A hypothetical conversation between Rhaegar and Jon

[Cyrus1234]

Hi everyone

I was just wondering about this fun idea the other day and i just wanted to share it with you.If by any chance Jon ever meets his true father,Rhaegar, in a vision or a dream what would the conservation be like? What would Rhaegar tell him? How would Jon react to seeing him and realizing the truth about his heritage? sorry if this was discussed before;i haven't been posting for a while and i haven't been in touch with the recent asoiaf forum topics.I know this is not really the most serious topic but i would be happy to know your thoughts on this matter.Thank you.

[Company of the Cat]

"Jon, I am your father."

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Jon I am your Father 

Ned never told you what happened to your father?

He told me enough! He told me the he is my father

 I am your father!

No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!

Search your feelings Jon, you know  it to be true.

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[JPT]

  Given that so much of Jon's sense of identity is built on;

a - he's a bastard

b - Ned is his father

  I'm guessing there will be much shouting involved.  Assuming that Rhaegar is indeed his father (which I think most of us do), I can't think of any reason for Jon to have any respect or sympathy for him, or to feel anything except anger and betrayal:  He never knew Lyanna, has no instinctive loyalty to the Targaryans and has had to face much worse stuff than Rhaegar (another stranger) ever did.  My guess is that the conversation would go something like this;

R - Jon, I'm your father

J - No you're not

R - Yes I am

J - Well, beyond what I can inherit from this and the subsequent good I could do with it, I don't really care.  I'm a Stark.

R - that's what your mother said you'd say!

 

(I'd have gone with the Star Wars quote too but the other two beat me to it!)

[Dorian Martell]

35 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Jon I am your Father 

Ned never told you what happened to your father.

He told me enough! He told me the he is my father

 I am your father.

No. No. That's not true. That's impossible!

Search your feelings Jon, you know  it to be true.

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!

/thread

all further replies are nothing after this one 

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

I don't think Rhaegar was Jon's father.  He may have already met him, or possibly meet him in the future - I haven't decided yet whether Howland, Benjen, or Ned are his father, but those three seem more likely than Rhaegar.  I also think it might have been Arthur Dayne and he met him (and killed him) already, going by the name Qhorin.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

7 minutes ago, Byrnard Sandors said:

I don't think Rhaegar was Jon's father.  He may have already met him, or possibly meet him in the future - I haven't decided yet whether Howland, Benjen, or Ned are his father, but those three seem more likely than Rhaegar.  I also think it might have been Arthur Dayne and he met him (and killed him) already, going by the name Qhorin.

Yes is more likely that someone who hadn't seen Lyanna for at least a year, instead of someone who was with her until almost a month before she gave birth, can be the father of her child. We all know how FMwomen's pregnancy lasted more that twelve months,.

[Dorian Martell]

30 minutes ago, Byrnard Sandors said:

I don't think Rhaegar was Jon's father.  He may have already met him, or possibly meet him in the future - I haven't decided yet whether Howland, Benjen, or Ned are his father, but those three seem more likely than Rhaegar.  I also think it might have been Arthur Dayne and he met him (and killed him) already, going by the name Qhorin.

You should check out my theory that the great other is the bastard child of Megatron and Optimus Prime. It is at least as legit as Jon's father being a man who has not seen Jon's mother in well over a year. 

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

49 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Yes is more likely that someone who hadn't seen Lyanna for at least a year, instead of someone who was with her until almost a month before she gave birth, can be the father of her child. We all know how FMwomen's pregnancy lasted more that twelve months,.

We don't know where all those possible fathers were during the timeframe (Arthur was possibly there when she died), nor do we know the exact time Jon was born.  There are hints that there were deceptions regarding his age, possibly to reassure Catelyn that Robb was the firstborn, possibly to cover for how he was conceived.

Also, Lyanna may not have been his mother.  R+L=J is based on a lot of assumptions, which are based on R+L=J.  A lot of circular reasoning required by those who have faith that Jon is a secret prince.

 

[Eggshell Joe]

Mance: Jon, I am your father..

Jon: Wait, what?

Mance: ..and I'm actually Rhaegar Targaryen..

Jon: Huh?

Mance: ..and your mother was Lyanna Stark..

Jon: blank stare

Mance: .. and Ned raised you as his own to protect your heritage, but you're actually the true heir to the Iron Throne.. and Winterfell, as it were.

Jon: But.. 

Mance: It's a long story. 40 years ago, I had a vision that the Others and dragons would both be returning to our world. I needed to defend the realm. I needed heirs with Valyrian blood to mount those dragons against the Others. You have an older half-brother on my side, his name is Aegon. Your half sister died because of my errors. And Aemon Steel-song, my baby that you sent away, he is also your half brother. You're a special case, Jon. You have dragon blood from me and the blood of the First Men from your mother. You can warg beasts and ride dragons. You are the prince that was promised, and together we will lead the realms of men in the battle for the Dawn and our survival. You also have an aunt named Daenarys, and Stannis Baratheon.. he's your cousin.

Jon: But..

Mance: I met your mother at Harrenhal. I was already married to Elia of Dorne but Lyanna was fierce and won my heart. I was compelled by the prophecy and by my lust for her and we eloped like idiots. Your uncle Brandon and my idiot cousin Robert Baratheon thought I kidnapped Lyanna. Brandon went to King's Landing and my idiot father killed your uncle and grandfather while we were eloping. By the time I got back, the North and Stormlands had called their banners against my family. At that point, too many pieces were moving and I had no choice but to meet Robert in battle. I left your mother under trusted guard at a place called the Tower of Joy in Dorne. I realized the mess I had made and knew I couldn't pacify Robert, so I faked my death on the Trident using the same magic I used to become the Lord of Bones and Abel. You've seen me do it, this type of illusion magic is real. 

After the Trident, I fled to the Shadow Tower to plan my next moves. With Targaryen loyalists being sent to the Wall in droves, I felt like I would be discovered, and I knew the Free Folk north of the Wall were in existential danger when the Others came. I spend the next 16 years uniting the Free Folk. I visited you in Winterfell occasionally to watch you grow. Ned Stark found your mother at the Tower of Joy. She died giving birth to you. She explained the situation to Ned and made him promise to raise you and keep your identity secret. 

There's so much more to tell you, but you should know, I'm proud of you.

Jon: But you were cremated as is custom for fallen Targaryens..

Mance: No. I wasn't. Let's go, the realm is in danger and we have work to do!

[Leonardo]

1 hour ago, Byrnard Sandors said:

We don't know where all those possible fathers were during the timeframe (Arthur was possibly there when she died), nor do we know the exact time Jon was born.  There are hints that there were deceptions regarding his age, possibly to reassure Catelyn that Robb was the firstborn, possibly to cover for how he was conceived.

Also, Lyanna may not have been his mother.  R+L=J is based on a lot of assumptions, which are based on R+L=J.  A lot of circular reasoning required by those who have faith that Jon is a secret prince.

 

We know it was within a month of the sack of KL, as GRRM has said

[Melisandre's White Pubes]

5 hours ago, Leonardo said:

We know it was within a month of the sack of KL, as GRRM has said

And how long was Jon's mother pregnant with him?  Where was she when he was conceived?  And where was Benjen when he was conceived?  How about Howland?  Arthur?

Too many unknowns to rule out everyone but Rhaegar.  We don't even know with certainty who his mother is... Everybody assumed it was Lyanna, but why couldn't it have been Ashara?  Or someone else?

Acting like R+L=J is certain is foolish.

 

[TimJames]

"I am not just some cyvasse piece for your mad prophecy! You know nothing about duty and you know nothing about love. I am Jon Snow! I will never be Jon Targaryen, and I will NEVER abandon my oaths for the sake of a Southron Throne. Begone, before I kill you a second time!"

[Cyrus1234]

"I am not just some cyvasse piece for your mad prophecy! You know nothing about duty and you know nothing about love. I am Jon Snow! I will never be Jon Targaryen, and I will abandon my oaths for the sake of a Southron Throne. Begone, before I kill you a second time!"

Exactly the type I was looking for.

[Neds Secret]

8 hours ago, Eggshell Joe said:

Mance: Jon, I am your father..

Jon: Wait, what?

Mance: ..and I'm actually Rhaegar Targaryen..

Jon: Huh?

Mance: ..and your mother was Lyanna Stark..

Jon: blank stare

Mance: .. and Ned raised you as his own to protect your heritage, but you're actually the true heir to the Iron Throne.. and Winterfell, as it were.

Jon: But.. 

Mance: It's a long story. 40 years ago, I had a vision that the Others and dragons would both be returning to our world. I needed to defend the realm. I needed heirs with Valyrian blood to mount those dragons against the Others. You have an older half-brother on my side, his name is Aegon. Your half sister died because of my errors. And Aemon Steel-song, my baby that you sent away, he is also your half brother. You're a special case, Jon. You have dragon blood from me and the blood of the First Men from your mother. You can warg beasts and ride dragons. You are the prince that was promised, and together we will lead the realms of men in the battle for the Dawn and our survival. You also have an aunt named Daenarys, and Stannis Baratheon.. he's your cousin.

Jon: But..

Mance: I met your mother at Harrenhal. I was already married to Elia of Dorne but Lyanna was fierce and won my heart. I was compelled by the prophecy and by my lust for her and we eloped like idiots. Your uncle Brandon and my idiot cousin Robert Baratheon thought I kidnapped Lyanna. Brandon went to King's Landing and my idiot father killed your uncle and grandfather while we were eloping. By the time I got back, the North and Stormlands had called their banners against my family. At that point, too many pieces were moving and I had no choice but to meet Robert in battle. I left your mother under trusted guard at a place called the Tower of Joy in Dorne. I realized the mess I had made and knew I couldn't pacify Robert, so I faked my death on the Trident using the same magic I used to become the Lord of Bones and Abel. You've seen me do it, this type of illusion magic is real. 

After the Trident, I fled to the Shadow Tower to plan my next moves. With Targaryen loyalists being sent to the Wall in droves, I felt like I would be discovered, and I knew the Free Folk north of the Wall were in existential danger when the Others came. I spend the next 16 years uniting the Free Folk. I visited you in Winterfell occasionally to watch you grow. Ned Stark found your mother at the Tower of Joy. She died giving birth to you. She explained the situation to Ned and made him promise to raise you and keep your identity secret. 

There's so much more to tell you, but you should know, I'm proud of you.

Jon: But you were cremated as is custom for fallen Targaryens..

Mance: No. I wasn't. Let's go, the realm is in danger and we have work to do!

Awesome, that's simplified an awful lot for me, if only GRRM could explain things so simply and easily I would not need to spend so much time reading the damn books, they're long and take a lot of time to read!

[LadyoftheNorth72]

If it's possible to punch someone in a vision, I think Jon would knock Rhaegar on his ass and tell him there's quite a bit more to being a father than an act most of the world's creatures can manage, and that he got all the rest from his true father, Ned Stark. Then he would stalk away with more pride in the man who raised him than ever, because that one little "except for fathering me" would finally be gone. 

We know how Jon feels about running around creating illegitimate children. 

[Stubby]

[MOD]

Please don't make this thread another version of who is Jon's father.

I'm sure the topic can be discussed as the hypothetical it was apparently intended to be.

[/MOD]

[janp8]

13 hours ago, Eggshell Joe said:

Mance: Jon, I am your father..

Jon: Wait, what?

Mance: ..and I'm actually Rhaegar Targaryen..

Jon: Huh?

Mance: ..and your mother was Lyanna Stark..

Jon: blank stare

Mance: .. and Ned raised you as his own to protect your heritage, but you're actually the true heir to the Iron Throne.. and Winterfell, as it were.

Jon: But.. 

Mance: It's a long story. 40 years ago, I had a vision that the Others and dragons would both be returning to our world. I needed to defend the realm. I needed heirs with Valyrian blood to mount those dragons against the Others. You have an older half-brother on my side, his name is Aegon. Your half sister died because of my errors. And Aemon Steel-song, my baby that you sent away, he is also your half brother. You're a special case, Jon. You have dragon blood from me and the blood of the First Men from your mother. You can warg beasts and ride dragons. You are the prince that was promised, and together we will lead the realms of men in the battle for the Dawn and our survival. You also have an aunt named Daenarys, and Stannis Baratheon.. he's your cousin.

Jon: But..

Mance: I met your mother at Harrenhal. I was already married to Elia of Dorne but Lyanna was fierce and won my heart. I was compelled by the prophecy and by my lust for her and we eloped like idiots. Your uncle Brandon and my idiot cousin Robert Baratheon thought I kidnapped Lyanna. Brandon went to King's Landing and my idiot father killed your uncle and grandfather while we were eloping. By the time I got back, the North and Stormlands had called their banners against my family. At that point, too many pieces were moving and I had no choice but to meet Robert in battle. I left your mother under trusted guard at a place called the Tower of Joy in Dorne. I realized the mess I had made and knew I couldn't pacify Robert, so I faked my death on the Trident using the same magic I used to become the Lord of Bones and Abel. You've seen me do it, this type of illusion magic is real. 

After the Trident, I fled to the Shadow Tower to plan my next moves. With Targaryen loyalists being sent to the Wall in droves, I felt like I would be discovered, and I knew the Free Folk north of the Wall were in existential danger when the Others came. I spend the next 16 years uniting the Free Folk. I visited you in Winterfell occasionally to watch you grow. Ned Stark found your mother at the Tower of Joy. She died giving birth to you. She explained the situation to Ned and made him promise to raise you and keep your identity secret. 

There's so much more to tell you, but you should know, I'm proud of you.

Jon: But you were cremated as is custom for fallen Targaryens..

Mance: No. I wasn't. Let's go, the realm is in danger and we have work to do!

great ...liked this a lot

[janp8]

13 hours ago, Eggshell Joe said:

Mance: Jon, I am your father..

Jon: Wait, what?

Mance: ..and I'm actually Rhaegar Targaryen..

Jon: Huh?

Mance: ..and your mother was Lyanna Stark..

Jon: blank stare

Mance: .. and Ned raised you as his own to protect your heritage, but you're actually the true heir to the Iron Throne.. and Winterfell, as it were.

Jon: But.. 

Mance: It's a long story. 40 years ago, I had a vision that the Others and dragons would both be returning to our world. I needed to defend the realm. I needed heirs with Valyrian blood to mount those dragons against the Others. You have an older half-brother on my side, his name is Aegon. Your half sister died because of my errors. And Aemon Steel-song, my baby that you sent away, he is also your half brother. You're a special case, Jon. You have dragon blood from me and the blood of the First Men from your mother. You can warg beasts and ride dragons. You are the prince that was promised, and together we will lead the realms of men in the battle for the Dawn and our survival. You also have an aunt named Daenarys, and Stannis Baratheon.. he's your cousin.

Jon: But..

Mance: I met your mother at Harrenhal. I was already married to Elia of Dorne but Lyanna was fierce and won my heart. I was compelled by the prophecy and by my lust for her and we eloped like idiots. Your uncle Brandon and my idiot cousin Robert Baratheon thought I kidnapped Lyanna. Brandon went to King's Landing and my idiot father killed your uncle and grandfather while we were eloping. By the time I got back, the North and Stormlands had called their banners against my family. At that point, too many pieces were moving and I had no choice but to meet Robert in battle. I left your mother under trusted guard at a place called the Tower of Joy in Dorne. I realized the mess I had made and knew I couldn't pacify Robert, so I faked my death on the Trident using the same magic I used to become the Lord of Bones and Abel. You've seen me do it, this type of illusion magic is real. 

After the Trident, I fled to the Shadow Tower to plan my next moves. With Targaryen loyalists being sent to the Wall in droves, I felt like I would be discovered, and I knew the Free Folk north of the Wall were in existential danger when the Others came. I spend the next 16 years uniting the Free Folk. I visited you in Winterfell occasionally to watch you grow. Ned Stark found your mother at the Tower of Joy. She died giving birth to you. She explained the situation to Ned and made him promise to raise you and keep your identity secret. 

There's so much more to tell you, but you should know, I'm proud of you.

Jon: But you were cremated as is custom for fallen Targaryens..

Mance: No. I wasn't. Let's go, the realm is in danger and we have work to do!

great ...liked this a lot  

[b00gieman]

I wrote this back in June of last year:

http://howthegameofthronesends.blogspot.com/2015/06/isjon-snow-really-dead-myfriends-know.html