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Small Questions v. 10105

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Lancel IV is said to have beheaded the ironborn king Harrald Halfdrowned and his heir with a single stroke of the Valyrian steel greatsword Brightroar at the Battle of Lann's Point; he later died in battle at Red Lake whilst attempting to invade the Reach. (The World of Ice and Fire, The Westerlands)

We know that Gyles III Gardener was King of the Reach at that time.

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Highgarden reached the apex of its power under King Gyles III Gardener, who led a glittering host of armored knights into the stormlands, smashed the armies of the aged Storm King, and conquered all the lands north of the rainwood save for Storm's End itself, which he besieged without result for two years. Gyles might well have completed his conquest had not the King of the Rock swept down upon the Reach in his absence, forcing him to lift his siege and hurry home to deal with the westermen. The broader war that followed involved three Dornish kings and two from the riverlands, and ended with Gyles III dead of a bloody flux and the borders between the realms restored to more or less where they had been before the bloodletting began. (The World of Ice and Fire, Andals in the Reach)

So at that time there were still Dornisch kings and kings in the riverlands, as well. Thus it was prior to the coming of the Rhoynar which took place around 700 BC.

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The sword Brightroar came into the possession of the Lannister kings in the century before the Doom (The World of Ice and Fire, The Westerlands)

The Doom took place in 114 AC, so apparently the Lannisters got the sword centuries after the death of Lancel IV.

Is this a mistake by GRRM? Because both Eustace and Yandel state that the sword was of Valyrian steel.

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Alright, so I have a small question regarding House Harlaw of Harlaw.

Here is the wiki page - http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Harlaw

We know that Rodrik The Reader is the current Lord, and his sons are dead, and his chosen heir is his cousin Harras the Knight. Notwithstanding succession, the only details we are given in the appendices are that Sigfryd Silverhair is his great uncle, and that Harras, Hotho and Boremund are his cousins. Is there any confirmation to the fact that is shown on the wiki page where it is explicitly shown that Harras and Hotho are first cousins? Is there anywhere in the text to suggest this?

It's a bit of an unimportant question, but I'm just curious.

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11 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

We know that Gyles III Gardener was King of the Reach at that time.

So at that time there were still Dornisch kings and kings in the riverlands, as well. Thus it was prior to the coming of the Rhoynar which took place around 700 BC.

The Doom took place in 114 AC, so apparently the Lannisters got the sword centuries after the death of Lancel IV.

Is this a mistake by GRRM? Because both Eustace and Yandel state that the sword was of Valyrian steel.

The World OIAF book states that 227 Valyrian swords have been bought over to Westeros. The early ones could be very ancient indeed.

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Just now, House Cambodia said:

The World OIAF book states that 227 Valyrian swords have been bought over to Westeros. The early ones could be very ancient indeed.

That's not what I meant. ;-) There might be the possibility that some Valyrian swords came to Westeros back then, but my point is about Brightroar having been bought by the Lannisters in the century before the Doom.

 

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12 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:
Quote

Lancel IV is said to have beheaded the ironborn king Harrald Halfdrowned and his heir with a single stroke of the Valyrian steel greatsword Brightroar at the Battle of Lann's Point; he later died in battle at Red Lake whilst attempting to invade the Reach. (The World of Ice and Fire, The Westerlands)

We know that Gyles III Gardener was King of the Reach at that time.

Quote

Highgarden reached the apex of its power under King Gyles III Gardener, who led a glittering host of armored knights into the stormlands, smashed the armies of the aged Storm King, and conquered all the lands north of the rainwood save for Storm's End itself, which he besieged without result for two years. Gyles might well have completed his conquest had not the King of the Rock swept down upon the Reach in his absence, forcing him to lift his siege and hurry home to deal with the westermen. The broader war that followed involved three Dornish kings and two from the riverlands, and ended with Gyles III dead of a bloody flux and the borders between the realms restored to more or less where they had been before the bloodletting began. (The World of Ice and Fire, Andals in the Reach)

 

So at that time there were still Dornisch kings and kings in the riverlands, as well. Thus it was prior to the coming of the Rhoynar which took place around 700 BC.

Quote

The sword Brightroar came into the possession of the Lannister kings in the century before the Doom (The World of Ice and Fire, The Westerlands)

The Doom took place in 114 AC, so apparently the Lannisters got the sword centuries after the death of Lancel IV.

Is this a mistake by GRRM? Because both Eustace and Yandel state that the sword was of Valyrian steel.

This would be a question for @Ran or @Linda, I suppose.

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Is the World of Ice and Fire book the full edition?

I know that there's also an app (which I don't have) but are there any differences between the two?

Thanks for your help :)

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18 minutes ago, Maester of Valyria said:

Is the World of Ice and Fire book the full edition?

I know that there's also an app (which I don't have) but are there any differences between the two?

Thanks for your help :)

The book and the app are two totally different things. The World of Ice and Fire is the book, which is an in-universe history as written by a maester. A World of Ice and Fire is the app, which is closer to a wiki or an encyclopedia. Some information has only been revealed to us through the app, but not much. The only difference between the different editions of the book is that newer versions are supposed to have some corrections. 

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1 minute ago, RumHam said:

The book and the app are two totally different things. The World of Ice and Fire is the book, which is an in-universe history as written by a maester. A World of Ice and Fire is the app, which is closer to a wiki or an encyclopedia. Some information has only been revealed to us through the app, but not much. The only difference between the different editions of the book is that newer versions are supposed to have some corrections. 

Ok, thanks very much. Feeling very foolish now...

Do you know anywhere where I can find all the information that's not given in the book? Apart from getting the app, obviously.

Thanks very much for your help!

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Just now, Maester of Valyria said:

Ok, thanks very much. Feeling very foolish now...

Do you know anywhere where I can find all the information that's not given in the book? Apart from getting the app, obviously.

Thanks very much for your help!

There's no reason to feel foolish, the very similar names have lead to a fair amount of confusion. I don't know of an exshastive list of information that only appears in the app. There is this old thread, but the app has been updated a few times since then. I'd imagine most of the information has made it's way onto the wiki by now, but you'd probably have to know what you were looking for. 

It's also probably worth noting that there's been debate about how much we should trust these app only facts. Martin didn't write the text of the app himself, but the people who did met with him to ask him questions. So there's always the possibility that there was some confusion. Also nothing is considered canon until it is published in the books. For example the app once stated that Bloodraven was imprisoned by Maekar. Once the worldbook came out and told the real story it was updated. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Maester of Valyria said:

Ok, thanks very much. Feeling very foolish now...

Do you know anywhere where I can find all the information that's not given in the book? Apart from getting the app, obviously.

Thanks very much for your help!

It isn't all listed in one location, (though the thread RumHam mentions had made a start at gathering new info, and clarifying info). You can follow this link from the wiki, listing every wiki page on which the app is linked. Do keep in mind that this list also includes all pages featuring a template in which the app is also mentioned. On the specific pages, you can see what piece of info has the app as a reference.

Most of the "new info" mentioned by the app are locations of birth, but there are other small pieces too, to be found for example in the entries of Daenerys Targaryen, Arianne Martell, and Gerold Dayne. 

Some info that was once "app-only" info has by now been published in books, as well (for example the name of Jaehaerys I's mother).

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3 minutes ago, RumHam said:

There's no reason to feel foolish, the very similar names have lead to a fair amount of confusion. I don't know of an exshastive list of information that only appears in the app. There is this old thread, but the app has been updated a few times since then. I'd imagine most of the information has made it's way onto the wiki by now, but you'd probably have to know what you were looking for. 

It's also probably worth noting that there's been debate about how much we should trust these app only facts. Martin didn't write the text of the app himself, but the people who did met with him to ask him questions. So there's always the possibility that there was some confusion. Also nothing is considered canon until it is published in the books. For example the app once stated that Bloodraven was imprisoned by Maekar. Once the worldbook came out and told the real story it was updated. 

 

Ok, well thanks very much anyway!

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Is Lord Ronald Crakehall the Lord Crakehall mentioned in this quote? Or is it possible that Lord Sumner was present here as well?

Ser Elys Westerling and Lord Crakehall and others of his father’s knights burst into the hall in time to see the last of it, so there was no way for Jaime to vanish and let some braggart steal the praise or blame. It would be blame, he knew at once when he saw the way they looked at him... though perhaps that was fear. Lannister or no, he was one of Aerys’s seven.
“The castle is ours, ser, and the city,” Roland Crakehall told him, which was half true. Targaryen loyalists were still dying on the serpentine steps and in the armory, Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch were scaling the walls of Maegor’s Holdfast, and Ned Stark was leading his northmen through the King’s Gate even then, but Crakehall could not have known that. He had
not seemed surprised to find Aerys slain; Jaime had been Lord Tywin’s son long before he had been named to the Kingsguard.
“Tell them the Mad King is dead,” he commanded. “Spare all those who yield and hold them captive,”
“Shall I proclaim a new king as well?” Crakehall asked, and Jaime read the question plain: Shall it be your father, or Robert Baratheon, or do you mean to try to make a new dragonking?

 

7 hours ago, El-Daddy said:

Alright, so I have a small question regarding House Harlaw of Harlaw.

Here is the wiki page - http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Harlaw

We know that Rodrik The Reader is the current Lord, and his sons are dead, and his chosen heir is his cousin Harras the Knight. Notwithstanding succession, the only details we are given in the appendices are that Sigfryd Silverhair is his great uncle, and that Harras, Hotho and Boremund are his cousins. Is there any confirmation to the fact that is shown on the wiki page where it is explicitly shown that Harras and Hotho are first cousins? Is there anywhere in the text to suggest this?

It's a bit of an unimportant question, but I'm just curious.

I can't find anything.

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12 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Is Lord Ronald Crakehall the Lord Crakehall mentioned in this quote? Or is it possible that Lord Sumner was present here as well?

Ser Elys Westerling and Lord Crakehall and others of his father’s knights burst into the hall in time to see the last of it, so there was no way for Jaime to vanish and let some braggart steal the praise or blame. It would be blame, he knew at once when he saw the way they looked at him... though perhaps that was fear. Lannister or no, he was one of Aerys’s seven.
“The castle is ours, ser, and the city,” Roland Crakehall told him, which was half true. Targaryen loyalists were still dying on the serpentine steps and in the armory, Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch were scaling the walls of Maegor’s Holdfast, and Ned Stark was leading his northmen through the King’s Gate even then, but Crakehall could not have known that. He had
not seemed surprised to find Aerys slain; Jaime had been Lord Tywin’s son long before he had been named to the Kingsguard.
“Tell them the Mad King is dead,” he commanded. “Spare all those who yield and hold them captive,”
“Shall I proclaim a new king as well?” Crakehall asked, and Jaime read the question plain: Shall it be your father, or Robert Baratheon, or do you mean to try to make a new dragonking?

 

I can't find anything.

I would be surprised if Sumner and Roland are both in this scene, since Roland is named and GRRM then refers to a character simply as "Crakehall". Jaime and Merrett both think of "old Sumner", so he presumably died in-between the Kingswood Brotherhood and Robert's Rebellion.

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Just now, Nittanian said:

I would be surprised if Sumner and Roland are both in this scene, since Roland is named and GRRM then refers to a character simply as "Crakehall". Jaime and Merrett both think of "old Sumner", so he presumably died in-between the Kingswood Brotherhood and Robert's Rebellion.

That's all I needed to know! :) 

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Is grey eyes commonly associated with the First Men? 

The Starks usually have grey eyes and they're First Men. I remember Wayman Royce has grey eyes. Also I think Melissa Blackwood in the world book is drawn with grey eyes. 

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31 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

Is grey eyes commonly associated with the First Men? 

The Starks usually have grey eyes and they're First Men. I remember Wayman Royce has grey eyes. Also I think Melissa Blackwood in the world book is drawn with grey eyes. 

You can use the this page of the weirwood-net website to sort characters by their eye-color.

The art from The World of Ice and Fire is not canon, however.

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A question about tourneys and jousting.

If a knight is defeated by his opponent does that mean he is knocked off the list?

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Not a series question I know, but is there any way to change the typeface of the text when making a topic? I'm trying to copy-paste something from Word but I can't get the text to change to forum-default. Please help!

Failing that, what typeface should I change the Word document to so that it pastes neatly into the forum?

 

I'm also putting this in a thread in the Help forum, but I'd really appreciate it if someone could help me out here!

Thanks!

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6 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

A question about tourneys and jousting.

If a knight is defeated by his opponent does that mean he is knocked off the list?

In all of the tourneys we've seen so far, I believe that's the case. 

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