Moments of Foreshadowing v.11

[The Fattest Leech]

11 minutes ago, BricksAndSparrows said:

LOL. Totally.

My favorite chapter of all the books is probably Sansa's last chapter in A Storm of Swords.

The scene where Petyr is helping with the Snowcastle is fantastic. I can see the general message coming from that part, Petyr is obviously grooming her, and influencing her, but i wonder if there is a more specific message we are supposed to take from that seen.

I wonder if Sansa will one day spike a Giants head on the walls of Winterfell.

Here is a thought... Maybe it will be Tyrion's. A little toy giant.

"My giant of Lannister."

In GRRM;s letter to his agent (or Publisher, I can't recall.) he talks about Tyrion burning Winterfell. Obviously that was in a early draft.

I'm half kidding about the Tyrion/Giant thing. But I am really curious about that snowcastle scene.

Im wondering if the snow castle scene is actually linked more to this bit of information, and not to Sansa alone... Definite Winds spoilers, so read only if you want 

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

6 hours ago, BricksAndSparrows said:

How about this one...

When Jon and Sam take their vows, and they discover the bodies of Othor and Jaffer Flowers. The chapter ends with Ghost trotting up with a dead hand in his Mouth. In the very next chapter, Ned makes his move in the Throne room and is betrayed by...everyone.

Nice. I don't recall that one being mentioned before. 

[TheDemonicStark]

I wonder if how Samwell Tarly getting Jon elected Lord Commander to the Night's Watch is an indication that he could become Jon's Hand of the King.

Just a thought, but I like that idea a lot.

[BricksAndSparrows]

I noticed this one this weekend while reading aDwD:

*I don't have this verbatim, but if someone can add the quote it would be much appreciated.

Septon Cellador, Othel Yarwick, and Bowen Marsh come to confront Jon after he releases Val. At one point, GRRM describes all three men as they react to something Jon says. All in the same paragraph, one after the other. GRRM starts with the Septon, the next is Yarwick, and the last is Marsh. And then immediately after, Mormont's raven says:

"Corn, Corn. Die."

Spoiler

I might be me over thinking this. Now that I'm typing it out it sounds silly. But Marsh is the only one that participates in Jon's murder. So corn for the Septon, corn for Yarwick, and Die for Marsh.

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

5 minutes ago, BricksAndSparrows said:

I noticed this one this weekend while reading aDwD:

*I don't have this verbatim, but if someone can add the quote it would be much appreciated.

Septon Cellador, Othel Yarwick, and Bowen Marsh come to confront Jon after he releases Val. At one point, GRRM describes all three men as they react to something Jon says. All in the same paragraph, one after the other. GRRM starts with the Septon, the next is Yarwick, and the last is Marsh. And then immediately after, Mormont's raven says:

"Corn, Corn. Die."

  Hide contents

I might be me over thinking this. Now that I'm typing it out it sounds silly. But Marsh is the only one that participates in Jon's murder. So corn for the Septon, corn for Yarwick, and Die for Marsh.

 

Well, the other two fellows could have been involved, if not directly involved in the actual stabbing. There was a guy here who put together a whole corn code. It was really detailed, but The George debunked it. 

[BricksAndSparrows]

2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Well, the other two fellows could have been involved, if not directly involved in the actual stabbing. There was a guy here who put together a whole corn code. It was really detailed, but The George debunked it. 

Corn code. Gotta Love it.

You know, there are all these theories about Bran, going back in time and warging people while he is there. I'm pretty hesitant to buy into any of those, but if Bran was going back and warging, I think Mormont's raven is the most likely candidate.

[Lost Melnibonean]

This passage is from the morning of the purple wedding...

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That was such a sweet dream, Sansa thought drowsily. She had been back in Winterfell, running through the godswood with her Lady. Her father had been there, and her brothers, all of them warm and safe. If only dreaming could make it so . . .

...

She threw back the shutters and shivered as gooseprickles rose along her arms. There were clouds massing in the eastern sky, pierced by shafts of sunlight. They look like two huge castles afloat in the morning sky. Sansa could see their walls of tumbled stone, their mighty keeps and barbicans. Wispy banners swirled from atop their towers and reached for the fast-fading stars. The sun was coming up behind them, and she watched them go from black to grey to a thousand shades of rose and gold and crimson. Soon the wind mushed them together, and there was only one castle where there had been two.

She heard the door open as her maids brought the hot water for her bath. ... "Come see," she told them. "There's a castle in the sky."

 

Sansa IV, Storm 59

The Iron Throne was black when Robert graced it, then grey when Robert went off hunting only to return to die. After that, it was crimson and gold, but Joffrey had to wed Margaery in green and gold to secure it, and House Lannister and House Tyrell became one, with the sun from Dorne coming up behind them. That sounds like the three-judge panel that heard Tyrion’s trial. Of course the Joffrey-Margaery wedding ended when Sansa aided Olenna’s murder of Joffery, and Tyrion took the fall.

So, at the beginning of the first of the two chapters that comprise the purple wedding, The George paints for us a scene that foreshadows Joffrey’s murder at the end of the second chapter.

And then we hear from Brella...

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"A castle, is it?" Brella had to squint. "That tower's tumbling over, looks like. It's all ruins, that is."

Sansa IV, Storm 59

So, The grand alliance of Houses Lannister and Tyrell will fall.

ETA

Hey... Wasn't the valonqar "armored like the sun, golden and beautiful"? 

[Lost Melnibonean]

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Tyrion could hear the commons shouting out King Joffrey's name. In three years that cruel boy will be a man, ruling in his own right . . . and every dwarf with half his wits will be a long way from King's Landing. Oldtown, perhaps. Or even the Free Cities. He had always had a yen to see the Titan of Braavos. Perhaps that would please Sansa. Gently, he spoke of Braavos, and met a wall of sullen courtesy as icy and unyielding as the Wall he had walked once in the north. It made him weary. Then and now.

Tyrion VIII, Storm 60

Tyrion will go to Braavos, and he will learn where whores go...

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 7/23/2016 at 8:04 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

This is from Sansas escape from Kings Landing...

Sansa V, Storm

I believe there is a reason the George described the ships figurehead so clearly, a merman with a golden crown blowing on a great seashell horn. Seashells are very closely associated with House Westerling. But I dont see any connection there. Davos at one points describes a sound like the faint whisper of the sea in seashell. Now, I tend to think that the George at least tries to write very carefully, with many phrases and passages relating to others. But in this instance, I think the George merely chose a poetic phrase to describe what Davos was hearing. But seashells were used back in Game to describe Stanniss activity on Draganstone...

Eddard XV, Game

So outside of House Westerling we seashells associated with Davos and Stannis, but really, what do we have? Not much if anything. But in Dance, we hit a lode, first when Asha is taken by Stannis outside Deepwood Motte...

And then we hear from Patchface shortly before Jon is attacked by Bowen Marsh...

These two uses paint pictures nearly identical to the figurehead observed by Sansa, merlings or mermaids blowing seashells. Sansas merman was the figurehead of a ship, a sort of herald, and Ashas merlings and Patchfaces mermaids were clearly heralds. If you think this is all coincidental, you can stop reading now.

The principal practice of the Drowned God religion referenced by Asha is to drown people in the sea and then resurrect them so they can rise harder and stronger. Patchface himself apparently drowned but washed ashore and was resurrected (albeit softer and dumber). But in both cases we have people drowning under the waves, in the Drowned Gods watery halls. And Sansas ship, well thats a Braavosi trading galley. Petyr, whose family originally hailed from Braavos, hired it to go to Gulltown, when the Lord of Harrenhal was dispatched to woo Lady Lysa in the Vale. Its also the ship Petyr uses to smuggle Sansa out of Kings Landing, and later, it returns to Gulltown from Braavos, and Petyrs man Oswell learns some interesting news.

Most crowns, like the one that adorns the Merling Kings figurehead, are golden, including Stanniss. Stannis has just obtained the backing of the Iron Bank of Braavos, and we have reason to suspect he intends to effect a ruse in the battle against Houses Bolton and Frey. Moreover, we know that House Manderly, which has completed a small armada, has pledged to aid Stannis if Stanniss man Davos recovers Rickon, and we know that Manderly is associated with mermen. And finally, we know that Aurane Waters, the Bastard of Driftmark, who fought for Stannis and tricked Cersei into building ships he later appropriated to set himself up in the Stepstones as the Lord of the Waters, is associated with seahorses.

Now, heres what I suspect will happen. Word of Stanniss defeat and death will spread, thus marching into the sea, but Manderly will triumph over Bolton. Stannis will then join Auranes power (riding seahorses) to Manderlys power (mermen blowing seashells) to threaten Aegon and/or Daenerys.

And they'll be joined by the river lords still allied with North...

Jon XIII, Dance

But not the Brackens...

The Riverlands, TWOIAF

Stannis's host of Nothmen and Rivermen will array for battle at the Trident. Their numbers will be swollen by Northern childless and homeless men, unwed men, old men, and younger sons coming for war, for adventure and plunder, and for a glorious death to spare their kin beyond the Neck one more mouth to feed (just like Creegan Stark's host in the Dance of the Dragons). Daenerys will meet them...

However, I think rather than burn this host she will take it for her own to fight Aegon. Recall how Stannis took Renly's power for his own...

Catelyn IV, Clash

We know that the North fought on the black side in the Dance of Dragons. And I seem to recall an SSM where the George said the North tended to be loyalist after Torrhen knelt (or perhaps it was a post by Ran). We know that Daenerys is going to slay the lie that is Stannis or his claim. Perhaps Drogo will remove Stannis and Daenerys will claim Stannis's forces the way Stannis claimed Renly's.

Daenerys I, Dance 2

Davos V, Storm 54

Ironically, Tyrion will command the combined forces of the North the Riverlands, and Dragonstone...

 

 

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"I assumed you would be off leading a Lannister host against some wicked foe."

"A host of dragons and stags."

 

Tyrion VIII, Storm 60

 

[Lord Wraith]

On 7/24/2016 at 6:46 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

@Lost Melnibonean I don't think you have enough proof here. Let me help.

Sam is in Oldtown to train a s a maester and the third link is generally the copper link, which is astronomy. The cooper bands on the horn are broken and it's a good thing Sam is in a place that trains its people to forge metals and also has a library that holds secrets from hundreds of years past. Sam does love to read and learn about past, as Jon also commanded him to do.

This happens in AFFC. The prologue of Feast also gives us some insight to the upcoming use of copper at the Citadel.

One funny line that Leo says is, "I understand you won your copper link. I'll drink to that."" which is kinda funny because Jon told Sam to make a drinking horn out the the broken horn he gave him. Wouldn't it be funny if Sam fixed the horn, filled it with ale, tried to drink from it (incorrectly) and accidentally blew the damn thing and woke an ice dragon? Hey, I can dream!

A Feast for Crows - Prologue

Perhaps it was the fearsomely strong cider—he had not come here to drink, but Alleras had been buying to celebrate his copper link, and guilt had made him thirsty—but it almost sounded as if the nightingale were trilling gold for iron, gold for iron, gold for iron.

 

...and then this...

"Mutton," muttered Mollander. He sounded none too pleased about it. "We shared a haunch of boiled mutton."

"I'm certain it was filling." Leo turned to Alleras. "A lord's son should be open-handed, Sphinx. I understand you won your copper link. I'll drink to that."

Alleras smiled back at him. "I only buy for friends. And I am no lord's son, I've told you that. My mother was a trader."

 

A Clash of Kings - Jon V

It must have been buried for a reason.

He had made a dagger for Grenn as well, and another for the Lord Commander. The warhorn he had given to Sam. On closer examination the horn had proved cracked, and even after he had cleaned all the dirt out, Jon had been unable to get any sound from it. The rim was chipped as well, but Sam liked old things, even worthless old things. "Make a drinking horn out of it," Jon told him, "and every time you take a drink you'll remember how you ranged beyond the Wall, all the way to the Fist of the First Men." He gave Sam a spearhead and a dozen arrowheads as well, and passed the rest out among his other friends for luck.

 

Also the Ice Dragon is a constellation in the North, so plays back in to the Astronomy. Also Old Nan talks about Ice dragons so that has to count for something.

On 7/25/2016 at 11:27 AM, BricksAndSparrows said:

How about this one...

When Jon and Sam take their vows, and they discover the bodies of Othor and Jaffer Flowers. The chapter ends with Ghost trotting up with a dead hand in his Mouth. In the very next chapter, Ned makes his move in the Throne room and is betrayed by...everyone.

Nicely caught.

On 7/25/2016 at 0:42 PM, BricksAndSparrows said:

LOL. Totally.

My favorite chapter of all the books is probably Sansa's last chapter in A Storm of Swords.

The scene where Petyr is helping with the Snowcastle is fantastic. I can see the general message coming from that part, Petyr is obviously grooming her, and influencing her, but i wonder if there is a more specific message we are supposed to take from that seen.

I wonder if Sansa will one day spike a Giants head on the walls of Winterfell.

Here is a thought... Maybe it will be Tyrion's. A little toy giant.

"My giant of Lannister."

In GRRM;s letter to his agent (or Publisher, I can't recall.) he talks about Tyrion burning Winterfell. Obviously that was in a early draft.

I'm half kidding about the Tyrion/Giant thing. But I am really curious about that snowcastle scene.

I have thought the same thing on a few occasions. Also Tyrion is referred to as a gargoyle in every book and some speculate he still might have greyscale making him a stone man.

I just reread the publisher letter and yes Martin does say that Tyrion would burn Winterfell and Martin is so fond of referring to Tyrion as his favorite villain. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

9 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Also the Ice Dragon is a constellation in the North, so plays back in to the Astronomy. Also Old Nan talks about Ice dragons so that has to count for something.

Nicely caught.

I have thought the same thing on a few occasions. Also Tyrion is referred to as a gargoyle in every book and some speculate he still might have greyscale making him a stone man.

I just reread the publisher letter and yes Martin does say that Tyrion would burn Winterfell and Martin is so fond of referring to Tyrion as his favorite villain. 

At one point Tyrion says his mouth will be the death of him, and if he did contract greyscale, it went in through is mouth in the water. Didn't some character suggest that greyscale had been known to attack the body from inside? 

[Lord Wraith]

13 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

At one point Tyrion says his mouth will be the death of him, and if he did contract greyscale, it went in through is mouth in the water. Didn't some character suggest that greyscale had been known to attack the body from inside? 

I think I remember hearing that along with the theory that Tyrion would loose his tongue from it. Or start turning to stone from the inside out.

[Fire Eater]

"Whilst we await Lord Walder's death, there is another matter," said Aurane Waters. "The Golden Company has broken its contract with Myr. Around the docks I've heard men say that Lord Stannis has hired them and is bringing them across the sea."
"What would he pay them with?" asked Merryweather. "Snow? They are called the Golden Company. How much gold does Stannis have?"

Could this hint that the GC will eventually back Jon when R+L=J is revealed? They get a Targaryen king who is also a black dragon due to being in the NW. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

30 minutes ago, Fire Eater said:

"Whilst we await Lord Walder's death, there is another matter," said Aurane Waters. "The Golden Company has broken its contract with Myr. Around the docks I've heard men say that Lord Stannis has hired them and is bringing them across the sea."
"What would he pay them with?" asked Merryweather. "Snow? They are called the Golden Company. How much gold does Stannis have?"

Could this hint that the GC will eventually back to Jon when R+L=J is revealed? They get a Targaryenking who is also a black dragon due to being in the NW. 

I don't buy it. Nice to see you again. 

[Isobel Harper]

37 minutes ago, Fire Eater said:

"Whilst we await Lord Walder's death, there is another matter," said Aurane Waters. "The Golden Company has broken its contract with Myr. Around the docks I've heard men say that Lord Stannis has hired them and is bringing them across the sea."
"What would he pay them with?" asked Merryweather. "Snow? They are called the Golden Company. How much gold does Stannis have?"

Could this hint that the GC will eventually back to Jon when R+L=J is revealed? They get a Targaryenking who is also a black dragon due to being in the NW. 

I could see this happening, yes.  Jon Connington in particular would be desperate to fight for Rhaegar's other son if/when Aegon dies.  Nice catch on the "black dragon."

[WatIsHypeMayNeverDie]

In the middle of A Storm of Swords, in Jaime's dream, he had a conversation with his dead mother Joanna. This dream happens while Jaime is lying on a Weirwood tree. Take note for later that Tywin married his first cousin, also a Lannister:

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She raised a pale soft hand and pushed her hood back. “Have you forgotten me?”

Can I forget someone I never knew? The words caught in his throat. He did know her, but it had been so long…

“Will you forget your own lord father too? I wonder if you ever knew him, truly.” Her eyes were green, her hair spun gold. He could not tell how old she was. Fifteen, he thought, or fifty. She climbed the steps to stand above the bier. “He (Tywin) could never abide being laughed at. That was the thing he hated most.”

"Who are you?” He had to hear her say it.

“The question is, who are you?”

“This is a dream.”

“Is it?... We all dream of things we cannot have. Tywin dreamed that his son would be a great knight, that his daughter would be a queen. He dreamed they would be so strong and brave and beautiful that no one would ever laugh at them.”

Cersei's Dream in A Feast for Crows:

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She dreamt she sat the Iron Throne, high above them all. The courtiers were brightly colored mice below.  Great lords and proud ladies knelt before her.  Bold young knights laid their swords at her feet and pleaded for her favors, and the queen smiled down at at them.  **Until the dwarf appeared as if from nowhere, pointing at her and howling with laughter.**  The **lords and ladies began to chuckle too**, hiding their smiles behind their hands. Only then did *the queen realize she was naked*.

Horrified, she tried to cover herself with her hands. The barbs and blades of the Iron Throne bit into her flesh as she crouched to hide her shame.  Blood ran red down her legs, as steel teeth gnawed at her buttocks. When she tried to stand, her foot slipped through a gap in the twisted metal. The more she struggled the more the throne engulfed her, tearing chunks of flesh from her breasts and belly, slicing at her arms and legs until they were slick and red, glistening.

And all the while her brother capered below, laughing.

A dream, that’s all it was, a dream. I drank too much last night, these fears are *only humors born of wine. I will be the one laughing, come dusk. My children will be safe, Tommen’s throne will be secure, and my twisted valonqar will be short a head and rotting.

Tyrion's dream in A Dance with Dragons:

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That night Tyrion Lannister dreamed of a battle that turned the hills of Westeros as red as blood. He was in the midst of it, dealing death with an axe as big as he was, fighting side by side with Barristan the Bold and Bittersteel as dragons wheeled across the sky above them. In the dream he had two heads, both noseless. His father led the enemy, so he slew him once again. Then he killed his brother Jaime, hacking at his face until it was a red ruin, laughing every time he struck a blow. Only when the fight was finished did he realise that his second head was weeping

Tyrion will turn the Rains of Castamere narrative on Tywin Lannister by wiping out what is left of his own family, while inheriting and owning Casterly Rock.

[Fire Eater]

15 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I don't buy it. Nice to see you again. 

Jon is Rhaegar's son, and after fighting against Dany in the second Dance, he would be their one chance to return home for a permanent stay. Nor do I think Connington would abandon Rhaegar's last remaining son. And thank you, likewise. 

He returned to Hoster Tully's chair, pulled over the map of the Trident, and flattened it beneath his golden hand. Where would I go, if I were the Blackfish?
"Lord Commander?" A guardsman stood in the open door. "Lady Westerling and her daughter are without, as you commanded."

I think that may be a hint that the Blackfish will attack the convoy transporting the Westerlings and Edmure.

[Lost Melnibonean]

5 hours ago, Fire Eater said:

1. Jon is Rhaegar's son, and after fighting against Dany in the second Dance, he would be their one chance to return home for a permanent stay. Nor do I think Connington would abandon Rhaegar's last remaining son. And thank you, likewise. 

2. He returned to Hoster Tully's chair, pulled over the map of the Trident, and flattened it beneath his golden hand. Where would I go, if I were the Blackfish?
"Lord Commander?" A guardsman stood in the open door. "Lady Westerling and her daughter are without, as you commanded."

I think that may be a hint that the Blackfish will attack the convoy transporting the Westerlings and Edmure.

1. I don't think Jon survives like enough to meet Jon. 2. I couldn't agree more. 

[Lord Wraith]

The Company of the Rose is a sellsword company of men (and women supposedly) that fled the North rather than bend the knee to the Targaryens. Any chance they will make an appearance in our story to support the new king or queen of the North? I know Jon shares some of Lyanna's winter rose symbolism. Sansa's red rose from Loras reappears a few times in the novels. Would be interesting to say the least.

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or the Company of the Rose, formed by wild men (and, according to some accounts, women) from the North who refused to bend the knee, after Torrhen Stark gave up his crown, and instead chose exile across the narrow sea.

Robb has reforged the crown of the North and I would imagine that Lady Stoneheart will crown someone in Winds.

[BricksAndSparrows]

I don't have the exact wording on this one, but in aGoT, Daenerys promises Jorah that one day she will give him a sword. It reminds me of when the Smiling Knight tells Ser Arthur Dayne that he wants his sword, and Ser Arthur says: "Than you shall have it,"  before killing him.

So I predict that Dany will kill Jorah, and her promise is foreshadowing of this...