one with the dreamy face, he was Brandon the Shipwright, because he loved the sea. His tomb is empty. He tried to sail west across the Sunset Sea and was never seen again. 

Still, the SSM indeed only states that no Brandon Stark ever visited Asshai, so the statement should not be attributed to that SSM. I'll adjust the page.

We don't know, unfortunately. So whatever age the artists chose for Daario in their art, that's simply the way they picture him. 

But Bran says only that Brandon never returned. That does not mean that he failed to cross the Sunset Sea. 

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Sorry if this has been asked and I missed it, but is Dany's deformed child the result if her entering Mirri's tent during the revival of Drogo? It seemed like an obvious cause and effect at first, until I read about all the other Targs who had deformed kids in TWOIAF...

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30 minutes ago, Fox of House McCloud said:

Sorry if this has been asked and I missed it, but is Dany's deformed child the result if her entering Mirri's tent during the revival of Drogo? It seemed like an obvious cause and effect at first, until I read about all the other Targs who had deformed kids in TWOIAF...

Welcome! 

It hasn't been confirmed but there are a lot of different ideas.  She thinks it's because she entered the tent and thinks the baby's life paid for Drogos.  I personally think it's was due to a genetic issue similar to what happens to the Ibbenese when they mate with a different race.  Like you said, lots of Targs have had this issue. 

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The World of Ice and Fire - Beyond the Free Cities: Ib

Their faces, characterized by sloping brows with heavy ridges, small sunken eyes, great square teeth, and massive jaws, seem brutish and ugly to Westerosi eyes, an impression heightened by their guttural, grunting tongue; but in truth the men of Ib are a cunning folk—skilled craftsmen, able hunters and trackers, and doughty warriors. They are the most hirsute people in the known world. Though their flesh is pale, with dark blue veins beneath the skin, their hair is dark and wiry. Ibbenese men are heavily bearded; wiry body hair covers their arms, legs, chests, and backs. Coarse dark hair is common amongst their women, even on the upper lip. (The persistent myth that Ibbenese females have six breasts has no truth to it, however.)

Though the men of Ib can father children upon the women of Westeros and other lands, the products of such unions are often malformed and inevitably sterile, in the manner of mules. Ibbenese females, when mated with men from other races, bring forth naught but stillbirths and monstrosities.

Such matings are uncommon; though ships from the Port of Ibben are a common sight in harbors up and down the narrow sea, and even as far away as the Summer Isles and Old Volantis, the sailors who crew them keep to their own kind even when ashore and display a deep suspicion of all strangers. On Ib itself, men of other lands and races are restricted by law and custom to the harbor precincts of the Port of Ibben and forbidden to venture beyond the city save in the company of an Ibbenese host. Such invitations are exceedingly rare.

 

Edited by DarkSister1001

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32 minutes ago, DarkSister1001 said:

Welcome! 

It hasn't been confirmed but there are a lot of different ideas.  She thinks it's because she entered the tent and thinks the baby's life paid for Drogos.  I personally think it's was due to a genetic issue similar to what happens to the Ibbenese when they mate with a different race.  Like you said, lots of Targs have had this issue. 

 

Hmm, interesting! I hadn't considered that the problem might stem from Dany and Drogo specifically, not just Dany being a Targaryen. 

On a semi-related note, would you happen to know if any of GRRM's other books (outside of Song/World) talk about the far reaches of Essos? It was all really fascinating in World, and I'd love to read anything else out there... although I suppose dome locations (such as Asshai) serve their purpose better the less we know of them. :P

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