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Small Questions v. 10105


Rhaenys_Targaryen

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1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

But we have no idea what he originally looked like. 

I think KingMance is assuming the face that Arya saw after Jaqen changed his and the face that Pate saw was his original face.  (We don't know if that's his original face though.)

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44 minutes ago, Isobel Harper said:

I think KingMance is assuming the face that Arya saw after Jaqen changed his and the face that Pate saw was his original face.  (We don't know if that's his original face though.)

It is a reasonable conclusion. 

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9 hours ago, Isobel Harper said:

I think KingMance is assuming the face that Arya saw after Jaqen changed his and the face that Pate saw was his original face.  (We don't know if that's his original face though.)

That is in fact my assumption. From the 2 times we see jaqen change appearance, and when Arya receives her mission, we only see one "face" change. Jaqen reverts back to his close set eyes/tight black curls/hooked nose both times. 

It's not a lot to go on, and again I'm not hanging my hat on jaqen working for or being from dorne. Just found it worth a second look

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1 minute ago, Megaera said:

Is Skagos considered part of the north/westeros - if so do they do fealty to Winterfell?

The WoIaF has the Stoneborn of Skagos as part of the North. And in theory, I'd say yes, but not sure it actually works that way since they're pretty isolated and we haven't seen them at all. Yet. :)

 

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2 hours ago, Lord Corlys Velaryon said:

Haegon I Blackfyre? Most likely a daughter of Calla & Bittersteel, a sister (there was at least one besides Calla), or Tyroshi noblewoman.

A daughter of Calla woulda been too young, no? I agree her little sister is likely, but the Blackfyre's might have done better politically to wed strategically outside the immediate family. 

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9 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

A daughter of Calla woulda been too young, no? I agree her little sister is likely, but the Blackfyre's might have done better politically to wed strategically outside the immediate family.

Not necessarily. Calla was probably born c.186AC & Bittersteel married her before the Rebellion even kicked off - she may have started having child/ren c.200AC. Haegon died in 219AC - enough time to have have had Daemon III & (admittedly, at least) his unnamed younger brother with a teenage daughter of Calla & Aegor. But yes, their sister (poor Rohanne, but I think she may have had three daughters) is more likely. Still, if Calla had daughter/s, I'd be very surprised if Bittersteel didn't have them marrying male-line Blackfyres - the higher in the succession the better. I think it's fair to say that Haegon was his preferred royal claimant over Daemon II & even his puppet to a degree.

If the Blackfyres didn't continue the whole incest thing (including with Calla's line), then I'd be surprised if they didn't try & maintain the Valyrian looks with those of such blood (& so features) - one of the big "arguments" for Daemon I was his "Targaryeness" compared to Daeron I & Prince Baelor (Maekar inherited his father's features & Aerys seems to have as well, I wonder if Rhaegel did). But I think one of Daemon's few major mistakes was (seemingly) not using his children to try & increase his support. And it's likely one that Bittersteel & Haegon also neglected.

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50 minutes ago, Lord Corlys Velaryon said:

Not necessarily. Calla was probably born c.186AC & Bittersteel married her before the Rebellion even kicked off - she may have started having child/ren c.200AC. Haegon died in 219AC - enough time to have have had Daemon III & (admittedly, at least) his unnamed younger brother with a teenage daughter of Calla & Aegor. But yes, their sister (poor Rohanne, but I think she may have had three daughters) is more likely. Still, if Calla had daughter/s, I'd be very surprised if Bittersteel didn't have them marrying male-line Blackfyres - the higher in the succession the better. I think it's fair to say that Haegon was his preferred royal claimant over Daemon II & even his puppet to a degree.

If the Blackfyres didn't continue the whole incest thing (including with Calla's line), then I'd be surprised if they didn't try & maintain the Valyrian looks with those of such blood (& so features) - one of the big "arguments" for Daemon I was his "Targaryeness" compared to Daeron I & Prince Baelor (Maekar inherited his father's features & Aerys seems to have as well, I wonder if Rhaegel did). But I think one of Daemon's few major mistakes was (seemingly) not using his children to try & increase his support. And it's likely one that Bittersteel & Haegon also neglected.

If Rohanne had more than nine kids, she had to have at least one more set of twins. Otherwise, she was popping them out faster than one every 15 months. 

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4 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

If Rohanne had more than nine kids, she had to have at least one more set of twins. Otherwise, she was popping them out faster than one every 15 months. 

True. Yeah well whatever the case, she more than did her "duty" as his wife. She was almost certainly at least same age as Daemon, if not a few years older, but imagine how many they may have ended up with if he lived to at least 35 :o

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1 hour ago, Lord Corlys Velaryon said:

Not necessarily. Calla was probably born c.186AC & Bittersteel married her before the Rebellion even kicked off - she may have started having child/ren c.200AC. Haegon died in 219AC - enough time to have have had Daemon III & (admittedly, at least) his unnamed younger brother with a teenage daughter of Calla & Aegor. But yes, their sister (poor Rohanne, but I think she may have had three daughters) is more likely. Still, if Calla had daughter/s, I'd be very surprised if Bittersteel didn't have them marrying male-line Blackfyres - the higher in the succession the better. I think it's fair to say that Haegon was his preferred royal claimant over Daemon II & even his puppet to a degree.

If the Blackfyres didn't continue the whole incest thing (including with Calla's line), then I'd be surprised if they didn't try & maintain the Valyrian looks with those of such blood (& so features) - one of the big "arguments" for Daemon I was his "Targaryeness" compared to Daeron I & Prince Baelor (Maekar inherited his father's features & Aerys seems to have as well, I wonder if Rhaegel did). But I think one of Daemon's few major mistakes was (seemingly) not using his children to try & increase his support. And it's likely one that Bittersteel & Haegon also neglected.

In a way he did, by betrothing Calla to Aegor. Keep in mind that the other children were still very young (Daemon was only 7 at the Redgrass Field), so most of them were likely still too young to be fostered. With Daemon keeping his heirs close, apparently, it would likely be a few more years until Daemon would be in a position to use his children to forge alliances (by sending them out to be fostered, or betrothing them to the children of other nobles).

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7 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

In a way he did, by betrothing Calla to Aegor. Keep in mind that the other children were still very young (Daemon was only 7 at the Redgrass Field), so most of them were likely still too young to be fostered. With Daemon keeping his heirs close, apparently, it would likely be a few more years until Daemon would be in a position to use his children to forge alliances (by sending them out to be fostered, or betrothing them to the children of other nobles).

How did he with Calla & Aegor? Bittersteel was his biggest supporter, his brother, & one of his best friends (certainly Daemon was Aegor, anyway) ... Ok, I suppose Daemon shows that those who support him get rewarded, but this was before the Rebellion even started & Calla was his best dynastic pawn after the twins. And yes, the children were young, but what if tried to & made betrothals with say the Baratheons or Hightowers?

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52 minutes ago, Lord Corlys Velaryon said:

How did he with Calla & Aegor? Bittersteel was his biggest supporter, his brother, & one of his best friends (certainly Daemon was Aegor, anyway) ... Ok, I suppose Daemon shows that those who support him get rewarded, but this was before the Rebellion even started & Calla was his best dynastic pawn after the twins. And yes, the children were young, but what if tried to & made betrothals with say the Baratheons or Hightowers?

By betrothing Calla to Aegor, he would have gained the support of House Bracken in the riverlands, I assume.

Would the high lords be willing to betroth their children to one of Daemon's children, even though such marriages will not take place for about a decade? Haegon would have been between three and six years old, his siblings even younger. Betrothals at such a young age are, I think even during times of war, not often made. 

Nor does it seem to be the case that it was all that necessary. A lot of Daemon's support came from those who were not satisfied with Daeron II, or who thought to elevate their own station. Several of the houses who fought for Daemon are likely to have wanted to take the position of a house stronger than them (Yronwood, Reyne, Peake were some of the major houses, but we even saw it on a smaller scale, when House Osgrey joined Daemon, too). The houses that supported both sides (like House Hightower, Butterwell, Tarbeck, and Oakheart), would never have been willing to betroth any of theirs to a child of Daemon, as it would make it impossible to pretend not to have chosen a side.

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1 hour ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

In a way he did, by betrothing Calla to Aegor. Keep in mind that the other children were still very young (Daemon was only 7 at the Redgrass Field), so most of them were likely still too young to be fostered. With Daemon keeping his heirs close, apparently, it would likely be a few more years until Daemon would be in a position to use his children to forge alliances (by sending them out to be fostered, or betrothing them to the children of other nobles).

He kept his twins as squires. I'm a bit surprised he didn't have one squire for one of the princes or a prominent house in the Stormlands or the Reach. 

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1 hour ago, Lord Corlys Velaryon said:

How did he with Calla & Aegor? Bittersteel was his biggest supporter, his brother, & one of his best friends (certainly Daemon was Aegor, anyway) ... Ok, I suppose Daemon shows that those who support him get rewarded, but this was before the Rebellion even started & Calla was his best dynastic pawn after the twins. And yes, the children were young, but what if tried to & made betrothals with say the Baratheons or Hightowers?

Are you sure Calla and Bittersteel actually wed before the rebellion? I thought they were just betrothed. 

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11 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

He kept his twins as squires. I'm a bit surprised he didn't have one squire for one of the princes or a prominent house in the Stormlands or the Reach. 

The fact that Daemon II and Alyn Cockshaw had been so close as young children, and the fact that Alyn was familiar with Aegon and Aemon, suggests to me that Alyn had been fostered at Daemon's keep. If so, perhaps there were other children who were being fostered with Daemon as well (though possibly some children closer in age to Aemon and Aegon).

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