Small Questions v. 10105

[Philokles]

4 hours ago, Oakhearts head said:

Was Qhorin Halfhand high born?

Rereading some chapters from A Clash of Kings, Qhorin was surprisingly eloquent for someone who I assumed didn't come from a noble family.

Possibly. Nothing says he is not high born as far as I am aware, but Jon does not know about his life before joining the Watch, which would suggest not:

Quote

Qhorin came and stood over him as the first flame rose up flickering from the shavings of bark and dead dry pine needles. "As shy as a maid on her wedding night," the big ranger said in a soft voice, "and near as fair. Sometimes a man forgets how pretty a fire can be."

He was not a man you'd expect to speak of maids and wedding nights. So far as Jon knew, Qhorin had spent his whole life in the Watch. Did he ever love a maid or have a wedding? He could not ask. (ACOK Jon VIII)

 

He does have a thing about being called a lord though, picking Jon up on it a few times, and knew both Eddard and Rickard if that means anything. 

Quote

"I am no lord, Jon Snow." Qhorin slid the stone smoothly along the steel with his two-fingered hand. (ACOK Jon VIII)

 

Quote

"You are Jon Snow. You have your father's look."

"Did you know him, my lord?"

"I am no lordling. Only a brother of the Night's Watch. I knew Lord Eddard, yes. And his father before him." (ACOK Jon V)

 

[sweetsunray]

On 4-9-2016 at 10:39 AM, JRRStark said:

Did Ned give a letter to Varys and does anyone think it will ever be delivered?

I think the letter was for Tobho Mott with regards Gendry. The only promise he broke were the ones he had been unable to keep to Robert, since he was a captive (not eating boar at his funeral, not being able to stop the assassination of Dany, and not keeping his "children" safe). With the "taking the black" deal I think it was Ned who urged for Gendry to come with him to the Wall, or have him delivered at least at WF.

I don't think it was Varys' own personal idea at all, since he did nothing to keep Barra nor Barra's mother safe. When he says to Tyrion he didn't expect Cersei to go that far I think Varys was lying and plain talking BS.

[Little Scribe of Naath]

In TWOW,

Spoiler

we are told that Arianne once held Rhaenys, when she was too small to remember. 

Do we know when this could have happened? Is there any information/hint of Elia visiting Dorne after Rhaenys' birth, or of Doran bringing Arianne to court?

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

In TWOW, we are told that

Spoiler

Arianne once held Rhaenys, when she was too small to remember. 

Do we know when this could have happened? Is there any information/hint of Elia visiting Dorne after Rhaenys' birth, or of Doran bringing Arianne to court?

Umm...You're supposed to use spoiler tags for Winds stuff. 

[Little Scribe of Naath]

3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Umm...You're supposed to use spoiler tags for Winds stuff. 

Sorry! Thanks for reminding me

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

5 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

In TWOW,

  Reveal hidden contents

we are told that Arianne once held Rhaenys, when she was too small to remember. 

Do we know when this could have happened? Is there any information/hint of Elia visiting Dorne after Rhaenys' birth, or of Doran bringing Arianne to court?

Spoiler

It is never stated when or when this occurred. Perhaps Doran visited Dragonstone following Rhaenys' birth, when Elia was on bedrest. Perhaps Elia brought Rhaenys with her to Harrenhal. Since Oberyn was there, Doran might have been there as well. If he took Arianne with him, the event could have occurred there. Also possible, I suppose, but far les likely that the other two alternatives IMO, is that Elia visited Dorne after Rhaenys had been born.

 

[Oakhearts head]

In "The Reaper" chapter in AFFC, we find out during the feast at Oakenshield that Lord Humfrey Hewett had forced his bastard daughter Falia Flowers into being a servant by his wife and true-born daughters. I was wondering if this is a common occurrence in Westeros? Literally every other example of acknowledged bastards in Westeros shows they generally have the exact same rights as true born children (minus inheritance, of course). Was Lord Hewett's treatment of Falia potentially a punishable offense in the seven kingdoms?

[Little Scribe of Naath]

7 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

  Hide contents

It is never stated when or when this occurred. Perhaps Doran visited Dragonstone following Rhaenys' birth, when Elia was on bedrest. Perhaps Elia brought Rhaenys with her to Harrenhal. Since Oberyn was there, Doran might have been there as well. If he took Arianne with him, the event could have occurred there. Also possible, I suppose, but far les likely that the other two alternatives IMO, is that Elia visited Dorne after Rhaenys had been born.

 

Spoiler

Thanks, R_T!

HH seems like the best suggestion, because the timeline, the winter and Elia's health issues rule out the possibility of her having visited Dorne during 281/282 AC. Doran visiting DS would be interesting too, if we learn of something like that in TWOW.

 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

7 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

  Hide contents

Thanks, R_T!

HH seems like the best suggestion, because the timeline, the winter and Elia's health issues rule out the possibility of her having visited Dorne during 281/282 AC. Doran visiting DS would be interesting too, if we learn of something like that in TWOW.

 

Spoiler

Don't forget to calculate in Elia spending time at KL, presumably at some point after Rhaenys's birth (and her recovery from that birth), as Elia encountered the Kingswood Brotherhood resulting in Gerold Hightower's injuries. The Kingswood Brotherhood campaign would have occured in 281 AC, as it needed to end prior to the tourney at Harrenhal, considering Jaime was knighted at the campaign's conclusion by Arthur Dayne, and was afterwards sworn into the KG at Harrenhal. Considering that Gerold does not seem to have taken part at all in the campaign, his injuries seem to have not yet been healed by the time the campaign ended, placing the attack not too far (read: a year or more) from its conclusion. That would rule out Elia visiting KL prior to giving birth to Rhaenys and being attacked in 280 AC, in my opinion.

So, the way I see it, two likely possibilities remain: either Doran visited Dragonstone with his daughter, or he went to Harrenhal with Oberyn and brought Arianne along, and saw Elia there, who had brought Rhaenys.

 

 

[Little Scribe of Naath]

20 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

  Hide contents

 

Don't forget to calculate in Elia spending time at KL, presumably at some point after Rhaenys's birth (and her recovery from that birth), as Elia encountered the Kingswood Brotherhood resulting in Gerold Hightower's injuries. The Kingswood Brotherhood campaign would have occured in 281 AC, as it needed to end prior to the tourney at Harrenhal, considering Jaime was knighted at the campaign's conclusion by Arthur Dayne, and was afterwards sworn into the KG at Harrenhal. Considering that Gerold does not seem to have taken part at all in the campaign, his injuries seem to have not yet been healed by the time the campaign ended, placing the attack not too far (read: a year or more) from its conclusion. That would rule out Elia visiting KL prior to giving birth to Rhaenys and being attacked in 280 AC, in my opinion.

So, the way I see it, two likely possibilities remain: either Doran visited Dragonstone with his daughter, or he went to Harrenhal with Oberyn and brought Arianne along, and saw Elia there, who had brought Rhaenys.

 

 

Oh yes. For some reason, I was under the impression the whole Kingswood Brotherhood campaign occurred in 280 AC, but Jaime says he was 15 when knighted, so that's definitely 281. Giving time for that, it would put the tourney of HH in around June/July of 281 AC, probably, as Elia would have been pregnant with Aegon but doesn't seem to have been showing at the tourney (otherwise someone would have commented on it.)

[Jon Weirgaryen]

On 2.9.2016 at 3:38 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Is there something beside this paragraph to suggest Ice replaced another ancestral blade, and what type of sword it was? 

Catelyn I, Game 2

Yes:

a ) A literary device: The closeness of the prologue which describes the Others' blades as looking much alike to ice crystal to chapter 2, there is only one chapter in between, so the reader should at least subconsciously remember that bit.

Quote

The Other slid forward on silent feet. In its hand was a longsword like none that Will had ever seen. No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade. It was alive with moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on. There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor.

b ) A rather blunt hint: the name "ice"

That alone would not do much, but it backs the idea begotten by a) more than just a bit.

Without the conscious mind getting at it, the book tells us, there once may have been a sword, much like those the Others are using in the prologue.

[Lommy's Shade]

19 hours ago, Oakhearts head said:

In "The Reaper" chapter in AFFC, we find out during the feast at Oakenshield that Lord Humfrey Hewett had forced his bastard daughter Falia Flowers into being a servant by his wife and true-born daughters. I was wondering if this is a common occurrence in Westeros? Literally every other example of acknowledged bastards in Westeros shows they generally have the exact same rights as true born children (minus inheritance, of course). Was Lord Hewett's treatment of Falia potentially a punishable offense in the seven kingdoms?

It's not clear that Falia is really an "acknowledged" bastard. It's more likely that her parentage is an open secret, like for example Mya Stone. Mya is baseborn and although she's apparently treated well, she's still just part of Nestor Royce's household at the Gates of the Moon with no special privileges or rights. If Hewitt impregnated a commoner in his household, it's not surprising that the child would grow up and become a servant, regardless of who her father may be.

And of course, in real life, there were many plantation slaves who were actually fathered by their masters yet still kept in servitude.

[Ckram]

On 09/09/2016 at 6:58 AM, Vaedys Targaryen said:

Here's a question:

Do the priests of the Drowned God take any vows, like never marrying, never having children, never owning any lands, castles or titles, etc.? Because it doesn't appear to me that they take any vows nor does the Drowned God seem to be the kind of god to demand that kind of thing of his priests, but most of the priests we've encountered just don't have any of those things (if there is one who does have, let's say, a wife and children, please point him out).

Also, are there also any priestesses of the Drowned God? We haven't seen any, so are they not allowed?

In fact, there is no mention in the books of such vows.

However, since Drowned God's religion is not an organized one ("has no temples, no holy books, no idols carved in his likeness"), but only a bunch of illiterate, crazy priests, which "lords and peasants are obliged to give [...] food and shelter in the name of the Drowned God" (feared beggars), the lack of votes doesn't surprise me.

The power of these priests seems to derivate directly from their harsh lifestyle and preaching. And since they are so few, i believe that there is little room for hypocritical devotion, which reinforces that they have no use for vows.

Regarding the absence of priestesses, once there's no known rule against it, the best answer i can find is that the Ironborn have not yet reached this level of civilization.

[Anton Martell]

22 hours ago, Oakhearts head said:

In "The Reaper" chapter in AFFC, we find out during the feast at Oakenshield that Lord Humfrey Hewett had forced his bastard daughter Falia Flowers into being a servant by his wife and true-born daughters. I was wondering if this is a common occurrence in Westeros? Literally every other example of acknowledged bastards in Westeros shows they generally have the exact same rights as true born children (minus inheritance, of course). Was Lord Hewett's treatment of Falia potentially a punishable offense in the seven kingdoms?

Ned and Roose Bolton are the exception. Most bastards are cast away. You don't treat them like children, or it might complicate legacies (which is why Catelyn hated Jon: he was not hidden like most bastards but actually in her face, plus a threat to her children's claim.

 

I have a question about the NW: how the hell do Black brother dig for treasure (go to the brothel) in Mole Town? How do they pay for it? Do the brothers get paid? Do they steal? If they get paid, what is the money for since they are not supposed to go into the world themselves, and no one mentions it also and if they steal, why are they not punished (the LC let them fuck a bit, that is called leniancy and tolerance, but you can't accept stealing). So how do they pay for the whores. Because I'm not sure brothel take services as payment. I'm very curious about it.

 

Also, we know the NW has money to buy goods, but where does it come from. Lords allowance? King's allowance? I'm guessing it's that and maybe the sell of some products from the Gift, but I was wondering about it

[JRRStark]

On ‎10‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 0:25 AM, sweetsunray said:

I think the letter was for Tobho Mott with regards Gendry. The only promise he broke were the ones he had been unable to keep to Robert, since he was a captive (not eating boar at his funeral, not being able to stop the assassination of Dany, and not keeping his "children" safe). With the "taking the black" deal I think it was Ned who urged for Gendry to come with him to the Wall, or have him delivered at least at WF.

I don't think it was Varys' own personal idea at all, since he did nothing to keep Barra nor Barra's mother safe. When he says to Tyrion he didn't expect Cersei to go that far I think Varys was lying and plain talking BS.

Ah! ok thanks. I was thinking it was to do with Jon and his regrets about not getting around to telling him about his mother.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

19 minutes ago, JRRStark said:

Ah! ok thanks. I was thinking it was to do with Jon and his regrets about not getting around to telling him about his mother.

I'd sooner think that whatever letter Ned had wanted to send, he did not do it after Varys stated he was going to read the letter, and would perhaps not even deliver it.

On 10-9-2016 at 1:25 AM, sweetsunray said:

I think the letter was for Tobho Mott with regards Gendry. The only promise he broke were the ones he had been unable to keep to Robert, since he was a captive (not eating boar at his funeral, not being able to stop the assassination of Dany, and not keeping his "children" safe). With the "taking the black" deal I think it was Ned who urged for Gendry to come with him to the Wall, or have him delivered at least at WF.

I don't think it was Varys' own personal idea at all, since he did nothing to keep Barra nor Barra's mother safe. When he says to Tyrion he didn't expect Cersei to go that far I think Varys was lying and plain talking BS.

If Ned was behind Gendry going to the Wall, why would he neglect to arrange for protection for Barra? I can see Varys being convicted that Barra was not in danger on account of her being a girl, but wouldn't Ned be inclined to help all of Robert's children who he knew to be in KL?

[JRRStark]

5 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

I'd sooner think that whatever letter Ned had wanted to send, he did not do it after Varys stated he was going to read the letter, and would perhaps not even deliver it.

If Ned was behind Gendry going to the Wall, why would he neglect to arrange for protection for Barra? I can see Varys being convicted that Barra was not in danger on account of her being a girl, but wouldn't Ned be inclined to help all of Robert's children who he knew to be in KL?

Ok so He never wrote the letter in the end. I knew Varys would read it but didn't know he told Ned he would do so.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

12 minutes ago, JRRStark said:

Ok so He never wrote the letter in the end. I knew Varys would read it but didn't know he told Ned he would do so.

A Game of Thrones, chapter 58 (the last Eddard chapter):

“A eunuch has no honor, and a spider does not enjoy the luxury of scruples, my lord.”

“Would you at least consent to carry a message out for me?”

“That  would depend on  the  message.  I  will  gladly provide  you with  paper  and  ink,  if  you  like. And  when  you  have written  what  you  will,  I  will  take  the letter  and  read  it,  and  deliver  it  or  not, as best serves my own ends.” 

[sweetsunray]

19 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

If Ned was behind Gendry going to the Wall, why would he neglect to arrange for protection for Barra? I can see Varys being convicted that Barra was not in danger on account of her being a girl, but wouldn't Ned be inclined to help all of Robert's children who he knew to be in KL?

Well, Ned was in a dungeon for one. Secondly I think it far more likely for Ned to suspect baby Barra and her whore mother to be safe than a bastard son of about 14. I don't believe Varys to be convinced that Barra was safe. He's the on after all who knows Cersei's plotting and scheming better than Ned does. Nor do I even believe it was in any interest for Varys to help the bastards. It wasn't Varys after all who put Ned on a trail of bastards; that was Littlefinger. But it was Varys who pointed out how Cersei wanted to kill the king. Thirdly Robert was especially talking about taking care of his son on his deathbed, meaning Joffrey, but the eldest son is Gendry. And obviously the plan was for that boy to leave King's Landing together with Ned for the wall. Jon was Ned's promise to Lya, and imo in his mind Gendry was his promise to Robert. And he saw more warrior in Gendry than a smith.

Sure, Ned might not have needed to write the letter anymore, and simply made it part of the bargain with Varys to arrange for it. Or he did write the letter for Tobho making the deal with Varys to give it to the armorer. Varys imo is just trying to take the credit to Tyrion.  So, I'm not saying that Varys didn't have anything to do with it, but that Ned was the instigator behind the plan, and Varys executed it.

[sweetsunray]

57 minutes ago, JRRStark said:

Ah! ok thanks. I was thinking it was to do with Jon and his regrets about not getting around to telling him about his mother.

Ned never made any promises to Jon about telling him about his mother in the books. That's show-only.