Swordfish Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 12 hours ago, The Fallen said: I think you have this backwards. We make certain behavior criminal in order to fill the new private prisons being built. Tomato, tomato..... Again though, I don't think focusing just on private prisons is comprehensive enough. Reading that article left me sort of wondering if it was possible in general to be in a prison, guard or inmate. for any sustained period of time without being irrevocable changed in ways that are not a betterment for society. Obviously we can't abolish prisons altogether, but reducing the population significantly would allow you to improve them dramatically without additional investment, and it also allows you to be more discriminate in the people who work in them. it's a win win. Just end the friggin war on drugs already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 13 hours ago, Martell Spy said: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/cca-private-prisons-corrections-corporation-inmates-investigation-bauer My Four Months as a Private Prison Guard: A Mother Jones Investigation That's the article I posted that started this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Obama’s Big Flip-Flop to Save Obamacare A public option for the Affordable Care Act is back on the table. https://newrepublic.com/article/135040/obamas-big-flip-flop-save-obamacare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alguien Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Welp, it finally happened. Roger Ailes resigns. Adios, you hate-mongering, lying piece of filth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Just now, alguien said: Welp, it finally happened. Roger Ailes resigns. Adios, you hate-mongering, lying piece of filth. May history be as fair and balanced to him as he was to his enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fallen Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 On 7/14/2016 at 0:58 PM, Swordfish said: Tomato, tomato..... Again though, I don't think focusing just on private prisons is comprehensive enough. Reading that article left me sort of wondering if it was possible in general to be in a prison, guard or inmate. for any sustained period of time without being irrevocable changed in ways that are not a betterment for society. Obviously we can't abolish prisons altogether, but reducing the population significantly would allow you to improve them dramatically without additional investment, and it also allows you to be more discriminate in the people who work in them. it's a win win. Just end the friggin war on drugs already. If only they would actually rehabilitate people. There have been programs that actually work. But as long as imprisoning people makes someone money it will continue. I'm also aware that some people are beyond rehabilitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 3 hours ago, The Fallen said: If only they would actually rehabilitate people. There have been programs that actually work. But as long as imprisoning people makes someone money it will continue. I'm also aware that some people are beyond rehabilitation. Totally. Hell, at this point, i'd settle for just not making the problems worse, but rehabilitation would obviously be the ultimate goal for those that are capable of being rehabilitated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 22 minutes ago, Swordfish said: Totally. Hell, at this point, i'd settle for just not making the problems worse, but rehabilitation would obviously be the ultimate goal for those that are capable of being rehabilitated. A big part of rehabilitation not working is the stigma associated with people that have gone to prison. Good luck getting an interview when you have to check the checkbox indicating you've been convicted of a felony, which can be as little as doing $500 worth of property damage. Good luck getting a job when your background check confirms it. Fact is, that with our current system, if you've committed a crime you're a criminal for life. Your debt to society is never repaid, no amount of prison rehabilitation can combat it, and is the biggest reason why most people that go to prison end up back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 1 hour ago, aceluby said: A big part of rehabilitation not working is the stigma associated with people that have gone to prison. Good luck getting an interview when you have to check the checkbox indicating you've been convicted of a felony, which can be as little as doing $500 worth of property damage. Good luck getting a job when your background check confirms it. Fact is, that with our current system, if you've committed a crime you're a criminal for life. Your debt to society is never repaid, no amount of prison rehabilitation can combat it, and is the biggest reason why most people that go to prison end up back there. Indeed. Again, ending the war on drugs goes a long way toward mitigating this issue for a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordsteve666 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Link Wow USA you're going for the full-house this year aren't you! Nothing like a racist bigoted idiot running for president to draw all the other racist bigoted idiots out of the woodwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 1 hour ago, aceluby said: A big part of rehabilitation not working is the stigma associated with people that have gone to prison. Good luck getting an interview when you have to check the checkbox indicating you've been convicted of a felony, which can be as little as doing $500 worth of property damage. Good luck getting a job when your background check confirms it. Fact is, that with our current system, if you've committed a crime you're a criminal for life. Your debt to society is never repaid, no amount of prison rehabilitation can combat it, and is the biggest reason why most people that go to prison end up back there. This was an interesting study I heard on NPR. There are a number of states who have taken off the 'convicted felon' part on job applications. You can still ask people if they have been, but only in the interview. The result was really, really scary. Before this, the racial inequity was like 7-10% in favor of white people (white sounding names, or head shots of white people, with identical resumes sent out). After this was done, it had risen to something like 40%. The hypothesis was that prior to this, you could filter based on conviction and be reasonably confident that who you were hiring wasn't a felon. Afterwards, people assumed that anyone sounding African-American may be a felon and thus didn't even bother. So banning the box actually increased social inequality. I'll see if I can find the article, but man, that sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Ah, here we go. Quote The researchers sent 15,000 fictitious online job applications for entry-level positions in New York and New Jersey, some before the adoption of ban-the-box legislation, and some after. Requiring applicants to disclose criminal history clearly disadvantaged people with records, the researchers said in the working paper. Applications that did not show criminal history received 63 percent more callbacks than those that did. But after ban-the-box was adopted and employers didn't know if someone had a criminal record, racial disparities in callbacks soared. Before ban the box, white applicants received 7 percent more callbacks than equally qualified black candidates; after ban the box, the gap swelled to 45 percent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Swordfish said: Indeed. Again, ending the war on drugs goes a long way toward mitigating this issue for a lot of people. Yes, 100% agreed. 37 minutes ago, Dickwad Poster #3784 said: Ah, here we go. Sometimes this world just sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Hey @Ser Scot A Ellison - any idea why this would be struck down as unconstitutional? Quote RICHMOND, Va. (WAVY) — The Supreme Court of Virginia has ruled that Governor Terry McAuliffe’s executive order to restore voting rights to felons is unconstitutional. Earlier this year, McAuliffe issued an executive order restoring voting rights to more than 200,000 felons. The court ordered the Department of Elections to cancel the voting registration for all felons who have been invalidly registered under the executive order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Kalbear, No clue. Is the ruling based on the State or Federal Constitution? I don't have time to look at the article right this second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Kalbear, No clue. Is the ruling based on the State or Federal Constitution? I don't have time to look at the article right this second. state. the ruling seems very squishy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 As I understand it, they struck it down on the grounds that he could pardon individuals but blanket pardons don't count because then he's not individually considering each case or something. So apparently he's said he's just gonna pardon all of them individually. http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/07/22/487107922/virginia-court-overturns-order-that-restored-voting-rights-to-felons Quote Nothing stops the governor from granting rights to felons on an individual basis, but the justices said it was unconstitutional to do it through a blanket order. They described it as the difference between making an exception to a rule, and changing the rule. The court's ruling calls for state registrars to cancel the voter registration of all felons who registered to vote under McAuliffe's order. McAuliffe had previously promised to restore voting rights one by one if his order were overturned, an in a statement late Friday, he reiterated that vow. "I will expeditiously sign nearly 13,000 individual orders to restore the fundamental rights of the citizens who have had their rights restored and registered to vote," he said. "And I will continue to sign orders until I have completed restoration for all 200,000 Virginians." He called the lawsuit against him an "overtly political action," and said the court's ruling "has placed Virginia as an outlier in the struggle for civil and human rights." He is also, naturally, entirely correct about the origins of the law itself. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/virginia-court-invalidates-gov-terry-mcauliffes-order-restoring-felon-voting-rights/2016/07/22/3e1d45f6-5058-11e6-a7d8-13d06b37f256_story.html Quote Virginia is one of just a handful of states that ban all felons from voting and require individual exemptions for ex-offenders to vote, according to the Brennan Center for Justice. The ban is tinged with racial overtones: When it was adopted in 1902, a delegate testified to the need to “eliminate the darkey as a political factor,” according to Kristen Clarke, president of the Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fallen Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 22 hours ago, aceluby said: A big part of rehabilitation not working is the stigma associated with people that have gone to prison. Good luck getting an interview when you have to check the checkbox indicating you've been convicted of a felony, which can be as little as doing $500 worth of property damage. Good luck getting a job when your background check confirms it. Fact is, that with our current system, if you've committed a crime you're a criminal for life. Your debt to society is never repaid, no amount of prison rehabilitation can combat it, and is the biggest reason why most people that go to prison end up back there. This is true, but I'm also thinking of the rehabilitation of the mind. Not viewing yourself as worthless. Knowing or realizing that there's a world outside of selling drugs and such. I would think that a new perspective would prepare someone for the rejection they may face once they get out. Also, maybe there can be incentives for businesses willing to take a chance on a former prisoner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 6 minutes ago, The Fallen said: This is true, but I'm also thinking of the rehabilitation of the mind. Not viewing yourself as worthless. Knowing or realizing that there's a world outside of selling drugs and such. I would think that a new perspective would prepare someone for the rejection they may face once they get out. Also, maybe there can be incentives for businesses willing to take a chance on a former prisoner. What you're describing is basic therapy. And sure, mental health services in prison can probably be much approved, but it doesn't really address the realities one faces when one leaves prison. They usually leave with no money, few if any job prospects, often poor housing options or even having to return to the community where one got into trouble in the first place. This basic therapy they received in prison might have some uses, but being told there's a world outside of selling drugs means fuck all when there literally aren't any jobs outside of selling drugs available for many convicted felons. No amount of rejection preparation is going to change that. What aceluby is addressing is specifically challenging society as a whole in how we view people who have been in prison. That's what needs significant rehabilitation. There's barely any point to a prison system if those who commit crimes can not ever repay their debt to society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 24 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said: What you're describing is basic therapy. And sure, mental health services in prison can probably be much approved, but it doesn't really address the realities one faces when one leaves prison. They usually leave with no money, few if any job prospects, often poor housing options or even having to return to the community where one got into trouble in the first place. This basic therapy they received in prison might have some uses, but being told there's a world outside of selling drugs means fuck all when there literally aren't any jobs outside of selling drugs available for many convicted felons. No amount of rejection preparation is going to change that. What aceluby is addressing is specifically challenging society as a whole in how we view people who have been in prison. That's what needs significant rehabilitation. There's barely any point to a prison system if those who commit crimes can not ever repay their debt to society. Well for non violent crimes theres barely a point. But lets not forget the very important need to protect the innocents in society. Prison still is what society relies on to seperate the wolves from the sheep. And there will always be a percentage of dangerous people that need segregation in order to protect victims or future victims. The fact that some prisoners cant be rehabbed doesnt correlate to "no point in this", that would be overlooking the role of protecting the innocents. I too would vote to end the pointless "war on drugs" strategy, but I stay cognizant that there are still a portion of hardcore felons that will never be safe or rehabilitated enough to expose the public to. We still need to keep hitmen, mobsters, serial killers, chronic sex offenders, etc segregated. Whether they can be "fixed" or not, theres the public safety to give precedence to, above and beyond (imo) the rehab challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.