US Elections: When Murder isn't Murder

[TrackerNeil]

56 minutes ago, OnionAhaiReborn said:

A little earlier, he calls Clinton's views "far, far preferable to any of the Republican candidates." It's almost unimaginable to me that someone can read this as refusing to support the Democratic nominee, unless they're bound and determined to force his words into a preconceived narrative.

Well, if I am not mistaken, Sanders is not raising money for down-ballot Democrats*, which combined with the reply in the interview leads me to believe his allegiance is very much in doubt. And I also recall Sanders refusing to commit to support the Democratic nominee, although he does say he'll do "whatever he can" to defeat Trump, which is not necessarily the same thing. So there's a narrative for you.

*This also makes me wonder just what kind of revolution Sanders thinks is going to happen so that he can institute his agenda. 

[OnionAhaiReborn]

12 minutes ago, TrackerNeil said:

Well, if I am not mistaken, Sanders is not raising money for down-ballot Democrats*, which combined with the reply in the interview leads me to believe his allegiance is very much in doubt. And I also recall Sanders refusing to commit to support the Democratic nominee, although he does say he'll do "whatever he can" to defeat Trump, which is not necessarily the same thing. So there's a narrative for you.

*This also makes me wonder just what kind of revolution Sanders thinks is going to happen so that he can institute his agenda. 

Sanders has, in fact, raised money for down-ballot Democrats.As a little-known Senator from a small state prior to his run, he has not done as much as Clinton, one of the most prominent Democrats in the nation and even most famous people in the world. But he has been involved, and maybe we can wait and see what he does with his newfound prominence once he's no longer engaged in his own race to see what his commitment is to the political revolution he talks about.

You might "recall" Sanders refusing to support the Democratic nominee, but given that you read the Daily News interview as Sanders refusing to pledge to support the Democratic nominee- a request not even posed to him- I'm going to be extremely skeptical of your recollection until you provide some proof of this.

The idea that saying Clinton's views are far far preferable to any Republican and that he will do everything he can to prevent Trump or another right wing Republican from being elected is not the same thing as saying he'll support the Democratic nominee might be technically accurate if you're determined not to reach the obvious conclusion of those statements, but it's otherwise perfectly clear that he will support Clinton when she's the nominee.

[Tywin et al.]

Clinton and Sanders finally agree on a debate time. It will be on April 14th at 9 p.m. EST.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/04/politics/democratic-debate-brooklyn/

Also, Sanders raised $44,000,000 in March, nearly $15,000,000 more than Clinton.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/04/04/bernie-sanders-outraises-hillary-clinton-for-third-consecutive-month/

[Fez]

6 minutes ago, OnionAhaiReborn said:

Sanders has, in fact, raised money for down-ballot Democrats.As a little-known Senator from a small state prior to his run, he has not done as much as Clinton, one of the most prominent Democrats in the nation and even most famous people in the world. But he has been involved, and maybe we can wait and see what he does with his newfound prominence once he's no longer engaged in his own race to see what his commitment is to the political revolution he talks about.

A single appeal for a single candidate last August is hardly evidence that he's committed to raising money for down-ballot Democrats. The fact is, he's not doing nearly as much as he could. And its not just fundraising, which can take some degree of effort. He could even just have local politicians and candidates who support him be on stage at rallies, and he could give a quick shout out to them before launching into his stump speech; reminding his supporters that these are the sort of people who also need to be elected for his "revolution" to occur. That's the sort of basic party-building activity that Clinton does all the time, as do most major party candidates, that Sanders regularly neglects.

[Kalnak the Magnificent]

I didn't take it as him saying he wouldn't support Clinton. But there's so much more to be disappointed in in that article. Meh.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

11 minutes ago, Fez said:

A single appeal for a single candidate last August is hardly evidence that he's committed to raising money for down-ballot Democrats. The fact is, he's not doing nearly as much as he could. And its not just fundraising, which can take some degree of effort. He could even just have local politicians and candidates who support him be on stage at rallies, and he could give a quick shout out to them before launching into his stump speech; reminding his supporters that these are the sort of people who also need to be elected for his "revolution" to occur. That's the sort of basic party-building activity that Clinton does all the time, as do most major party candidates, that Sanders regularly neglects.

It's not a single appeal. It's a single example. Here's another.

I don't regularly watch Sanders' stump speeches. I doubt you do either. I know he has appeared with Lucy Flores, a supporter and a candidate for Congress in Nevada. I know last year he campaigned for Chuy Garcia in Chicago in his race against Rahm Emmanuel for Mayor. I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of every events he's done for or with another candidate. I think you have probably no idea either what kinds of shout outs he is giving before launching into his stump speech, but it doesn't stop you from making claims like this.

[TrackerNeil]

Actually, I just remembered why I steer clear of these Sanders debates. I'm going to withdraw everything I've said, not because I don't believe it, but because I just don't feel like getting into a debate over it. So carry on.

[Maithanet]

Trump releases plan for how to get Mexico to pay for The Wall.

Quote

Trump said he would threaten to change a rule under the USA Patriot Act antiterrorism law to cut off a portion of the funds sent to Mexico through money transfers, commonly known as remittances. The threat would be withdrawn if Mexico made “a one-time payment of $5-10 billion” to pay for the border wall, he wrote.

...

The odds of success for Trump’s proposal to pay for such a wall also are fraught with challenges. Although there is a shortcut in the Administrative Procedure Act that allows for “interim” regulations that take effect immediately without going through the regular public notice and comment process, there are limitations on that authority.

Based on the process for changes laid out in the Federal Register, Trump as president could potentially invoke a change by making the argument that illegal immigration is an emergency that must be addressed immediately or is a threat to public health or safety.

But such a rule would presumably apply to limiting wire transfers, canceling visas or raising visa fees — not about directly limiting immigration. That could make it harder for Trump to argue that any of those criteria meet the exceptions, according to some experts.

So, through a loophole in the Patriot Act, Trump would hold up all transfers of funds to Mexico indefinitely, until Mexico wires 5-10 billion dollars to the US.  He then justifies this type of strongarming with:

Quote

Trump ends with a scathing critique of Mexico, claiming that it has “taken advantage” of the United States for years through “gangs, drug traffickers and cartels” responsible for “the extraordinary daily cost of this criminal activity.”

Ah yes, poor America, always getting exploited by Mexico.  Just like that time Mexico took Oregon from us after the Mexican American War.

[Fez]

14 minutes ago, OnionAhaiReborn said:

It's not a single appeal. It's a single example. Here's another.

I don't regularly watch Sanders' stump speeches. I doubt you do either. I know he has appeared with Lucy Flores, a supporter and a candidate for Congress in Nevada. I know last year he campaigned for Chuy Garcia in Chicago in his race against Rahm Emmanuel for Mayor. I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of every events he's done for or with another candidate. I think you have probably no idea either what kinds of shout outs he is giving before launching into his stump speech, but it doesn't stop you from making claims like this.

You're right, I don't. But, as much as I dislike Daily Kos, I figure if any place would be knowledgable on what's going at Sanders' events, it would be them. And yet I notice that while there's tons of in-fighting in the comments, no one seems to refute these statements from that diary:

Quote

Ranging from his dismissive “We’ll see” when asked when he would start fundraising for Democrats, as he explicitly agreed to in writing when he signed on with the DNC to use our fundraising databases, infrastructure, monies, to never going out of his way to mention or introduce local politicians who are trying to wrestle seats in Congress away from entrenched Republicans in the various cities and states he holds his large rallies in, missed opportunities as that would help us all.  

and 

Quote

The issue of Bernie being less than helpful to Democrats needs to be brought up in the next debate.   Bernie can still do the right thing and divert some of his considerable funds to down ticket Democrats, or at the very least start asking his supporters at rallies and in fund raising letters to acknowledge the existence of good Democratic candidates (heck, he can just highlight the many great candidates who are strong Progressives in the varying states and ask his supporters to pledge to them).   But, it is probably not going to happen.  Bernie has no interest.   With Bernie “We’ll see” likely means “Never”.

I figure if any of the hundreds of the aggressively supportive Sanders backers commenting on that had any evidence refuting those claims, they'd have shared them.

[BloodRider]

18 hours ago, Stan the Man Baratheon said:

I am really happy with Drumpf's groundgame in Wisconsin, he has been doing atleast 3 rallies per day for the last 4-5 days. Hopefully it pays for him and he can then focus on demolishing Clinton. 

A very hardworking man. 

HA!  While he is busy getting smoke blown up his butt by yes men, Cruz has stolen all his delegates.

[Tywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

Trump releases plan for how to get Mexico to pay for The Wall.

So, through a loophole in the Patriot Act, Trump would hold up all transfers of funds to Mexico indefinitely, until Mexico wires 5-10 billion dollars to the US.  He then justifies this type of strongarming with:

Ah yes, poor America, always getting exploited by Mexico.  Just like that time Mexico took Oregon from us after the Mexican American War.

The scary part is I can see a lot of Republicans getting behind this line of thinking.

[lokisnow]

1 hour ago, BloodRider said:

HA!  While he is busy getting smoke blown up his butt by yes men, Cruz has stolen all his delegates.

dont forget sanders got more delegates in nevada than clinton a few days ago since more of his supporters showed up at the state delegate selecting convention than Clinton's did.

[Altherion]

2 hours ago, Maithanet said:

Trump releases plan for how to get Mexico to pay for The Wall.

So, through a loophole in the Patriot Act, Trump would hold up all transfers of funds to Mexico indefinitely, until Mexico wires 5-10 billion dollars to the US.

That's... actually less implausible than I thought his plan would be. The Patriot Act can be twisted to many ends. It won't work in reality, but it's not bad as far as campaigning material.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

1 hour ago, Fez said:

You're right, I don't. But, as much as I dislike Daily Kos, I figure if any place would be knowledgable on what's going at Sanders' events, it would be them. And yet I notice that while there's tons of in-fighting in the comments, no one seems to refute these statements from that diary:

and 

I figure if any of the hundreds of the aggressively supportive Sanders backers commenting on that had any evidence refuting those claims, they'd have shared them.

So your response to my specific examples is a blog post, and a purported* lack of rebuttal to the blog post in the comments section. I'm content that I've made my point, and we can agree to disagree.

*I'm not going to subject myself to reading all of the comments section.

[IheartIheartTesla]

Bernie Sanders isn't really a Democrat but needs to support Democratic down-ticket candidates while not receiving any help or endorsements from most Democrats is an impossible argument to win anyways.

Some of this is chicken and egg since Hillary Clinton and these other Democrats are already networked together and the mutual backscratching happens organically. The Democrats (of whom I am now officially a party member, yay!) need to clean house and fix their money raising efforts before criticizing someone who will help the party in the end.

[Commodore]

I'm watching WI exit poll results come in real time, Sanders is winning 63-37 (160 responses so far)

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Sanders and Clinton Agree on a Court Pick… in Today’s Wisconsin Primary



When Wisconsin Democrats gathered for their annual “Founder’s Day” dinner Saturday night, Clinton made a pitch for herself. But she took time to declare, “There is no place on any Supreme Court or any court in this country, no place at all for Rebecca Bradley’s decades-long track record of dangerous rhetoric against women, survivors of sexual assault and the LGBT community.”

“No to discrimination, no to hate speech and no to Bradley,” Clinton told the enthusiastic crowd.

The next night, at a rally in Madison, Bernie Sanders told thousands of cheering supporters, “I hope that a large voter turnout on Tuesday will help elect JoAnne Kloppenburg to the Supreme Court.”

[All-for-Joffrey]

12 hours ago, Stan the Man Baratheon said:

You are spot on sport!

Kindly explain to me what ground game means.

Ground game =/= rallies. Ground game is your campaign's ability to target likely voters and get them out to the polls on election days. This includes things data operations and door-to-door canvassing. The Trump campaign has never been good at this.

In fact, funny you should bring this up now, right after I read this article. Apparently Trump is laying off ground staff in key batleground states like Ohio and Florida. On top of that, his chief data operative has left (for reasons unknown) and his data operation is now being run by someone who finished their undergrad last year (in 2015) and has no prior work experience. Questions of whether Trump can get to 1,237 delegates or survive an open convention aside, how the hell does this man expect to win a general election by laying off ground staff in Ohio and Florida? Trust me Stan, this is not what a "winner" does in the general election.

[Kalnak the Magnificent]

Quote

Bernie Sanders isn't really a Democrat but needs to support Democratic down-ticket candidates while not receiving any help or endorsements from most Democrats is an impossible argument to win anyways.

Except that's not true, like, at all. He caucuses with democrats, received endorsements from the DNC, Obama and Reid, received funding from the DNC when running, made agreements with the democrats to not run a democratic candidate in his state against him, has a standing rule to vote on all procedural matters with the democrats unless he gets sign off from the whip...why wouldn't he be supporting the Democratic down-ticket candidates? They've been supporting him for quite a while now. 

[All-for-Joffrey]

12 minutes ago, OnionAhaiReborn said:

Sanders and Clinton Agree on a Court Pick… in Today’s Wisconsin Primary



 

I don't know why this is newsworthy or unexpected. Anyone who follows Wisconsin politics casually knows how important electing Kloppenburg is for Wisconsin liberals as a bulwark against Walker and his allies.

 

ETA: Actually, reading past the headline, it's a good analysis of the Wisconsin Supreme Court race.