Future of Brienne and Jaime?

[Elisabetta Duò]

On 29/2/2016 at 10:50 AM, farerb said:

I think Brienne will kill Stoneheart to parallel Jaime killing Aerys. I don't think they'll end up together. Jaime is destined to die in my opinion.

agreed

[A Ghost of Someone]

I cannot see Jaime dying at the hands of Stoneheart, yet maybe I think an encounter will somehow make him a more devoted to justice man/knight as she is, in his world, a real miracle of sorts. As for Jiame and Brienne, I think that there something that will bud between them if there is a chance and a little time for it. The Seeds of it have already been planted. I agree with others, as GRRM has written for it and has this recurring theme, that there is a Beauty And The Beast aspect with the two of them, just like Sansa and Sandor.

[Danelle]

On 2/29/2016 at 3:04 PM, Hangover of the Morning said:

They'll probably going to bone on the way to Stoneheart, or so I hope. Jaime's my favourite character and I desperately want him to survive the encounter with Lady Vengeance but I'm leaning towards that not being the case. Sadly just makes too much of a story-wise and thematic sense.  Brienne might end up carrying Jaime's bastard, possibly even raising him/her as someone else's child. 

The main reason that makes lean towards Jaime surviving the encounter with Uncat is that if he dies at this point in the story line, it is extremely anticlimactic.  

As much as I like him, I doubt that he will survive the series but it is too soon for him to die. One does not introduce such a fascinating character to take him away so fast and in such an abrupt manner.

 

As for Brienne giving birth to his child, yeah, I think (hope) that this is likely.

After all there is a theory that Brienne is somehow related to an illegitimate child of Dunk. It would be history repeating itself if something similar happens this time between a Tarth and a Lannister. 

I cannot see Jaime dying at the hands of Stoneheart, yet maybe I think an encounter will somehow make him a more devoted to justice man/knight as she is, in his world, a real miracle of sorts. As for Jiame and Brienne, I think that there something that will bud between them if there is a chance and a little time for it. The Seeds of it have already been planted. I agree with others, as GRRM has written for it and has this recurring theme, that there is a Beauty And The Beast aspect with the two of them, just like Sansa and Sandor.

 

I second that. I think that meeting Uncat will be the final nail in the coffin if the Jaime Cersei love story. It will mark the point when he will turn his back to his sister and to a certain extent to his House. 

[beauty6]

Why do some of you think, that Jaime will get even better and deepeer in the redemption after meeting LSH ? I certainly hope he will not get darker again, but, from the perspective of behaviorism,he is not rewarded but punished for all his careful delving into the honorable behaviour. Cat is not impressed that he sent Brienne to help Sansa. Brienne pushes his honorable button (help me save Sansa from the Hound) to betray him. 

[Apoplexy]

40 minutes ago, beauty6 said:

Why do some of you think, that Jaime will get even better and deepeer in the redemption after meeting LSH ? I certainly hope he will not get darker again, but, from the perspective of behaviorism,he is not rewarded but punished for all his careful delving into the honorable behaviour. Cat is not impressed that he sent Brienne to help Sansa. Brienne pushes his honorable button (help me save Sansa from the Hound) to betray him. 

Jaime is trying to redeem himself, knowing full well he may not necessarily be rewarded for it. Being honorable cost him his sword hand. He was abused, humiliated and shamed, but he hasn't looked back, which leads me to believe he won't look back after the LS encounter. And we don't know yet if Brienne is going to tell Jaime the truth on the way to meeting LS or will she just deceive him. My bet is that she tells him the truth and he goes with her anyways.

[kissdbyfire]

53 minutes ago, beauty6 said:

Why do some of you think, that Jaime will get even better and deepeer in the redemption after meeting LSH ? I certainly hope he will not get darker again, but, from the perspective of behaviorism,he is not rewarded but punished for all his careful delving into the honorable behaviour. Cat is not impressed that he sent Brienne to help Sansa. Brienne pushes his honorable button (help me save Sansa from the Hound) to betray him. 

For me it's the fact that LSH is not Cat, and that Brienne will not betray Jaime.

[Adaneth]

On 29/2/2016 at 11:58 AM, farerb said:

I don't disagree. I love Brienne and Jaime and their relationship, but I don't want them to end up together, that would be cheesy.

I don't care much about Jamiie and Brienne as a couple tbh. But I hear this "cheesy" comment in regard to almost any love interest in the series. I'm wondering, isn't this a bit too nihilist POV? Is this what really GRRM is on about it?

[beauty6]

1 hour ago, Apoplexy said:

Being honorable cost him his sword hand. 

I don't think so. Did I miss something, or are you mixing in the elements from the show ? In the book, they cut off his hand entirely without any provocation from his side. 

Back to my original point, I meant to say, I do not see LSH as an impulse for Jaime to be more redemptive. If he develops further into the better person, it could be in spite of LSH, not thanks to her.

It does not make sense to me that Brienne would lie at first and later she says, "Sorry, I have no idea where Sansa is, I just wanted to speak with you away from your camp. I need to save the former squire of your brother Tyrion, would you go and help me ? It will be the two of us outnumbered by BWB, and their leader zombie lady Stark wants you dead".

[Castellan]

As I always pop up and say whenever a thread like this arises,I think their future is in death, resurrection and some final death, as happened for Beric. The BWB is the place where actual fire magic is happening and swords are flaming supernaturally, in contrast to Melisandre's false flaming sword with Stannis. Its even possible Brienne did not get 'sword' out in time and Thoros has already resurrected her.

I feel that LS may in fact execute Jaime (he is a golden lion and is just bound to have Oathkeeper run through his chest) and then she herself may resurrect him, seeing him as a last hope for her daughters, and dying as a consequence. At some stage presumably he will then pass the flame along to Brienne, dying to save her. Its true Brynden Tully may be at the camp and play a part in whatever trial happens there.

I was fairly convinced some time ago that we are seeing the AA prophecy enacted in a way as we see Thoros making a human 'sword; out of Beric (fire) Catelyn (water) Jaime (lion) Brienne (beloved). That doesn't mean I think either Thoros or Brienne are AA. I just see echoes of the prophecy here. 

I think Catelyn is a failed attempt (the sword breaks in water) as she was too long dead and revived full of vengeance rather than a worthy cause. Likewise I think its possible that Jaime will revive with the wrong 'mission' in mind - if he learns of events in KL at the BWB (walk of shame, etc) he may think Tommen is in danger and hie off to try to help his own family not the Stark girls. Or else he just won't be able to watch Brienne die and will fail in that sense.

I think the scenes at BWB and whatever happens to Jon in the north  (presumably surviving as a warg in Ghost while his body is on ice) will mark the lifting of the series into a more definite fantasy mode as it moves to a great battle between supernatural forces and not the machinations of particular families in Westeros. It gives me no joy as I liked Jaime and the Lannisters for being more interesting worldly characters with echoes of historical fiction not fantasy fiction. That is the sad thing that there plot lines allow is a possibility of an affair or even marriage for them, I can see a glimpse Jaime old on Tarth with Brienne, but they will be whisked up in the supernatural.

I think their relationship is quite likely to be sexless as a sort of atonement for Jaime's purely sexual relationship with Cersei . Brienne likely to remain 'The Maid' and Jaime 'The Warrior' until death.

[Apoplexy]

2 hours ago, beauty6 said:

I don't think so. Did I miss something, or are you mixing in the elements from the show ? In the book, they cut off his hand entirely without any provocation from his side. 

Back to my original point, I meant to say, I do not see LSH as an impulse for Jaime to be more redemptive. If he develops further into the better person, it could be in spite of LSH, not thanks to her.

It does not make sense to me that Brienne would lie at first and later she says, "Sorry, I have no idea where Sansa is, I just wanted to speak with you away from your camp. I need to save the former squire of your brother Tyrion, would you go and help me ? It will be the two of us outnumbered by BWB, and their leader zombie lady Stark wants you dead".

Even in the books, Jaime tries to prevent the mummers from assaulting Brienne. While this wasn't the reason why his hand was chopped off in the show or in the books, he was trying to protect her. Even in the books, Jaime tries to intimidate Vargo Hoat by invoking Tywin Lannister's name, which eventually backfires.

I think Brienne will eventually cave in and tell Jaime the truth instead of letting him believe the hound has Sansa. I doubt she can get herself to betray Jaime.

[Faera]

21 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

I think Brienne will eventually cave in and tell Jaime the truth instead of letting him believe the hound has Sansa. I doubt she can get herself to betray Jaime.

I agree. Truth be told, I wouldn't be surprised if she breaks down crying once Jaime starts asking her questions about what is going on. She has been put in a horrible situation - to betray a friend to save an innocent - and she is quite sensitive underneath it all. Her heart is as soft as any maid, after all. There is no way she will coldly be able to lead Jaime to LSH without cracking under pressure.

[beauty6]

1 hour ago, Faera said:

I agree. Truth be told, I wouldn't be surprised if she breaks down crying once Jaime starts asking her questions about what is going on. She has been put in a horrible situation - to betray a friend to save an innocent - and she is quite sensitive underneath it all. Her heart is as soft as any maid, after all. There is no way she will coldly be able to lead Jaime to LSH without cracking under pressure.

However, she is depicted as stubborn and determined. She has made her decision and I believe she will stick to it, even though it will feel like hell inside her. She decided Pod is a priority and she will not endanger him. If you were her, would you trust Jaime to put himself in danger to save Pod ? She is a bad liar, but her storry is inspired by the Sandor and Arya, which will help keep the lie on track.

Just to be clear, I believe they will survivve, she might even help Jaime after Pod is released and safe, she might kill LSH eventually.

I can also imagine a different way she might crack - if the deal is she should bring Jaime dead, she might be unable to kill him for physical reasons. She is not well and her injuries not fully healed. Jaime is fit and has had a regular training with Illyn Payne. She might be forced to tell the truth if she attempts an attack.

[Dofs]

On 23/10/2017 at 7:01 PM, beauty6 said:

Why do some of you think, that Jaime will get even better and deepeer in the redemption after meeting LSH ? I certainly hope he will not get darker again, but, from the perspective of behaviorism,he is not rewarded but punished for all his careful delving into the honorable behaviour. Cat is not impressed that he sent Brienne to help Sansa. Brienne pushes his honorable button (help me save Sansa from the Hound) to betray him. 

Jaime is not going to give up on being better and more honourable after being punished for it because there is nothing to give up. Jaime is actually not working hard on becoming this honourable dude, Jaime is simply being Jaime, it's his natural behaviour. After killing his king, Jaime was bitter and angry for people proclaiming him as someone without honor, disbelieving his every word, expecting from him any treachery, so he closed himself to the world, completely devoted himself to Cersei, was influenced by her a lot and eventually was convinced by others that he truly doesn't have any honour. But after losing his hand Jaime looked back at his life, saw what he has become and snapped out of it, starting to actually hate himself for all he was. But even in his 'bitter' times before he lost his hand you could still see the 'good guy' Jaime, the very same Jaime we see now, just hidden under walls of cynicism.

When Brienne was helplessly trying to get back to their boat with which they've escaped Riverrun, Jaime was planning to kill her with an oar and had every intention to do so, but his hands simply didn't listen and helped Brienne to get back into the boat instead. In the beginning of their journey Jaime was offending Brienne as hard as he could but the first time Brienne actually showed that she was hurt, Jaime instead of proclaiming victory, immediately melted down, apologised and tried to make up with her. Jaime has actually decided to follow the oath he gave to Cat before he lost his hand 'to see the faces of others when the Kingslayer follows his oath'.

The reason for those actions is simple - that's who Jaime in reality always was, even if Jaime himself at that point was convinced that he was an asshole. Jaime didn't hit Brienne with an oar because Jaime can't kill an innocent woman like that. Jaime tried to apologize for hurting Brienne because Jaime doesn't enjoy hurting innocent people, especially those who unjustifiably suffered in their lives. Jaime decided to follow the oath he gave to Cat, even though he was drunk and at sword point when he gave it,  because deep inside Jaime always cared about oaths. His "so many vows" speech, that on surface seemed to indicate that he didn't, actually implies that he cared about them a lot, because someone who doesn't care about, say, a poem will not know by heart every word in it (this speech, that I saw first in the show, was a clear indication to me that Jaime is receiving a redemption arc in the future). That's also why Jaime tried to save Brienne from rape first by lying about the Sapphire Islands and then later by shouting "sapphires" even though he was in pain and agony. Because Jaime couldn't not try to save her, he couldn't not to shout. Because not to shout would be against the very nature of Jaime.

After the loss of his hand, the asshole layer of Jaime disappeared and the 'good' Jaime, the 'natural default' Jaime emerged. The Jaime who he always was when he was a child, the one he was always supposed to grow up into. The loss of his hand simply shed Jaime from all the bad influences he had received, from everything that prevented him from being a true self. And Jaime is not letting anything to influence him anymore, anything that would make Jaime something he truly doesn't want to be. That's why he refused his father (which shocked his father), that's why he stopped listening Cersei's every word (which, in turn, shocked Cersei) and this is why LSH is not going to influence him again. Been there, done that. 

[Ralphis Baratheon]

Brienne will give birth to a gaggle of Jaime's children. They will all have Brienne's size and strength and Jaime's skill and swagger. They shall start a sellsword company.