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Not_A_Quokka

Not a spoiler, is it? Am i the only one totally let down by "Jon is REALLY REALLY Dead"?

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Jon Snow IS dead doesn't mean he will STAY dead. Kit may even say "Jon Snow is dead, definitively", and not lying, if he resurrects on another name. Jon Targaryen for example.

For me, it is the story which is definitively done, if no one continues the values defended by Jon. Only Sam and Davos are not thinking in term of Houses against Houses. But they have not Jon leadership ability.

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3 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Jon Snow IS dead doesn't mean he will STAY dead. Kit may even say "Jon Snow is dead, definitively", and not lying, if he resurrects on another name. Jon Targaryen for example.

For me, it is the story which is definitively done, if no one continues the values defended by Jon. Only Sam and Davos are not thinking in term of Houses against Houses. But they have not Jon leadership ability.

Did you read the Kit Harrington quotes that I reproduced above in a couple of posts? Kit did more than say Jon Snow is dead. Kit said that he is not going to be in Season 6. Kit will be in season 6. Kit lied. Many people think it is fine that Kit died because actors always lie to hide spoilers. Maybe it is fine. But he lied. Plain and simple, he lied.

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12 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

Did you read the Kit Harrington quotes that I reproduced above in a couple of posts? Kit did more than say Jon Snow is dead. Kit said that he is not going to be in Season 6. Kit will be in season 6. Kit lied. Many people think it is fine that Kit died because actors always lie to hide spoilers. Maybe it is fine. But he lied. Plain and simple, he lied.

Yes, I remember he said he was just playing a corpse for a few shots:

I filmed some scenes of me being dead – it’s some of my best work.

This is not a lie, the first part at least.

I’m not in the show any more. I’m definitely not in the new series,

This is a lie. It cannot be otherwise.

I understand they try to disguise the truth. But a blatant lie. They should say nothing, him, Maisie Williams ...

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1 minute ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Yes, I remember he said he was just playing a corpse for a few shots:

I filmed some scenes of me being dead – it’s some of my best work.

This is not a lie, the first part at least.

I’m not in the show any more. I’m definitely not in the new series,

This is a lie. It cannot be otherwise.

I understand they try to disguise the truth. But a blatant lie. They should say nothing, him, Maisie Williams ...

They can't say nothing, refusing to answer the question is the same as admitting Jon Snow isn't off the show.  They have given Kit a lower profile keeping him out of some venues.

I think they've taken the pretense a little too far by some of the things they've had Kit say and that the director and the showrunners have said, but I don't see the problem really.  

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1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

They can't say nothing, refusing to answer the question is the same as admitting Jon Snow isn't off the show.  They have given Kit a lower profile keeping him out of some venues.

I think they've taken the pretense a little too far by some of the things they've had Kit say and that the director and the showrunners have said, but I don't see the problem really.  

Some people think blatant lying by an actor -- even for the purpose of avoiding spoilers -- is wrong. Others think that the actor has no real choice and it is only about a show and only to avoid spoilers -- so no big deal. Neither view is "correct" -- it is just a matter of personal judgment on what actions are justified and what are not -- but no one is being accused of breaking any laws or having sex with someone else's spouse. But just because the action does not rise to the level of something that almost everyone would agree is wrong does not mean that some people still will think that this form of lying is wrong -- and they are entitled to hold that view.

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Kit Harrington cannot just come right out and say "Oh yeah, haha, I'll totally be back! No worries!" He's contractually obligated not to reveal that information. On the one hand I'm sure he is sick and tired of being hounded by everyone and their mother about it.

On the other hand there are more tactful ways of tiptoeing around the issue rather than saying "I'm in the show. I ought to know. He's gone." a la Maise Williams.

So yes, he is really, honestly, truly dead.

He just won't stay dead. But again they can't just come out and say that and I wouldn't want them too. Frankly, I'm sure everyone involved is tired of the whole thing and is probably very much anticipating the big reveal so we can begin to move past it.

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22 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

They can't say nothing, refusing to answer the question is the same as admitting Jon Snow isn't off the show.  They have given Kit a lower profile keeping him out of some venues.

I think they've taken the pretense a little too far by some of the things they've had Kit say and that the director and the showrunners have said, but I don't see the problem really.  

When someone ask GRRM something about the next book, he answer by something like "wait for the book". The actors could always say something like "What would be the point of giving an answer now? Wait for the show, it's great." Of course, most asking expect only one answer.

What one says has no value, once he is caught lying.

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On 11. huhtikuuta 2016 at 7:11 PM, The Ned's Little Girl said:

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think they're all lying their heads off. Because BUZZ! and HYPE! and SHOCK! are vastly more important to them than than telling a coherent story. They'd rather troll the audience than just say nothing and let their story speak for itself.

 

It is ridiculous to say they should not tell he is dead. Should they tell the truth and spoil the event? Silence and evasion would be as good as confirmation and everyone in the show is asked constantly so they must have a united response instead of evasion. He is dead and that is what reporters are asking.

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I liked Gwendolyn Christie's response. I think it was somewhere along the lines of "I get the scripts and I only read my parts, so I honestly could not tell you if he was dead or alive." Very classy and not the least bit cheeky or antagonistic.

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Just now, Mistress of Lemon Cakes said:

I liked Gwendolyn Christie's response. I think it was somewhere along the lines of "I get the scripts and I only read my parts, so I honestly could not tell you if he was dead or alive." Very classy and not the least bit cheeky or antagonistic.

Yeah, there are ways to not answer that allow for a lot more nuance than what has been employed by Kit or the show or some of the others involved.  Whether it's clumsy or they're doing it on purpose to amp up the hype I don't know.  But, they are set up for another massive cascade of interviews for everyone when Jon Snow Stark Targaryen is resurrected.  

 

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I honestly don't blame Kit. I imagine these last ten months or so for him have been incredibly annoying and he's just as anxious as the rest of us to see Jon Snow come back.

The others who are voluntarily engaging in the discussion ... not so much.

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41 minutes ago, Chinoiserie said:

It is ridiculous to say they should not tell he is dead. Should they tell the truth and spoil the event? Silence and evasion would be as good as confirmation and everyone in the show is asked constantly so they must have a united response instead of evasion. He is dead and that is what reporters are asking.

I never said that. They can say Jon Snow is dead until they're as blue in the face as Jon presumably is; that's probably not lying.

But when anybody says that Kit H. is done with the show, won't be back, isn't part of the coming season, etc., I'd bet some darn good money that they're lying. That's the thing they don't have to say; that's the part that's trolling the audience.

They could simply say, "Jon Snow is dead and we stand by the story we're telling." Done; doesn't give anything away and isn't a lie.

 

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5 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

GOT including Kit has definitely lied, but who cares?  It's a TV show, actors, directors, producers lie all the time to protect spoilers.

This. 

I don't really understand why people are holding them to their word, or hating them for lying. What are they supposed to do? Yeah, the whole "Jon Snow is dead" thing is getting old, but what can you do when people continuously ask? Leaving any room for interpretation just makes it obvious that he is coming back, therefor rendering the 'surprise' pointless. 

Even if it is obvious that Jon is coming back, it is supposed to be a climatic moment and one of the biggest twists on the show. They aren't going to ruin that. Actually, the second trailer was really good at selling the whole 'Jon Snow is really dead' message, with Davos and Tormund apparently picking up the reigns for Jon. But nope, I'm betting he will be back in episode 2 or 3 with episode 1 putting the idea forward. 

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It's showbusiness, it's all pretend. Who cares? Those are just words. If anything, they're white lies, they're not harming anyone. It's all for entertainment. The cast and crew will say whatever the marketing department wants them to with regard to any plot spoilers, they will construct their comments to whatever suits the team's agenda. I don't take promo interviews seriously and I side eye anyone who does.

They've gone out of their way to protect the plot twist (which actually keeps backfiring on them because they couldn't be more obvious at this point), and I just find it weirdly funny that their marketing approach about Jon is so overdone and casual, it is basically 'Jon Snow's dead, so get hype folks!' (yet another thing that makes it obvious he's coming back).They want a big surprise but they run a risk of some people being turned off if they buy what the PR team has been selling.

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1 hour ago, ~DarkHorse~ said:

This. 

I don't really understand why people are holding them to their word, or hating them for lying. What are they supposed to do? Yeah, the whole "Jon Snow is dead" thing is getting old, but what can you do when people continuously ask? Leaving any room for interpretation just makes it obvious that he is coming back, therefor rendering the 'surprise' pointless. 

Even if it is obvious that Jon is coming back, it is supposed to be a climatic moment and one of the biggest twists on the show. They aren't going to ruin that. Actually, the second trailer was really good at selling the whole 'Jon Snow is really dead' message, with Davos and Tormund apparently picking up the reigns for Jon. But nope, I'm betting he will be back in episode 2 or 3 with episode 1 putting the idea forward. 

I strongly disagree with the bolded sentence. Look at how GRRM does it. When he was asked about Jon being dead, he said something like "Oh, you think Jon is dead." People still debated the point.

Anything short of direct confirmation that Jon is coming back will not be taken as confirmation of anything. They really don't need to lie. It is just a lazy way of not figuring out ways to avoid giving away spoilers without having to resort to lying. GRRM does it all the time. Kit and the producers, etc. should do the same thing. They did not.

It is not the biggest deal in the world. There are much worse things they could have done. I don't think they are "bad" people for having done it. But they did not have to do it. It was a choice -- and a choice I would not have made under identical circumstances.

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2 hours ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

I strongly disagree with the bolded sentence. Look at how GRRM does it. When he was asked about Jon being dead, he said something like "Oh, you think Jon is dead." People still debated the point.

Anything short of direct confirmation that Jon is coming back will not be taken as confirmation of anything. They really don't need to lie. It is just a lazy way of not figuring out ways to avoid giving away spoilers without having to resort to lying. GRRM does it all the time. Kit and the producers, etc. should do the same thing. They did not.

It is not the biggest deal in the world. There are much worse things they could have done. I don't think they are "bad" people for having done it. But they did not have to do it. It was a choice -- and a choice I would not have made under identical circumstances.

All of this. It's one thing to equivocate and prevaricate; it's quite another to do a bait-and-switch and then yell, "Psych!"

When Jon Snow does come back, all the producers and actors who lied about it are going to look like flippin' dickheads. And I can't imagine many audience members will feel good about being jerked around like that.

 

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5 hours ago, The Ned's Little Girl said:

All of this. It's one thing to equivocate and prevaricate; it's quite another to do a bait-and-switch and then yell, "Psych!"

When Jon Snow does come back, all the producers and actors who lied about it are going to look like flippin' dickheads. And I can't imagine many audience members will feel good about being jerked around like that.

I'm OK with people saying true but misleading stuff. But people telling blatant lies, they lose credibility for whatever they say thereafter. I know they killed no one, but their credibility. But yeah, no one listens to you when you say "wait, you will find out later".

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11 hours ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

Some people think blatant lying by an actor -- even for the purpose of avoiding spoilers -- is wrong. Others think that the actor has no real choice and it is only about a show and only to avoid spoilers -- so no big deal. Neither view is "correct" -- it is just a matter of personal judgment on what actions are justified and what are not -- but no one is being accused of breaking any laws or having sex with someone else's spouse. But just because the action does not rise to the level of something that almost everyone would agree is wrong does not mean that some people still will think that this form of lying is wrong -- and they are entitled to hold that view.

OK! It's over the top now, that lying and disguise business, it gets ridiculous (LOL, assuming that Harington isn't really out)

But the show never intended to go so very far with their lying business, they had reason to believe that TWOW would be out by now and that they could have given up this charade weeks ago.

What should the  showmakers and Harington do now? APRIL FOOLS :D, did you really believe our little game ?!

No, they have to go through with it now until everybody sees for themselves.

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6 hours ago, The Ned's Little Girl said:

All of this. It's one thing to equivocate and prevaricate; it's quite another to do a bait-and-switch and then yell, "Psych!"

When Jon Snow does come back, all the producers and actors who lied about it are going to look like flippin' dickheads. And I can't imagine many audience members will feel good about being jerked around like that.

 

The first poster for Season 6 was Jon Snow. The bait and switch will be that he stays dead.

It is a marketing campaign in the end.  That it has been the same question just show it has been quite successful.

People who are taking personal offence with the show for this have already being offended by the show several time.

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