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Ryan Minor

Horn of joramun speculation

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Hey, first post. I'm new. Flame away. But I haven't heard anyone talking about the possibility that the white walkers have, in fact, found the horn of Joramun and will use it to knock down the wall and spill into the north. It seems to work doesn't it? Ygritte and Tormund both said they never found it. Wouldn't that (maybe) break the spell keeping the others from passing through? This theory has been nagging at me and I have yet to find anything on the topic. Sorry if this sounds ridiculous. Please go easy.

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Definitely not ridiculous.

The most likely theory about the Horn of Joramun that I've seen is that Sam has it. That it's the broken horn discovered among the obsidian blades uncovered by Ghost. In which case the Others definitely don't have it and seem unlikely to get it.

I guess the next question is whether the horn could possibly be repaired and if so, how?

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I don't understand why you'd build a 700ft high wall to defend yourself and the kingdoms on Westeros and then burry the self destruct button deep inside enemy territory!

That makes no sense to me, which is why I wonder about the validity of any claims to whom possesses the horn, or that it even truly exists  

Now it could be that it was stollen and was being taken north to give to the Others? But why has it taken so long to get it to them, unless it was forgotten over the millennia.  And would someone stealing it to give to the Others really burry it in a cashe of weapons that would be deadly to the people you hope to find it?

But still, if the Wall is your last line of defense why even have a self destruct in the first place...seems a bit reckless. 

Only other explanation I can think of is that the Others made the horn and someone got wind of it and stole it (Joramun?). But in trying to escape with it he got cornered and hid it rather than lose it back to them. Then it was forgotten as the Others couldn't find it and the humans assume the thief has failed his mission and died. 

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On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 0:17 PM, Ryan Minor said:

Hey, first post. I'm new. Flame away. But I haven't heard anyone talking about the possibility that the white walkers have, in fact, found the horn of Joramun and will use it to knock down the wall and spill into the north. It seems to work doesn't it? Ygritte and Tormund both said they never found it. Wouldn't that (maybe) break the spell keeping the others from passing through? This theory has been nagging at me and I have yet to find anything on the topic. Sorry if this sounds ridiculous. Please go easy.

I think most readers believe it to be the one Sam has as @Blind Beth the Cat Lady mentioned or it's just lost. 

18 hours ago, booger_eater said:

I just think you don't build a 700 foot wall into the story without tearing it down. Not sure how it's gonna happen but I'm looking forward to it!

I swear to the Gods I BETTER get to see a gd ice spider crawling over it first!

2 hours ago, Lordsteve666 said:

I don't understand why you'd build a 700ft high wall to defend yourself and the kingdoms on Westeros and then burry the self destruct button deep inside enemy territory!

That makes no sense to me, which is why I wonder about the validity of any claims to whom possesses the horn, or that it even truly exists  

Now it could be that it was stollen and was being taken north to give to the Others? But why has it taken so long to get it to them, unless it was forgotten over the millennia.  And would someone stealing it to give to the Others really burry it in a cashe of weapons that would be deadly to the people you hope to find it?

But still, if the Wall is your last line of defense why even have a self destruct in the first place...seems a bit reckless. 

Only other explanation I can think of is that the Others made the horn and someone got wind of it and stole it (Joramun?). But in trying to escape with it he got cornered and hid it rather than lose it back to them. Then it was forgotten as the Others couldn't find it and the humans assume the thief has failed his mission and died. 

Bwahahaha!  Seriously!

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6 hours ago, Lordsteve666 said:

I don't understand why you'd build a 700ft high wall to defend yourself and the kingdoms on Westeros and then burry the self destruct button deep inside enemy territory!

That makes no sense to me, which is why I wonder about the validity of any claims to whom possesses the horn, or that it even truly exists  

Now it could be that it was stollen and was being taken north to give to the Others? But why has it taken so long to get it to them, unless it was forgotten over the millennia.  And would someone stealing it to give to the Others really burry it in a cashe of weapons that would be deadly to the people you hope to find it?

But still, if the Wall is your last line of defense why even have a self destruct in the first place...seems a bit reckless. 

Only other explanation I can think of is that the Others made the horn and someone got wind of it and stole it (Joramun?). But in trying to escape with it he got cornered and hid it rather than lose it back to them. Then it was forgotten as the Others couldn't find it and the humans assume the thief has failed his mission and died. 

Plus, horn aside, the wall is made out of ice magic. Why use a wall of ice magic to keep out ice magic monsters in the first place?

I think we're definitely meant to question what we're told about the purpose of the Wall.

But, in terms of who was in possession of the horn before Sam--my guess is the CotF. Sam uncovers a reference to CotF giving the Night's Watch so many obsidian blades every year. So the cache of blades Ghost found is probably a resumption of that. CotF know Others are mobilizing, think NW could use some more dragonglass, give some to a NW member (Benjen?) who then gets sidetracked somehow and leaves the cache stowed near the Fist instead of bringing it all the way back. And as a bonus CotF include the Horn of Joramun this time...though why I'm not sure.

The fact that the Wall has a destruct button in the first place is very curious.

3 hours ago, DarkSister1001 said:

I swear to the Gods I BETTER get to see a gd ice spider crawling over it first!

:cheers:

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1 hour ago, Blind Beth the Cat Lady said:

The fact that the Wall has a destruct button in the first place is very curious.

This is one thing that just doesn't sit right with me. Why build a massive defensive wall 700ft high and hundreds of miles long and then build a means to destroy it in an instant. 
Regardless of who built it originally (First Men, CotF, or the Others) why would any side in particular need to destroy it if it's purpose is to stop the other side getting across?

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3 minutes ago, Lordsteve666 said:

This is one thing that just doesn't sit right with me. Why build a massive defensive wall 700ft high and hundreds of miles long and then build a means to destroy it in an instant. 
Regardless of who built it originally (First Men, CotF, or the Others) why would any side in particular need to destroy it if it's purpose is to stop the other side getting across?

IDK if I truly believe that the Horn would actually bring down the Wall just bc it would be so monumentally stupid to have a tool like that.  It could be a number of things.  Maybe it's a dragonbinder horn and binds the dragon within the wall like Euron's horn does and the Wall is destroyed in the process.  A decent argument could be made that since the Free Folk already came over that it means the Wall has already metaphorically collapsed.  Not that I'm sold on any of the possibilities I listed, just fun to ponder.

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Listen to the storyteller . . .
 

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"My name is Samwell Tarly, of Horn . . . " He stopped and licked his lips. "I mean, I was of HornHill, until I . . . left. I've come to take the black. My father is Lord Randyll, a bannerman to the Tyrells ofHighgarden. I used to be his heir, only . . . " His voice trailed off.

Jon IV, Game 26

Hmm . . . Samwell is from Horn Hill . . .
 

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"Hear my words, and bear witness to my vow," they recited, their voices filling the twilit grove. "Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."

Jon VI, Game 48

So, one of the principal duties of the men of the Night's Watch is to rouse the men of Westeros to defend against the Others. But the horn used here is metaphorical.
 

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The music grew wilder, the drummers joined in, and Hother Umber brought forth a huge curved warhorn banded in silver. When the singer reached the part in "The Night That Ended" where the Night's Watch rode forth to meet the Others in the Battle for the Dawn, he blew a blast that set all the dogs to barking.

Bran III, Clash 21

See, the horn sounds, and the Night's Watch rides off to defend the realms of men. That's a good horn. It wakes the sleepers :)
 

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"Wildlings have invaded the realm before." Jon had heard the tales from Old Nan and Maester Luwin both, back atWinterfell. "Raymun Redbeard led them south in the time of my grandfather's grandfather, and before him there was a king named Bael the Bard."

"Aye, and long before them came the Horned Lord and the brother kings Gendeland Gorne, and in ancient days Joramun, who blew the Horn of Winter and woke giants from the earth. Each man of them broke his strength on the Wall, or was broken by the power of Winterfell on the far side . . . but the Night's Watch is only a shadow of what we were, and who remains to oppose the wildlings besides us? The Lord of Winterfell is dead, and his heir has marched his strength south to fight theLannisters. The wildlings may never again have such a chance as this. I knew ManceRayder, Jon. He is an oathbreaker, yes . . . but he has eyes to see, and no man has ever dared to name him faintheart."

Jon III, Clash 23

So this Joramun cat sounded the Horn of Winter and woke giants from the earth. That doesnt sound like a good horn, waking giants and all. I'd much rather have the horn that wakes the sleepers. But as we'll learn later, Joramun might not have been such a bad cat.
 

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Jon brushed the loose soil away to reveal a rounded bundle perhaps two feet across. He jammed his fingers down around the edges and worked it loose. When he pulled it free, whatever was inside shifted and clinked. Treasure, he thought, but the shapes were wrong to be coins, and the sound was wrong for metal.

A length of frayed rope bound the bundle together. Jon unsheathed his dagger and cut it, groped for the edges of the cloth, and pulled. The bundle turned, and its contents spilled out onto the ground, glittering dark and bright. He saw a dozen knives, leaf-shaped spearheads, numerous arrowheads. Jon picked up a dagger blade, featherlightand shiny black, hiltless. Torchlight ran along its edge, a thin orange line that spoke of razor sharpness. Dragonglass. What themaesters call obsidian. Had Ghost uncovered some ancient cache of the children of the forest, buried here for thousands of years? The Fist of the First Men was an old place, only . . .

Beneath the dragonglass was an old warhorn, made from an auroch's horn and banded in bronze. Jon shook the dirt from inside it, and a stream of arrowheads fell out. He let them fall, and pulled up a corner of the cloth the weapons had been wrapped in, rubbing it between his fingers. Good wool, thick, a double weave, damp but not rotted. It could not have been long in the ground. And it was dark. He seized a handful and pulled it close to the torch. Not dark. Black.

Even before Jon stood and shook it out, he knew what he had: the black cloak of a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch.

Jon IV, Clash 34

This. Keep your eye on the prize.
 

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The call came drifting through the black of night. Jon pushed himself onto an elbow, his hand reaching for Longclaw by force of habit as the camp began to stir. The horn that wakes the sleepers, he thought.

. . .

Mormont moved to the fire. "The Halfhand. And past time."

. . .

Jon slid his new dagger from its sheath and studied the flames as they played against the shiny black glass. He had fashioned the wooden hilt himself, and wound hempen twine around it to make a grip. Ugly, but it served. Dolorous Edd opined that glass knives were about as useful as nipples on a knight's breastplate, but Jon was not so certain. The dragonglass blade was sharper than steel, albeit far more brittle.

It must have been buried for a reason.

He had made a dagger for Grenn as well, and another for the Lord Commander.The warhorn he had given to Sam. On closer examination the horn had proved cracked, and even after he had cleaned all the dirt out, Jon had been unable to get any sound from it. The rim was chipped as well, but Sam liked old things, even worthless old things. "Make a drinking horn out of it," Jon told him, "and every time you take a drink you'll remember how you ranged beyond the Wall, all the way to the Fist of the First Men." He gave Sam a spearhead and a dozen arrowheads as well, and passed the rest out among his other friends for luck.

The Old Bear had seemed pleased by the dagger, but he preferred a steel knife at his belt, Jon had noticed. Mormont could offer no answers as to who might have buried the cloak or what it might mean. Perhaps Qhorin will know. The Halfhandhad ventured deeper into the wild than any other living man.

. . .

Mormont's head came up sharply. "What?"

"They do not plan to climb the Wall nor to burrow beneath it, my lord. They plan to break it."

"The Wall is seven hundred feet high, and so thick at the base that it would take a hundred men a year to cut through it with picks and axes."

"Even so."

Mormont plucked at his beard, frowning. "How?"

"How else? Sorcery." Qhorin bit the egg in half. "Why else would Mance choose to gather his strength in the Frostfangs? Bleak and hard they are, and a long weary march from the Wall."

"I'd hoped he chose the mountains to hide his muster from the eyes of my rangers."

"Perhaps," said Qhorin, finishing the egg, "but there is more, I think. He is seeking something in the high cold places. He is searching for something he needs."

"Something?" Mormont's raven lifted its head and screamed. The sound was sharp as a knife in the closeness of the tent.

"Some power. What it is, our captive could not say. He was questioned perhaps too sharply, and died with much unsaid. I doubt he knew in any case."

Jon V, Clash 43

So, we know that the Mance is seeking some fell power to use against the Night's Watch.
 

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They're not wearing skins, Jon realized. That's hair. Shaggy pelts covered their bodies, thick below the waist, sparser above. The stink that came off them was choking, but perhaps that was the mammoths. And Joramun blew the Horn of Winter, and woke giants from the earth. He looked for great swords ten feet long, but saw only clubs. Most were just the limbs of dead trees, some still trailing shattered branches. A few had stone balls lashed to the ends to make colossal mauls. The song never says if the horn can put them back to sleep.

. . .

"So how did you come by your other names?" Jon asked. "Mance called you the Horn-Blower, didn't he? Mead-king of Ruddy Hall, Husband to Bears, Father to Hosts?" It was the horn blowing he particularly wanted to hear about, but he dared not ask too plainly.And Joramun blew the Horn of Winter, and woke giants from the earth. Is that where they had come from, them and their mammoths? Had Mance Rayderfound the Horn of Joramun, and given it toTormund Thunderfist to blow?

Jon II, Storm 15

And we know that giants are real. But did the Mance blow Joramun's horn to wake these giants? If not, then what kind of giants would blowing that horn wake?
 

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"Why are you crying, then?"

"Not for fear!" She kicked savagely at the ice beneath her with a heel, chopping out a chunk. "I'm crying because we never found the Horn of Winter. We opened half a hundred graves and let all those shades loose in the world, and never found the Horn of Joramun to bring this cold thing down!"

Jon IV, Storm 30

Here we're told that Mance didn't find the horn. The only reason to question the authenticity of this is that Ygritte would not have been privy to any secret strategy the Mance might have had up his sleeve.
 

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But Dywen listened, and DolorousEdd, and they made Sam and Grenn tell the Lord Commander. Mormont frowned all through the tale and asked pointed questions, but he was too cautious a man to shun any possible advantage. He asked Sam for all the dragonglass in his pack, though that was little enough. Whenever Sam thought of the cache Jon had found buried beneath the Fist, it made him want to cry. There'd been dagger blades and spearheads, and two or three hundred arrowheads at least. Jon had made daggers for himself, Sam, and Lord Commander Mormont, and he'd given Sam a spearhead, an old broken horn, and some arrowheads. Grenn had taken a handful of arrowheads as well, but that was all.

 Samwell II, Storm 33

But Jon gave that old horn to Sam, the dude from Horn Hill.
 

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 Mance never found the horn, though, that's something. The Horn of Winter, that's what he was digging for up along theMilkwater."

Maester Aemon paused, washcloth in hand. "The Horn of Winter is an ancient legend. Does the King-beyond-the-Wall truly believe that such a thing exists?"

"They all do," said Jon.

Jon VI, Storm 48

Jon believed Ygritte was right.
 

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He brought her back to the Nightfortand proclaimed her a queen and himself her king, and with strange sorceries he bound his Sworn Brothers to his will. For thirteen years they had ruled, Night's King and his corpse queen, till finally the Stark ofWinterfell and Joramun of the wildlings had joined to free the Watch from bondage. After his fall, when it was found he had been sacrificing to the Others, all records of Night's King had been destroyed, his very name forbidden.

Bran IV, Storm 56

So Joramun the wilding joined with House Stark to free the Night's Watch from the yoke of the Night's King. Since the Wall was already built, and since we're led to believe that sounding Joramun's horn will bring down the Wall, that's not when he blew it. He must have blown it before the rise of the Night's King.
 

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Jon was trying to make sense of that when the horn blew.

The Horn of Winter, he thought, still confused from sleep. But Mance never found Joramun's horn, so that couldn't be. A second blast followed, as long and deep as the first. Jon had to get up and go to the Wall, he knew, but it was so hard . . .

Jon VIII, Storm 64
 

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"Well, I am not satisfied, Maester," said the jowly man. "I will hear these explanations for myself. Yes I will!"

Jon swallowed his anger. "I abandoned no one. I left the Fist with Qhorin Halfhand to scout the Skirling Pass. I joined the wildlings under orders. The Halfhand feared that Mance might have found the Horn of Winter . . . "

"The Horn of Winter?" Ser Alliser chuckled. "Were you commanded to count their snarksas well, Lord Snow?"

"No, but I counted their giants as best I could."

Jon IX, Storm 69

Here we learn that the legend of the Horn of Winter is known to southrons as well as northmen.
 

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Jon kept his face as still as ice. Foul enough to slay a man in his own tent under truce. Must I murder him in front of his wife as their child is being born? He closed the fingers of his sword hand. Mance was not wearing armor, but his own sword was sheathed on his left hip. And there were other weapons in the tent, daggers and dirks, a bow and a quiver of arrows, a bronze-headed spear lying beside that big black . . .

. . . horn.

Jon sucked in his breath.

A warhorn, a bloody great warhorn.

Yes," Mance said. "The Horn of Winter, that Joramun once blew to wake giants from the earth."

The horn was huge, eight feet along the curve and so wide at the mouth that he could have put his arm inside up to the elbow. If this came from an aurochs, it was the biggest that ever lived. At first he thought the bands around it were bronze, but when he moved closer he realized they were gold. Old gold, more brown than yellow, and graven with runes.


"Ygritte said you never found the horn."

"Did you think only crows could lie? I liked you well enough, for a bastard . . . but I never trusted you. A man needs to earn my trust."

Jon faced him. "If you've had the Horn ofJoramun all along, why haven't you used it? Why bother building turtles and sendingThenns to kill us in our beds? If this horn is all the songs say, why not just sound it and be done?"

It was Dalla who answered him, Dalla great with child, lying on her pile of furs beside the brazier. "We free folk know things you kneelers have forgotten. Sometimes the short road is not the safest, Jon Snow. The Horned Lord once said that sorcery is a sword without a hilt. There is no safe way to grasp it."

Mance ran a hand along the curve of the great horn. "No man goes hunting with only one arrow in his quiver," he said. "I had hoped that Styr and Jarl would take your brothers unawares, and open the gate for us. I drew your garrison away with feints and raids and secondary attacks. Bowen Marsh swallowed that lure as I knew he would, but your band of cripples and orphans proved to be more stubborn than anticipated. Don't think you've stopped us, though. The truth is, you are too few and we are too many. I could continue the attack here and still send ten thousand men to cross the Bay of Seals on rafts and takeEastwatch from the rear. I could storm the Shadow Tower too, I know the approaches as well as any man alive. I could send men and mammoths to dig out the gates at the castles you've abandoned, all of them at once."

"Why don't you, then?" Jon could have drawn Longclaw then, but he wanted to hear what the wildling had to say.

"Blood," said Mance Rayder. "I'd win in the end, yes, but you'd bleed me, and my people have bled enough."

"Your losses haven't been that heavy."

"Not at your hands." Mance studied Jon's face. "You saw the Fist of the First Men. You know what happened there. You know what we are facing."

"The Others . . . "

"They grow stronger as the days grow shorter and the nights colder. First they kill you, then they send your dead against you. The giants have not been able to stand against them, nor the Thenns, the ice river clans, the Hornfoots."

"Nor you?"

"Nor me." There was anger in that admission, and bitterness too deep for words. "Raymun Redbeard, Bael the Bard,Gendel and Gorne, the Horned Lord, they all came south to conquer, but I've come with my tail between my legs to hide behind your Wall." He touched the horn. Again. "If I sound the Horn of Winter, the Wall will fall. Or so the songs would have me believe. There are those among my people who want nothing more . . . "

"But once the Wall is fallen," Dalla said, "what will stop the Others?"

Mance gave her a fond smile. "It's a wise woman I've found. A true queen." He turned back to Jon. "Go back and tell them to open their gate and let us pass. If they do, I will give them the horn, and the Wall will stand until the end of days."

"If you refuse," Mance Rayder said, "Tormund Giantsbane will sound the Horn of Winter three days hence, at dawn."

Jon X, Storm 73

And here we have it: Sounding Joramun's Horn of Winter will wake giants from the earth and bring down the Wall.
 

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 Gilly nodded, cradling the babe against her breast, her eyes welling full of tears. She is going to weep again, Sam realized. It was more than he could take. His swordbelt hung from a peg on the wall, beside the old cracked horn that Jon had given him. He ripped it down and buckled it about him, then swept his black wool cloak about his rounded shoulders, slumped through the door, and clattered down a wooden stair whose steps creaked beneath his weight. The inn had two front doors, one opening on a street and one on a canal. Sam went out through the former, to avoid the common room where the innkeepwas sure to give him the sour eye that he reserved for guests who had overstayed their welcome.

 Samwell III, Feast 26

The Mance may have that big fancy horn, but are you keeping your eyes on the prize?
 

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"Mance knows the haunted forest better than any ranger," Jon had told KingStannis, in his final effort to convince His Grace that the King-Beyond-the-Wall would be of more use to them alive than dead. "He knows Tormund Giantsbane. He has fought the Others. And he had the Horn of Joramunand did not blow it. He did not bring down the Wall when he could have."

Lady Melisandre watched him rise.

. . .

"FREE FOLK! Here stands your king of lies. And here is the horn he promised would bring down the Wall."

Two queen's men brought forth the Horn ofJoramun, black and banded with old gold, eight feet long from end to end. Runes were carved into the golden bands, the writing of the First Men. Joramun had died thousands of years ago, but Mance had found his grave beneath a glacier, high up in theFrostfangs. And Joramun blew the Horn of Winter, and woke giants from the earth.Ygritte had told Jon that Mance never found the horn. She lied, or else Mance kept it secret even from his own.

. . .

"The Horn of Joramun?" Melisandre said. "No. Call it the Horn of Darkness. If the Wall falls, night falls as well, the long night that never ends. It must not happen, will not happen! The Lord of Light has seen his children in their peril and sent a champion to them, Azor Ahai reborn." She swept a hand toward Stannis, and the great ruby at her throat pulsed with light.

. . .

The Horn of Joramun burst into flame.

Jon III, Dance 10

So, the Horn of Winter is destroyed . . . or is it?
 

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Then he heard the horn.

A long low moan, it seemed to hang above the battlements, lingering in the black air, soaking deep into the bones of every man who heard it. All along the castle walls, sentries turned toward the sound, their hands tightening around the shafts of their spears. In the ruined halls and keeps ofWinterfell, lords hushed other lords, horses nickered, and sleepers stirred in their dark corners. No sooner had the sound of thewarhorn died away than a drum began to beat: BOOM doom BOOM doom BOOM doom. And a name passed from the lips of each man to the next, written in small white puffs of breath. Stannis, they whispered,Stannis is here, Stannis is come, Stannis,Stannis, Stannis.

"Do they mean to try and blow our walls down?" japed a Flint when the warhornsounded once again. "Mayhaps he thinks he's found the Horn of Joramun."

A Ghost in Winterfell, Dance 46

This appears to be nothing more than a joke, but the storyteller is redirecting us toward the Horn of Winter.
 

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"You need a bigger gate," Tormundcomplained to Jon with a sour look up at the sky, where a few clouds had blown in. "Too bloody slow this way. Like sucking theMilkwater through a reed. Har. Would that I had the Horn of Joramun. I'd give it a nice toot and we'd climb through the rubble."

"Melisandre burned the Horn of Joramun."

"Did she?" Tormund slapped his thigh and hooted. "She burned that fine big horn, aye. A bloody sin, I call it. A thousand years old, that was. We found it in a giant's grave, and no man o' us had ever seen a horn so big. That must have been why Mance got the notion to tell you it were Joramun's. He wanted you crows to think he had it in his power to blow your bloody Wall down about your knees. But we never found the true horn, not for all our digging. If we had, every kneeler in your Seven Kingdoms would have chunks o' ice to cool his wine all summer."

Jon turned in his saddle, frowning. AndJoramun blew the Horn of Winter and woke giants from the earth. That huge horn with its bands of old gold, incised with ancient runes had Mance Rayder lied to him, or was Tormund lying now? If Mance' s horn was just a feint, where is the true horn?

Jon XII, Dance 58

Well, that's the $64,000 question. And here's the answer . . .
 

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It has to be Horn Hill, Sam finally decided. Once we reach Oldtown I'll hire a wagon and some horses and take her there myself.

 Samwell V, Feast 45

It's on its way to Horn Hill! 

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I don't think that the horn was designed to tear down the wall. After all like the other posters said, that's a dumb idea. 

It is the horn of Joramun after all, and Joramun was the King beyond the Wall during the reign of the Nights King, when he allied with Brandon the Breaker to defeat him. 

The Nights King was the 13th LC of the NW, that implies that the wall was already up when Joramun was King. But did Joramun create the horn or find it? I think that's a better question. 

My idea of it is that the wards in the wall are what break when the horn is blown, I mean it's gotta be loud enough to wake giants from the earth. 

The Others are Ice creatures, why does a massive wall of ice stop them? Magic duh. Without the wards I suspect that the others won't have too much trouble with the wall. 

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I agree that the horn brings down the wall, and I love the idea of a bunch of giants waking up, but I think it is more straightforward and the horn brings down the wall magically.  One of my pet peeves in the books has been Samwell essentially ignoring a horn found with dragonsglass that clearly has some important role....

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THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE REPLIES! I thought I was insane. While you all bring up lots of good points, I'm looking at the plot arc of the entire series. I believe the whole Jon Snow Targaryan conspiracy, but I think that the fight that they're (he and Dany) are going to face upon her landing on Westeros is going to be a White Walker + Thralls invasion into Westeros culminating in a battle at Kings Landing.

Or at least that seems to be nearly perfect as far as plot arcs go.

And to get that the White Walkers need to be able to broach the wall in force. The fact that Ygrette and Tormund have both confirmed that the wildlings were looking, but never found the horn leads me to believe that the others may have been looking as well and might very well have found it. Now I have nothing to confirm this. There have been no hints to this other than the wildlings not finding it. Just something that has stayed in the back of my mind.

This forum rocks and I can't fucking wait for the next book. Thanks for entertaining my idea.

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On 3/8/2016 at 5:47 PM, Blind Beth the Cat Lady said:

Definitely not ridiculous.

The most likely theory about the Horn of Joramun that I've seen is that Sam has it. That it's the broken horn discovered among the obsidian blades uncovered by Ghost. In which case the Others definitely don't have it and seem unlikely to get it.

I guess the next question is whether the horn could possibly be repaired and if so, how?

To the OP, not ridiculous at all and I respect the work you put in to your theory. However, I see it differently.

I tend to think Sam now has it with him at the Citadel. He has basically been stripped of most all of his possessions except for the horn. If one were to reread the part where Ghost and Jon find the bundle, you can tell that Ghost is acting funny and leading Jon to it... may or maynot be Bloodraven (I tend to think no).

Sam is training at the Citadel and we all know that the maesters forge a metal link as their studies go on and bronze is the third link... the link for astronomy and a metal of the north. Sam will be working with bronze in the very place that has tons of knowledge about the "magic" of the north (that they are trying to keep out of the hands of the general public).

Clash. Jon 4: "Beneath the dragonglass was an old warhorn, made from an auroch's horn and banded in bronze. Jon shook the dirt from inside it, and a stream of arrowheads fell out. He let them fall, and pulled up a corner of the cloth the weapons had been wrapped in, rubbing it between his fingers. Good wool, thick, a double weave, damp but not rotted. It could not have been long in the ground. And it was dark. He seized a handful and pulled it close to the torch. Not dark. Black."

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On 3/10/2016 at 8:17 AM, Lordsteve666 said:

...

Now it could be that it was stollen and was being taken north to give to the Others? But why has it taken so long to get it to them, unless it was forgotten over the millennia.  And would someone stealing it to give to the Others really burry it in a cashe of weapons that would be deadly to the people you hope to find it?

...snipped for length...

I tend to think that a ranger found it, and the dragonglass, and then that person was captured and had to make a hasty burial of it to help keep it out of the hands of his impressing captors. Who was that person... I have no idea but we are missing a few rangers in recent days :dunno:

Jon does describe the wool as not being old or rotten... and black.

Clash. Jon 4: "Beneath the dragonglass was an old warhorn, made from an auroch's horn and banded in bronze. Jon shook the dirt from inside it, and a stream of arrowheads fell out. He let them fall, and pulled up a corner of the cloth the weapons had been wrapped in, rubbing it between his fingers. Good wool, thick, a double weave, damp but not rotted. It could not have been long in the ground. And it was dark. He seized a handful and pulled it close to the torch. Not dark. Black.

Even before Jon stood and shook it out, he knew what he had: the black cloak of a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch."

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On 3/10/2016 at 11:16 AM, DarkSister1001 said:

I think most readers believe it to be the one Sam has as @Blind Beth the Cat Lady mentioned or it's just lost. 

I swear to the Gods I BETTER get to see a gd ice spider crawling over it first!

Bwahahaha!  Seriously!

OH HELL YES!!! :cheers:

I want full-on arachnophobia!

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3 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I tend to think that a ranger found it, and the dragonglass, and then that person was captured and had to make a hasty burial of it to help keep it out of the hands of his impressing captors. Who was that person... I have no idea but we are missing a few rangers in recent days :dunno:

Jon does describe the wool as not being old or rotten... and black.

Clash. Jon 4: "Beneath the dragonglass was an old warhorn, made from an auroch's horn and banded in bronze. Jon shook the dirt from inside it, and a stream of arrowheads fell out. He let them fall, and pulled up a corner of the cloth the weapons had been wrapped in, rubbing it between his fingers. Good wool, thick, a double weave, damp but not rotted. It could not have been long in the ground. And it was dark. He seized a handful and pulled it close to the torch. Not dark. Black.

Even before Jon stood and shook it out, he knew what he had: the black cloak of a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch."

I think it was Coldhands who left it. In the preceding passages, there is some suggestive text (which i can't quote right now) that implies the Dead may be near. Ghost then leads Jon to the cache. Coldhands (Or another creature like him) having left the cache there would fit with the Dead being present. 

As to why there is a horn in the first place, it could also be that the Wall and Horn come from different sources. The person who built the Wall did not necessarily create the Horn. Perhaps it was made by the Others? Or even the Wildlings, once the purpose of the wall was forgotten and they decided they wanted to get past the wall and go south.

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4 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I think it was Coldhands who left it. In the preceding passages, there is some suggestive text (which i can't quote right now) that implies the Dead may be near. Ghost then leads Jon to the cache. Coldhands (Or another creature like him) having left the cache there would fit with the Dead being present. 

As to why there is a horn in the first place, it could also be that the Wall and Horn come from different sources. The person who built the Wall did not necessarily create the Horn. Perhaps it was made by the Others? Or even the Wildlings, once the purpose of the wall was forgotten and they decided they wanted to get past the wall and go south.

I tend to think it was Benjen, but hesitate to say so because of all the instant eye rolling his name conjures anymore. Although, Coldhands is also plausible because he does end up having those connections with Sam and Bran later. 

First, I do think Benjen is Ned-dead. 

But far as the bundle and Benjen, the bundle seems like it was a collection of quickly gathered items and was buried in a very clear calling card of a Nights Watch cloak. It also seemed to be buried in a shallow hole (or whatever) since Jon could basically wipe away the top covering layers. That to me says it was done in a hurry.

 Death was near and that could be the same White Walker "scouts" that got Waymar Royce and the two other rangers that were with Benjen when they all disappeared. And also the same ones that are probably communicating with Craster... But that's another thread. Jon could be the "bad guy" in their own prophecy and need Jon for whatever reason. 

So I think Benjen found or acquired the contents, knew the value of the glass and the horn, and then the  "scouts" found him (he is very Stark/ Jon looking). Benjen, knowing the scouts found him and his men, he hid the contents in his own cloak. Benjen was then tested and killed like Waymar and the other two were sent as warnings. 

If I remember correctly, Coldhands still has his cloak right? 

My tinfoil is heavy with this one :D

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On 12 March 2016 at 1:20 PM, The Skinner said:

I don't think that the horn was designed to tear down the wall. After all like the other posters said, that's a dumb idea. 

It is the horn of Joramun after all, and Joramun was the King beyond the Wall during the reign of the Nights King, when he allied with Brandon the Breaker to defeat him. 

The Nights King was the 13th LC of the NW, that implies that the wall was already up when Joramun was King. But did Joramun create the horn or find it? I think that's a better question. 

My idea of it is that the wards in the wall are what break when the horn is blown, I mean it's gotta be loud enough to wake giants from the earth. 

The Others are Ice creatures, why does a massive wall of ice stop them? Magic duh. Without the wards I suspect that the others won't have too much trouble with the wall.

 I agree. I even dreamt once that the 'ice spiders, big as hounds' are WW or wights, as in  crawling up the Wall on all fours. :uhoh:

Also agree with the magic wards, but what maintains the wards in place? 

A Dance with Dragons - Bran I 

The ranger made no move to obey.

"He's dead." Bran could taste the bile in his throat. "Meera, he's some dead thing. The monsters cannot pass so long as the Wall stands and the men of the Night's Watch stay true, that's what Old Nan used to say. He came to meet us at the Wall, but he could not pass. He sent Sam instead, with that wildling girl." 

Meera's gloved hand tightened around the shaft of her frog spear. "Who sent you? Who is this three-eyed crow?"

ETA: I don't think the HoJ will bring down the Wall. But I also think it does... something. In fact, I think it may have already. Maybe it's not broken; not as in, 'not working'. When Jon blew it, it could have done something we're as yet unaware of/haven't connected the dots. 

I'll pay special attention to whatever else is going on before and after the Jon chapter in question on my current re-read. 

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I like this theory!! It would be really cool if Bennjen Stark found it and is on his way to the great other with it! I know it is kind of contradictory given the Stark connection to the Wall, but where has this connection come from, many many years have past since the first men of the nights watch and even this cannot be traced. The nights king was also a Stark, it all has some weird connection. 

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