ravenous reader Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 37 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: I know it's a theory many believe, but I'm not one of them. I hope you're right, and I'm wrong!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talvikorppi Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Just now, kissdbyfire said: No, wolves are not the hardest animals to warg/skinchange into. ADwD, Prologue Dogs were the easiest beasts to bond with; they lived so close to men that they were almost human. Slipping into a dog's skin was like putting on an old boot, its leather softened by wear. As a boot was shaped to accept a foot, a dog was shaped to accept a collar, even a collar no human eye could see. Wolves were harder. A man might befriend a wolf, even break a wolf, but no man could truly tame a wolf. "Wolves and women wed for life," Haggon often said. "You take one, that's a marriage. The wolf is part of you from that day on, and you're part of him. Both of you will change." Other beasts were best left alone, the hunter had declared. Cats were vain and cruel, always ready to turn on you. Elk and deer were prey; wear their skins too long, and even the bravest man became a coward. Bears, boars, badgers, weasels … Haggon did not hold with such. "Some skins you never want to wear, boy. You won't like what you'd become." Birds were the worst, to hear him tell it. "Men were not meant to leave the earth. Spend too much time in the clouds and you never want to come back down again. I know skinchangers who've tried hawks, owls, ravens. Even in their own skins, they sit moony, staring up at the bloody blue." Wolves are harder than dogs, but by no means the hardest of all. As to Mel seeing their importance in the flames, as so often is the case with Mel, she sees but still she doesn't get it right. I stand corrected. (Dire)wolves aren't the hardest, maybe boars or ice-bears or whatever are. But a point was made that wolves mate for life, by extention it has been implied that they only take one warg. Certainly not more than one while the original bonded human is still alive. Maybe I'm just biased and don't want BR to have been skinchanging everything - that's a door GRRM left open for readers of all the auxillary stories. Of whom I'm not one. It's not a part of the main ASOIAF story, and nothing in the main ASOIAF story points to BR skinchanging/warging all of the things some fans think he might've. Maybe we'll learn that he, indeed, has, but for now, I don't buy it. He hasn't. I'll give Mormont's raven but that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talvikorppi Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Just now, kissdbyfire said: No, wolves are not the hardest animals to warg/skinchange into. ADwD, Prologue Dogs were the easiest beasts to bond with; they lived so close to men that they were almost human. Slipping into a dog's skin was like putting on an old boot, its leather softened by wear. As a boot was shaped to accept a foot, a dog was shaped to accept a collar, even a collar no human eye could see. Wolves were harder. A man might befriend a wolf, even break a wolf, but no man could truly tame a wolf. "Wolves and women wed for life," Haggon often said. "You take one, that's a marriage. The wolf is part of you from that day on, and you're part of him. Both of you will change." Other beasts were best left alone, the hunter had declared. Cats were vain and cruel, always ready to turn on you. Elk and deer were prey; wear their skins too long, and even the bravest man became a coward. Bears, boars, badgers, weasels … Haggon did not hold with such. "Some skins you never want to wear, boy. You won't like what you'd become." Birds were the worst, to hear him tell it. "Men were not meant to leave the earth. Spend too much time in the clouds and you never want to come back down again. I know skinchangers who've tried hawks, owls, ravens. Even in their own skins, they sit moony, staring up at the bloody blue." Wolves are harder than dogs, but by no means the hardest of all. As to Mel seeing their importance in the flames, as so often is the case with Mel, she sees but still she doesn't get it right. I stand corrected. (Dire)wolves aren't the hardest, maybe boars or ice-bears or whatever are. But a point was made that wolves mate for life, by extention it has been implied that they only take one warg. Certainly not more than one while the original bonded human is still alive. Maybe I'm just biased and don't want BR to have been skinchanging everything - that's a door GRRM left open for readers of all the auxillary stories. Of whom I'm not one. It's not a part of the main ASOIAF story, and nothing in the main ASOIAF story points to BR skinchanging/warging all of the things some fans think he might've. Maybe we'll learn that he, indeed, has, but for now, I don't buy it. He hasn't. I'll give Mormont's raven but that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 1 hour ago, talvikorppi said: (Dire)wolves aren't the hardest, maybe boars or ice-bears or whatever are. But a point was made that wolves mate for life, by extention it has been implied that they only take one warg. I would imagine dragons are the hardest! The interesting question: does a dragon only bond with one 'rider'..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talvikorppi Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 15 minutes ago, ravenous reader said: I would imagine dragons are the hardest! The interesting question: does a dragon only bond with one 'rider'..? Well, it seems that, as dragons are longer lived than humans, they might bond with more than one human during their lifetime. But only one at the time. I can't quote chapter and verse on this but many more experienced contributors on this site seem to agree on this. So much so that I thought it was "common knowledge". Maybe it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b00gieman Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Melisandre like everyone else receiving visions is being played by the COTF. They lure you in with the truth that is not given easily and misinterpreted more than nought. It is how they keep you coming back. I believe that the Three-Eyed Crow has been made a creature of the Children of the Forest. I believe that if the items in question are to be used right now they will have the unintended consequence of defeating men if used without knowing what they truly are. Fortunately Sam is at the Citadel right now unravelling these mysteries. The dragonglass has already been used to stir up a conflict between men and the Others. I truly believe that the First Men and the Others were allies and they helped them build the Wall. Hence why it is made of ice. I also believe that the COTF sent the Night's King queen as a lure to convert him to their side and thus have an inside man to control them. Time did the rest. Over 8000 years the Others slept and men forgot. The COTF planted false stories sent men visions of morrows to come. Men built their religions around these visions and now everything has been prepped for a war on a global scale with the COTF having their fingers on the proverbial button. http://howthegameofthronesends.blogspot.com/2016/03/who-is-bloodraven-aka-three-eyed-crow.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talvikorppi Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 31 minutes ago, b00gieman said: ...war on a global scale with the COTF having their fingers on the proverbial button. http://howthegameofthronesends.blogspot.com/2016/03/who-is-bloodraven-aka-three-eyed-crow.html Posting badly-spelled, off-topic, large-print crackpots are not going to endear you to the general populace here. Try harder. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkofWinterfell Posted March 9, 2016 Author Share Posted March 9, 2016 11 hours ago, ravenous reader said: That's precisely the disturbing part. I think this is foreshadowing both that Melisandre will seduce Jon, involving some sexual blood-magic, as is her modus operandi, as well as an ominous precedent set up by GRRM, so we are not surprised when Ghost approaches Melisandre willingly, before she slaughters him. Sad, but that's what I fear is going to happen. This would be absolutely dreadful. I sure hope Ghost doesn't get slaughtered for some ritual sacrifice. This thread was just some musings I had. I thought it'd be intriguing to consider the possibility of Mel and BR working together through Ghost. Who knows in the end? Appreciate the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 13 hours ago, talvikorppi said: I stand corrected. (Dire)wolves aren't the hardest, maybe boars or ice-bears or whatever are. But a point was made that wolves mate for life, by extention it has been implied that they only take one warg. Certainly not more than one while the original bonded human is still alive. Maybe I'm just biased and don't want BR to have been skinchanging everything - that's a door GRRM left open for readers of all the auxillary stories. Of whom I'm not one. It's not a part of the main ASOIAF story, and nothing in the main ASOIAF story points to BR skinchanging/warging all of the things some fans think he might've. Maybe we'll learn that he, indeed, has, but for now, I don't buy it. He hasn't. I'll give Mormont's raven but that's all. I hear you. I don't buy that BR has skinchanged every creature on Planetos either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ice Wolf of Loki Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Tinpot: Mel is Bloodravens daughter (she may or may not know this or that he still somewhat lives) and Ghost recognises them as belonging to Jon's pack via their shared Targaryen blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endymion I Targaryen Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 If the theory that Melisandre is a descandant of Bloodraven and Shiera Seastar is correct, then the connection between her and Bloodraven could be explained. In Dance, when she sees Bloodraven and Bran in her flames,she doesn't recognize them.If she was in league with Bloodraven,she would have known him.Plus priests of Rhlor don't seem to cooperate with "priests" of other religions.GRRM has said about her:"Melisandre has gone to Stannis entirely on her own, and has her own agenda." As for Ghost's warging, I think of Bran too.In Clash he speaks to Ghost/Jon via a weirwood.If his powers have grown why can't he warg Ghost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoneofYourBiz Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Why does anyone have to die to resurrect Jon? Thoros didn't have to kill anyone to resurrect Beric and I would assume since Mel would theoretically call upon the same power as Thoros that no one need die in her resurrection of someone either. Mirri Maz Durr might need to take life to give life but Thoros didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neds Secret Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 On 9 March 2016 at 11:03 AM, talvikorppi said: Posting badly-spelled, off-topic, large-print crackpots are not going to endear you to the general populace here. Try harder. Sorry. I did not think that it was badly spelt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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