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Rhaenys_Targaryen

Small Questions v. 10105

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7 minutes ago, Lord Corlys Velaryon said:

Likely, but someone being fostered is different to being a hostage

In theory, but if the political situation changed you still might have to hang your foster son. Like when Catelyn agreed to foster the Frey boys at Winterfell. I'm sure she presented it as an honor, but you know she wanted them in Stark hands to help ensure Lord Frey's loyalty. Aerys seemed to think Jon Arryn would turn his wards over to be killed. 

It also makes me think of Dany's meereenese cup-bearers. 

Quote

 

"We must keep them safe as well. I will have two children from each of them. From the other pyramids as well. A boy and a girl."

"Hostages," said Skahaz, happily.

"Pages and cupbearers. If the Great Masters make objection, explain to them that in Westeros it is a great honor for a child to be chosen to serve at court." She left the rest unspoken. "Go and do as I've commanded. I have my dead to mourn."

 

 

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@RumHam All very true, good points. That's where "ward" comes in (at least in so far as I interpret it) - the best foster relationship & the worst hostage relationship still fall under this; both involve someone effectively being held in possession by someone else. Like with Cat & the Walders: they were fostered at Winterfell, but could be used as hostages (& perhaps even executed) if Lord Walder started being naughty. In the Cat chapter before, Roose says the same thing to Walder (who Cat notes isn't pleased with being told, just except Cat doesn't know the true context behind it between the two men thinking Roose was acting on behalf of House Stark as the ones holding them at that time).

Besides his obvious father-like relationship with them & their innocence in the situation except simple association of being family & betrothed respectively oh, & just the whole pissing on the feudal system), the thing that was so monstrous to Jon about Aerys demanding Ned & Robert's heads is because it would mean he would have to break guest-right. Both men had technically ceased being fostered by Jon once they turned 16 (particularly Robert who was already LP of the Stormlands), especially (despite the importance of the alliances) as there was no immediate threat (besides Aerys calling for their heads of course) of a political rift between the three Houses (nor had there been in years since both turned 16), & so were merely his guests (even if it still represented a father-sons-brothers relationship between them).

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24 minutes ago, Lord Corlys Velaryon said:

Besides his obvious father-like relationship with them & their innocence in the situation except simple association of being family & betrothed respectively oh, & just the whole pissing on the feudal system), the thing that was so monstrous to Jon about Aerys demanding Ned & Robert's heads is because it would mean he would have to break guest-right. Both men had technically ceased being fostered by Jon once they turned 16 (particularly Robert who was already LP of the Stormlands), especially (despite the importance of the alliances) as there was no immediate threat (besides Aerys calling for their heads of course) of a political rift between the three Houses (nor had there been in years since both turned 16), & so were merely his guests (even if it still represented a father-sons-brothers relationship between them).

Yeah that's a good point I hadn't considered. I wonder if calling them Arryn's wards in the first book was a mistake, or if you're still considered someone's ward after you've reached manhood and returned home. I lean towards the former.

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Well, like a lot of things in ASoIaF it could be more complicated than &/or a case-by-case basis. But yes, I think in terms of Robert & Ned with Jon were they absolutely his (very welcome) guests & certainly not hostages. I don't think they were being fostered anymore, but with such a strong relationship & time together retained afterwards, some (& perhaps themselves) may have believed the fostering was still going (even though both had spent time at their respective ancestral seats & abroad, like at Harrenhal, as their own free men not following or being temporarily allowed to leave by the lord that had fostered them) on some level. Perhaps GRRM hadn't fully fleshed things out so early yet, or there was an interpretation of Ned & Robert to be Jon's wards (again, possibly further influenced by the strong relationship from fostering still being evident) in the situation of the king calling for their deaths.

Edited by Lord Corlys Velaryon

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Are there instances where similar names between characters are an intimation of a parallel/echo between the characters?  

One example (a somewhat bad example) I have is Aegon "Pisswater Prince" and Aegon "Jinglebells" who are both involved in an echo of a mother seeing her son die.  Elia Martell  (supposedly) saw Aegon's head being smashed against a wall and Catelyn kills Aegon "Jinglebells" after seeing Robb die.  ...Although I'm looking for similar names, not same names.  

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Is Fire and Blood still planned to come after the main series ends?

I am thinking yes so it doesn't potentially spoil anything in the main series, but for some reason I remember a date change happening to those plans, but don't mark my words on that.

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1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Is Fire and Blood still planned to come after the main series ends?

I am thinking yes so it doesn't potentially spoil anything in the main series, but for some reason I remember a date change happening to those plans, but don't mark my words on that.

Can't say I've heard or ready anything like that. As far as I know, Fire and Blood will be published at some point after the main series. Whether he also wishes to have written all the Dunk and Egg stories first, I cannot recall atm.

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3 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Can't say I've heard or ready anything like that. As far as I know, Fire and Blood will be published at some point after the main series. Whether he also wishes to have written all the Dunk and Egg stories first, I cannot recall atm.

Thanks:cheers:.

I have no doubt you are correct. I just wanted to be sure for my own thoughts and rememberings.

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1) I can't really grasp how naval warfare is done in Asoiaf could someone explain? Do ships ride side to side and shoot arrows at one another? Also who has the strongest fleet in the story outta Iron Islands, Redwynes, Velayrons, and King'sLandings( has a royal fleet right? )

2) Was reading about the Fourth Blackfyre and it seems an a 11 year old Jaehaerys( King Jaehearys II ) fought during the war. Could this be one of translation errors I heard about being in tWOIAF book, since we know he was a sickly guy his whole life?

3) Is it true Ser Duncan The Tall was never really a "Ser" and he lied to Baelor??? If so I find this hilarious XD. Also since Brienne is his descendant does that mean Duncan broke his King'sguard vow and fathered a daughter, or that Selwyn Tarh is really a bastard? I find this all so scandalous XD.

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13 minutes ago, Sir Matthis Light said:

2) Was reading about the Fourth Blackfyre and it seems an a 11 year old Jaehaerys( King Jaehearys II ) fought during the war. Could this be one of translation errors I heard about being in tWOIAF book, since we know he was a sickly guy his whole life?

3) Is it true Ser Duncan The Tall was never really a "Ser" and he lied to Baelor??? If so I find this hilarious XD. Also since Brienne is his descendant does that mean Duncan broke his King'sguard vow and fathered a daughter, or that Selwyn Tarh is really a bastard? I find this all so scandalous XD.

2) Jaehaerys, Daeron and Duncan indeed fought during the Fourth Blackfyre Rebellion. Since Jaehaerys was 11 and Daeron only 8, I assume that they served as squires. Since Duncan had been between the ages of 12 and 16, he might have still been a squire too.

Jaehaerys suffered from several ailments throughout his life, that is true. But apparently, that did not stop him from fighting in the war.

3) Duncan was, as far as we know, never knighted by Ser Arlan of Pennytree. We have several hints in the story heavily implying so, and a paraphrased statement from a reporter stating that GRRM confirmed it.

However, that doesn't mean that he wasn't, later on in his life, knighted. I would expect that he was, since he eventually became the LC of the Kingsguard.

As to Brienne, if she indeed is his descendent (good chance of that, imo), that doesn't mean that Selwyn had been a bastard. Duncan could have been married before joining the Kingsguard, for example. If he had had a daughter, that girl might have been Selwyn's mother. If he had had a son, that son might have had a daughter of his own in turn, who could have been married to Selwyn. There are several possibilities here.

But as long as Duncan had fathered a child prior to him joining the Kignsguard, he did not break any Kingsguard vows.

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1 hour ago, Sir Matthis Light said:

1) I can't really grasp how naval warfare is done in Asoiaf could someone explain? Do ships ride side to side and shoot arrows at one another? Also who has the strongest fleet in the story outta Iron Islands, Redwynes, Velayrons, and King'sLandings( has a royal fleet right? )

GRRM discusses fleet strengths in this SSM. Naval warfare in ASOIAF is pre-cannon, so most fighting involves ramming to damage hulls (Balon Greyjoy's Great Kraken has an iron kraken as its ram, for instance) or boarding actions to capture opposing vessels (like when Victarion captures the Serry vessel in "The Reaver"). 

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13 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

2) Jaehaerys, Daeron and Duncan indeed fought during the Fourth Blackfyre Rebellion. Since Jaehaerys was 11 and Daeron only 8, I assume that they served as squires. Since Duncan had been between the ages of 12 and 16, he might have still been a squire too.

Jaehaerys suffered from several ailments throughout his life, that is true. But apparently, that did not stop him from fighting in the war.

3) Duncan was, as far as we know, never knighted by Ser Arlan of Pennytree. We have several hints in the story heavily implying so, and a paraphrased statement from a reporter stating that GRRM confirmed it.

However, that doesn't mean that he wasn't, later on in his life, knighted. I would expect that he was, since he eventually became the LC of the Kingsguard.

As to Brienne, if she indeed is his descendent (good chance of that, imo), that doesn't mean that Selwyn had been a bastard. Duncan could have been married before joining the Kingsguard, for example. If he had had a daughter, that girl might have been Selwyn's mother. If he had had a son, that son might have had a daughter of his own in turn, who could have been married to Selwyn. There are several possibilities here.

But as long as Duncan had fathered a child prior to him joining the Kignsguard, he did not break any Kingsguard vows.

2) So I guess when he wasn't fighting any ailments he was fit enough to fight? Cool.

3) Lmao Idk why I find that one of the most legendary King'sguard members wasn't eve a knight XD. I'm not of the opinion of him getting knighted later life as what happen to Baelor in Ashford Meadows. I know divoricing a spouse to join the KG is spossible( Quentyn Ball did this correct ) but would find it odd tho if Duncan did this.

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6 minutes ago, Nittanian said:

GRRM discusses fleet strengths in this SSM. Naval warfare in ASOIAF is pre-cannon, so most fighting involves ramming to damage hulls (Balon Greyjoy's Great Kraken has an iron kraken as its ram, for instance) or boarding actions to capture opposing vessels (like when Victarion captures the Serry vessel in "The Reaver"). 

So going off this the Redwynes seem to be the top dogs at naval warfare with the bigger ships. Cool, thanks.

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7 minutes ago, Sir Matthis Light said:

2) So I guess when he wasn't fighting any ailments he was fit enough to fight? Cool.

3) Lmao Idk why I find that one of the most legendary King'sguard members wasn't eve a knight XD. I'm not of the opinion of him getting knighted later life as what happen to Baelor in Ashford Meadows. I know divoricing a spouse to join the KG is spossible( Quentyn Ball did this correct ) but would find it odd tho if Duncan did this.

2) Apparently not :) At the time, at least

3) Whoever might have knighted him later in life (if indeed had was knighted eventually), Duncan must have felt this person was trustworthy enough to entrust with his secret. For that reason, people have suggested Aegon V in the past.

Divorcing in Westeros isn't really common (Quentyn Ball did not divorce his wife, he forced her to join the silent sisters). But, if Duncan had been married at some point, the death of his wife (illness, childbirth, etc) could have allowed him to join the Kingsguard.

 

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Do other people know what happened at the Tower of Joy? I'm not talking about R+L=J. I'm wondering if people know what happened to the Kingsguard. Is it commonly known that Ned Stark and his companions went to Dorne and killed the Sword of the Morning, White Bull and Whent?

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