You're Argos Sevenstar, invade The North

[TimJames]

You're Argos Sevenstar, and you have ambitions of establishing an Andal Kingdom in The North. How do insure that you stand triumphant in Winterfell?

[RobOsevens]

11 minutes ago, TimJames said:

You're Argos Sevenstar, and you have ambitions of establishing an Andal Kingdom in The North. How do insure that you stand triumphant in Winterfell?

The Andals repeatedly had their collective asses handed to them invasion attempt after invasion attempt. 

We do not know enough about the Battle of the Weeping water as to why the Andals lost (outnumbered? strategic or tactical errors?) so suggesting a better general or taking more men may not change the outcome. 

I think the only real option is marriage(s) and slow conversion to get an Andal Kingdom in the North. The Andals could also offer bribes / incentives to speed up conversion but I'm not sure what the Andals could offer to get the Northmen to make them want to convert. 

 

[The Wolves]

The Andals lost with the Northmen because the North was united under the Starks when the Andal invasion started. 

[Lion of the West]

12 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

The Andals lost with the Northmen because the North was united under the Starks when the Andal invasion started. 

The other kingdoms were also united and kicked the shit out the Andals whereever the Andals showed up after the Vale. The reason is that logic was temporarily murdered by the Seven in the South and thus the Andals could be victorious despite losing at every turn, while logic remained in place in the North. That's the reason as to why it happened. Constantly having your ass kicked had the logical outcome in the North and the opposite outcome in the South. The sheer equivilance of the Andals invasion is the Blackfyres taking the Iron Throne thanks to Daemon and the twins dying and the Blackfyre supporters crushed on the Redgrass Field.

[The Wolves]

54 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

The other kingdoms were also united and kicked the shit out the Andals whereever the Andals showed up after the Vale. The reason is that logic was temporarily murdered by the Seven in the South and thus the Andals could be victorious despite losing at every turn, while logic remained in place in the North. That's the reason as to why it happened. Constantly having your ass kicked had the logical outcome in the North and the opposite outcome in the South. The sheer equivilance of the Andals invasion is the Blackfyres taking the Iron Throne thanks to Daemon and the twins dying and the Blackfyre supporters crushed on the Redgrass Field.

I think some houses also just didn't want to fight anymore or at all so they welcomed the Andals in. 

[SevasTra82]

After the first 2-3 attempts of getting my ass kicked, I would wave a white flag and try diplomacy.  Maybe a marriage pact, or trading, or some sort of goods-for-land bartering.  

It was pretty clear early (and often) that Argos stood no chance of conquering the North.  He should have stopped trying and focused on peace with the Hungry Wolf.

[Jon Fossoway]

I'd take Bear Island and fortify it. Then launch some reaver attacks from there on random points of the western shore, raid, burn and do as much damage to small coastal villages on a short amount of time, while smuggling a small army through the Wolfswood and taking  Winterfell.

[RobOsevens]

42 minutes ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

I'd take Bear Island and fortify it. Then launch some reaver attacks from there on random points of the western shore, raid, burn and do as much damage to small coastal villages on a short amount of time, while smuggling a small army through the Wolfswood and taking  Winterfell.

FYI, Bear Island isn't really an option since you are coming from across the narrow sea

[The Mountain That Flies]

1. Fortify a base around where White Harbor eventually sprang up. Establish peaceful trading relationships with nearby houses.

2. Begin using the political divisions within the North to slowly place vassal lords loyal to me into power.

3. Ally with the Red Kings to take down the Starks, whilst plotting a betrayal for the Boltons immediately after we achieve victory.

4. Give appropriate lands to lords that came into our cause during the war against the Starks, thus ensuring a loyal power base. Arrange as many inter-connecting marriages as possible to solidify this.

All in all this plan should take 30 years or so to implement properly, so I hope Argos was relatively young when he invaded.

[Dorian Martell]

3 hours ago, TimJames said:

You're Argos Sevenstar, and you have ambitions of establishing an Andal Kingdom in The North. How do insure that you stand triumphant in Winterfell?

I would watch army after army throw itself at Moat cailin until I had no troops left and then I would quit. Like how it went down in the books, so we could have the story we read instead of an Andal ruled north fan fic  shadow of a story 

[RobOsevens]

8 minutes ago, Dorian Martell said:

I would watch army after army throw itself at Moat cailin until I had no troops left and then I would quit. Like how it went down in the books, so we could have the story we read instead of an Andal ruled north fan fic  shadow of a story 

Man sometimes I wonder if you arent the George himself with your pure hatred of fan fic and what if's haha

[Dorian Martell]

5 minutes ago, RobOsevens said:

Man sometimes I wonder if you arent the George himself with your pure hatred of fan fic and what if's haha

I love what ifs, just not "What if the author wrote a different story than the one we read?" 

[RobOsevens]

Just now, Dorian Martell said:

I love what ifs, just not "What if the author wrote a different story than the one we read?" 

Some topics rub me the wrong way too 

[Dorian Martell]

1 minute ago, RobOsevens said:

Some topics rub me the wrong way too 

Also, I am a terrible author, so there is no way I will ever be confused with GRRM, except for the beard, love of fantasy and sci fi and tasty food 

[Free Northman Reborn]

The other kingdoms did not keep kicking the Andals asses. The Vale resisted them for a while, but were finally defeated. The Riverlands resisted them for a while, but were defeated. The Stormlands defeated them for a long time, but eventually were forced to intermarry with them. The Reach basically welcomed them in immediately and also intermarried with them to keep the peace. As far as I can recall, only the West continued to kick their asses, until they also finally decided to intermarry with them.

As for the nature of the battle of the Weeping Water. We do know a bit about it. We know that Argos launched the greatest invasion of the North by any Andal in history, as the World book states that his was the greatest Andal threat to the North. So we must assume that his army was large. And it was utterly crushed.

 

[aryagonnakill#2]

33 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

The other kingdoms did not keep kicking the Andals asses. The Vale resisted them for a while, but were finally defeated. The Riverlands resisted them for a while, but were defeated. The Stormlands defeated them for a long time, but eventually were forced to intermarry with them. The Reach basically welcomed them in immediately and also intermarried with them to keep the peace. As far as I can recall, only the West continued to kick their asses, until they also finally decided to intermarry with them.

As for the nature of the battle of the Weeping Water. We do know a bit about it. We know that Argos launched the greatest invasion of the North by any Andal in history, as the World book states that his was the greatest Andal threat to the North. So we must assume that his army was large. And it was utterly crushed.

 

We do hear about them loosing a ton of battles tho, we are told that 1 king of the Riverlands beat them 99 times.

[Free Northman Reborn]

24 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

We do hear about them loosing a ton of battles tho, we are told that 1 king of the Riverlands beat them 99 times.

Think about it, though. The Andal invasion stretched over many centuries.

Given the West's vast wealth, what are the chances that the King of the Rock didn't buy ten thousand steel swords from Volantis or Valyria or from some impoverished Andal petty kings in Andalos long before the Andals reached the Westerlands.

Heck, by the time the Andals had conquered the Vale and started moving into the Riverlands, the Lannisters had probably hired a hundred iron smiths of their own to make steel weapons for their own armies. By the time the Andals reached the Westerlands and probably the Reach as well, the arms race had long since equalled out, and the Andals had lost their technological advantage. I'm pretty confident of that.

[Jon Fossoway]

4 hours ago, RobOsevens said:

FYI, Bear Island isn't really an option since you are coming from across the narrow sea

So? I'll travel to the western coast and set sail from there. Recruiting whoever wants a good share of land and gold in the process.

[TimJames]

The invasion plans and speculations on this thread are facinating. These threads have been a lot more fun since I added Doran Martell to my ignore list; I can only see "do what creates the story we have" posted so many times before I become convinced that nothing he has to say will ever be something I'll want to see. 

For those who already understand that what-if threads should be answered as though the events of the series were uncontrolled events in a real universe, as apposed to carefully planned events in a fictional story (in other words, for those who don't lack imaginations or the ability to pretend), I will say that I am pleased with the invasion plans listed. 

 

10 hours ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

I'd take Bear Island and fortify it. Then launch some reaver attacks from there on random points of the western shore, raid, burn and do as much damage to small coastal villages on a short amount of time, while smuggling a small army through the Wolfswood and taking  Winterfell.

This plan would take a long time (sailing around Dorne and up the west coast), but could ultimately have large payoffs. Since The North lacks major ports on its West Coast, it's navy would be at a disadvantage when attempting to retake Bear Island. Likewise, you would get a steady supply of reinforcements from Lannisport and even from The Iron Isles. If you smuggled troops in secretly, you could launch your attack on The Wolfswood by surprise and take The Northmen off-guard. From there you'll just have to hope you win the battles. All in all, a good plan.

8 hours ago, The Mountain That Flies said:

1. Fortify a base around where White Harbor eventually sprang up. Establish peaceful trading relationships with nearby houses.

2. Begin using the political divisions within the North to slowly place vassal lords loyal to me into power.

3. Ally with the Red Kings to take down the Starks, whilst plotting a betrayal for the Boltons immediately after we achieve victory.

4. Give appropriate lands to lords that came into our cause during the war against the Starks, thus ensuring a loyal power base. Arrange as many inter-connecting marriages as possible to solidify this.

All in all this plan should take 30 years or so to implement properly, so I hope Argos was relatively young when he invaded.

Dividing enemies is a classic way of making them easier to conquer. If the Boltons and The Starks are fighting each-other, then they won't be able to fight you.

You could then strike when both sides are weakened, and The North will become an Andal Kingdom. 

10 hours ago, SevasTra82 said:

After the first 2-3 attempts of getting my ass kicked, I would wave a white flag and try diplomacy.  Maybe a marriage pact, or trading, or some sort of goods-for-land bartering.  

This is certainly one way of converting The North to the faith of The Seven. Conversion-By-Marriage worked on The Westerlands, The Stormlands, The Cracklaw Point, and The Reach; it could have easily worked on The Northmen as well. 

Marry Theon's daughter and assassinate him, then take the name Stark and rule as Lord of Winterfell. That's how Joffery Lydden took over and converted The Westerlands.

Or you could have Theon Stark marry your daughter, ensuring that all subsequent Starks are descended from your bloodline. That's how the Durrandons and the Gardners were converted by The Seven. 

12 hours ago, RobOsevens said:

I think the only real option is marriage(s) and slow conversion to get an Andal Kingdom in the North. The Andals could also offer bribes / incentives to speed up conversion but I'm not sure what the Andals could offer to get the Northmen to make them want to convert. 

The same thing they offered The Durrandons, The Lannisters, and the Clawmen: some sweet Andal booty. Marriages with Andal Maidens will make Northern Lords less wary of The Seven and more receptive to conversion. Their children will be raised with Andal influences, and some might convert. 

[Lion of the West]

8 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

The other kingdoms did not keep kicking the Andals asses. The Vale resisted them for a while, but were finally defeated. The Riverlands resisted them for a while, but were defeated. The Stormlands defeated them for a long time, but eventually were forced to intermarry with them. The Reach basically welcomed them in immediately and also intermarried with them to keep the peace. As far as I can recall, only the West continued to kick their asses, until they also finally decided to intermarry with them.

As for the nature of the battle of the Weeping Water. We do know a bit about it. We know that Argos launched the greatest invasion of the North by any Andal in history, as the World book states that his was the greatest Andal threat to the North. So we must assume that his army was large. And it was utterly crushed.

 

 

That isn't entirely correct. Yes, we hear of the Andals taking the Vale in a believable manner, and score two or three victories in the Riverlands. But beyond that the First Men just butchers the Andals at every encounter. If the real Saxons, or Vikings, had been butchered to the degree they are in their raids and invasions then they would have given up any thought of conquest before long. Its rather telling that the Storm King didn't face defeat a single time but seeminly destroyed dozens of Andal armies/warbands before they for some obscure reason surrendered and intermarried with the Andals, when by logic it would have been entirely possible to keep killing Andals untill there were no Andals left. If the First Men kings did intermarry with the Andals it would have been because the Andals were some kind of threat but we never gets to see that they would be.

The Andal invasion's wider success makes about as much sense as either the Blackfyres winning the Iron Throne due to losing the Redgrass Field or the Starks starting to intermarry with Wildlings because they need to keep the peace from these dangerous raiders. None of it makes sense.