Targaryen + non-Targaryen children always favor the non-Targ parent?

[sweetsunray]

10 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Varys IMO needs a reason to want this boy on the throne and he needs motivation for his "the poor bastards" stance. And I think the GC need a Blackfyre in order to be breaking a contract, some wrote in blood ect. But I shall not pursue this here as I would not wish to derail the thread.

I've recently made an essay that is partially a history of House Blackfyre, starting with Aegon V. I do speculate and propose some answers, like maester Yaendel does in the world book, but I put any of it in italics. Anyway based on what we know of this period, you get quite a clear picture of what Aegor Rivers was like: actually quite an honorable guy who deeply respected traditional line of succession, such as a son coming before an uncle. Meanwhile there's a pattern that if House Peake is involved, it's without Bittersteel's backing, or behind Bittersteel's back. House Peake aren't "true" Blackfyre supporters. They're just in it for rebellion and getting more power out of it. Hmmmm, now check who actually says "friends in the Reach" in the Lost Lord. A Peake! What should this tell us about what Bittersteel would think of the GC backing fAegon?

And then we have Maelys: kingslayer and usurper. It's pretty clear that Maelys was not first in line. He killed his own cousin to gain command over the GC and make himself the Blackfyre pretender. It's everything that Bittersteel was not. The fact that the GC followed Maelys and sacked Tyrosh (where Bittersteel would have his own grandchildren or great-grandchildren living) already tells us that the GC broke with everything that Bittersteel believed in and valued. Imo the words of the GC's captains in the  Lost Lord chapter show how they're only true to Bittersteel in everything that is form - the golden dipped skulls of commanders, going home, breaking contracts - but not at heart. They've not been true to Bittersteel's aims and goals since Maelys.

Saera Targaryen's short life entry, especially together with her two closest sisters in the world book should at least perk our interest: Saera and Megette went to the motherhouse to become Septas. Megette did become a septa, caring for children with greyscale, a sickness she herself eventually died off. Saera ran away while still a novice, fled across the narrow sea (all by her lonesome self), stayed in Lys for a while and then moved on to Volantis where she became the proud owner of a pleasure house, and then her younger sister committed suicide because she was preggers by a singer who seduced her. Sounds to me like Saera found herself in a similar situation, but instead of killing herself she went to Lys. Only 1 character is actually called Saera, and that's princess Saera Targaryen, and we only have 2 Serras in the books: Illyrio's Serra, and a granddaughter of Walder Frey, who has a twin sister Sarra. e/a. Same names, spelled and pronounced somewhat differently (by mistake by the Lyseni and Freys most like).

So we have Serra ~ Saera, grey plague ~ grey scale for Saera's sister, soiled Septa taking care of fAegon ~ probable soiled septa novice, bedslave ~owner of a brothel with bedslaves, both Lys. For basically three lines of text in the World Book those are quite a lot of parallel matches, no?

Those are the reasons I don't buy the GC is actually backing a Blackfyre at the moment, and why I think Serra is a descendant of Saera Targaryen.

But as to V phenotypes: Serra certainly was one, and Illyrio should be a carrier, for Aegon to look like a Targ.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

15 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

I've recently made an essay that is partially a history of House Blackfyre, starting with Aegon V. I do speculate and propose some answers, like maester Yaendel does in the world book, but I put any of it in italics. Anyway based on what we know of this period, you get quite a clear picture of what Aegor Rivers was like: actually quite an honorable guy who deeply respected traditional line of succession, such as a son coming before an uncle. Meanwhile there's a pattern that if House Peake is involved, it's without Bittersteel's backing, or behind Bittersteel's back. House Peake aren't "true" Blackfyre supporters. They're just in it for rebellion and getting more power out of it. Hmmmm, now check who actually says "friends in the Reach" in the Lost Lord. A Peake! What should this tell us about what Bittersteel would think of the GC backing fAegon?

And then we have Maelys: kingslayer and usurper. It's pretty clear that Maelys was not first in line. He killed his own cousin to gain command over the GC and make himself the Blackfyre pretender. It's everything that Bittersteel was not. The fact that the GC followed Maelys and sacked Tyrosh (where Bittersteel would have his own grandchildren or great-grandchildren living) already tells us that the GC broke with everything that Bittersteel believed in and valued. Imo the words of the GC's captains in the  Lost Lord chapter show how they're only true to Bittersteel in everything that is form - the golden dipped skulls of commanders, going home, breaking contracts - but not at heart. They've not been true to Bittersteel's aims and goals since Maelys.

Saera Targaryen's short life entry, especially together with her two closest sisters in the world book should at least perk our interest: Saera and Megette went to the motherhouse to become Septas. Megette did become a septa, caring for children with greyscale, a sickness she herself eventually died off. Saera ran away while still a novice, fled across the narrow sea (all by her lonesome self), stayed in Lys for a while and then moved on to Volantis where she became the proud owner of a pleasure house, and then her younger sister committed suicide because she was preggers by a singer who seduced her. Sounds to me like Saera found herself in a similar situation, but instead of killing herself she went to Lys. Only 1 character is actually called Saera, and that's princess Saera Targaryen, and we only have 2 Serras in the books: Illyrio's Serra, and a granddaughter of Walder Frey, who has a twin sister Sarra. e/a. Same names, spelled and pronounced somewhat differently (by mistake by the Lyseni and Freys most like).

So we have Serra ~ Saera, grey plague ~ grey scale for Saera's sister, soiled Septa taking care of fAegon ~ probable soiled septa novice, bedslave ~owner of a brothel with bedslaves, both Lys. For basically three lines of text in the World Book those are quite a lot of parallel matches, no?

Those are the reasons I don't buy the GC is actually backing a Blackfyre at the moment, and why I think Serra is a descendant of Saera Targaryen.

But as to V phenotypes: Serra certainly was one, and Illyrio should be a carrier, for Aegon to look like a Targ.

This is indeed very intriguing. 

What is the time line match up for Saera & Serra? are you proposing they are the same woman? I'm not certain from your post if that is what you are proposing? 

I do think Illyrio is the Blackfyre on his mother's side descendant. Which would make him a carrier? I don't think we get Illyrio's eye colour? But he is blonde.

I had thought Varys was a Targaryen from the very start.  He is associated with lilacs, via his perfume, but lilac is a colour often used to describe Targaryen eyes. He is almost always depicted wearing purple in illustrations too, a colour we associate with royalty so the reader makes a subconscious connection. Then when I read D&E there is that line about Eggs head and being bald, to hide his Targaryen hair; which of course is also used to describe Varys. And I think it is personal for him, he isn't just screwing with the royal dynasty of Westeros for his mates benefit if anything he wants it more than Illyrio does.

And his looking out for Roberts bastards feels personal too, he doesn't need to get Gendry a prestigious apprenticeship to keep an eye on him, nor does he need to send Edric gifts. That is solely about the boy's feelings. And he doesn't strike me as a kind person in general, so it has to be about him and his feelings. Which made me think maybe he is a royal bastard.

Which also explains why he lost his cock. either the sorcerer was looking specifically for royal blood/ Valyrian Dragon Lord blood. Or he was gelded to prevent the spread of that line of bastards by say Jaehaerys II 's command.  It would not be hard to discreetly send a man out to find and castrate a little boy in Lys who might become the next Blackfyre style pretender to the throne. As a precautionary measure.  And the story about the sorcerer is a load of old bollocks he's made up as cover. Total speculation. But I've tried to think of all possibilities. 

fAegon has the dark purple eyes, so say Illyrio is blue eyed, can he and Serra still produce a purple eyed son? 

[SeanF]

8 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

This is indeed very intriguing. 

What is the time line match up for Saera & Serra? are you proposing they are the same woman? I'm not certain from your post if that is what you are proposing? 

Assuming that Saera didn't prolong her lifespan through sorcery, she'd have died at some point in the first half of the Second Century AC.  Serra can't have been born earlier than c.250 AC.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

58 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Assuming that Saera didn't prolong her lifespan through sorcery, she'd have died at some point in the first half of the Second Century AC.  Serra can't have been born earlier than c.250 AC.

Right, so no chance of her being the same woman. 

I'll be honest I see the clues @Sweetsunray pointed out as interesting. But I'm not convinced they point to her being this Saera or indeed a descendant of her. They could! I wouldn't deny that.

But equally, they could just be more hints that she was a Targaryen descendant. Which still works for her being descended from Aerion during his exile in Lys. And thus still possibly being Varys's sister. 

We have the Targ connection, the pleasure house connection, and the greyscale connection in all the women she mentioned. The only thing missing for Serra would be the Septa connection.

Which admittedly is a point in favour of her having been descended from Saera. fAegon does have a soiled Septa caring for him. And Saera's sister committing suicide over an illegitimate pregnancy can be taken as a hint that Saera fled the MotherHouse due to a pregnancy. It certainly would not be unusual.  

I'm not swayed, but I do see there is a lot of merit in it. I still think Varys has to have a blood tie to fAegon to have gone to all this effort on his behalf. And his being Serra's sibling with them both being descended from a Targaryen gives that connection. Whether that Targareyn is Aerion Britghtflame or Saera doesn't really alter things enormously. but given that Aerion has a much more prominent role in the narrative to me feels more likely. because Saera's hints can just be hints at Serra's heritage being Targaryen full stop.

The story feels much more that Illyrio took her from a pillow house and she was working there, rather than her owning it and if she descended from Saera she ought to be the one in charge. Given Saera was in charge it stands to reason her child would inherit. And Saera's was a pleasure house in Volantis so why would her daughter/granddaughter end up back on Lys? Especially given that the Lysene Pillow Houses are staffed by slaves. 

 Also, the word Found is used when he's telling Tyrion about her, which to me implies that he was searching for her. Which is in line with his best friend Varys telling him something like..."I have a sister, we were separated as children the last I heard she was in a pillow house on Lys." And then the two of them deciding to go look for her with a view to liberating her from the life of being a sex slave. Given we know Varys was sold into slavery, and the pillow houses are staffed by slaves it stands to reason Serra would have been a slave too, which because Varys was sold is a hint in favour of them being siblings. 

Here is the quote. 

" Inside was a painted likeness of a woman with big blue eyes and pale golden hair streaked by silver. "Serra. I found her in a Lysene pillow house and brought her home to warm my bed, but in the end I wed her. "

He says he bought her home to warm his bed, but in the end, he wed her. Which is him implying there was nothing special about her as such, which could be a cover for there being something very special about her indeed. The fact he found her implies he was searching for her and that belies the notion that he just casually wed her.  Not to mention that straight after he tells Tyrion. 

 "Me, whose first wife had been a cousin of the Prince of Pentos. The palace gates were closed to me thereafter, but I did not care. The price was small enough, for Serra."

So the Prince of Pentos turned his back on illyrio for marrying Serra, which could be that a; Illyrio set his wife aside for Serra. or b; that Serra having been a slave was too much for the snobbish Prince to bear. And so he turned his back on him.

[sweetsunray]

1 hour ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

What is the time line match up for Saera & Serra? are you proposing they are the same woman? I'm not certain from your post if that is what you are proposing? 

Saera Targaryen was born in the 1st century AC. She's the daughter of Jaehaerys I and Alyssane. So, definitely not Serra herself no.  

1 hour ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

I do think Illyrio is the Blackfyre on his mother's side descendant. Which would make him a carrier? I don't think we get Illyrio's eye colour? But he is blonde.

Posibble, but the evidence for that even metaphorically is quite low.

If this is recessive, then Illyrio is a carrier yes.

1 hour ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

I had thought Varys was a Targaryen from the very start.  He is associated with lilacs, via his perfume, but lilac is a colour often used to describe Targaryen eyes. He is almost always depicted wearing purple in illustrations too, a colour we associate with royalty so the reader makes a subconscious connection. Then when I read D&E there is that line about Eggs head and being bald, to hide his Targaryen hair; which of course is also used to describe Varys. And I think it is personal for him, he isn't just screwing with the royal dynasty of Westeros for his mates benefit if anything he wants it more than Illyrio does.

All true. But Belwas is a bald eunuch. And Xaro is bald and pale. Varys' speech to Kevan is like a Sorrowful Man. And overall his form of speaking is very close to those of Xaro and the merchant captain of the Indigo Star (a Qartheen ship): the poor children! And while the Qartheen men can produce a single tear, Varys is often "near tears" when talking about the poor babes that Cersei got killed or missing Tyrek. Dany calls Xaro's tears "mummer's tears". Even she is bald at some point.

Varys also wears silk prominently, which either comes from Naath or Qarth. Silk is a "spider" thing. There's a pillow house on Lys that is specialised in Naathi bedslaves. And Qarth is the last city of a previous larger kingdom of city-states called Qaath. One of the cities lost to the Red Waste and Dothraki of the Qaathi is a city originally called Qolahn, but the Dothraki renamed it Vaes Qosar, which means City of Spiders. Before they were moved to the south into what later would become the Red Waste, they lived in the grasslands often clashing with the Sarnori, whose riders wore "spider silk".

Why does Varys wear powder even on his hands? What's he hiding behind that powder? Why did he sleep in the sewers of Pentos by day and only prowled the rooftops at night? What is discernable about him that would have made him recognizable for slave-catchers? 

There's a parallel between Varys's castration and that of the Unsullied: the total castration, but also how the Unsullied burn their parts on an altar to a goddess. And while in Qarth, Dany dons a purple silk robe, chops up a snake, charrs it on a brazier and feeds it to her dragons, and notes how they grow. If you consider the slang of a penis being called one-eyed-snake... well you get my point. It's not so much a blood ritual that was done on Varys, it was his manhood fed to a power to make them bigger. 

The purple dye of his clothes: "true" purple comes from Braavos, not Tyrosh. The natural dyes that the Tyroshi snails produce are dark-red (maroon), and with a different diet it can change into crimson (bright red) or indigo (deep blue). Every other colors is either mixing of those natural dyes or chemical manipulaton. The sea snails found in Braavos produce the true purple. 

Lilacs are purple flowers, and so are lavenders (another perfume and wash he wears). Sansa's first chapter tells us what to think of "purple flowers": they're poisonous. We have not yet seen anyone's eyes described as "lavender colored". Did you know that Littlefinger wears a certain purple vest regularly? It's plum colored. He wears it at least thrice in the books. The first time he wears it, Tyrion remarks on it, and the point of the little conversation is whether we should consider the wearing of colors only a sigil thing, a House thing or not.

Now, I'm not pointing all this out to negate the possible ties you mention. I actually mention them too in my Varys essay. But there's a whole lot more going on, much and more, just as enticing as Varys wearing lilac perfume, or Egg being bald as an egg and Brightflame once threatening to cut his balls and penis off. 

And yes it is personal to him, but it has more to do with what made him into the spider. His castration has a lot to do with it. Kraznas speech about the making of an Unsullied is about how it makes them the "purest creatures". It changes everything. For example the Naathi are peaceful people. They don't even defend themselves physically when the corsairs come to take them as slaves. And yet Missandei's brothers are Unsullied: they killed their puppies, and they killed a slave's baby and paid her owner. To reduce motivation solely to the Targ blood he might have (Targ blood of a particular person who is heavily hinted to have treacherously slain Haegon Blackfyre, after Haegon surrendered his sword I might add) is something that George is imo not how he constructed Varys at all.

What have Egg and Varys in common aside from a bald head? One was a peasant's prince who wanted to rule for the common people (not the lords), and the other is slaveborn, sold at least twice, and the last time just so a sorcerer could feed his parts to a demon or god or being in blue flames. He could have died for all the sorcerer cared after that. And he wants to put someone on the throne who'll rule for the common people.

1 hour ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

And his looking out for Roberts bastards feels personal too, he doesn't need to get Gendry a prestigious apprenticeship to keep an eye on him, nor does he need to send Edric gifts.

Well, it's not certain it was Varys who arranged for Gendry's apprenticeship. There is the round shoulderness and the stout description, but if it was Varys he was wearing a disguise (a red beard) and trying to hide his face beneath a hood. But one should also ask: if Varys is going about in the city in disguise, then why the hell is he wearing purple velvet. People would end up thinking this guy is Varys by built and purple velvet cloak alone without ever seeing his face. That's not much of a disguise is it? Either George didn't think Varys's disguise through, or it wasn't Varys after all, but a red herring description to make us think "Ah, Varys!".

1 hour ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

fAegon has the dark purple eyes, so say Illyrio is blue eyed, can he and Serra still produce a purple eyed son?

I'll post a section of my unpublished essay on eye-color here.

What causes eye color in general? The iris (what we see as the colored section of the eyeball), exists of two layers:

• stroma: the stroma has anterior and posterior cells and is interlaced with blood vessels. The front of the stroma never has any pigment. The posterior of the stroma may have melanin granula, from yellow-brown to brown.
• pigment epitheleum: this is an opaque layer of two cells thick behind the stroma, packed with large melanocytes of black melanin as a black screen to prevent light from falling onto the retina, except for the light that passes through the pupil behind the iris.

THERE ARE NO BLUE, GREEN, PURPLE OR GREY PIGMENTS in the iris! Those structural colors are brought about by the scattering and interference of light as it hits gass molecules or translucent fluids or solids: the Tyndall effect for blue, purple and green, and Mie scattering for grey. These are similar mechanics that make the sky and oceans look blue, green or grey depending on the density, moisture of the medium and the wavelength of visible light that manages to reach our observing sight first. The largeness of the molecules of a medium in comparison to wavelength determines what color of light will be scattered. Shortest wavelengths of light are first violet and then blue.

In order for eyes to be "true violet" the molecules of the collagen within the stroma must be smaller than 450 nm. Then blue can pass and be absorbed by the black eptiheleum and only the violet will be scattered. It thus has nothing to do with scattered blue light mixing with the red blood of the capillaries within the iris, but likely the collagen composition. The reason that in extremer forms of albinism people have "red eyes" has to do with reduced pigment epitheleum. As mentioned above, normally the epitheleum is a double layer of two cells, both with black pigment. In the case of albinism only one layer of cells has black pigment or even neither. The epitheleum is not 100 % opaque anymore, and thus light other than the one passing the pupil drops onto the retina, and then is reflected back out of the iris. For the person having albinism this will blur their vision, and people observing the eyes of the albino will see the blood in their iris. Even in these amenalistic cases light will still be scattered by the translucent stroma, and thus have at least partially blue eyes.

So, if the genes that cause Serra to have blue eyes is albinistic related, then yes, her son could have purple eyes. You could have two albinistic phenotypes as parents, both with blue appearing eyes, and their child could have purple appearing eyes, because it has nothing to do with a gene that says "blue eyes" or "purple eyes", but with a gene saying "1 - don't produce pigment in the back layer of the stroma (no yellow or brown) and 2 - meh don't produce so much black pigment in the epitheleum ". If then the collagen particles in the stroma are small enough, you have "purple". If you're out on the sea, it looks some blue hue to you. But if you plummet a bucket in the blue water and pull it out, you've got a liquid with no color at all. Same thing for irises of people with blue eyes (and purple): the iris is tanslucent with a black opaque layer at the back.

Does George know this? I'm sure he does, because it's the reason why he so ofen incorporates dyes and color of clothes. Structural colors (scattering of light, not pigment) are very prone to ambient influence, because they are ambient colors to begin with, anyhow.

[Megorova]

 

On 29.02.2016 at 0:09 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

My other “big” question to him was about my Targ/Non-Targ theory.
a.    Curiously enough, when I asked him at the Thursday dinner about my Targ/Non-Targ first born babies, he replied "interesting", then told me, "you know alot". He did not say "no," as he often does when something is just plain wrong, but instead, he asked more questions. He also took my note card and looked at what I had written (to not forget under pressure).
b.    GRRM then started to diverge the conversation in to the Blood&Fire book, and that he would have to "go back and look at his notes." Regarding my Targ theory. This may be a way he avoids answering questions that could be spoilers.

He didn't said "no", which doesn't mean "yes", not "no" could also mean "maybe" or "I'm not sure", or "I don't know", or that to understand certain idea, people need more time and deeper knowledge of that idea/theory. He didn't had a deep knowledge of your theory, and your theory isn't something outright obvious, or understandable from first hearing/looking. And also some parts of your theory (even if you yourself don't see it) corresponds with how laws of genetics work in real world.

Child of Targaryen and non-Targaryen parent gets non-Targaryen looks <-> Targaryens are light-haired, so they are carriers of recessive b genes of light coloring, and their gene pair is bb, while non-Targaryens could be carriers of dominant B genes of dark coloring, or recessive b genes of light coloring, and have a pair of genes BB, or Bb, or bb. BB - dark coloring, Bb - dark coloring, bb - light coloring. In combination with Targaryens bb genes, child of non-Targaryen parent with BB genes, will get Bb set of genes one from each parent, and the resulting coloring will be dark. In combination with a Bb non-Targaryen parent, the child could get either Bb genes and have dark coloring, or to get bb genes and have light coloring. While in combination with a bb non-Targaryen parent, the child will get bb genes from both parents, and will have light coloring.

Same rule applyes to all other families. Doesn't matter whether they are Targaryens, or Baratheons, or Lannisters, or whoever. What do matter is that the child gets one gene from one parent, and one gene from the other parent. And that B genes are dominant over recessive b genes.      

 

Rules of genetic of real world, are represented thru ALL characters in ASOIAF world.

Rhaenys Targaryen got her mother's dark looks, thru inheriting her B gene, while her brother Aegon got from his mother her b gene. Elia Martell was carrier of Bb genes. Aside from dark-haired Martells, among her ancestors were also Valyrians - Drazenko Rogare that married with Aliandra Martell, Daenerys Targaryen that married with Maron Martell, and who knows how many other possible carriers of b genes. 

Based on this timeline:

Spoiler

In 110 AC Prince Qoren Martell gave his support to the Triarchy in the war against Prince Daemon Targaryen and Lord Corlys Velaryon in the Stepstones. Qoren was eventually succeeded by his daughter, Princess Aliandra.

Aliandra's husband Drazenko Rogare died in or between 129 and 134.

King Daeron I Targaryen conquered Dorne in 158 AC when the Prince of Dorne bent the knee at the Submission of Sunspear. Rebellion continued until Daeron's death in 161 AC, after which his brother, King Baelor I, travelled to Sunspear and agreed to a peace with House Martell. This included a betrothal between Mariah Martell and Prince Daeron Targaryen. Mariah's brother Maron was Daeron's most important supporter, and upon Daeron's ascension, agreed to join Dorne under Targaryen rule. This became official in 187 AC, when Maron married Daeron's sister Daenerys.

First son of Mariah Martell and Daeron II Targaryen, Baelor was born in 170. His parents were supposed to marry once they were both of age. Daeron was born in 153. He turned 16 in 169. So it seems that he and Mariah married in 169, and next year their first child was born.

Daenerys and Maron married in 187 AC. Elia was born in 256 or 257, her parents were Princess of Dorne and her husband.

1. Prince of Dorne that has bend the knee to Daeron I in 158, was son of Aliandra and Drazenko Rogare, and father of Mariah and Maron. Thus Mariah and Maron were partially Valyrian, thru their grandfather, they were 25% Rogares, and carriers of b gene.

2. Daenerys Targaryen and Maron Martell were grandparents of Elia. Their daughter Princess of Dorne was 50% Targaryen and 12,5% Rogare, 60,5% Valyrian. So could be that Elia's mother was blue-eyed blond. Or even if she wasn't, she was still a carrier of b gene.

Either way thru her Targaryen grandmother, and Valyrian great great granfather, Elia was carrier of Bb genes. Her B gene she passed to her daughter Rhaenys, and her b gene to her son Aegon.

Mariah Martell was 25% Valyrian and 75% Dornish, she was carrier of Bb genes. Her husband Daeron was carrier of bb genes. Both of his parents were Targaryens, brother and sister. His grandmother was Larra Rogare, niece of Drazenko Rogare. His grandfather, great grandparents, and great great grandfather were all Targaryens. His most recent non-Valyrian ancestor was his great great grandmother Aemma Arryn, but even she was half-Targaryen herself, thru her mother Daella Targaryen.

So among children of Mariah (Bb) and Daeron (bb), their first son Baelor got thru his mother his B gene, and thru his father his b gene. Baelor had Bb genes, and thus was darkhaired like his mother. We don't know how looked Mariah's second and third sons, but it is known that her fourth son had Valyrian looks. Maekar got from both of his parents two b genes, and was bb. 

Baelor Targaryen married with Jena Dondarrion. Family trait of Dondarrions is red-gold hair. Baelor's son Valarr inherited his father's brown hair.

Maekar married with Dyanna Dayne. Their first son Daeron inherited brown hair color of his mother, while three others (Aerion, Aemon and Aegon) got light hair of their father. Maekar was bb, and Dyanna was Bb. Though it's not clear whether Aemon looked like his mother, or like his father. Could be that like Daeron, he also had brown hair (when he was young).

Description of Targaryens from Hedge Knight:

Spoiler

Baelor:

"Even seated, he looked to be a head taller than the other, to judge from the long straight legs stretched out before him. His short-cropped hair was dark and peppered with grey, his strong jaw clean-shaven. His nose looked as though it had been broken more than once. Though he was dressed very plainly, in green doublet, brown mantle, and scuffed boots, there was a weight to him, a sense of power and certainty."

"He does not look a Targaryen in truth, with that dark hair. Dunk said as much to Egg. “It’s said he favors his mother,” the boy reminded him. “She was a Dornish princess.”"

Valarr:

"He had dark hair like his father, but a bright streak ran through it."

"Valarr, the Young Prince, stood vigil at the foot of the bier while his father lay in state. He was a shorter, slimmer, handsomer version of his sire, without the twice-broken nose that had made Baelor seem more human than royal. Valarr’s hair was brown, but a bright streak of silver-gold ran through it."

"When he stopped to offer awkward sympathies, well larded with thanks, Prince Valarr blinked cool blue eyes at him and said, “My father was only nine-and-thirty. He had it in him to be a great king, the greatest since Aegon the Dragon. Why would the gods take him, and leave you?”"

Maekar:

"His straight hair and square-cut beard were so fair they seemed white in the dimness of the hall, but as he got closer he saw that they were in truth a pale silvery color touched with gold."

"Thickly built and powerful, the prince—he was surely a prince— wore a leather brigandine covered with silver studs beneath a heavy black cloak trimmed with ermine. Pox scars marked his cheeks, only partly concealed by his silvery beard."

Daeron:

"His face had a sallow, unhealthy cast to it beneath a rat’s nest of sandy brown hair, and blond stubble crusted his chin."

"“Daeron has common hair, sort of a pale brown, nothing special, but mine is like Aerion’s and my father’s.”"

Aerion:

"Curls of silver-gold hair framed a face sculpted and imperious; high brow and sharp cheekbones, straight nose, pale smooth skin without blemish. His eyes were a deep violet color."

 

[Rufus Snow]

Wow - what a thread... I think I've found more clarification here than all the other 'theory' threads I've read put together. I really appreciate all the hard work sweetsunray put into the family trees - gives me a lot to think about, thank you!

[The Fattest Leech]

Updating the main post to answer the question about Rhaenys hair color in the OP.

From Fire & Blood: "With Lord Corlys came his wife, Princess Rhaenys, five-and-fifty, her face lean and lined, her black hair streaked with white, yet fierce and fearless as she had been at two-and-twenty. “The Queen Who Never Was,” Mushroom calls her."

[The Wondering Wolf]

On 12/9/2017 at 3:41 AM, Megorova said:

1. Prince of Dorne that has bend the knee to Daeron I in 158, was son of Aliandra and Drazenko Rogare, and father of Mariah and Maron. Thus Mariah and Maron were partially Valyrian, thru their grandfather, they were 25% Rogares, and carriers of b gene.

MUSH is not canon, but since it proved to be right on a lot of things confirmed in F&B: Maron descended from a younger sibling of Aliandra, nor Aliandra herself.

[Megorova]

On 11/28/2018 at 8:39 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

Updating the main post to answer the question about Rhaenys hair color in the OP.

Update also, that Rhaenys' mother, Jocelyn Baratheon, same as her brother, Boremund, and their father, Rogar, were all dark-haired.

"An old friend, and old adversary, returned to King’s Landing in 61 AC, when Lord Rogar Baratheon rode up from Storm’s End to deliver three young girls to court. Two were the daughters of his brother Ronnal, who had died shivering together with his wife and sons. The third was Lady Jocelyn, his lordship’s own daughter by Queen Alyssa. The small frail babe who had come into the world during that terrible Year of the Stranger had grown into a tall young girl of solemn mien, with large dark eyes and hair black as sin."

"Boremund Baratheon was the most imposing of the candidates. At eight-and-twenty, the Lord of Storm’s End was the image of his father, brawny and powerful, with a booming laugh, a great black beard, and a mane of thick black hair."

"Blue-eyed and black-bearded and muscled like a bull, Lord Rogar was the eldest of five brothers, all grandsons of Orys One-Hand, the first Baratheon Lord of Storm’s End. Orys had been a bastard brother to Aegon the Conqueror and his most trusted commander."

[Megorova]

More info about Rhaenys:

"Princess Rhaenys was born on the seventh day of the seventh moon of the year, which the septons judged to be highly auspicious. Large and fierce, she had the black hair of her Baratheon mother and the pale violet eyes of her Targaryen father. "

 

[The Fattest Leech]

Thanks @Megorova 

My reading has slowed up a tad for this book, so this helps! I will update soon.