Theon's bastard

[John Suburbs]

On ‎3‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 4:50 PM, Lord_Ravenstone said:

The latter. 

The ironborn won't support him because he's a wreck, weak and half a greenlander.

Besides Theon's fate is tied to Winterfell not the Iron Islands. Winterfell is his home. 

If a Greyjoy will rule the Iron Islands it'll be Asha.

 

On ‎3‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 9:06 AM, LadyoftheNorth72 said:

I haven't seen any textual evidence that the Ironborn refused Theon due to his mutilation (whatever that may entail). They found him and his soft greenland ways distasteful long before he fell into Ramsay's hands. 

He was able to pass himself off as Lord Balon's son to the ironborn holding Moat Cailin easily enough, and he was just skin and bones at that point. So the ironborn still have reverence for titles and heredity, even when they belong to a weakling.

Now, whether Theon could play that card all the way to the Seastone Chair is another matter...

[Lost Melnibonean]

15 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

 

He was able to pass himself off as Lord Balon's son to the ironborn holding Moat Cailin easily enough, and he was just skin and bones at that point. So the ironborn still have reverence for titles and heredity, even when they belong to a weakling.

Now, whether Theon could play that card all the way to the Seastone Chair is another matter...

With backing from Lord Harlaw, Asha, and Aeron (assuming the priest somehow survives and Euron dies), he just might. 

[Kandrax]

On 2.3.2016. at 11:36 PM, The Arthur Smith said:

Theon would have to be like 10 if the oldest boy is his son and his first time screwing the miller's wife lol. But maybe the younger miller's son could have been his son.

Theon is 12 year older than Bran. The oldest could be one year younger than Bran.

It isn't impossible for 10 year old to impregnate someone.

[Lost Melnibonean]

16 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

Theon is 12 year older than Bran. The oldest could be one year younger than Bran.

It isn't impossible for 10 year old to impregnate someone.

The salt son I am thinking of is this one...

This is usually argued to be Robb's wife and heir with the Blackfish in disguise...

A young mother climbed in after him, a babe not much older than Gilly's squalling in her arms.

Samwell V, Feast

But unless the George was trolling us when he said the different descriptions of Jeyne's hips were a mistake, that babe was not Robb's.

Could it have been Theon's bastard?

The Myraham was a fat-bellied southron merchanter up from Oldtown, carrying wine and cloth and seed to trade for iron ore. Her captain was a fat-bellied southron merchanter as well, ...

...

Theon Greyjoy pushed her hand aside and climbed off the bunk. "My place is Pyke, and yours is on this ship."

"I can't stay here now."

He laced up his breeches. "Why not?"

"My father," she told him. "Once you're gone, he'll punish me, milord. He'll call me names and hit me."

Theon swept his cloak off its peg and over his shoulders. "Fathers are like that," he admitted as he pinned the folds with a silver clasp. "Tell him he should be pleased. As many times as I've fucked you, you're likely with child. It's not every man who has the honor of raising a king's bastard." She looked at him stupidly, so he left her there.

Theon I, Clash

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

Theon has been spreading his around since he was a teenager.  He is liable to already have a bastard or two.  The only way Theon can lord over the iron islands is through a clear demonstration of strength.  Like thrashing his uncles.  I don't think he's capable of that before he lost his manhood and he is weaker now.  

[Lost Melnibonean]

29 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Theon has been spreading his around since he was a teenager.  He is liable to already have a bastard or two.  The only way Theon can lord over the iron islands is through a clear demonstration of strength.  Like thrashing his uncles.  I don't think he's capable of that before he lost his manhood and he is weaker now.  

I don't think anyone realistically expects Theon to conquer the Iron Islands. The idea is that Asha and or Aeron backed by Harlaw and other moderates would use him has a puppet. 

[Lord_Ravenstone]

23 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

With backing from Lord Harlaw, Asha, and Aeron (assuming the priest somehow survives and Euron dies), he just might. 

Aeron's dead-dead. His next chapter is likely his last/

 I think if Euron is beaten it's because he's killed and the Iron Islands is left in a vacuum. At that point, why wouldn't Asha just decide to rule herself? They don't really need Theon at that point.

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

26 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Aeron's dead-dead. His next chapter is likely his last/

 I think if Euron is beaten it's because he's killed and the Iron Islands is left in a vacuum. At that point, why wouldn't Asha just decide to rule herself? They don't really need Theon at that point.

 

Because of the foreshadowing here...

Quote

Asha wrenched loose her dirk and sheathed it once again. "A bloody kingsmoot!"

"On Old Wyk," confirmed Lord Rodrik. "Though I pray it is not bloody. I have been consulting Haereg's History of the Ironborn. When last the salt kings and the rock kings met in kingsmoot, Urron of Orkmont let his axemen loose among them, and Nagga's ribs turned red with gore. House Greyiron ruled unchosen for a thousand years from that dark day, until the Andals came."

"You must lend me Haereg's book, Nuncle." She would need to learn all she could of kingsmootsbefore she reached Old Wyk.

"You may read it here. It is old and fragile." He studied her, frowning. "Archmaester Rigney once wrote that history is a wheel, for the nature of man is fundamentally unchanging. What has happened before will perforce happen again, he said. I think of that whenever I contemplate the Crow's Eye. Euron Greyjoy sounds queerly like Urron Greyironto these old ears. I shall not go to Old Wyk. Nor should you."

The Kraken's Daughter, Feast 11

And here...

Quote

"I think the Damphair's dead. I think the Crow's Eye slit his throat for him. Ironmaker's search is just to make us believe the priest escaped. Euron is afraid to be seen as a kinslayer."

"Never let my nuncle hear you say that. Tell the Crow's Eye he's afraid of kinslaying, and he'll murder one of his own sons just to prove you wrong." Asha was feeling almost sober by then. Tristifer Botley had that effect on her.

"Even if you did find your uncle Damphair, the two of you would fail. You were both part of the kingsmoot, so you cannot say it was unlawful called, as Torgon did. You are bound to its decision by all the laws of gods and men. You—"

Asha frowned. "Wait. Torgon? Which Torgon?"

"Torgon the Latecomer."

"He was a king during the Age of Heroes." She recalled that much about him, but little else. "What of him?"

"Torgon Greyiron was the king's eldest son. But the king was old and Torgon restless, so it happened that when his father died he was raidingalong the Mander from his stronghold on Greyshield. His brothers sent no word to him but instead quickly called a kingsmoot, thinking that one of them would be chosen to wear the driftwood crown. But the captains and the kings chose Urragon Goodbrother to rule instead. The first thing the new king did was command that all the sons of the old king be put to death, and so they were. After that men called him Badbrother, though in truth they'd been no kin of his. He ruled for almost two years."

Asha remembered now. "Torgon came home …"

"… and said the kingsmoot was unlawful since he had not been there to make his claim. Badbrother had proved to be as mean as he was cruel and had few friends left upon the isles. The priests denounced him, the lords rose against him, and his own captains hacked him into pieces. Torgonthe Latecomer became the king and ruled for forty years."

Asha took Tris Botley by the ears and kissed him full upon the lips. He was red and breathless by the time she let him go. "What was that?" he said.

"A kiss, it's called. Drown me for a fool, Tris, I should have remembered—" She broke off suddenly. When Tris tried to speak, she shushed him, listening. "That's a warhorn. Hagen."

The Wayward Bride, Dance 26

And here...

Quote

Upon the death of King Urragon III Greyiron (Urragon the Bald), his younger sons hurriedly convened a kingsmoot whilst their elder brother Torgon was raiding up the Mander, thinking that one of them would be chosen to wear the driftwood crown. To their dismay, the captains and kings chose Urrathon Goodbrother of Great Wyk instead. The first thing the new king did was command that the sons of the old king be put to death. For that, and for the savage cruelty he oft displayed during his two years as king, Urrathon IV Goodbrother is remembered in history as Badbrother.

When Torgon Greyiron returned at last to the Iron Islands, he declared the kingsmoot to be invalid because he had not been present to make a claim. The priests supported him in this, for they had grown weary of Badbrother’s arrogance and impiety. Smallfolk and great lords alike arose at their call, rallying to Torgon’s banners, until Urrathon’s own captains hacked Urrathon into pieces. Torgon the Latecomer became king in his stead, and ruled for forty years without ever having been chosen and proclaimed at a kingsmoot.

The Iron Islands, The World of Ice and Fire

Although, I could see Asha using Theon to protest and overturn the kingsmoot, and then take the crown herself. 

[Lord_Ravenstone]

14 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Because of the foreshadowing here...

The Kraken's Daughter, Feast 11

And here...

The Wayward Bride, Dance 26

And here...

The Iron Islands, The World of Ice and Fire

Although, I could see Asha using Theon to protest and overturn the kingsmoot, and then take the crown herself. 

That's the most likely outcome if they were to use a kingsmoot. Theon is used to overturn the kingsmoot and then Asha gets herself elected.

But.....I don't see why that all has to happen if all Euron's going to be killed by someone before anyone before all that needs to happen.

Although I could see us going full Scouring of the Shire with Euron as Saruman and Theon as Wormtongue. 

[UnFit Finlay]

Am I the only one who thinks that the Iron born will revere Theon then?

The guy took Winterfell with a handful of men, held it against incredible odds and only lost it due to being betrayed. He was then held captive and underwent horrific torture......but he survived. If he ends up killing Ramsay then he'll be a legend.

There's certainly no way they can accuse him of being a "soft green lander" anymore anyway, or claim that he really wants to be a Stark. I mean, we know he does, because we've read his thoughts but, to the casual observer, he spent half his life as their hostage and then took their castle almost as soon as he had the chance.

Besides, I think they'll soon be desperate to get rid of Euron. Theon as a figurehead with Asha as his Hand, doing all the actual work, will look pretty appealing. I can see him naming her as his heir too, like Balon intended, and her leadership actually (finally) civilising the Iron Born.

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, UnFit Finlay said:

Am I the only one who thinks that the Iron born will revere Theon then?

The guy took Winterfell with a handful of men, held it against incredible odds and only lost it due to being betrayed. He was then held captive and underwent horrific torture......but he survived. If he ends up killing Ramsay then he'll be a legend.

There's certainly no way they can accuse him of being a "soft green lander" anymore anyway, or claim that he really wants to be a Stark. I mean, we know he does, because we've read his thoughts but, to the casual observer, he spent half his life as their hostage and then took their castle almost as soon as he had the chance.

Besides, I think they'll soon be desperate to get rid of Euron. Theon as a figurehead with Asha as his Hand, doing all the actual work, will look pretty appealing. I can see him naming her as his heir too, like Balon intended, and her leadership actually (finally) civilising the Iron Born.

I know Theon is a villain,  but he is such a tragic villain. I would like to see his arc end in such a fashion. Or on the Wall. 

[aryagonnakill#2]

4 hours ago, UnFit Finlay said:

Am I the only one who thinks that the Iron born will revere Theon then?

The guy took Winterfell with a handful of men, held it against incredible odds and only lost it due to being betrayed. He was then held captive and underwent horrific torture......but he survived. If he ends up killing Ramsay then he'll be a legend.

There's certainly no way they can accuse him of being a "soft green lander" anymore anyway, or claim that he really wants to be a Stark. I mean, we know he does, because we've read his thoughts but, to the casual observer, he spent half his life as their hostage and then took their castle almost as soon as he had the chance.

Besides, I think they'll soon be desperate to get rid of Euron. Theon as a figurehead with Asha as his Hand, doing all the actual work, will look pretty appealing. I can see him naming her as his heir too, like Balon intended, and her leadership actually (finally) civilising the Iron Born.

I personally agree, I think the Ironborn words will end up being foreshadowing for Theon.  What is dead may never die, but rises again harder and stronger.  People thought Theon was dead, and when he rises he will have experienced true horrors and be a humbler, kinder, smarter person.