Keep your hands off my Manimal! Skinchangers, Wargs and Greenseers

[Gendrymander]

I like this thread. I will add some rambling thoughts.

1.) His name is Varamyr Sixskins. "He rode to battle on the back of a snow bear 13 feet tall, kept 3 wolves and a shadow cat in thrall..." As noted above, GRRM wrote,"Varamyr had lost control of his other beasts in the agony of his eagle's death. His shadowcat had raced away...his snow bear turned his claws on those around her... His wolves though..."[ Prologue ADWD].

So, it sounds like he controls them all at once as he rode with the Wildlings south toward the wall.

2.) I won't repeat what has been said about Jon slowly gaining a more mature link with Ghost. It reads as though Jon is untrained at being a warg, gradually learning to hold Ghost " in thrall" like Varamyr could do. He progresses, from dreaming of Ghost's roaming while sleeping, to a point where he can see Ghosts experiences in real time, while awake.

3.) I don't find any passages suggesting a warg- like link between Dany and the dragons, though. It sounds like a master and her trained pet, though, like any master and his dog. 

In the smoldering red pits of Drogon’s eyes, Dany saw her own reflection. How small she looked, how weak and frail and scared. I cannot let him see my fear . She scrabbled in the sand, pushing against the pitmaster’s corpse, and her fingers brushed against the handle of his whip. Touching it made her feel braver. The leather was warm, alive. Drogon roared again, the sound so loud that she almost dropped the whip. His teeth snapped at her. Dany hit him. “No,” she screamed, swinging the lash with all the strength that she had in her. The dragon jerked his head back. “No,” she screamed again. “NO!” The barbs raked along his snout. Drogon rose, his wings covering her in shadow. Dany swung the lash at his scaled belly, back and forth until her arm began to ache. His long serpentine neck bent like an archer’s bow. With a hisssssss , he spat black fire down at her. Dany darted underneath the flames, swinging the whip and shouting, “No, no, no. Get DOWN!” His answering roar was full of fear and fury, full of pain. His wings beat once, twice … … and folded. The dragon gave one last hiss and stretched out flat upon his belly. Black blood was flowing from the wound where the spear had pierced him, smoking where it dripped onto the scorched sands. He is fire made flesh , she thought, and so am I . Daenerys Targaryen vaulted onto the dragon’s back, seized the spear, and ripped it out. The point was half-melted, the iron red-hot, glowing. She flung it aside. Drogon twisted under her, his muscles rippling as he gathered his strength. The air was thick with sand. Dany could not see, she could not breathe, she could not think. The black wings cracked like thunder, and suddenly the scarlet sands were falling away beneath her.[DAENERYS 9,ADWD].

Drogon sure obeys her here, even though he is wounded. Their bond goes deeper than just that of a master/pet, possibly to the level of a warg and his/her animal.

What we aren't shown is Dany having dreams of the dragons just flying around, doing their thing, in the way the Starks have dreams about their direwolves on the hunt in the woods. At least I can't remember seeing that. All I can find is that she has dreams about her dragons in prophetic dreams, eg. Riding a black Dragon to the Trident, burning an army of what reads like Others. So either GRRM has kept it unclear, or he is leaving it to us to decide.

4.) One speculation we could make: did some of the Targaryen kings go mad because of warging into their dragons? 

In Varamyr's story, he remembers back to Haggon's warnings to stick with warging wolves, because warging other animals will make you not like what you become.

[The Fattest Leech]

7 hours ago, Gendrymander said:

~snipped for length~

4.) One speculation we could make: did some of the Targaryen kings go mad because of warging into their dragons? 

In Varamyr's story, he remembers back to Haggon's warnings to stick with warging wolves, because warging other animals will make you not like what you become.

Very good observation. I never thought about that. It might have to be a combo of that and the severe inbreeding because Dany's dad, the mad Mad one, did not have a dragon of his own

I guess we still need that canon text to let us know if a dragon can be warged as opposed to just having a very strong bond with their handler and sensing emotions from them.

[The Fattest Leech]

7 hours ago, Gendrymander said:

~snipped for length~

What we aren't shown is Dany having dreams of the dragons just flying around, doing their thing, in the way the Starks have dreams about their direwolves on the hunt in the woods. At least I can't remember seeing that. All I can find is that she has dreams about her dragons in prophetic dreams, eg. Riding a black Dragon to the Trident, burning an army of what reads like Others. So either GRRM has kept it unclear, or he is leaving it to us to decide.

~snipped again~

This is also a very good point and more towards what I was hoping for. I always say that you have to listen to what GRRM is not saying as much as what he is saying This goes for interviews and his blog as well. He can be a funny guy.

Thank you for your input.

[The Fattest Leech]

On 3/25/2016 at 8:49 PM, kissdbyfire said:

Yeah, a thread I started... Dunno 3-4 yrs ago? I did try to find it a couple of years back, and I went through my content and all, but couldn't find it. I just assumed it'd been deleted completely or something. That was before the upgrade, of course. I'll have another look now, who knows.

Did you ever find this piece of wit and wisdom??? I hope so.

[The Fattest Leech]

11 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

~snipped~

3. I think so. I think what happens to Varamyr is what happens when people die, they join the godhood. Leaf tells Bran that this is what happens when singers (CotF) die; but maybe it applies to all living beings. 

~snipped~

All of your points are very good, but this one stood out to me as it's not something I really thought too much about in the past. This makes sense to me because we hear of people dying and returning to the earth, river, ocean. However, since once a human dies and can't come back and tell what it is like, then it is only the greenseers hooked up to the weirnet that know this info (and what the person was like in life?).

[The Fattest Leech]

10 hours ago, evita mgfs said:

I am going to try to address an aspect of Bran’s growing powers that is probably unlikely, but then again, maybe not.

 

If most of what Lord Brynden had been as a man has been absorbed by the trees, as Leaf tells Bran, then when Bran becomes one with the weirwood, he, by default, absorbs all that the trees hold of the essence that is/was Bloodraven.

 

Does that make sense?

 

If this is so, then perhaps, and if Targaryen blood is needed to warg/ride a dragon, Bran is a candidate because he shares the blood of his teacher, BR.

 

While others look for Jon Snow to be the representative of fire and ice, and he likely is, Bran as well may be a composite of ice and fire through his connection and marriage with BR and all the other greenseers who have come before him.

 

This seems like it goes along with what kissedbyfire was stating in my reply above. You two smarty-pants may be on to something about the blood in the trees thing.

Maybe Bran will find an actual living "gigantic bat" and be able to ride that? I have never been a big fan of Bran warging a dragon, especially if he has to sit unconscious on the ground because if the dragon flies too far then bond could break (?) or he could risk his human body being killed and then his soul lost inside that dragon until he fades away. (Oh goodness... that is not too "bittersweet" is it? ) But if Bran were to have his powers grow, and he stays conscious and has a special saddle made like he had for Dancer, and he partakes a little Bloodraven blood, then maybe???

[The Fattest Leech]

Ok. This is a duplicate question that I asked on the small questions thread and realized only after hitting "submit" that I should have asked it here. Please pardon the dupe if you have already seen this

Who knows Jon is a warg? I can't remember them all.

I know he, himself, barely acknowledges it until about halfway through Dance.

Orell did. Varamyr did. Harma did?

Val possibly. Mel possibly.

Borroq I think yes?

Mance?

What about Bran and Arya and Rickon? I don't think we have had Jon ever mention knowing his siblings being able to warg their wolves.