Dwarfism: A Targaryen Trait?

[The Queen Who Never Was]

If Tyrion is really the illegitimate son of Aerys II, who infamously lusted after Joanna Lannister, then which side of the family does his dwarfism, a hereditary condition, come from? With all of their natural beauty, no Targaryen dwarves were ever born prior to Tyrion, right?

Events from The World of Ice and Fire and The Song of Ice and Fire series lend credence to this plausible theory that Tyrion is the biological son of Aerys II instead of Tywin Lannister. The inappropriate liberties taken at the bedding of Joanna Lannister on her wedding night, the date of Joanna’s arrival at King’s Landing with her six-year-old twins and the timing of Tyrion’s birth make the circumstances surrounding Tyrion’s conception questionable. Tyrion’s mismatched green-and-black eyes, his pale yellow hair, and his obsession with fire and dragons are also cited as evidence of his Targaryen parentage.

“Oh, yes. Even a stunted, twisted, ugly little boy can look down over the world when he’s seated on a dragon’s back.” Tyrion pushed the bearskin aside and climbed to his feet. “I used to start fires in the bowels of Casterly Rock and stare at the flames for hours, pretending they were dragonfire. Sometimes I’d imagine my father burning. At other times, my sister.” Tyrion II, Game of Thrones

“He had expected to find [the dragon skills] impressive, perhaps even frightening. He had not thought to find them beautiful. Yet they were.” Tyrion II, Game of Thrones

However, Tyrion’s most noticeable physical trait, his dwarfism, is not usually presented as evidence which would link him to House Targaryen. Why not? For one very good reason: the Targaryens are noted to have godlike beauty, with their silver-spun hair and striking purple eyes.

“Look at her. That silvergold hair, those purple eyes… she is the blood of old Valyria, no doubt, no doubt… and highborn, daughter of the old king, sister to the new, she cannot fail to entrance our Drogo.” Daenerys I, Game of Thrones

As indicated by the text, the otherworldly, remarkable beauty of members of House Targaryen is a telltale sign of their sovereignty; their eyes are the color commonly associated with royalty. It has often distinguished them, giving them a sort of divine right to rule. Well, that and their ability to tame dragons.

Their exotic allure stands in stark contrast with Tyrion’s own disfigurement of having an over-sized head and short, twisted legs. Tyrion is painfully aware that others, including members of his own household and family, consider him to be a “twisted little monster” and a “twisted little monkey demon.” Only his brother, Jaime, has ever really shown him the slightest bit of affection. Tyrion thus speaks of himself as being a “grotesque.” He has learned to make japes about his own appearance so as to avoid letting others have power over him.

 "Don’t you see the jest, Lord Varys?” Tyrion waved a hand at the shuttered windows, at all the sleeping city. “Storm’s End is fallen and Stannis is coming with fire and steel and the gods alone know what dark powers, and the good folk don’t have Jaime to protect them, nor Robert nor Renly nor Rhaegar nor their precious Knight of Flowers. Only me, the one they hate.” He laughed again. “The dwarf, the evil counselor, the twisted little monkey demon. I’m all that stands between them and chaos.” Tyrion X, A Clash of Kings  

Since we surely would have heard mention of “grotesque” dwarves being born into House Targaryen before Tyrion, his dwarfism must come either from his Lannister mother or be a new genetic mutation, right? Not necessarily, since we might have come across Targaryen dwarves before, without even realizing it. Let’s consider the possibility that Tyrion is just one of many dwarves to descend from House Targaryen, but he may be one of the only to survive.

Surely, we would have heard mention of other Targaryen dwarves before? Well, we may have, just not in the way we might first expect. Meagor the Cruel, the product of incest, was said to have fathered deformed, stillborn children who were considered abominations and perhaps even the judgment of the Seven.

Maegor’s wars against [the Faith Militant] were further compounded by his many marriages, as he strove to produce an heir. Yet no matter how many women he wedded—or bedded—he found himself childless. He made brides of women whom he had widowed—women of proved fertility—but the only children born of his seed proved monstrosities: misshapen, eyeless, limbless, or having the parts of man and woman both. His descent into true madness, some say, began with the first of these abominations. Maegor I, WOIAF

So is the stillborn daughter of Princess Rhaenyra, Visenya (delivered during the Dance of the Dragons) said to have been deformed in the extreme, according to Mushroom (ironically, himself a dwarf and an unreliable narrator):

She cursed the child inside her too, Mushroom tells us. “Get out,” she screamed, clawing at her swollen belly as her maester and her midwife tried to restrain her. “Monster, monster, get out, get out, GET OUT!” When the babe at last came forth, she proved indeed a monster: a stillborn girl, twisted and malformed, with a hole in her chest where her heart should have been, and a stubby, scaled tail. Or so Mushroom describes her. From the History of Archmaester Gyldayn, WOIAF

Do these tales of ghastly deformities ring entirely true or might they be exaggerations of well-known conditions like dwarfism meant to cast aspersions on disliked Targaryens? Let’s return out attention to the events surrounding Tyrion’s birth for a possible explanation as we examine the story of “Lord Tywin’s Doom.”

Tyrion, as the babe was named, was a malformed, dwarfish babe born with stunted legs, an oversized head, and mismatched, demonic eyes (some reports also suggested he had a tail, which was lopped off at his lord father’s command). Lord Tywin’s Doom, the smallfolk called this ill-made creature, and Lord Tywin’s Bane. Upon hearing of his birth, King Aerys infamously said, “The gods cannot abide such arrogance. They have plucked a fair flower from his hand and given him a monster in her place, to teach him some humility at last.”  Aerys II, WOIAF

Oberyn Martell’s account of hearing that the gods had cursed Tywin Lannister with a monstrous, deformed child who was a hermaphrodite with claws and a pig’s tail turned out to be an old wives’ tale. When Oberyn finally beheld Tyrion for himself, Oberyn couldn’t find any signs of a pig’s tail, lion's claws or hermaphroditism. Instead, he simply saw a baby with a head slightly bigger than average and with mismatched green-and-black eyes.

“Cersei even undid your swaddling clothes to give us a better look,” the Dornish prince continued. “You did have one evil eye, and some black fuzz on your scalp. Perhaps your head was larger than most … but there was no tail, no beard, neither teeth nor claws, and nothing between your legs but a tiny pink cock. After all the wonderful whispers, Lord Tywin’s Doom turned out to be just a hideous red infant with stunted legs. Elia even made the noise that young girls make at the sight of infants, I’m sure you’ve heard it. The same noise they make over cute kittens and playful puppies. I believe she wanted to nurse you herself, ugly as you were. When I commented that you seemed a poor sort of monster, your sister said, ‘He killed my mother,’ and twisted your little cock so hard I thought she was like to pull it off. You shrieked, but it was only when your brother Jaime said, 'Leave him be, you’re hurting him,’ that Cersei let go of you. 'It doesn’t matter,’ she told us. 'Everyone says he’s like to die soon. He shouldn’t even have lived this long.’"  A Storm of Sword, Tyrion V

This terrible tale of “Lord Tywin’s Doom” was obviously a dispersion and an extreme exaggeration of the truth, which was that Tyrion was born a dwarf; the story also sounds a lot like the kinds of tales told about many stillborn Targaryen infants, who were described as being “monstrous” and “twisted” as Tyrion has been called. Might these stories of stillborn Targaryen children having wings and tails simply be exaggerations of real genetic conditions, the way the exaggeration about Tyrion’s dwarfism was? 

Let’s reexamine what blood and fire might actually mean to the history of this royal family, and how the Targaryen practice of marrying sister-to-brother or uncle-to-niece is bound to have affected the gene pool of this house. Much has already been said about the likelihood that members of House Targaryen literally have "blood of the dragon” coursing through their veins, as Prince Viserys was sure to remind his sister, Daenerys, repetitively.

“Besides, her brother had often told her that it was never too hot for a Targaryen. 'Ours is the house of the dragon,’ he would say. 'The fire is in our blood.’ … She had always assumed that she would wed Viserys when she came of age. For centuries the Targaryens had married brother to sister, since Aegon the Conqueror had taken his sisters to bride. The line must be kept pure, Viserys had told her a thousand times; theirs was the kingsblood, the golden blood of old Valyria, the blood of the dragon. Dragons did not mate with the beasts of the field, and Targaryens did not mingle their blood with that of lesser men.” Daenerys I, Game of Thrones

Dany recalls being told by her brother that the incestuous unions were meant to keep their royal bloodline pure. This viewpoint, while extremely elitist, might have come from the tales the Ancient Valyrians told about themselves. Not only did it preserve their beauty but their ability to tame dragons.

“The tales the Valyrians told of themselves claimed they were descended from dragons and were kin to the ones they now controlled.” The Rise of Valyria, World of Ice and Fire

The origin tale might have once served a greater purpose, namely to account for the control that dragonriders had over their dragons. If the Ancient Valyrians really did have “blood of the dragon” then the justification of practicing incestuous marriages would have been to prevent the dragonseed from being diluted with each passing generation.

The tradition amongst the Targaryens had always been to marry kin to kin. Wedding brother to sister was thought to be ideal. Failing that, a girl might wed an uncle, a cousin, or a nephew; a boy, a cousin, aunt, or niece. This practice went back to Old Valyria, where it was common amongst many of the ancient families, particularly those who bred and rode dragons. “The blood of the dragon must remain pure,” the wisdom went. From the History of Archmaester Gyldayn, WOIAF

That the Ancient Valyrians considered themselves to be kin of dragons was written about in Septon Barth‘s Unnatural Histories, in which he “considered the origins of dragons and how they came to be controlled by the Valyrians.” When Septon Barth makes mention of something, it is prudent for us as readers to pay attention, his trustworthiness as a more reliable narrator having been established.

The Targaryens' trademark physical beauty is a sign of their having kingsblood and might strongly be associated with tale of being related to dragons. This phenotype of purple eyes and silver hair seems to have been preserved as the result of an intentional bottleneck effect through the practice of multi-generational incest.

“The great beauty of the Valyrians—with their hair of palest silver or gold and eyes in shades of purple not found amongst any other peoples of the world—is well-known, and often held up as proof that the Valyrians are not entirely of the same blood as other men. Yet there are maesters who point out that, by careful breeding of animals, one can achieve a desirable result, and that populations in isolation can often show quite remarkable variations from what might be regarded as common. This may be a likelier answer to the mystery of the Valyrian origins although it does not explain the affinity with dragons that those with the blood of Valyria clearly had.” The Rise of Valyria, The World of Ice and Fire

Since it seems the godlike appearance of House Targaryen has been preserved due to incestuous unions since the time of Ancient Valyria, so too might dwarfism have, unbeknownst, been preserved as a recessive family trait. As we already know that certain heritable diseases like insanity might arise due to incestuous marriages, so might other genetic conditions like dwarfism have also been preserved at a higher rate. While the numerous accounts of Targaryen children being stillborn with tails, claws, and wings might be the result of having the “blood of the dragon," so might they also be exaggerations of a realistic genetic condition like dwarfism, which has existed for centuries with the Targaryen dynasty. Tyrion might simply be a secret Targ hiding in plain sight.

[Jak Scaletongue]

Dwarfism can be caused by more than 300 distinct medical conditions

Dwarfism can result from myriad medical conditions, each with its own separate symptoms and causes. Extreme shortness in humans with proportional body parts usually has a hormonal cause, such as growth-hormone deficiency

most often does happen in families where both parents are of average height. In fact, 4 out of 5 of children with achondroplasia are born to average-size parents.

Achondroplasia can be inherited from a parent, but in most cases, the mutation in the gene happens at random. Most people with achondroplasia have normal-sized parents.

http://kidshealth.org/en/parents/dwarfism.html

http://kidshealth.org/en/parents/az-achondroplasia.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarfism

Having quoted all that - I'll admit to being "on the fence" about the whole Tyrion Targ thing BUT it is important to note that most cases of dwarfism are the result of a genetic mutation while in the womb.  Penny's dad could pass it on to his kids, because he *had* the mutated gene being a dwarf himself.  Neither Tywin, Aerys or Joanna were dwarves (as far as we know) so regardless of who Tyrion's daddy is, it can not be passed to him simply because none of them had the mutated gene to pass on.  It's not a recessive gene, it's a complete mutation of the gene while the fetus is growing - much like Down's Syndrome*, it all comes down to random chance.  While GRRM may not have had access to Wikipedia while writing, I'm quite confident the man has opened an encyclopedia a few times in his life.  I am just as likely to have a child with dwarfism as anyone else (I'm short, but I do not meet the requirement of shorter than 4'10"!).  An adult with dwarfism is more likely than me to have a child with dwarfism, because they are passing on the mutated gene.  But you and I have equal chances of having a child with dwarfism (assuming you are an adult taller than 4'10").

(*now, Down Syndrome is an extra chromosome rather than a mutation, but the "random chance" part of it is where the similarity lies.  You can't determine who will produce a child with Down Syndrome and you can't determine who will produce a child with dwarfism.  It's a complete roll of the dice - you don't know what's going to come up til baby comes out! Unless you can afford genetic screening...)

 

TL;DR - dwarfism isn't recessive.  It's a genetic mutation that occurs in the womb.  Only a person with dwarfism can "pass it on" to their children, and even that's not guaranteed (two dwarves can have a child of average height - the likelihood is 50/50 for a pair of dwarf parents).  Since neither Aerys, Tywin or Joanna were dwarves, none of them could pass the mutated gene on to Tyrion.  Since both options for his father were not dwarves themselves, Tyrion's dwarfism was a genetic mutation that occured while he was still in utero.

[Dorian Martell]

3 hours ago, The Queen Who Never Was said:

If Tyrion is really the illegitimate son of Aerys II, who infamously lusted after Joanna Lannister, Tyrion might simply be a secret Targ hiding in plain sight.

Nope. One secret targ is enough, and it destroys tyrion's relationship with Tywin, and absolves him of killing his dad. He is not Cinderella. He is Tywin's son  

[Neds Secret]

12 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

Nope. One secret targ is enough, and it destroys tyrion's relationship with Tywin, and absolves him of killing his dad. He is not Cinderella. He is Tywin's son  

Well it looks like that is how you would like it to turn out.

[Dorian Martell]

5 hours ago, Neds Secret said:

Well it looks like that is how you would like it to turn out.

You're right, why stop there. Tyrion, Jaime, Cersei, Aurane Waters, Hodor, Moonboy, Patchface? 

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

22 hours ago, The Queen Who Never Was said:

However, Tyrion’s most noticeable physical trait, his dwarfism, is not usually presented as evidence which would link him to House Targaryen. Why not? For one very good reason: the Targaryens are noted to have godlike beauty, with their silver-spun hair and striking purple eyes.

Except for those who don't have silver hair, or purple eyes, or aren't particularly beautiful.

 

22 hours ago, The Queen Who Never Was said:

Since we surely would have heard mention of “grotesque” dwarves being born into House Targaryen before Tyrion, his dwarfism must come either from his Lannister mother or be a new genetic mutation, right? Not necessarily, since we may have come across Targaryen dwarves before, without ever even realizing it.

OK, find us a quote that actually hints at that, not merely one that doesn't directly contradict that, and you'll have something to work on.

I don't care here about real-world genetics all that much, because George doesn't care all that much, either, and things that don't exist in the creator's head simply don't exist within his world and the story he's telling. But textual support is a must.

[Universal Sword Donor]

23 hours ago, The Queen Who Never Was said:

If Tyrion is really the illegitimate son of Aerys II,

He's not.

who infamously lusted after Joanna Lannister, then which side of the family does his dwarfism, a hereditary condition, come from? With all of their natural beauty, no Targaryen dwarves were ever born prior to Tyrion, right?

That is correct. I don't believe there are any Lannister dwarves either, though them being mentioned in AWOIAF wouldn't really make sense since the family would likely try to hide them.

 

[Teal'c]

20 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

Nope. One secret targ is enough, and it destroys tyrion's relationship with Tywin, and absolves him of killing his dad. He is not Cinderella. He is Tywin's son  

This. Too much rich irony is lost if Tyrion belongs to Aerys. If the twins belong to Aerys, which I think is the case, then Tyrion and Jaime each killed his own father, and the only child that Tywin despises is the only child he has sired.

[naik2902]

Skipping aegon in the show gave all hints that he has dragon blood.

[Darth Sidious]

On 3/4/2016 at 1:06 PM, The Queen Who Never Was said:

If Tyrion is really the illegitimate son of Aerys II, who infamously lusted after Joanna Lannister, then which side of the family does his dwarfism, a hereditary condition, come from? With all of their natural beauty, no Targaryen dwarves were ever born prior to Tyrion, right?

Events from The World of Ice and Fire and The Song of Ice and Fire series lend credence to this plausible theory that Tyrion is the biological son of Aerys II instead of Tywin Lannister. The inappropriate liberties taken at the bedding of Joanna Lannister on her wedding night, the date of Joanna’s arrival at King’s Landing with her six-year-old twins and the timing of Tyrion’s birth make the circumstances surrounding Tyrion’s conception questionable. Tyrion’s mismatched green-and-black eyes, his pale yellow hair, and his obsession with fire and dragons are also cited as evidence of his Targaryen parentage.

“Oh, yes. Even a stunted, twisted, ugly little boy can look down over the world when he’s seated on a dragon’s back.” Tyrion pushed the bearskin aside and climbed to his feet. “I used to start fires in the bowels of Casterly Rock and stare at the flames for hours, pretending they were dragonfire. Sometimes I’d imagine my father burning. At other times, my sister.” Tyrion II, Game of Thrones

“He had expected to find [the dragon skills] impressive, perhaps even frightening. He had not thought to find them beautiful. Yet they were.” Tyrion II, Game of Thrones

However, Tyrion’s most noticeable physical trait, his dwarfism, is not usually presented as evidence which would link him to House Targaryen. Why not? For one very good reason: the Targaryens are noted to have godlike beauty, with their silver-spun hair and striking purple eyes.

“Look at her. That silvergold hair, those purple eyes… she is the blood of old Valyria, no doubt, no doubt… and highborn, daughter of the old king, sister to the new, she cannot fail to entrance our Drogo.” Daenerys I, Game of Thrones

As indicated by the text, the otherworldly, remarkable beauty of members of House Targaryen is a telltale sign of their sovereignty; their eyes are the color commonly associated with royalty. It has often distinguished them, giving them a sort of divine right to rule. Well, that and their ability to tame dragons.

Their exotic allure stands in stark contrast with Tyrion’s own disfigurement of having an over-sized head and short, twisted legs. Tyrion is painfully aware that others, including members of his own household and family, consider him to be a “twisted little monster” and a “twisted little monkey demon.” Only his brother, Jaime, has ever really shown him the slightest bit of affection. Tyrion thus speaks of himself as being a “grotesque.” He has learned to make japes about his own appearance so as to avoid letting others have power over him.

 "Don’t you see the jest, Lord Varys?” Tyrion waved a hand at the shuttered windows, at all the sleeping city. “Storm’s End is fallen and Stannis is coming with fire and steel and the gods alone know what dark powers, and the good folk don’t have Jaime to protect them, nor Robert nor Renly nor Rhaegar nor their precious Knight of Flowers. Only me, the one they hate.” He laughed again. “The dwarf, the evil counselor, the twisted little monkey demon. I’m all that stands between them and chaos.” Tyrion X, A Clash of Kings  

Since we surely would have heard mention of “grotesque” dwarves being born into House Targaryen before Tyrion, his dwarfism must come either from his Lannister mother or be a new genetic mutation, right? Not necessarily, since we may have come across Targaryen dwarves before, without ever even realizing it. Let’s consider the possibility that Tyrion is just one of many dwarves to descend from House Targaryen, but he may be one of the only to survive.

Surely, we would have heard mention of other Targaryen dwarves before? Well, we may have, just not in the way we might first expect. Meagor the Cruel, the product of incest, was said to have fathered deformed, stillborn children who were considered abominations and perhaps even the judgment of the Seven.

Maegor’s wars against [the Faith Militant] were further compounded by his many marriages, as he strove to produce an heir. Yet no matter how many women he wedded—or bedded—he found himself childless. He made brides of women whom he had widowed—women of proved fertility—but the only children born of his seed proved monstrosities: misshapen, eyeless, limbless, or having the parts of man and woman both. His descent into true madness, some say, began with the first of these abominations. Maegor I, WOIAF

So is the stillborn daughter of Princess Rhaenyra, Visenya (delivered during the Dance of the Dragons) said to have been deformed in the extreme, according to Mushroom (ironically, himself a dwarf and an unreliable narrator):

She cursed the child inside her too, Mushroom tells us. “Get out,” she screamed, clawing at her swollen belly as her maester and her midwife tried to restrain her. “Monster, monster, get out, get out, GET OUT!” When the babe at last came forth, she proved indeed a monster: a stillborn girl, twisted and malformed, with a hole in her chest where her heart should have been, and a stubby, scaled tail. Or so Mushroom describes her. From the History of Archmaester Gyldayn, WOIAF

Do these tales of ghastly deformities ring entirely true or might they be exaggerations of well-known conditions like dwarfism meant to cast aspersions on disliked Targaryens? Let’s return out attention to the events surrounding Tyrion’s birth for a possible explanation as we examine the story of “Lord Twyin’s Doom.”

Tyrion, as the babe was named, was a malformed, dwarfish babe born with stunted legs, an oversized head, and mismatched, demonic eyes (some reports also suggested he had a tail, which was lopped off at his lord father’s command). Lord Tywin’s Doom, the smallfolk called this ill-made creature, and Lord Tywin’s Bane. Upon hearing of his birth, King Aerys infamously said, “The gods cannot abide such arrogance. They have plucked a fair flower from his hand and given him a monster in her place, to teach him some humility at last.”  Aerys II, WOIAF

Oberyn Martell’s account of hearing that the gods had cursed Tywin Lannister with a monstrous, deformed child who was a hermaphrodite with claws and a pig’s tail turned out to be an old wives’ tale. When Oberyn finally beheld Tyrion for himself, Oberyn couldn’t find any signs of a pig’s tail, lion's claws or hermaphroditism. Instead, he simply saw a baby with a head slightly bigger than average and with mismatched green-and-black eyes.

“Cersei even undid your swaddling clothes to give us a better look,” the Dornish prince continued. “You did have one evil eye, and some black fuzz on your scalp. Perhaps your head was larger than most … but there was no tail, no beard, neither teeth nor claws, and nothing between your legs but a tiny pink cock. After all the wonderful whispers, Lord Tywin’s Doom turned out to be just a hideous red infant with stunted legs. Elia even made the noise that young girls make at the sight of infants, I’m sure you’ve heard it. The same noise they make over cute kittens and playful puppies. I believe she wanted to nurse you herself, ugly as you were. When I commented that you seemed a poor sort of monster, your sister said, ‘He killed my mother,’ and twisted your little cock so hard I thought she was like to pull it off. You shrieked, but it was only when your brother Jaime said, 'Leave him be, you’re hurting him,’ that Cersei let go of you. 'It doesn’t matter,’ she told us. 'Everyone says he’s like to die soon. He shouldn’t even have lived this long.’"  A Storm of Sword, Tyrion V

This terrible tale of “Lord Tywin’s Doom” was obviously a dispersion and an extreme exaggeration of the truth, which was that Tyrion was born a dwarf; the story also sounds a lot like the kinds of tales told about many stillborn Targaryen infants, who were described as being “monstrous” and “twisted” as Tyrion has been called. Might these stories of stillborn Targaryen children having wings and tails simply be exaggerations of real genetic conditions, the way the exaggeration about Tyrion’s dwarfism was? 

Let’s reexamine what blood and fire might actually mean to the history of this royal family, and how the Targaryen practice of marrying sister-to-brother or uncle-to-niece is bound to have affected the gene pool of this house. Much has already been said about the likelihood that members of House Targaryen literally have "blood of the dragon” coursing through their veins, as Prince Viserys was sure to remind his sister, Daenerys, repetitively.

“Besides, her brother had often told her that it was never too hot for a Targaryen. 'Ours is the house of the dragon,’ he would say. 'The fire is in our blood.’ … She had always assumed that she would wed Viserys when she came of age. For centuries the Targaryens had married brother to sister, since Aegon the Conqueror had taken his sisters to bride. The line must be kept pure, Viserys had told her a thousand times; theirs was the kingsblood, the golden blood of old Valyria, the blood of the dragon. Dragons did not mate with the beasts of the field, and Targaryens did not mingle their blood with that of lesser men.” Daenerys I, Game of Thrones

Dany recalls being told by her brother that the incestuous unions were meant to keep their royal bloodline pure. This viewpoint, while extremely elitist, might have come from the tales the Ancient Valyrians told about themselves. Not only did it preserve their beauty but their ability to tame dragons.

“The tales the Valyrians told of themselves claimed they were descended from dragons and were kin to the ones they now controlled.” The Rise of Valyria, World of Ice and Fire

The origin tale might have once served a greater purpose, namely to account for the control that dragonriders had over their dragons. If the Ancient Valyrians really did have “blood of the dragon” then the justification of practicing incestuous marriages would have been to prevent the dragonseed from being diluted with each passing generation.

The tradition amongst the Targaryens had always been to marry kin to kin. Wedding brother to sister was thought to be ideal. Failing that, a girl might wed an uncle, a cousin, or a nephew; a boy, a cousin, aunt, or niece. This practice went back to Old Valyria, where it was common amongst many of the ancient families, particularly those who bred and rode dragons. “The blood of the dragon must remain pure,” the wisdom went. From the History of Archmaester Gyldayn, WOIAF

That the Ancient Valyrians considered themselves to be kin of dragons was written about in Septon Barth‘s Unnatural Histories, in which he “considered the origins of dragons and how they came to be controlled by the Valyrians.” When Septon Barth makes mention of something, it is prudent for us as readers to pay attention, his trustworthiness as a more reliable narrator having been established.

The Targaryens' trademark physical beauty is a sign of their having kingsblood and might strongly be associated with tale of being related to dragons. This phenotype of purple eyes and silver hair seems to have been preserved as the result of an intentional bottleneck effect through the of multi-generational incest.

“The great beauty of the Valyrians—with their hair of palest silver or gold and eyes in shades of purple not found amongst any other peoples of the world—is well-known, and often held up as proof that the Valyrians are not entirely of the same blood as other men. Yet there are maesters who point out that, by careful breeding of animals, one can achieve a desirable result, and that populations in isolation can often show quite remarkable variations from what might be regarded as common. This may be a likelier answer to the mystery of the Valyrian origins although it does not explain the affinity with dragons that those with the blood of Valyria clearly had.” The Rise of Valyria, The World of Ice and Fire

Since it seems the godlike appearance of House Targaryen has been preserved due to incestuous unions since the time of Ancient Valyria, so too might dwarfism have, unbeknownst, been preserved as a recessive family trait. As we already know that certain heritable diseases like insanity might arise due to incestuous marriages, so might other genetic conditions like dwarfism might also have been preserved at a higher rate. While numerous accounts of Targaryen children being stillborn with tails, claws, and wings might be the result of having the “blood of the dragon” they might also be exaggerations of a realistic genetic condition like dwarfism, which has existed for centuries with the Targaryen dynasty. Tyrion might simply be a secret Targ hiding in plain sight.

Penny's brother, Oppo, was a dwarf.  So is Penny.  Dwarfism occurred throughout the world.  Incest can increase the chances of recessive traits appearing, but it does not mean they will appear.  I am going to take a wild guess and say many babies were born deformed during that time period, due to the lack of health care and good nutirition among other things, but such were handled discreetly.  The couple might show public grief and say their baby was stillborn, when likely it was put to death as soon as it came out and the deformity became known. 

Incest can only make the problem appear, if dwarfish was present in the gene pool to begin with.  The Targaryens have shown no evidence that they were carriers of the defect.  In other words, shit just happens sometimes. 

[Light a wight tonight]

Tywin was a hard man, and if he had had the least suspicion that Tyrion was the son of Aerys, whom Tywin hated, Tyrion wouldn't have survived more than a hour or so. The word would have been that mother and child died during a difficult birth. 

 

[Winter Rose Crown]

5 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said:

Tywin was a hard man, and if he had had the least suspicion that Tyrion was the son of Aerys, whom Tywin hated, Tyrion wouldn't have survived more than a hour or so. The word would have been that mother and child died during a difficult birth. 

 

By all accounts, tywin loved Joanna. If true (big if), them n wouldn't just be aerys's son, he'd be Joanna's son, too. It is possible tywin let him live for her sake. Esp if she told him about that aerys raped her before the birth s and he sagreed to let tyrion live before he knew the birth would kill joanna. Similar to the ned-lyanna promise.

[Lord Lannister]

On 3/4/2016 at 0:06 PM, The Queen Who Never Was said:

Snip

Excellent post and analysis. Most of the counterarguments to A+J=T are colored by what people want/don't want, like it "ruining" a relationship, one secret Targ being enough, or other entirely subjective statements.

[Lord Varys]

There are many secret Targaryens in this story already, not just one. Maester Aemon, the three-eyed crow, Young Griff, Jon Snow, and possibly even Varys and Illyrio all qualify as 'secret Targaryens' one way or another. Hell, even Stannis and Shireen do, in a sense, since we learned about their Targaryen grandmother in AFfC.

It is very evident that George didn't intend to make Daenerys literally the last scion of House Targaryen. And if a Targaryen restoration in some fashion is at the core of the story - which it apparently is - then it wouldn't be outlandish that more than just two main characters are descended from that family.

On 4.3.2016 at 7:06 PM, The Queen Who Never Was said:

stuff

I'm completely with you that some of the Targaryen miscarriages and stillbirths as well as those children who died in the cradle might have had the potential to grow into dwarfs. I'm not expert on this whole thing but I assume it is not necessarily always apparent that an infant - especially if he/she was stillborn or a born prematurely - would be immediately recognizable as a dwarf.

In that sense, Tyrion could actually have very much fit the bill of (some of) the less disfigured Targaryen monstrosities. We learn that not all of them are suffering from the same mutations. In light of the case of Rhaego I do not necessarily doubt the story of the Targaryen 'dragonspawn' children Maegor and Rhaenyra supposedly had. There may have been some exaggerations in some cases, but not all of them. And, vice versa, there might also have been some cases in which the true extent of the mutations was never revealed to the public because the people seeing those poor creatures were loyal to the royal family and kept their mouths shut.

The case of Maegor's children is especially interesting since we know from Dany and Rhaego that magical interference with Dany's pregnancy most likely caused both Rhaego's death and mutations - we know he was alive and well before Dany was carried into the tent. Maegor may very well have used spells, too, to impregnate his wives. He had tried to impregnate Ceryse, Alys, and other women for decades yet the first time he got a woman pregnant was Alys Harroway in 44 AC, a year after his mother had died. We know that Tyanna of the Tower was a sorceress (her spells most likely brought Maegor out of his coma - if it was a coma and he wasn't already dead and resurrected by her). In addition to the possibility that Maegor himself was the product of a spell administered by Visenya (who was also a sorceress) either to clone herself or to make Aegon's bad semen viable it is not far-fetched to assume that Maegor's genes and seed were so twisted and bad that additional magical meddling made things worse rather than better.

My guess is that Maegor had Tyanna help him to get his wives pregnant magically, and then later eventually blamed her magics for the monstrosities he fathered because he could not fathom the idea that there was something very wrong with him. But even if that's wrong and Tyanna 'poisoned' Maegor's other wives she most likely would have done that magically, and the results would then have been similar to Mirri messing with Dany's child.

In addition, there are other Targaryen children who died young about whose bodily shape we know nothing about - Aenys I's daughter Princess Vaella, the four children of Jaehaerys I and Alysanne (Aegon, Aeryn, Valerion, and Gaemon) who did not live to adulthood (some of which may have died in the cradle), the miscarriages and stillbirths of Aemma Arryn including stillborn Prince Baelon, and then, of course, all the miscarriages, stillbirths, and children who died in the cradle born to Queen Rhaella.

Another confirmed malformed Targaryen child was Daemon and Laena's son who only lived an hour and had been 'malformed'.

And then there is the hint that some Targaryens who lived actually were disfigured in a milder fashion. We have Prince Jaehaerys' additional toes and finger, Jaehaera and Vaella's severe mental issues, not to mention the Targaryen tendency to madness. Most notably there are the disfigurements of Jaehaerys II which aren't mentioned by Yandel in the text of TWoIaF but are visible in the full portrait of Egg and his three sons in TWoIaF (check his left hand). The published book cuts a little bit of the picture but the complete portrait can be seen in the ebook version - Jaehaerys has a crippled hand with deformed fingers. Amok's portrait depicts Jaehaerys II with the left arm hidden behind his cloak according to George's own description - so that is clearly not an artist running wild.

And we do, of course, not know whether this is the only physical deformity Jaehaerys II suffered from. The talk about 'various ailments' he suffered from is pretty vague.

If Jaehaerys II is the grandfather of Tyrion his disfigurement wouldn't come as a big surprise. Aerys and Rhaella easily could have been the carriers of his tainted genes, which were then passed on to many of their children (all those who died, and through Aerys alone, also to Tyrion, who survived). Rhaegar, Viserys, and Daenerys were the few lucky fruits of that ill-begotten union, and Rhaegar's children may have been lucky because Elia was their mother.

[Light a wight tonight]

10 hours ago, Winter Rose Crown said:

By all accounts, tywin loved Joanna. If true (big if), them n wouldn't just be aerys's son, he'd be Joanna's son, too. It is possible tywin let him live for her sake. Esp if she told him about that aerys raped her before the birth s and he sagreed to let tyrion live before he knew the birth would kill joanna. Similar to the ned-lyanna promise.

IMO, this would be totally out of character for Tywin. I don't know why, but this appeals to some readers.

A more likely scenario if Joanna were to find herself pregnant by Aerys is the same tansy treatment that Lysa got to abort Littlefinger's baby. Even more likely would be moon tea right after the rape. Why in the world would she want to carry the Mad King's rape-child to term?

[ravenous reader]

4 minutes ago, Light a wight tonight said:

IMO, this would be totally out of character for Tywin. I don't know why, but this appeals to some readers.

A more likely scenario if Joanna were to find herself pregnant by Aerys is the same tansy treatment that Lysa got to abort Littlefinger's baby. Even more likely would be moon tea right after the rape. Why in the world would she want to carry the Mad King's rape-child to term?

Agree; from everything we've been able to glean directly and indirectly of Tywin's character, he was a sadistic psychopath, who valued power above all things, including something as 'trivial' (from his world-view) as love.  From everything we've seen, I see no evidence of him ever extending love or forgiveness towards any individual, let alone his family.  Now, just because GRRM mentions it on occasion, we're supposed to believe he made an exception for this one special individual, 'Joanna'!  No, ladies and gentlemen, that lacks integrity, and doesn't ring true.  If that's really GRRM's intention, it's just sloppy character composition.

And, isn't Joanna supposed to be smart?  After all, that's the sole person from whom Tyrion is supposed to have inherited his smarts (assuming Tywin is not his biological father).  Even Lysa (not the sharpest tool on the block) figured out the recipe for moon-tea...

It is possible, however, that she'd had sexual relations with both of the men within a certain timeframe, and was unaware who the father was.  Still, why would she risk it?

In my opinion, GRRM didn't really think through all these intricacies we're subsequently imputing to him.  While A+J=T, and the allure surrounding the 'special-race' of the Targs, does not appeal to me in any respect-- it's all rather too cheesy for my taste-- I can, however, also see there's enough evidence to support it as well. 

 

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, Light a wight tonight said:

IMO, this would be totally out of character for Tywin. I don't know why, but this appeals to some readers.

A more likely scenario if Joanna were to find herself pregnant by Aerys is the same tansy treatment that Lysa got to abort Littlefinger's baby. Even more likely would be moon tea right after the rape. Why in the world would she want to carry the Mad King's rape-child to term?

That hinges on the assumption that Joanna Lannister was raped - which by no means is clear. It could have been consensual sex. In addition, she may have had sex with Tywin on the same day/around the same time (after all, she was visiting KL for the anniversary feast, so not just Aerys but Tywin, too, had theoretically a shot at Joanna). If Joanna herself couldn't rule out that Tywin was the father of her child she may have been reluctant to end the pregnancy. Not to mention that she may have lacked the means to do so quietly while at KL.

1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

Agree; from everything we've been able to glean directly and indirectly of Tywin's character, he was a sadistic psychopath, who valued power above all things, including something as 'trivial' (from his world-view) as love.  From everything we've seen, I see no evidence of him ever extending love or forgiveness towards any individual, let alone his family.  Now, just because GRRM mentions it on occasion, we're supposed to believe he made an exception for this one special individual, 'Joanna'!  No, ladies and gentlemen, that lacks integrity, and doesn't ring true.  If that's really GRRM's intention, it's just sloppy character composition.

Well, you should do your homework. Many textual sources state that Tywin was very much in love with Joanna Lannister - to the degree that Pycelle is cited by Yandel in TWoIaF that Joanna made Tywin laugh in public (something the man only later no longer did even in the presence of his own children). Not to mention the famous claim that Tywin Lannister may have ruled the Seven Kingdoms but Joanna Lannister ruled Tywin.

This whole thing doesn't make it unlikely that Joanna had an affair with Aerys even after her marriage to Tywin, and flat-out told him that he that this was the case and that he could do nothing about that.

Even if that wasn't the case: Tywin's deep and sincere love for Joanna could easily be the reason why he didn't kill Tyrion as an infant even if he did know or strongly suspect that the child wasn't his seed but Aerys'. In fact, there could have been some sort of 'Promise me, Tywin' scenario at Joanna's deathbed in which the dying Joanna had Tywin swear that he would never harm her innocent and raise him as his own son just Ned gave the dying Lyanna (presumably) a similar promise.

[BlueNightzx]

On 04/03/2016 at 6:48 PM, Dorian Martell said:

Nope. One secret targ is enough, and it destroys tyrion's relationship with Tywin, and absolves him of killing his dad. He is not Cinderella. He is Tywin's son  

I fully agree
Tyrion is a grotesque reflection of Tywin, and he knows that (in the end, we get to see that tywin enjoyed whores too, and his rage to his son is perhaps an rage against his true nature)
tyrion has the same intellectual prowess, the same strategic mind and calm, he is the "de facto" tywins heir, and thats the point of their arc together

tyrion in the end being another targ because he is cool and the audience love those fire breathing incest lunatics would kill the character to me, tyrion IS the quintessential lannister.like lann the clever, no swords, just his wits..

[Light a wight tonight]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

That hinges on the assumption that Joanna Lannister was raped - which by no means is clear. It could have been consensual sex. In addition, she may have had sex with Tywin on the same day/around the same time (after all, she was visiting KL for the anniversary feast, so not just Aerys but Tywin, too, had theoretically a shot at Joanna). If Joanna herself couldn't rule out that Tywin was the father of her child she may have been reluctant to end the pregnancy. Not to mention that she may have lacked the means to do so quietly while at KL.

 

We do see that Aerys was incapable of sex unless it was rape,so there's that...

[Dorian Martell]

50 minutes ago, BlueNightzx said:

I fully agree
Tyrion is a grotesque reflection of Tywin, and he knows that (in the end, we get to see that tywin enjoyed whores too, and his rage to his son is perhaps an rage against his true nature)
tyrion has the same intellectual prowess, the same strategic mind and calm, he is the "de facto" tywins heir, and thats the point of their arc together

tyrion in the end being another targ because he is cool and the audience love those fire breathing incest lunatics would kill the character to me, tyrion IS the quintessential lannister.like lann the clever, no swords, just his wits..

LIke Lann the Clever. His mind is a sword, his books are his whetstone