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Small Questions v. 10105

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7 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

This is the second time in the few years that i have been a member of the site that I find a thread appropriate. How do I contact the moderators?

Click the report post link above the content of the post. It's right next to where it says when the post was made. 

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2 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Click the report post link above the content of the post. It's right next to where it says when the post was made. 

Thanks. My fingers were typing faster than my mind was working. I meant to say inappropriate.:blush:

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23 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

This is the second time in the few years that i have been a member of the site that I find a thread appropriate. How do I contact the moderators?

While of course you have the right to report this topic, I confess that I don't see the reason.

Whether Bran would be able to father children or not is a legitimate question with far-reaching consequences for the future books. As such it warrants tasteful and mature discussion, which seems to be the overwhelming type of contribution to this thread.

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24 minutes ago, Maester of Valyria said:

While of course you have the right to report this topic, I confess that I don't see the reason.

The idea about reporting a topic that reaches twenty pages in length is to reduce the burden to someone new to the topic on reading up.  I am not so certain that it is really relevant to the "Small Questions" thread, but it is best to let the moderators know by submitting a report. ;)

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Just now, MtnLion said:

The idea about reporting a topic that reaches twenty pages in length is to reduce the burden to someone new to the topic on reading up.  I am not so certain that it is really relevant to the "Small Questions" thread, but it is best to let the moderators know by submitting a report. ;)

I know this, but the original used (or meant to use) the phrase 'I find a thread inappropriate', which points to an issue other than length.

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46 minutes ago, MtnLion said:

The idea about reporting a topic that reaches twenty pages in length is to reduce the burden to someone new to the topic on reading up.  I am not so certain that it is really relevant to the "Small Questions" thread, but it is best to let the moderators know by submitting a report. ;)

Woah!  Are we up to 41 pages already? 

44 minutes ago, Maester of Valyria said:

I know this, but the original used (or meant to use) the phrase 'I find a thread inappropriate', which points to an issue other than length.

Perhaps they meant another thread? 

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15 minutes ago, Isobel Harper said:

Perhaps they meant another thread? 

That's what I assumed. I can't imagine someone who was offended by the recent discussion of Bran's junk making it through the series without burning their books in disgust. 

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13 hours ago, Isobel Harper said:

Perhaps they meant another thread? 

 

12 hours ago, RumHam said:

That's what I assumed. I can't imagine someone who was offended by the recent discussion of Bran's junk making it through the series without burning their books in disgust. 

Ah, that would make more sense! Although some people are funny like that...

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19 hours ago, Maester of Valyria said:

While of course you have the right to report this topic, I confess that I don't see the reason.

Whether Bran would be able to father children or not is a legitimate question with far-reaching consequences for the future books. As such it warrants tasteful and mature discussion, which seems to be the overwhelming type of contribution to this thread.

ummmmm, you may want to check the warranty on your crystal ball. I din't know there was a topic about Bran's junk.:blink:

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Just now, Clegane'sPup said:

ummmmm, you may want to check the warranty on your crystal ball. I din't know there was a topic about Bran's junk.:blink:

The above posters have pointed out to me that you were probably inquiring with regards to a different topic. If this is indeed the case then I apologise for my confusion.

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1 hour ago, Maester of Valyria said:

The above posters have pointed out to me that you were probably inquiring with regards to a different topic. If this is indeed the case then I apologise for my confusion.

Not a problem. I also come to unsupported conclusions.

Last month I made the final payment on the lawn tractor. Yesterday I went out to mow a couple acres of grass. The key wouldn’t fit into the ignition Have any idea what my first thoughts were? Those thoughts can’t be repeated here, that is for sure.

Come to find out some multi-legged or multi-winged creature decided to build in the ignition key hole. So I doused the ignition key hole with water and picked the dirt (actually died mud) out with a toothpick.  Works fine now. :cheers:

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17 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Not a problem. I also come to unsupported conclusions.

Last month I made the final payment on the lawn tractor. Yesterday I went out to mow a couple acres of grass. The key wouldn’t fit into the ignition Have any idea what my first thoughts were? Those thoughts can’t be repeated here, that is for sure.

Come to find out some multi-legged or multi-winged creature decided to build in the ignition key hole. So I doused the ignition key hole with water and picked the dirt (actually died mud) out with a toothpick.  Works fine now. :cheers:

Sounds annoying. Glad that's all cleared up now: I didn't mean anything offensive.

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Would the Karstarks be considered a princely house prior to the Conquest? House Stark of Karl's Hold was founded by one of the son's of a King of Winter, so he must have been a prince, and logically his descendants must have been as well. I don't believe there are any references to it in the text, and it seems bizarre to me that a house so distantly related to the main branch would retain the title of "prince" (the ASOIAF wiki tells me says the house was founded "a thousand years ago"). At the same time, it seems odd to me that they'd officially change their name to "Karstark" if they derived their princely status from being related to the main branch of House Stark; and it's not like at one point they would have gone "I'm X+1 generations away from Karlon Stark, so I guess I can't inherit the title of 'prince' from my father".

Were the Karstarks princes and princesses while the Starks were kings, right up until Aegon's conquest, or did they no longer hold those titles by then?

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46 minutes ago, Neptunium said:

Would the Karstarks be considered a princely house prior to the Conquest? House Stark of Karl's Hold was founded by one of the son's of a King of Winter, so he must have been a prince, and logically his descendants must have been as well.

That doesn't follow at all.  When "prince" is used to mean son of a king, it is generally not passed down to sons of princes that are not in line for the throne.    

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1 hour ago, CJ McLannister said:

That doesn't follow at all.  When "prince" is used to mean son of a king, it is generally not passed down to sons of princes that are not in line for the throne.    

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that any descendants of a king directly through the male line could be called were princes. Is this not the case?

 

(thinking out loud):

The Aegon who was Rhaegar's son was a prince and grandson of the king, but he was in line for the throne, so that agrees with what you said. I could have sworn Egg was also a prince in the Hedge Knight (when he was grandson of the king and, at the time, only in line if many of his uncles and cousins died (which they did)). I think I'm due for a reread haha

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Look at actual royal bloodlines.  I'm not sure if there are "rules," but from what I can tell, if your direct ancestor is on the throne (ie. father, grandmother, great-grandfather) you get the princely title.  Once you get a few generations removed and the crown passes to an uncle or aunt the title seems to disappear.

In Westeros, we don't have any kind of sample size to look at, but beyond "Prince of Dragonstone" the prince title doesn't seem to mean anything.  Again, since all the nobles are simply "lord" we have no real sense of how titles were/are used.  It would be weird for some family to use "Prince of Karhold" to describe their own lordship while being pretty far removed from the succession of the "Kings of Winter".

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20 hours ago, Neptunium said:

I could have sworn Egg was also a prince in the Hedge Knight (when he was grandson of the king and, at the time, only in line if many of his uncles and cousins died (which they did)). I think I'm due for a reread haha

You're not wrong, Egg and his brothers are called princes several times in the Dunk & Egg books. Personally I have no idea what the rules are, or if they're just being called that by courtesy.

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3 minutes ago, RumHam said:

You're not wrong, Egg and his brothers are called princes several times in the Dunk & Egg books. Personally I have no idea what the rules are, or if they're just being called that by courtesy.

In Martins world you basically have the Royals as being the King and Queen, and then the rest are Princes and Princesses, mostly in the form of courtesy titles but not always. Just as the Lords are lords and we don't get Dukes and Counts and all that. The Targs were closer to Romans, Emperor = King, then you essentially have a Crown Prince qualification Prince of Dragonstone, then you have Courtesy titles where the royals are refereed to as Princes and Princesses. Dorne, Summerhal and Dragonstone act as Principalities, so essentially they are Sovereignty Princes, while Dragonstone is also historically the seat of the Crown Prince. The Steps sort of acted in this manner for a bit as well. However the Dornish Prince is actually closer to a Duke or Dutchess like the other great Lords. And again the Royals are courtesy titles as well. 

You can basically see the Hierarchy, In the North it would be Duke Stark, Manderly a Marquess, Bolton a Count, etc...

But a lot of the Royal princess and princesses are what is called courtesy titles.    

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1 hour ago, RumHam said:

You're not wrong, Egg and his brothers are called princes several times in the Dunk & Egg books. Personally I have no idea what the rules are, or if they're just being called that by courtesy.

Indeed, and they are the grandsons of a King, with a Prince for a father.

Meanwhile, Prince Daemon's daughters, Baela and Rhaena, while described as "princesses", have the title "Lady" in TWOIAF. Was that discrepancy ever addressed anywhere? I can't recall. But if calling them "princesses" was a mistake, that might give us a hint about when the title "Prince" and "Princess" is granted.. Baela and Rhaena were not the grandchildren of a king, after all, since Baelon never reigned, but the great-grandchildren of a King.

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5 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Indeed, and they are the grandsons of a King, with a Prince for a father.

Meanwhile, Prince Daemon's daughters, Baela and Rhaena, while described as "princesses", have the title "Lady" in TWOIAF. Was that discrepancy ever addressed anywhere? I can't recall. But if calling them "princesses" was a mistake, that might give us a hint about when the title "Prince" and "Princess" is granted.. Baela and Rhaena were not the grandchildren of a king, after all, since Baelon never reigned, but the great-grandchildren of a King.

Well the twins who's true names are Moon and Morning, both got married, to a Hightower and a Velaryon, so both Princess and Lady. Their brothers were Kings.

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