Overtaking the books

[aFeastForDragons]

Here is a question that I'd like to see everyone's answer to. Did you ever expect the show to overtake the books and how did you think it was going to play out? i.e: Did you think the story would be wrapped up by now? Would George be releasing the last book just before next season? etc etc Oh and how long have you been reading the books? 

[Cas Stark]

It's a foregone conclusion that the show is going to finish the story before GRRM does. If the show goes 8 seasons, even if he gets the next book out some time in 2016, and it's a return to his earlier form, there is no way, no way at all he can get the last book done before the 8 season rolls around.  No way.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

I expected them to finish the series first but I never thought he wouldn't be able to get TWOW out in time before the show spoiled some elements from the book. 

I'm cool with it though. D & D are making so much crap up that I'm not sure I'll be able to tell what's a legit spoiler and what isn't.

[Dragon in the North]

I heard about the show first, but when I discovered it was an adaptation of a book series, I decided to read the books before watching the show. I read the firs two before the second season of GOT was released, and I finished the rest in about six months after that. By then, I had no idea how slow of a writer Martin was, so when my cousin expressed concern that the show would finish before the books, I didn't understand where his concern was coming from. I assured him that Martin would never let that happen. Apparently my cousin understood the author a hell of a lot better than I did. I'm not a patient man, so I won't wait for Martin to finish the series, if he ever finishes it. I'm fine with the show spoiling the books. I'm sure the two will be different enough for me to still enjoy reading them when/if they come out. In the meantime, I'll continue to enjoy one of the best shows on television.

[Ruhail]

I thought they would finish before him but he'd have TWoW out in time however im not too shook up about it. 

[Ben H'gahr]

59 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

I expected them to finish the series first but I never thought he wouldn't be able to get TWOW out in time before the show spoiled some elements from the book. 

I'm cool with it though. D & D are making so much crap up that I'm not sure I'll be able to tell what's a legit spoiler and what isn't.

you da Man Lord_Ravenstone, you da man!

I also expect GRRM to have decided for the "unexpected twist" to keep his opus more 'differentiated' from the show, i.e. this is a feature we'll only get in the book version of the saga. This way he is gonna keep ASOIF relevant beyond the show (in the sense: we know who's on the IT etc through the show but what happened w/that twist?)

I heard about the books before the show, but haven't read them after I saw S4. I wanted to read so that I finish them sufficiently close to the expected TWOW-release (i.e. around now), but finished much quicker than expected (around 1 year ago). Too bad GRRM is a slowpoke. Nevertheless, I became a diehard-ASOIF fan and also enjoy GRRM's other works.

As far as who overtakes what is concerned: well, it is now clear that the show finishes first (unless, as GRRM stated about 6 weeks ago in an interview, that he might bring out ADOS if GOT is extended to 10 seasons. I, for my part, think that's gibberish in GRRM's side, as per usual, about his writing speed).

Quite frankly, GRRM not finishing TWOW leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Why did he not accomplish to finish it? Why is he so horrible at assessing the speed and advancement of his own work? There are only speculative answers to these questions. Despite the GRRM-apologists out there (who have good points), I don't think that generic statements like "GRRM is not our bitch" or "as long as TWOW & ADOS are of good quality, GRRM can take as much time as he likes" help anyone. Contrary, we aren't GRRM's bitches either - bitches which go through all sorts of anticipation fueled, great expectations built up over years by his teases, just to end up w/nothing and another year passing by w/GRRM handing in like 5 pages to his publishers.

What bugs me is that I don't expect GRRM to ever finish the books. TWOW might come out, but ADOS has no chance of ever seeing the light of this world. For whatever reason, GRRM will just not be able to finish it - be it boredom, the degree of "difficulty" of the books, things that come with fame (travelling around, being a celebrity etc), his age, whatever it is - there are plenty of reasons that justify this projection and not many that render me optimistic. As much as I like this guy as a person and as an author, but he failed his own opus magnum.

For me, it feels like having ordered a 7-course meal. The first three were great, four & five were really good, build up huge expectations for the 6th. But then the 6th and 7th are a Big Mac and a Costco Muffin - that is, we will have to be satisfied with only ever seeing the show version of the end of the story. 

Also, if anybody thinks TWOW will come out "any time soon" is obviously either a fool or illusory. That book for sure will not come out this year or before S7 of GOT. The reason is readily explained: GRRM, after the infamous NYE-post, wrote for about 2.5 more months. Obviously the book ain't finished, otherwise we'd know. Then he went travelling to all sorts of publicity things. Now, he's on a book tour w/Stephen King afaik (as we all know he only writes when at home in Santa Fe). As we all know, in 2 weeks S6 comes out = GRRM occupied w/defending the results D&D's creative autonomy. After that, it's mid-June and if we are lucky GRRM will write a page or two. But ComicCon is around the corner, then the Hugos. Then football season starts = a time in which GRRM is notoriously occupied w/the Giants. Well, and as soon as that's over it's Christmas again. Who knows where GRRM is going to travel in the weeks between the above mentioned events because he is invited to Abu Dhabi or Nepal or Branson/MS or whatever place. 

But some guys might counter that he stated in the infamous NYE-post that he made so and so much progress and blablabla. Well, despite this being true, GRRM is horrible (horrible!) at judging his own progress and how long he will need. There is a link somewhere on the asoif-reddit about GRRM's blog posts about ADWD since 2007. This should be proof enough my statement about GRRM's ability to make true statements about his progress. 

"But TWOW = ADWD, this time it's much better, no Meereenees Knot etc, this is why it won't take that long for TWOW as for ADWD" one might say. Despite the premise being true, the conclusion ain't. It took him 5 years already - doesn't look as if TWOW is so much easier to write than ADWD, for whatever reason.

So, what's gonna happen: The show will go on and either end after 8 seasons, tell us the major outline of ASOIF (or D&D's interpretation thereof) and most ppl will happy w/that (contrary to popular belief, ppl aren't waiting for TWOW/ADOS to come out. They just wanna know what's gonna be the end of the story and then go on w/their lives. This way having failed the deadline of S6 will also not only be a credibility loss for GRRM, but also an economic loss). 

I think TWOW will come out at some point, but only hardcore fans will care. Mi guess is around 2019 (which is also Brynden BFish's 'pessimistic' forecast for TWOW) because GRRM just won't be able to finish it this year/before S6. Adding in two other years, including one w/o GOT-hype stealing his time and concentration, should suffice IMO.

[Mr Smith]

I started reading when I heard that GOT existed as a show, and was being praised as the new great fantasy epic. I've always been a book reader and I knew I needed to start the books before I started the show, so I read the first book before I watched Season 1. Loved them both, so I then read the second book, and then watched the second season. After season 2 I just read everything else. There is something to be said by the way for the show bringing readers to the books. For all that book readers give the show a hard time, a lot of us only read the books because the show exists.

I always figured the show would go 7 or 8 seasons, and I held out hope that the books would stay ahead of the show for longer than I care to admit. Even after season 5, I was as delusional as Martin himself about when the Winds of Winter might come out. Back around the time season 4 came out, I made a post mapping out how I thought season 5 would progress, as well as a bunch of reasons why I felt the length of time Martin took on Feast and Dance were a misrepresentation of his normal writing pace. Boy was I wrong...

I think it's going to be ok though. We had to put up with a lot of pain in Season 5, but now that the show has significantly differentiated itself from the books, I think things will progress a lot more smoothly. Take what's going on in the North in the show, compared to the books. There's literally no comparison. In the books, Stannis lives, Sansa is nowhere near Winterfell, the Northern lords are plotting to overthrow Ramsay and raise Jon Stark as King in the North, Mance is alive and playing his own twisted game in Winterfell... the differences go on. And thats ok. All that would have been extremely difficult to adapt on screen. I think I'm more or less at the point now where I can enjoy the show without worrying too much about it ruining my reading experience. The show may still disappoint me at times, but I'm prepared to accept that.

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

Did you ever expect the show to overtake the books and how did you think it was going to play out?  Did you think the story would be wrapped up by now?

I allways assumed the show would surpass the books because GRRM is lazy a slow writer. So the show would have to make its own version of the story finale much like what it happens in the Anime industry.

 

Would George be releasing the last book just before next season? 

Nope.

 

How long have you been reading the books? 

My girlfriend had a girl-friend who told her about the show at the time when the first episode aired and told me about it. I watched the first episode and was hooked. The next day went to the library and bought all the books and read them in 2 months.

[JonSnowed]

I started to read the books after watching the show, I really enjoy both mediums of the same story, the show improves on the books in some ways but I love the greater depth that the books can provide (although there are a few written chapters which really do feel like filler in ADWD).

I was one that wanted Winds out before Season 6 however I expect the content to be fairly close this season then diverge until the ending which I hope is written by GRRM.

[Ser Gareth]

13 hours ago, aFeastForDragons said:

Here is a question that I'd like to see everyone's answer to. Did you ever expect the show to overtake the books and how did you think it was going to play out? i.e: Did you think the story would be wrapped up by now? Would George be releasing the last book just before next season? etc etc Oh and how long have you been reading the books? 

I didn't expect it to overtake the books.  I genuinely believed the Meerense knot excuse and figured that once ADWD was out of the way GRRM would be back on track and writing at ASOS speed.

My first fears kicked in when I finished ADWD and Dany still hadn't made it to Westeros.  GRRM has stated his original intention was to have the 5 year gap and book 4 would start with Dany's arrival.  Bearing in mind that at this stage it was going to be a 5 novel series I am not at all hopeful the series will be finished in 7 books.  I think he'll need 8 and I don't think that's realistically possible.

I first read AGOT in the Summer of 1998.  The ironic thing is I never read series that are unfinished and yet I picked the book up in the bookstore prior to a long journey purely based on the fact I liked the cover and the reviews on the back.  Nowhere on the book did it state it was meant to be part of a trilogy etc. so I thought it was a standalone novel!  I was gutted when I got to the end to find out it wasn't, especially as I'd loved the book so much.  How little did I know that almost 20 years later the series wouldn't be anywhere near complete.....

[Lord Lyman]

I figured it was probable that the show would finish before the books. However since Dance came out right at the end of Season 1, and George already had a few chapters leftover, there was a good chance that Winds would be released before now. Oh well.

[Joe Pesci]

Well I read GoT before I watched the first season, and plowed through CoK, ASoS and AFfC before s2 came out. It seemed with the amount of time between Feast and Dance being released that the possibility existed, but it didn't really bother me. Enough differences have occurred that plenty of things will be different and so much more can be done on the page than on the screen. I enjoy both as separate entities so the differences don't bother me too much.

[Richard Writhen]

I feel like they could have drawn the show out more, left some deleted characters in, and maybe it wouldn't have caught up with the books, but at this point it's kind of a non-issue.

 

No use crying over spilt milk.

[Prince of the North]

22 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

I expected them to finish the series first but I never thought he wouldn't be able to get TWOW out in time before the show spoiled some elements from the book. 

I'm cool with it though. D & D are making so much crap up that I'm not sure I'll be able to tell what's a legit spoiler and what isn't.

I agree with these sentiments.  Also, I read AGOT and ACOK in late 1998/early 1999 and I have waited for each book after - with which I have absolutely no problem

[Sand11751]

Watched the first season and then read four books same year as show premiered. Read last two years ago. Absolutely expected the show would overtake the books, but held out some hope for the next book, until I realized GRRM's schedule / over-commitments would never allow it to come out before season 6. I have some theories about how things play out, but really I'm hoping the remaining Stark kids live, LSH gets some peace in the true death, Jon survives and finds out his heritage, Cersei dies but Jaime gets redemption before he kills her, BUT not before he and Brienne make sweet love, and Tyrion becomes hand of the next ruler. Whether that's Dany, I don't really care. Her story's just meandered all over the place and I'm bored with whether or not she'll ever sit on the throne.I love both the books and the show.

[Khione]

2011 - 5 books and one season of the show

5 years later - still 5 books and 6 seasons of the show

It's just laughable but totally expected. It's not the showrunners fault the writer is like that. GOT's a megaproduction, it's impossible to stall it just to cater to the author. He shouldn't be writing at a snail's pace or should have sold the rights after finishing the 6th books at least.

Now for a realistic prediction:

7 years later - still 5 books and 8 seasons of the show

10 years later - still 5 books

 

[aFeastForDragons]

Some very good posts. I looked back through this forum when ADWD came out and S1 first aired, people were very optimistic of the next two books coming out quickly. Its a shame its turned out this way but NOBODY is more disappointed than George.

11 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

I first read AGOT in the Summer of 1998.  The ironic thing is I never read series that are unfinished and yet I picked the book up in the bookstore prior to a long journey purely based on the fact I liked the cover and the reviews on the back.  Nowhere on the book did it state it was meant to be part of a trilogy etc. so I thought it was a standalone novel!  I was gutted when I got to the end to find out it wasn't, especially as I'd loved the book so much.  How little did I know that almost 20 years later the series wouldn't be anywhere near complete.....

It must be crazy for people like you who have been there since the start. 

[good girl]

I thought after Dance the hard middle was done and George would power through to the end. Not at the pace of the first 3 books but quick enough to stay ahead.

My pet theory is that George is dissatisfied with how A Dance with Dragons turned out and felt the book was rushed out and not all it could have been. The missing ending for Stannis and Meereen were (and still are) a huge disappointment to many readers.

It seems like his publishers assumed the show was going to be a flash in the pan and they had a limited time to exploit the bump in popularity which forced a deadline and meant Dance is unwieldy and unedited.

[Cas Stark]

On 4/12/2016 at 8:01 PM, Dragon in the North said:

 

[TheKitttenGuard]

27 minutes ago, bad pussy said:

I thought after Dance the hard middle was done and George would power through to the end. Not at the pace of the first 3 books but quick enough to stay ahead.

My pet theory is that George is dissatisfied with how A Dance with Dragons turned out and felt the book was rushed out and not all it could have been. The missing ending for Stannis and Meereen were (and still are) a huge disappointment to many readers.

It seems like his publishers assumed the show was going to be a flash in the pan and they had a limited time to exploit the bump in popularity which forced a deadline and meant Dance is unwieldy and unedited.

This is based on the Wikipedia page on Dance with Dragons:

On March 3, 2011, the publisher announced the novel will be out on July 12, 2011. The manuscript was still unfinished. 

March 27th Martin stated the manuscript was over 1,600 pages.

GOT premiered on 4/17/2011

April 27, 2011 the manuscript was announced completed.

May 27 the final draft was at 1,510 pages.