F1 2016

[polishgenius]

15 hours ago, red snow said:

Hamilton raised a very good point about extended use of the safety car over the radio which was these cars don't handle well slowly and once the heat goes out of the diva tyres there's very little grip.

Especially notable yesterday when temperatures were seemingly dropping a lot faster than was expected. And I haven't seen tyres dropping off a cliff as dramatically as I can't remember which mixture but the one where Erikson and Hamilton both fucked it on for a while.




Vertappen is just an angry little twerp who can't handle the fact that as of the moment Riccardio is clearly a better driver than him. He's got the potential to be a great but until he gets control of his ego and stops fucking double-moving and swerving under braking he'll never actually be one.


Alonso's still the best driver on the grid in my mind. He's pulling out miracles on a near-weekly basis.

[Werthead]

19 hours ago, 6649er said:

I saw Ricciardo being faster then Verstappen. For Verstappen to be holding off Ricciardo the team lost track time. That's not what the team would like to see. Verstappen virtually drove Ricciardo into the barrier earlier in the race when he had clearly got past. He just can't accept being passed and goes too far trying to defend. Last race, Ricciardo was applauded on how he came from nowhere to stick up the inside of Hamilton. He did the exact same thing here before Verstappen moved illegally and they crashed.

I think the team have some responsibility here. Both Red Bulls were suffering from an ERS problem but Ricciardo's issue was more intermittent and Verstappen's was almost constant. Even if Verstappen was still going strong, Ricciardo clearly had the edge. In that circumstance they should have told Verstappen to let Ricciardo go. They could have switched back later on if the ERS cleared up but as it stood Ricciardo would have been well-placed to have capitalised on Vettel and Bottas's later problems (hindsight, obviously, but every team's mantra is to get as far up as possible just in case something happens) and probably scored a podium.

[ants]

Verstappen drove pretty dangerously, and should be talked to. 

Also Horner confirmed both drivers had been told to be more careful. 

[williamjm]

I thought this article about Alonso managing to get 7th place despite major damage to the car was an interesting read. It did get overlooked a bit given how much else was going on in the race, but it's another example of his ability. Maybe one day we'll get to see him in a car capable of winning races again, although that doesn't look likely to be this year's McLaren.

[red snow]

On 02/05/2018 at 10:23 PM, williamjm said:

I thought this article about Alonso managing to get 7th place despite major damage to the car was an interesting read. It did get overlooked a bit given how much else was going on in the race, but it's another example of his ability. Maybe one day we'll get to see him in a car capable of winning races again, although that doesn't look likely to be this year's McLaren.

Mclaren will probably have a race winning car the moment Alonso leaves. It's ridiculous how he's always there for any scraps available and I agree it seems to be sheer force of will that maximises these opportunities.

Thankfully I've heard nothing more about the rumour Alonso is being replaced by Lando (Calrissian) Norris next season which popped up 2 weeks ago in a spanish newspaper (guessing it's the spanish version of the Sun/mirror). More likely is that Lando is getting a drive next season but only if Alonso leaves. Vandoorne is out if Alonso chooses to stay. That said I wonder how much money Mclaren have to spare for Alonso given the loss of sponsorship and lack of success over the last 3 years? Maybe they'll have to let Alonso go for financial reasons. Or because he curses any non renault team he's in?

 

[Lord of Oop North]

Spoiler

 

Spanish GP was a total snooze.

Vettel couldn't manage his tyres and Ferrari dropping points with that pitstop. Really poor.

Kimi's number 1 fan is disappointed again - will he be in Monaco?!

Alonso continues to prove that he will out drive his car. McLaren needs to turn this around - but it just seems hopeless. Even with the new upgrade, they finished a lap down.

[Werthead]

Monaco this weekend could be interesting. For a track where overtaking is impossible, it has an odd habit of throwing up a result at odds with qualifying.

The silly season rumours swirling again (although, thanks to Ricciardo's ups and downs, that's been going on since the start of this season). This one is that Leclerc will replace Raikkonen at Ferrari next year and Ricciardo may be forced to resign with Red Bull for a lack of other options (as Bottas has impressed Mercedes with his recent form). Although I think it's more plausible that Leclerc will go to Haas in place of Grosjean (unless Grosjean can turn his form around quickly).

Another interesting possibility is that Hamilton has not re-signed with Mercedes yet because he wants Bottas to be signed up as well, maybe for 2-3 years, as he feels very comfortable with Bottas as his team-mate and he doesn't want any surprises like Ricciardo showing up and racing hard with him.

[Werthead]

Verstappen continues to make a prat out of himself. Not sure what's going on here, he seems to be a far worse driver than last year. Red Bull must be rethinking the wisdom of that long-term contract now.

[red snow]

6 hours ago, Werthead said:

Verstappen continues to make a prat out of himself. Not sure what's going on here, he seems to be a far worse driver than last year. Red Bull must be rethinking the wisdom of that long-term contract now.

It's like he's deciding to have his rookie year 2 year's after starting off like a polished pro. It seems to be a similar bizarre lack of form that has infected Grosjean too.

Ricciardo owned the track in much the same way that Hamilton did in Barcelona. Mercedes and ferrari must have been relieved at Verstappen's mistake.

[lmanion]

Great drive by Ricciardo to hold out for 50 laps with no battery power any other track on the calender he would have been a sitting duck but he was able to do enough between the 2 'overtaking' spots at monaco to keep seb at bay. Also aided by everyone elses tyres graining badly. Well deserved after completely bossing the track the entire weekend

[Loge]

On 5/26/2018 at 6:41 PM, Werthead said:

Verstappen continues to make a prat out of himself. Not sure what's going on here, he seems to be a far worse driver than last year. Red Bull must be rethinking the wisdom of that long-term contract now.

Daniil Kvyat could tell you a thing or two about how much a contract with Red Bull is worth when Helmut Marko is unhappy with your performance.

On the race, great performance by Ricciardo, but he shouldn't have been able to maintain his position with that much loss of power. And another appalling performance by Williams. And another race where McLaren didn't look particularly great either. With the same engine as Red Bull. Good results for Gasly (with Honda engine) and Ocon.

[Werthead]

Good control by Leclerc as well. When he realised the brakes had gone he tried to squeeze the car down the inside of Hartly and even bounced off the wall to try to shed speed (not sure I'd want to do that). Not enough to spare Hartly but he did at least try to minimise the damage. He's impressing even in a disaster.

Rumours that Hartly has to step up in Toro Rosso or he's out, and with Gasly Red Bull now have a viable replacement driver for Ricciardo so he needs to work out what he wants to do sharpish.

[red snow]

Good race even for a procession. Can understand Hamilton's damning words about the race and I think without us knowing that ricciardo had problems it would have been snooze worthy.

BBC reported Hamilton has said it's unlikely ricciardo will go to mercedes which I read as "Hamilton has said he doesn't want Daniel as a team mate". Understandable but a shame.

I suspect Vettel has a similar veto with Ferrari. In both cases it seems if Kimi/bottas go there are junior drivers they'd rather have.

I read ricciardo is basically wanting confirmation on red bull engines for next season. I can understand apprehension over Honda supplying in 2019.

I also wonder if red bull made a mistake giving max a contract which maybe left Daniel feeling he was the number 2 driver? I think they are being realistic and getting behind him now.

Ricciardo best bet probably is to stick with red bull and wait for Hamilton and Vettel to retire or for one of the other teams to start showing more form. Wasn't sure if they just meant new engines or new engines with upgrades for Canada but that could provide him with useful info.

While it's good for the sport we have a surplus of great drivers it is frustrating that out of 3 competitive teams there's only 4 seats available as it's clear only red bull tolerate having two equally skilled drivers. It's one of the reasons it's a shame McLaren aren't more competitive as they have a good history of having two excellent drivers at once. 

Ferrari never have and I think mercedes changed their minds when they had trouble handling Hamilton and rosberg (although I still think Hamilton is a better racer). I only see Vettel and Hamilton have strong competion if a junior driver gets in and surprises everyone. A bit like ricciardo did with Vettel.  

[Werthead]

Yeah, Bottas has pulled it together after a dodgy start to the season (his iffy showing this race was down to an experimental tyre strategy, Merc have admitted that was on them and it didn't come off) so assuming no major collapse in form I don't see a reason why Merc wouldn't renew. There's also the fact that Hamilton may be angling for a 2-year contract rather than 3 so he can assess the impact of the 2021 regulations. If he wants Bottas as his team-mate and Bottas has been angling for a 2-year contract as well, it makes sense to join up all the dots and give both drivers a 2-year contract just to settle everything down.

That shuts out Ricciardo. If he goes to Ferrari he knows it'll be as a #2 driver, and Ferrari have to know he'll be hard to handle in that role. They can retain Raikkonen and promote Leclerc to Haas instead, or bring Leclerc up straight away to the A-team if Kimi retires. Ferrari see the value of Ricciardo (the Italian heritage also helps their brand) and they've certainly seen the value of having a #2 driver who can reliably step up when the #1 has a bad weekend, but they can also see potential problems in clashing with Vettel. I also don't get the sense that Vettel is personally liked at Ferrari the way Schumacher was; Vettel is unlikely to tolerate a switch of positions and could walk if he doesn't feel he's being catered to (and 4 world championships is more than 99% of F1 drivers have ever achieved).

From Ricciardo's POV, Ferrari have also spent two seasons starting off well and then falling off the pace, and this year it seems to have happened this year even earlier. Red Bull have also spent several seasons starting poorly and then picking up a lot in mid-season development and winning races, and that's actually happened a lot earlier this year as well. So right now Red Bull looks like a brighter prospect than Ferrari. If Mercedes closes the door, he's better off staying at Red Bull with a good new contract (and Verstappen potentially swapping with Gasly if he keeps up this poor form: when Marko starts criticising a driver, the driver knows he's in trouble).

[lmanion]

Unfortunately the only place for ricciardo is at red bull i think if honda continue to improve with torro rosso i can see red bull being competitive next year with a honda which would be great for the sport

[red snow]

16 hours ago, Werthead said:

Yeah, Bottas has pulled it together after a dodgy start to the season (his iffy showing this race was down to an experimental tyre strategy, Merc have admitted that was on them and it didn't come off) so assuming no major collapse in form I don't see a reason why Merc wouldn't renew. There's also the fact that Hamilton may be angling for a 2-year contract rather than 3 so he can assess the impact of the 2021 regulations. If he wants Bottas as his team-mate and Bottas has been angling for a 2-year contract as well, it makes sense to join up all the dots and give both drivers a 2-year contract just to settle everything down.

That shuts out Ricciardo. If he goes to Ferrari he knows it'll be as a #2 driver, and Ferrari have to know he'll be hard to handle in that role. They can retain Raikkonen and promote Leclerc to Haas instead, or bring Leclerc up straight away to the A-team if Kimi retires. Ferrari see the value of Ricciardo (the Italian heritage also helps their brand) and they've certainly seen the value of having a #2 driver who can reliably step up when the #1 has a bad weekend, but they can also see potential problems in clashing with Vettel. I also don't get the sense that Vettel is personally liked at Ferrari the way Schumacher was; Vettel is unlikely to tolerate a switch of positions and could walk if he doesn't feel he's being catered to (and 4 world championships is more than 99% of F1 drivers have ever achieved).

From Ricciardo's POV, Ferrari have also spent two seasons starting off well and then falling off the pace, and this year it seems to have happened this year even earlier. Red Bull have also spent several seasons starting poorly and then picking up a lot in mid-season development and winning races, and that's actually happened a lot earlier this year as well. So right now Red Bull looks like a brighter prospect than Ferrari. If Mercedes closes the door, he's better off staying at Red Bull with a good new contract (and Verstappen potentially swapping with Gasly if he keeps up this poor form: when Marko starts criticising a driver, the driver knows he's in trouble).

Ricciardo should probably sit tight and aim to take vettels position (although I'm fairly sure Hamilton would like a crack at Ferrari too).

It would be a shock to demote max as his talent is clear but red bull have shown they will do that if it's the case. Isn't sainz jr still a red bull guy too? 

Like you say 2021 could turn everything upside down again or at least turn into into an aero game rather than power again. In which case red bull is best place to be (unless Adrian newey changes team).

I think red bull are starting to realise ricciardo is currently a better package than Max and giving him more respect. It also helps the media are taking to ricciardo a lot more and not constantly hyping Max. I spent most of last season surprised at how overlooked ricciardo was by the paddock/sport in general. Pretty sure the two of them will be battling for world title at some point. 

[Werthead]

1 hour ago, red snow said:

Ricciardo should probably sit tight and aim to take vettels position (although I'm fairly sure Hamilton would like a crack at Ferrari too).

It would be a shock to demote max as his talent is clear but red bull have shown they will do that if it's the case. Isn't sainz jr still a red bull guy too? 

Like you say 2021 could turn everything upside down again or at least turn into into an aero game rather than power again. In which case red bull is best place to be (unless Adrian newey changes team).

I think red bull are starting to realise ricciardo is currently a better package than Max and giving him more respect. It also helps the media are taking to ricciardo a lot more and not constantly hyping Max. I spent most of last season surprised at how overlooked ricciardo was by the paddock/sport in general. Pretty sure the two of them will be battling for world title at some point. 

Renault are apparently in talks to take on Sainz full-time. Sainz wants the freedom to switch back to Red Bull if Ricciardo goes, but he's also weighing the odds of Renault seriously stepping up. Their improvement in form since last year is quite clear and if that continues, they can become players again. Red Bull I think are also keener on bringing up Gasly and putting another young gun in the Toro Rosso (or two, one of their periodic reboots, if they decide Hartly's not cutting it, as has been rumoured). Sainz seems to have gotten himself into that window of being too good and too experienced for Toro Rosso and perhaps not quite good enough/in Dr. Marko's good books enough to make it to Red Bull. But he's certainly a reserve option there. If he did go to Red Bull, it's a puzzle what Renault does (well, apart maybe from bring up Gasly themselves, but that depends on if Renault want to do Red Bull any favours).

I can't see Red Bull dropping Verstappen permanently as he does have talent, but I could see some temporary arrangement like swapping him into Toro Rosso for a few races as a bit of a shot across the bows. Marko does not play around when drivers start hurting the team and the brand, no matter how good they are on a good day, and Verstappen has not had a good day this season.

Quite good to see how solid the field is at the moment. Hartly hasn't impressed much, Ericsson is just sort of hanging out there and Sirotkin has been meh, but otherwise there's quite a lot of strength in the field. I am wondering if McLaren are cooling on Vandoorne as well, as he arrived with a lot of promise, put in some solid work but has been utterly trounced by Alonso this season.

[red snow]

I think vandoorne's mainly going to be around because he's probably cheap while Alonso is with the team and because I can't imagine many people are queueing up to drive there in the current era. I'm hope McLaren eventually bounce back but agree Renault is probably a safer bet at the moment for drivers willing to take a gamble on a potentially winning team. Eg if Renault can get any podiums this year it would suggest they are developing fast.

I think sainz would be wise to stay with them.

[Loge]

Apparently, none of Red Bull's junior drivers is ready for Formula 1, which is why they hired Hartley. If they fire him, they have to hire another driver from outside. In the German press there has been some speculation about Wehrlein, but that's probably wishful thinking. If they go with Honda for Red Bull as well as Toro Rosso, they might want a Japanese driver.

 

[Werthead]

6 hours ago, Loge said:

Apparently, none of Red Bull's junior drivers is ready for Formula 1, which is why they hired Hartley. If they fire him, they have to hire another driver from outside. In the German press there has been some speculation about Wehrlein, but that's probably wishful thinking. If they go with Honda for Red Bull as well as Toro Rosso, they might want a Japanese driver.

I heard that as well, but isn't the problem that there are none in the lower formulae with a superlicence, and the two closest to it are unlikely to get enough points this season to qualify?

Wehrlein was really highly rated and did reasonably well, it was surprising F1 let him go, but apparently he was a bit of a prima donna.