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Small Questions v. 10105

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4 hours ago, Lommy's Shade said:

It's not clear that Falia is really an "acknowledged" bastard. It's more likely that her parentage is an open secret, like for example Mya Stone. Mya is baseborn and although she's apparently treated well, she's still just part of Nestor Royce's household at the Gates of the Moon with no special privileges or rights. If Hewitt impregnated a commoner in his household, it's not surprising that the child would grow up and become a servant, regardless of who her father may be.

True, I don't recall whether Falia was technically acknowledged or not.

1 hour ago, Anton Martell said:

Ned and Roose Bolton are the exception. Most bastards are cast away. You don't treat them like children, or it might complicate legacies (which is why Catelyn hated Jon: he was not hidden like most bastards but actually in her face, plus a threat to her children's claim.

I guess, but Eddard and Roose really aren't the only exceptions. Even excluding the numerous Dornish bastards, we've still seen plenty of high born bastards either being treated well or rising to a position of respect or authority. Jon Snow, Mya Stone, Edric Storm, "Alayne Stone", Wex Pyke, Rolland Storm, Aurane Waters, Larence Snow and Cotter Pyke are examples of bastards who were either able to rise above their perceived typical station or were just treated well in general.

Assuming Falia was acknowledged, am I wrong in thinking that her treatment may have been perceived as severe by other high lords?

Edited by Oakhearts head

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As to why Gendry was sent to the Wall, in Eddard XIII, Game 47, Robert returns from the hunt, having been mortally wounded, by Petyr’s monstrous boar. Cersei and Pycelle fear what Eddard might tell Robert, but Eddard holds his tongue to ease his friend’s passing. Alone together, Robert commands Eddard to serve as Lord Regent and Protector of the Realm upon his imminent death, and Eddard vows to protect Robert’s children.

Quote

"I will give Lyanna your love, Ned. Take care of my children for me."

The words twisted in Ned's belly like a knife. For a moment he was at a loss. He could not bring himself to lie. Then he remembered the bastards: little Barra at her mother's breast, Mya in the Vale, Gendry at his forge, and all the others. "I shall . . . guard your children as if they were my own," he said slowly.

In Eddard XV, Game 58, no doubt after counseling Cersei, Varys visits Eddard in the black cells, and he brokers an agreement, to be ratified soon after “off-screen” by Cersei, that could end the nascent Stark-Lannister war. To force Eddard’s acquiescence, Cersei threatened to execute Sansa. Eddard agreed to confess to treason and to support Joffrey’s right to rule. In exchange for Eddard’s acquiescence, his daughter Sansa would remain in King’s Landing, but be treated gently. Rather than losing his head, Eddard was to join the Night’s Watch. Now, recall that Eddard thought of Gendry when he promised Robert to protect his children, and we can later surmise that Cersei agreed to send Gendry off with Eddard, but reneged after her son ordered Eddard’s death.  

In Tyrion II, Clash 8, Varys confirms that he did send Gendry to the Wall. . .  

Quote

"Alas, no. There was another bastard, a boy, older. I took steps to see him removed from harm's way . . . but I confess, I never dreamed the babe would be at risk. A baseborn girl, less than a year old, with a whore for a mother. What threat could she pose?"

"She was Robert's," Tyrion said bitterly. "That was enough for Cersei, it would seem."

"Yes. It is grievous sad. I must blame myself for the poor sweet babe and her mother, who was so young and loved the king."

Presumably, neither Eddard nor Varys saw any need to protect an infant bastard girl born to a whore. 

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

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9 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Well, Ned was in a dungeon for one. Secondly I think it far more likely for Ned to suspect baby Barra and her whore mother to be safe than a bastard son of about 14. I don't believe Varys to be convinced that Barra was safe. He's the on after all who knows Cersei's plotting and scheming better than Ned does. Nor do I even believe it was in any interest for Varys to help the bastards. It wasn't Varys after all who put Ned on a trail of bastards; that was Littlefinger. But it was Varys who pointed out how Cersei wanted to kill the king. Thirdly Robert was especially talking about taking care of his son on his deathbed, meaning Joffrey, but the eldest son is Gendry. And obviously the plan was for that boy to leave King's Landing together with Ned for the wall. Jon was Ned's promise to Lya, and imo in his mind Gendry was his promise to Robert. And he saw more warrior in Gendry than a smith.

Sure, Ned might not have needed to write the letter anymore, and simply made it part of the bargain with Varys to arrange for it. Or he did write the letter for Tobho making the deal with Varys to give it to the armorer. Varys imo is just trying to take the credit to Tyrion.  So, I'm not saying that Varys didn't have anything to do with it, but that Ned was the instigator behind the plan, and Varys executed it.

I have to disagree. This quote would suggest that Ned would protect all children, instead of only Gendry, I think:

“Good,” he said, smiling. “I will give Lyanna your love, Ned. Take care of my children for me.”
The words twisted in Ned’s belly like a knife. For a moment he was at a loss. He could not bring himself to lie. Then he remembered the bastards: little Barra at her mother’s breast, Mya in the Vale, Gendry at his forge, and all the others. “I shall... guard your children as if they were my own,” he said slowly.

He doesn't just make a promise about Gendry. He includes all of Robert's children, and even thinks about Barra specifically.

Baelish wanted chaos, and thus aided Eddard in the search for the bastards. Varys needed to keep the peace between the Lannisters and Starks for a while, and thus, helping Eddard to discover that Cersei's children weren't Robert's children would not have helped his cause. But if he would want to aid Aegon in his claim later on, having as many bastards of Robert on hand as possible, who, despite the looks of their mothers, had Robert's look, thereby adding more argument to the illegitimacy of Cersei's three children. But of all bastards, the one who posed the least danger to Cersei's children would have been Barra, who did not only come of very low birth, but was also the youngest of many children, and female, giving her the least of claims. For Cersei specifically, I think, it wasn't Barra's claim that got her killed, but simply the insult she represented.

And the saddest part is, that it might have been Ned from who Cersei learned about Barra's existence. 

“I’ve talked to Littlefinger,” Robert said. “He claims he rode off to bring the gold cloaks before the fighting began, but he admits you were returning from some whorehouse.”
“Some whorehouse? Damn your eyes, Robert, I went there to have a look at your daughter! Her mother has named her Barra. She looks like that first girl you fathered, when we were boys together in the Vale.” He watched the queen as he spoke; her face was a mask, still and pale, betraying nothing.
Robert flushed. “Barra,” he grumbled. “Is that supposed to please me? Damn the girl. I thought she had more sense.”

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8 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

I have to disagree. This quote would suggest that Ned would protect all children, instead of only Gendry,

And I disagree with your argument that if it had been Ned then all children would have saved. He was in a dungeon, and not in a position anymore to take care of all the children. The Night's Watch doesn't take women and babies along. But just the fact that both were to go to the wall together suggests Ned's "hand" in it. Varys wouldn't send the bastard that Ned saw and visited at Tobho's and he worried about to Ilyrio unless Ned asked it as his price in exchange for admitting to treason and promised to keep the boy's identity a secret. He had time to think. He knew Arya had disappeared, that Robb was marching, so they could not afford to kill Sansa. So, he got out of it what he could, take Gendry with him, and Varys agreed with Ned.

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On 9/11/2016 at 5:54 AM, Anton Martell said:

I have a question about the NW: how the hell do Black brother dig for treasure (go to the brothel) in Mole Town? How do they pay for it? Do the brothers get paid? Do they steal? If they get paid, what is the money for since they are not supposed to go into the world themselves, and no one mentions it also and if they steal, why are they not punished (the LC let them fuck a bit, that is called leniancy and tolerance, but you can't accept stealing). So how do they pay for the whores. Because I'm not sure brothel take services as payment. I'm very curious about it.

Also, we know the NW has money to buy goods, but where does it come from. Lords allowance? King's allowance? I'm guessing it's that and maybe the sell of some products from the Gift, but I was wondering about it

So Spake Martin

Quote

I assume that the Night's Watch does not pay the Black Brothers any wages in coin for their service - they get their provisions for free, after all.

What I was wondering...how do the Brothers pay the whores in Moletown? Since they're not using coin, do they pay in naturalia filched from Night Watch' stores?

I guess some women so far north would choose such a life (given that life is relatively harsher than farther south), even if they are not paid in coin...

A lot of the Mole's Town transactions are paid by barter, certaintly, but there is coin at the Wall... not much, though, especially these days... (see following answer). Some coin comes north with the highborn brothers... someone like Ser Waymar Royce undoubtedly arrived well heeled, and I imagine families send gifts and such as well... and there's trade that goes in and out of Eastwatch...

Second; do the Night's Watch receive funding and resources from Winterfell, the crown, or both?

Some from both, certainly... but traditionally the main support of the Watch has come from the Gift, a broad belt of land immediately south of the Wall, which the Watch owns. There is more about this in ASOS. The northernmost half of this was "Brandon's Gift," the southern half "the New Gift." Historically the Watch farmed the former (the stewards) and taxed the latter.

Of course, the decline in the size of the NW and the depopulation of the Gift have both have huge impacts... again, there's stuff about this is SOS.

 

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6 minutes ago, Roose on the Loose said:

If sharp steel is contraband anywhere in the sprawling city of Vaes Dothrak, how does anybody cook, sew, build, butcher or shave?

I think you can reason that out for yourself, no? 

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7 hours ago, SerBronnsMullet said:

Is Dragonstone impervious to dragonflame? This is important for a dance of the dragons (princess and queen) forum game I am running on another site.

The castle is made of the stone equivalent of VS(forged with dragon fire and shaped with sorcery) so it should be impervious to normal flame. But if a dragon breathed long and hard enough on it then it will melt. Since its made of valyrain fused stone there should be no wooden supports to burn so there's no risk of it losing suport in a fire.

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Q:. Has it ever been established how far South the White Walkers have been able to go?

We all assume the war with the WWs will be fought and stay in the North.

What if it's not?  What if the WWs are able to attack on several fronts at once if the Wall comes down?

A pincer movement starting in the North and the South moving towards the middle Like a fast moving ice age, couldn't the WWs take Dorne before Daenerys arrives in Westeros?

 The Dornish looking askance at those Northern Fairytales of an undead blue eyed army commanded by crystalline ice men, would be easy prey.

Aren't all bets off once the Wall comes down?  Water doesn't actually stop their : "...dead things in the water..."

I was just looking at the map of Westeros in relation to Essos, if the WWs want to conqueror the World wouldn't they have a multi-prong attack?

Edited by TheReal_Rebel

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4 hours ago, TheReal_Rebel said:

Q:. Has it ever been established how far South the White Walkers have been able to go?

We all assume the war with the WWs will be fought and stay in the North.

What if it's not?  What if the WWs are able to attack on several fronts at once if the Wall comes down?

A pincer movement starting in the North and the South moving towards the middle Like a fast moving ice age, couldn't the WWs take Dorne before Daenerys arrives in Westeros?

 The Dornish looking askance at those Northern Fairytales of an undead blue eyed army commanded by crystalline ice men, would be easy prey.

Aren't all bets off once the Wall comes down?  Water doesn't actually stop their : "...dead things in the water..."

I was just looking at the map of Westeros in relation to Essos, if the WWs want to conqueror the World wouldn't they have a multi-prong attack?

It's just speculation, but I'm inclined to think that the Red Mountains were the last barrier between the Others and the surviving humans during the war for the dawn. Sort of a natural wall. Hence the Daynes and Dawn being down there. 

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13 hours ago, TheReal_Rebel said:

Q:. Has it ever been established how far South the White Walkers have been able to go?

...

A pincer movement starting in the North and the South moving towards the middle Like a fast moving ice age, couldn't the WWs take Dorne before Daenerys arrives in Westeros?

In AFfC/ADwD, it snows in the Riverlands and in King's Landing, though it is still hot in Dorne.  If the WWs wish to attack all of Westeros, I would expect that Dorne is not nearly cold enough for them to be already attacking Dorne when Daenerys arrives. 

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10 hours ago, The Wolves said:

Did GRRM confirm special edition books of ACOK, ASOS, AFFC, and ADWD with drawings after the special edition of AGOT is released in October? 

Yes! Well for AGOT anyways...

http://grrm.livejournal.com/?skip=10

October 18. Scroll down a beat on the link for more information. 

Sorry. Just notied you were actually asking about the other 4 and already knew what I posted. My bad....

 

Edited by OtherFromAnotherMother

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On September 15, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Isobel Harper said:

In AFfC/ADwD, it snows in the Riverlands and in King's Landing, though it is still hot in Dorne.  If the WWs wish to attack all of Westeros, I would expect that Dorne is not nearly cold enough for them to be already attacking Dorne when Daenerys arrives. 

 

On September 15, 2016 at 7:36 AM, RumHam said:

It's just speculation, but I'm inclined to think that the Red Mountains were the last barrier between the Others and the surviving humans during the war for the dawn. Sort of a natural wall. Hence the Daynes and Dawn being down there. 

Thank You, Guys

:-)

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Rereading a dance with dragons and was just wondering if there were any theories out there regarding "The Knight from the Stormlands who wore the favor of Rhaella (Dany's mom) and then retired and became pious when she married Aerys"? Seems like limited info but just found it interesting if they may still be around.  

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40 minutes ago, Rob Storm said:

Rereading a dance with dragons and was just wondering if there were any theories out there regarding "The Knight from the Stormlands who wore the favor of Rhaella (Dany's mom) and then retired and became pious when she married Aerys"? Seems like limited info but just found it interesting if they may still be around.  

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Bonifer_Hasty

Can't remember if it was explicitly confirmed somewhere, or just the general consensus.

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Since Meereen had a city watch prior to Daenerys's arrival, and there was a need to set up a city watch (the Brazen Beasts) a while after, should we assume that the previous city watch was disbanded after Daenerys when over Meereen?

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5 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Since Meereen had a city watch prior to Daenerys's arrival, and there was a need to set up a city watch (the Brazen Beasts) a while after, should we assume that the previous city watch was disbanded after Daenerys when over Meereen?

I would say so, definitely.  However, I'm sure that men of the old city watch joined the Brazen Beasts just for the paycheck.  I'm thinking if Stannis took KL, he would let the old City Watch soldiers join the new CW, as long as they professed loyalty.  Dany would do the same thing??

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