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Lost Melnibonean

Moments of Foreshadowing v.11

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Ahead, the alley bent. Somehow Brienne had taken a wrong turn. She found herself in a dead end, a small muddy yard where three pigs were rooting round a low stone well. One squealed at the sight of her, and an old woman drawing water looked her up and down suspiciously.

Brienne II, Feast 9

And this...

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Her old master-at-arms had always questioned whether she was hard enough for battle. "You have a man's strength in your arms," Ser Goodwin had said to her, more than once, "but your heart is as soft as any maid's. It is one thing to train in the yard with a blunted sword in hand, and another to drive a foot of sharpened steel into a man's gut and see the light go out of his eyes." To toughen her, Ser Goodwin used to send her to her father's butcher to slaughter lambs and suckling pigs. The piglets squealed and the lambs screamed like frightened children. By the time the butchering was done Brienne had been blind with tears, her clothes so bloody that she had given them to her maid to burn. But Ser Goodwin still had doubts. "A piglet is a piglet. It is different with a man. When I was a squire young as you, I had a friend who was strong and quick and agile, a champion in the yard. We all knew that one day he would be a splendid knight. Then war came to the Stepstones. I saw my friend drive his foeman to his knees and knock the axe from his hand, but when he might have finished he held back for half a heartbeat. In battle half a heartbeat is a lifetime. The man slipped out his dirk and found a chink in my friend's armor. His strength, his speed, his valor, all his hard-won skill . . . it was worth less than a mummer's fart, because he flinched from killing. Remember that, girl."

Brienne IV, Feast 20

Foreshadow Brienne’s showdown with Pyg, Timeon, and Shagwell at The Whispers.

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“I had bad dreams,” Shireen told him. “About the dragons. They were coming to eat me.”


The child had been plagued by nightmares as far back as Maester Cressen could recall. “We have talked of this before,” he said gently. “The dragons cannot come to life. They are carved of stone, child. In olden days, our island was the westernmost outpost of the great Freehold of Valyria. It was the Valyrians who raised this citadel, and they had ways of shaping stone since lost to us. A castle must have towers wherever two walls meet at an angle, for defense. The Valyrians fashioned these towers in the shape of dragons to make their fortress seem more fearsome, just as they crowned their walls with a thousand gargoyles instead of simple crenellations.” He took her small pink hand in his own frail spotted one and gave it a gentle squeeze. “So you see, there is nothing to fear.”

Shireen was unconvinced. “What about the thing in the sky? Dalla and Matrice were talking by the well, and Dalla said she heard the red woman tell Mother that it was dragonsbreath. If the dragons are breathing, doesn’t that mean they are coming to life?”

The red woman, Maester Cressen thought sourly. Ill enough that she’s filled the head of the mother with her madness, must she poison the daughter’s dreams as well? He would have a stern word with Dalla, warn her not to spread such tales. “The thing in the sky is a comet, sweet child. A star with a tail, lost in the heavens. It will be gone soon enough, never to be seen again in our lifetimes. Watch and see.”


Shireen gave a brave little nod. “Mother said the white raven means it’s not summer anymore.”


“That is so, my lady. The white ravens fly only from the Citadel.” Cressen’s fingers went to the chain about his neck, each link forged from a different metal, each symbolizing his mastery of another branch of learning; the maester’s collar, mark of his order. In the pride of his youth, he had worn it easily, but now it seemed heavy to him, the metal cold against his skin. “They are larger than other ravens, and more clever, bred to carry only the most important messages. This one came to tell us that the Conclave has met, considered the reports and measurements made by maesters all over the realm, and declared this great summer done at last. Ten years, two turns, and sixteen days it lasted, the longest summer in living memory.”


“Will it get cold now?” Shireen was a summer child, and had never known true cold.

“In time,” Cressen replied. “If the gods are good, they will grant us a warm autumn and bountiful harvests, so we might prepare for the winter to come.” The smallfolk said that a long summer meant an even longer winter, but the maester saw no reason to frighten the child with such tales.

Patchface rang his bells. “It is always summer under the sea,” he intoned. “The merwives wear nennymoans in their hair and weave gowns of silver seaweed. I know, I know, oh, oh, oh.”

more...

(ACOK: Prologue)

Right after conversation just when Cressen was hoping that the gods would give them a warm autumn and bountiful harvest (pfft!) so that they would prepare for the winter to come, knowingly that smallfolk said that a long summer meant an even longer winter (longer than ten years, two turns and sixteen days), Patchpace started his standard catchy song.

Cressen was denied the warm and bountiful autumn. He knew an even longer winter was to come but didn't dare mentioning. The cold Shireen (or anyone) had ever experienced before was coming. He might be wrong about the poor Shireen's dream where she was eaten by the stone dragons too. Do you think he'd also be wrong about the red comet once it came back?

Might be that Shireen would see the red comet again once it orbits around the sun and comes back, as she is being sacrificed to wake the stone dragons when the Others marches to the Wall.

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Dany could play as well. "I am only a young girl and know little of such things, but older, wiser men tell me that to hold Meereen I must control its hinterlands, all the land west of Lhazar as far south as the Yunkish hills."

"Your hinterlands are not precious to me. Your person is. Should any ill befall you, this world would lose its savor."

"My lord is good to care so much, but I am well protected." Dany gestured toward where Barristan Selmy stood with one hand resting on his sword hilt. "Barristan the Bold, they call him. Twice he has saved me from assassins." (Daenerys III, ADWD)

This could easily be nothing, but I couldn't help but notice that "savor" is only one letter off from "savior".

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“A Braavosi trading galley called at Pentos on her way back from the Jade Sea. The Treasure carried cloves and saffron, jet and jade, scarlet samite, green silk … and the grey death. We slew her oarsmen as they came ashore and burned the ship at anchor, but the rats crept down the oars and paddled to the quay on cold stone feet. The plague took two thousand before it ran its course.” Magister Illyrio closed the locket. “I keep her hands in my bedchamber. Her hands that were so soft …”

Tyrion II, Dance 5

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Garin was in a lively mood and entertained them with the latest tales from the Planky Town at the mouth of the Greenblood, where the orphans of the river came to trade with the carracks, cogs, and galleys from across the narrow sea. If the sailors could be believed, the east was seething with wonders and terrors: a slave revolt in Astapor, dragons in Qarth, grey plague in Yi Ti. A new corsair king had risen in the Basilisk Isles and raided Tall Trees Town, and in Qohor followers of the red priests had rioted and tried to burn down the Black Goat. “And the Golden Company broke its contract with Myr, just as the Myrmen were about to go to war with Lys.”

The Queenmaker, Feast 21

Perhaps the grey plague is returning from the east? If so, who might be its principal victim? 

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They were fed—hard cheese and fresh-baked bread and milk to break their fast, roast chicken and greens at midday, and a late supper of beef and barley stew—but the servants who brought the meals would not answer Sansa’s questions. That evening, some women brought her clothes from the Tower of the Hand, and some of Jeyne’s things as well, but they seemed nearly as frightened as Jeyne, and when she tried to talk to them, they fled from her as if she had the grey plague. The guards outside the door still refused to let them leave the room.

Sansa IV, Game 51

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Sansa slipped in among them, murmuring greetings as she worked her way toward the front. She recognized black-skinned Jalabhar Xho, gloomy Ser Aron Santagar, the Redwyne twins Horror and Slobber … only none of them seemed to recognize her. Or if they did, they shied away as if she had the grey plague. Sickly Lord Gyles covered his face at her approach and feigned a fit of coughing, and when funny drunken Ser Dontos started to hail her, Ser Balon Swann whispered in his ear and he turned away.

Sansa V, Game 57

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50 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Tyrion II, Dance 5

The Queenmaker, Feast 21

Perhaps the grey plague is returning from the east? If so, who might be its principal victim? 

Sansa IV, Game 51

Sansa V, Game 57

Sansa can't get 'the grey plague'; she is the grey plague.  She's a Stark -- and a formidable one at that -- and Winter is coming!  (and besides, she still has to dispatch Littlefinger the tepid grey moth, which GRRM is surprisingly loathe to do -- he's very attached to his friend Littlefinger of the grey recesses of the American Dream -- so to conclude, I don't see Sansa dying any time soon).

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21 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Tyrion II, Dance 5

The Queenmaker, Feast 21

Perhaps the grey plague is returning from the east? If so, who might be its principal victim? 

Sansa IV, Game 51

Sansa V, Game 57

Perhaps that is not frostbite that Jeyne fArya Poole has? And now it is in the tight and crowded confines of Stannis' men/ Castle Black (if taken there), where it loves to live in cold and damp weather.

Nevermind. I mis-remembered which disease had been discovered in Kings Landing. It was the pale mare/bloody flux, not the grey plague. I thought perhaps JP could have gotten it there and carried it with her from KL to the north. Oh well:dunno:

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33 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Sansa can't get 'the grey plague'; she is the grey plague.  She's a Stark -- and a formidable one at that -- and Winter is coming!  (and besides, she still has to dispatch Littlefinger the tepid grey moth, which GRRM is surprisiingly loathe to do -- he's very attached to his friend Littlefinger of the grey recesses of the American Dream -- so to conclude, I don't see Sansa dying any time soon).

Arya, not Sansa, is the maid that will slay the savage giant. 

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39 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Arya, not Sansa, is the maid that will slay the savage giant. 

Pity, if you're right.  Arya has no relationship to LF whatsoever, rendering LF's downfall singularly impersonal and therefore unsatisfying.  LF's motivation to destroy the Starks was made so malignant precisely because it was so personal for him, not merely about ambition.  Perhaps it's another example of GRRM forcing the issue to run counter to expectations, just to be 'surprising' e.g. making Joffrey accountable for Bran's assassination attempt, although that makes little sense at all.

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9 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Pity, if you're right.  Arya has no relationship to LF whatsoever, rendering LF's downfall singularly impersonal and therefore unsatisfying.  LF's motivation to destroy the Starks was made so malignant precisely because it was so personal for him, not merely about ambition.  Perhaps it's another example of GRRM forcing the issue to run counter to expectations, just to be 'surprising' e.g. making Joffrey accountable for Bran's assassination attempt, although that makes little sense at all.

Oh, I disagree... Let's say Arya discovers Petyr's betrayal of her father and his involvement in the downfall of her house, and then let's say she discovers her sister pretending to be Petyr's daughter. That would make her actions very personal, and possibly, very satisfying. 

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12 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Pity, if you're right.  Arya has no relationship to LF whatsoever, rendering LF's downfall singularly impersonal and therefore unsatisfying.  LF's motivation to destroy the Starks was made so malignant precisely because it was so personal for him, not merely about ambition.  Perhaps it's another example of GRRM forcing the issue to run counter to expectations, just to be 'surprising' e.g. making Joffrey accountable for Bran's assassination attempt, although that makes little sense at all.

 

2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Oh, I disagree... Let's say Arya discovers Petyr's betrayal of her father and his involvement in the downfall of her house, and then let's say she discovers her sister pretending to be Petyr's daughter. That would make her actions very personal, and possibly, very satisfying. 

In my own personal opinion, I think this is something the sisters are going somehow do together... the first time they truly work together most like.

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2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Oh, I disagree... Let's say Arya discovers Petyr's betrayal of her father and his involvement in the downfall of her house, and then let's say she discovers her sister pretending to be Petyr's daughter. That would make her actions very personal, and possibly, very satisfying. 

You have a point there.  Let's hope Arya in her righteous wrath doesn't end up sticking her sister with the pointy end!

3 minutes ago, Isobel Harper said:

 

In my own personal opinion, I think this is something the sisters are going somehow do together... the first time they truly work together most like.

That would be the most heart-warming solution!   From a narrative symmetry point of view, I'd like Sansa to save her sister's life to make up for not standing up for her at the Trident.

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56 minutes ago, Isobel Harper said:

 

In my own personal opinion, I think this is something the sisters are going somehow do together... the first time they truly work together most like.

Unless one of 'em dies in the process, that sounds like too much sweet and not enough bitter. 

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52 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

You have a point there.  Let's hope Arya in her righteous wrath doesn't end up sticking her sister with the pointy end!

She won't...

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He held Needle out to her, hilt first. "Here."

She looked at the sword with wonder in her eyes. For a moment she was afraid to touch it, afraid that if she reached for it it would be snatched away again, but then her father said, "Go on, it's yours," and she took it in her hand.

"I can keep it?" she said. "For true?"

"For true." He smiled. "If I took it away, no doubt I'd find a morningstar hidden under your pillow within the fortnight. Try not to stab your sister, whatever the provocation."

"I won't. I promise." Arya clutched Needle tightly to her chest as her father took his leave.

Arya II, Game 22

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1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Unless one of 'em dies in the process, that sounds like too much sweet and not enough bitter. 

Mmm, from our point of view, we'll be glad that LF finally got his comeuppance.  Sansa though... she'll be heart broken when she discovers her father figure betrayed her.  (I'm seeing a potential parallel if/when R+L is revealed to Jon.)

Actually I have a pretty good idea of how Sansa might turn on LF.  She wears Vale colors at Darry during Arya's "trial" and during Ned's execution - they foreshadow one event involving LF.  LF will count on Sansa to stand up for him, but she won't be there for him.  

It fits her role as Idunn quite nicely. Idunn is a figure of death - albeit subtly.  Idunn is a fertility goddess.  She and her apples bring life.  When she goes missing from Asgard, the gods become mortal.  That is, she can WITHHOLD life and bring death.  Sansa will withhold the Mother's Mercy and, therefore, cause LF to die.

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3 hours ago, Isobel Harper said:

Mmm, from our point of view, we'll be glad that LF finally got his comeuppance.  Sansa though... she'll be heart broken when she discovers her father figure betrayed her.  (I'm seeing a potential parallel if/when R+L is revealed to Jon.)

Actually I have a pretty good idea of how Sansa might turn on LF.  She wears Vale colors at Darry during Arya's "trial" and during Ned's execution - they foreshadow one event involving LF.  LF will count on Sansa to stand up for him, but she won't be there for him.  

It fits her role as Idunn quite nicely. Idunn is a figure of death - albeit subtly.  Idunn is a fertility goddess.  She and her apples bring life.  When she goes missing from Asgard, the gods become mortal.  That is, she can WITHHOLD life and bring death.  Sansa will withhold the Mother's Mercy and, therefore, cause LF to die.

I noriced those colors too. These three quotes foreshadow Petyr taking Sansa to the Vale...

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The Arryns are descended from the Kings of Mountain and Vale, one of the oldest and purest lines of Andal nobility. Their sigil is the moon-and-falcon, white upon a sky blue field.

Appendix, Game

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Petyr had been a small boy, and he had grown into a small man, an inch or two shorter than Catelyn, slender and quick, with the sharp features she remembered and the same laughing grey-green eyes. He had a little pointed chin beard now, and threads of silver in his dark hair, though he was still shy of thirty. They went well with the silver mockingbird that fastened his cloak. Even as a child, he had always loved his silver.

Catelyn IV, Game

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His eldest daughter stepped forward hesitantly. She was dressed in blue velvets trimmed with white, a silver chain around her neck.

Eddard III, Game

Now compare that bit with this bit...

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"A dream delayed, no more." Dany's tight silver collar was chafing against her throat. She unfastened it and flung it aside.

Daenerys III, Clash, after being rejected by the Pureborn

So Petyr will be rejected by, or reject, Daenerys and throw in with Aegon. 

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Totally random speculation and I am not even sure if this is the thread for it, but, could the Greyjoy words "We Do Not Sow" be a moment of foreshadowing to Euron or Vic not controlling or riding a dragon??? I know there are some other possibilities as to why they could not, but I wonder if the fact that George added this bit of information in TPatQ actually gives a hint.

At one point during the Dance of Dragons, there were too many dragons compared to riders (kinda like now). So to help his mother Rhaenyera, Prince Jacaryes held a tournament called the Sowing to test for any other dragon riders from the pool of dragonseed that existed. If I remember correctly, the tournament was a disaster and no new dragon riders came from it :frown5:

So, could the Greyjoy words mean We do not ride dragons?

  • Prince Jacaerys announced (with the prompting of Mushroom, if his Testimony is to be believed) that any man or woman who could ride one of these dragons would be ennobled.
  • Even on Dragonstone, long Queen Rhaenyra’s seat and stronghold, they found many who misliked the queen for reasons both good and ill. Some grieved for brothers, sons, and fathers slain during the Sowing or...

 

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3 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Totally random speculation and I am not even sure if this is the thread for it, but, could the Greyjoy words "We Dot Sow" be a moment of foreshadowing to Euron or Vic not controlling or riding a dragon??? I know there are some other possibilities as to why they could not, but I wonder if the fact that George added this bit of information in TPatQ actually gives a hint.

At one point during the Dance of Dragons, there were too many dragons compared to riders (kinda like now). So to help his mother Rhaenyera, Prince Jacaryes held a tournament called the Sowing to test for any other dragon riders from the pool of dragonseed that existed. If I remember correctly, the tournament was a disaster and no new dragon riders came from it :frown5:

So, could the Greyjoy words mean We do not ride dragons?

  • Prince Jacaerys announced (with the prompting of Mushroom, if his Testimony is to be believed) that any man or woman who could ride one of these dragons would be ennobled.
  • Even on Dragonstone, long Queen Rhaenyra’s seat and stronghold, they found many who misliked the queen for reasons both good and ill. Some grieved for brothers, sons, and fathers slain during the Sowing or...

 

Nice. 

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5 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Totally random speculation and I am not even sure if this is the thread for it, but, could the Greyjoy words "We Do Not Sow" be a moment of foreshadowing to Euron or Vic not controlling or riding a dragon??? I know there are some other possibilities as to why they could not, but I wonder if the fact that George added this bit of information in TPatQ actually gives a hint.

At one point during the Dance of Dragons, there were too many dragons compared to riders (kinda like now). So to help his mother Rhaenyera, Prince Jacaryes held a tournament called the Sowing to test for any other dragon riders from the pool of dragonseed that existed. If I remember correctly, the tournament was a disaster and no new dragon riders came from it :frown5:

So, could the Greyjoy words mean We do not ride dragons?

  • Prince Jacaerys announced (with the prompting of Mushroom, if his Testimony is to be believed) that any man or woman who could ride one of these dragons would be ennobled.
  • Even on Dragonstone, long Queen Rhaenyra’s seat and stronghold, they found many who misliked the queen for reasons both good and ill. Some grieved for brothers, sons, and fathers slain during the Sowing or...

 

Or it could be that they just take what they want and wouldn't bother to wait for competition to show up.

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1 minute ago, Isobel Harper said:

Or it could be that they just take what they want and wouldn't bother to wait for competition to show up.

Haha. No doubt! I guess with this I was thinking that even of the horn does work, it won't last very long at all and one or both of the Greyjoy boy's ends up eaten. Just a fun "what if" speculation.

Just like as I sit here while continuing my way through ASOS read by the wonderful Mr. Dotrice, and I listen to the Hound admit under duress that he killed Mycah just to prod Arya into giving him mercy (I don't think he killed Mycah. I think the other king's men in the woods did), and I realize that IF baby Aegon was switched, meaning the Mountain smashed the Pisswater Prince instead, both brothers are admitting to killing a young boy they did not really kill.

Brain goulash tonight. My head is just a mix of everything right now.

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20 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Haha. No doubt! I guess with this I was thinking that even of the horn does work, it won't last very long at all and one or both of the Greyjoy boy's ends up eaten. Just a fun "what if" speculation.

Just like as I sit here while continuing my way through ASOS read by the wonderful Mr. Dotrice, and I listen to the Hound admit under duress that he killed Mycah just to prod Arya into giving him mercy (I don't think he killed Mycah. I think the other king's men in the woods did), and I realize that IF baby Aegon was switched, meaning the Mountain smashed the Pisswater Prince instead, both brothers are admitting to killing a young boy they did not really kill.

Brain goulash tonight. My head is just a mix of everything right now.

Interesting!  Or maybe there's a Pisswater Butcher Boy out there somewhere. ;)

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