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Not_A_Quokka

Not a spoiler, is it? Am i the only one totally let down by "Jon is REALLY REALLY Dead"?

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This is probably old news...but probably in an effort NOT to let "thrones" fans down too awful much,  and with mere weeks to go before S6, I read that HBO is repeating/reiterating - that Jon Snow is "really, really" dead.  All this talk, and hope (mine among them) that JS is getting reanimated by the Red Woman (he thought comfortably as he read and re-read all the books for kicks).  Meanwhile HBO, in their probably, unprecedented move about any character any time, to restate that even Kit Harrington is saying "Yep he is dead."  (Implying no reanimation, now or later). What a let-down!  Meanwhile, Hollywood Reporter came out with their list of those "most likely to die in S6".  WHO CARES?  The list includes:  Brienne, Balon Greyjoy,  Mel, and a bunch more...did GRR really mean for Jon Snow's death to make the death of any, if not almost every, other character anti-climactic?  The only more story-killing death that would be worse would be Danyraes.  With the Red Wedding killing off damn near all our favorite characters (Catelyn and Robb and the GreatJon Umber for instance) They could have literally killed off ANY one else besides Jon Snow.  The point is, anybody that dies now that Jon Snow is going to be meaningless.  Why would GRR do this, and worse, the show agreed with him and did it too?  (Not to mention, this screws up "Winds of Winter"  since it's not likely GRR is going to contradict the show and bring him back either.)

Some body who is a literature major out there, can anybody give me a decent explanation of  what classic story/plot device would make them NOT choose to reanimate Lord Snow?

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It will be different books and show, but Jon is "coming back" in both. 

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i'm glad someone is sure about this.  I thought we'd already seen, and read the limits of the reanimation though!  You can "good" reanimate like Beric Dondarrian, who of course did it 6 times and the nfought with the Brotherhood doing mostly niceness except for the killing part - or BAD reanimate like Stoneheart and come back with a big ol literal chip on her shoulder hell bent on hanging every Frey!  How do we know when Jon comes back he wont try to drink an ale then get ticked off when it pours into his lap, my bad....OK bad joke but, is reanimatin something you can really stall?!  For the fans if nothing else, would be like "Oh, ok, Jon came back from the dead after all!"  Just because we know, pretty much, that nobody burned Jon's body and he'd be preserved in the ice cells, what's to prevent him from coming back as the Night's King?  !  

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34 minutes ago, Not_A_Quokka said:

i'm glad someone is sure about this.  I thought we'd already seen, and read the limits of the reanimation though!  You can "good" reanimate like Beric Dondarrian, who of course did it 6 times and the nfought with the Brotherhood doing mostly niceness except for the killing part - or BAD reanimate like Stoneheart and come back with a big ol literal chip on her shoulder hell bent on hanging every Frey!  How do we know when Jon comes back he wont try to drink an ale then get ticked off when it pours into his lap, my bad....OK bad joke but, is reanimatin something you can really stall?!  For the fans if nothing else, would be like "Oh, ok, Jon came back from the dead after all!"  Just because we know, pretty much, that nobody burned Jon's body and he'd be preserved in the ice cells, what's to prevent him from coming back as the Night's King?  !  

I'm a bit confused, are you talking about the show or the books? The show dropped LSH, and I'm not sure if they talked about Beric being brought back several times. In the books, Catelyn is brought back after days (3, I think), some spent in the water. And I don't think any type of reanimation is "good", be it as fire wights with consciousness (Beric) or ice wights. 

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Not_A_Quokka in order to be resurrected one must be really, really dead to start with. HBO can say that he is dead all they want at the beginning of Season 6 and still resurrect him later.

Why would you kill off a vital character in the story? Who next? Danny and Tyrion??

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While the show and books will have differences, undoubtedly, in some of the details regarding Jon Snow and his "resurrection" -- D&D have stated on numerous occasions that they are telling the same basic story as the books and they know the outcome for the main characters which basically will be the same in the end in the show and the books. Jon Snow is a main character -- arguably he is THE main character as he is the Song of Ice and Fire, personified (assuming R+L=J to be correct). He is coming back in the show and in the books.

Anyone saying he is going to "stay" dead on the show is lying. I suspect he will be resurrected at the end of the first episode -- but if not then, certainly by the second or third episode. And while I cannot be 100% certain -- I am about as close (maybe 99.999999% certain) to that as can be. A combination of both logic (Jon Snow's story arc is not over yet, he is too important to kill off this early) and spoilers (reports from the show's filming, GRRM's confirmation that Jon would find out the identity of his mother) make it fairly obvious that Jon is coming back -- and in a "good" way (which I think is different than Beric in that warging into Ghost, I suspect, allows the "whole" Jon to return and not UnJon with some part missing). We have spoilers that Jon leads the charge is the Battle of the Bastards against Ramsey -- so Jon is not coming back as the Night's King -- he is coming back as Jon -- the real and original Jon -- except perhaps with a bit more attitude.

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In order to keep the mistery about Jon Snow, last HBO's press release don't includes Kit Harington as a member of the returning cast to the sixth season

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Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think they're all lying their heads off. Because BUZZ! and HYPE! and SHOCK! are vastly more important to them than than telling a coherent story. They'd rather troll the audience than just say nothing and let their story speak for itself.

 

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Is there anyone in the world who thinks that kit harrington is off the show and only playing a corpse?  

I think this is asinine, but it would be interesting for someone to do a poll of normal GOT viewers who don't frequent web sites and fan forums to see what these casual fans think and if they even pay attention to the media stuff between seasons.

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Now I can only think of Kit Harrington lying there as a corpse for the whole season and getting paid for it.

It would have made much more sense for HBO's stance on the subject to be, "wait and see," but it's their boat to sink.

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8 hours ago, Liver and Onions said:

Now I can only think of Kit Harrington lying there as a corpse for the whole season and getting paid for it.

It would have made much more sense for HBO's stance on the subject to be, "wait and see," but it's their boat to sink.

That would make him the most expensive stage prop of all time.

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If Jon is to be resurrected, than, both HBO and Kit are not lying. Jon has to be dead for that to happen. The problem comes in that people see Kit on set and in Belfast. They believe him to be alive, which would make it seem like HBO is lying.

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1 minute ago, Lord Lyman said:

If Jon is to be resurrected, than, both HBO and Kit are not lying. Jon has to be dead for that to happen. The problem comes in that people see Kit on set and in Belfast. They believe him to be alive, which would make it seem like HBO is lying.

Kit has said more than just that he is dead. Here is the direct quote from him that was widely published:

I’m dead. I’m not coming back next season.

That statement will be proven to have been a lie fairly early in season 6 -- if not episode 1. If he had left it at the statement that he is dead -- technically not a lie -- but not coming back next season (season 6) -- total and complete lie.

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1 minute ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

Kit has said more than just that he is dead. Here is the direct quote from him that was widely published:

I’m dead. I’m not coming back next season.

That statement will be proven to have been a lie fairly early in season 6 -- if not episode 1. If he had left it at the statement that he is dead -- technically not a lie -- but not coming back next season (season 6) -- total and complete lie.

He won't be lying if they place Christopher Harrington in the opening credits though. ;)

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9 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

I’m dead. I’m not coming back next season.

Well, depends on how you look at it:

I'm dead - true, when he's dead...simple

I'm not coming back next season - true, since he didn't leave in the first place.

Where's the lie?  That's the problem with interviews and quotes in the internet - one focuses on what is said and implied, and not on what isn't said, or the very basic meaning of said words.

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Just now, CBeck113 said:

Well, depends on how you look at it:

I'm dead - true, when he's dead...simple

I'm not coming back next season - true, since he didn't leave in the first place.

Where's the lie?  That's the problem with interviews and quotes in the internet - one focuses on what is said and implied, and not on what isn't said, or the very basic meaning of said words.

That is not what "coming back next season" means by any plausible meaning of the words. No other actor on the show who will be part of the cast for season 6 who was also part of the cast for season 5 would say that he or she is "not coming back" in season 6 with the intended meaning that the actor did not leave. They ALL left. The season ended. Every cast member and every crew member left. As I stated, the season ended. Then the new season starts and those who are part of the new season "came back" for the next season. That is what those words mean -- that is the ONLY plausible meaning of those words. The notion that he did not "come back" because he never left is a complete distortion of the words and not what the words mean. But here is another quote I found that makes it even more clear that he claims he is not in the S6 at all (other than as a corpse):

“Look, I’m not in the show any more. I’m definitely not in the new series,” Harington tells TimeOut. With questioning, he admits he did do some filming. “I filmed some scenes of me being dead – [jokily] it’s some of my best work.”

I think this version of his denial makes it even more clear he is lying. He says he is not in the show any more and definitely not in the new "series" (the British term for season).

I highly doubt he will claim he did not lie. I think he will admit he lied but say that he had to lie either due to his contract or the need to avoid spoiling the "surprise" or whatever excuse. But cute little word games about how he can somehow stretch the words to be true -- or only focusing on the times he said he was dead and ignoring the times he said he was not going to be in the new season -- well I hope he does not compound his prior lie with such an additional lie.

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If he isn't staying dead, it's not like they're going to spoil major plot points before the season starts. 

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5 minutes ago, PCK said:

If he isn't staying dead, it's not like they're going to spoil major plot points before the season starts. 

I don't think anyone is denying that point. Of course no one expects them to admit that Jon comes back from the dead. The issue under discussion now is whether Kit has lied. Some suggested that he did not. I think it is clear that he has. Whether he should have lied or should have come up with a different way not to answer the question directly is a subjective judgment that each person can make for himself or herself.

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6 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

I don't think anyone is denying that point. Of course no one expects them to admit that Jon comes back from the dead. The issue under discussion now is whether Kit has lied. Some suggested that he did not. I think it is clear that he has. Whether he should have lied or should have come up with a different way not to answer the question directly is a subjective judgment that each person can make for himself or herself.

GOT including Kit has definitely lied, but who cares?  It's a TV show, actors, directors, producers lie all the time to protect spoilers.

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2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

GOT including Kit has definitely lied, but who cares?  It's a TV show, actors, directors, producers lie all the time to protect spoilers.

Yep actor director studios and etc... lie all the time. Who cares? 

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