daccu65 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Maybe someone else can answer this, but what is with the Spearwife, Rowan? In the Theon chapters in ADwD, she acts like almost a fanatic Stark supporter, but she's supposed to be a spearwife from north of the wall. IIRC, the Stark family has a long history of cooperating with the NW. The Free Folk seem to have a complicated relationship with the NW...sometimes trading and sometimes fighting...but they seem to hate the 'crows' for the most part. Yet, as the 'washer women' were preparing to rescue Farya, Rowan was enraged about Theon's murder of Bran and Rickon and was angered that Theon even said the words 'Winter is Coming'. IIRC, just a few, short months previous to this, Rowan was a proud spearwife north of the wall, with contempt for the crows and the kneelers that supported them. How did she become a supporter of the Starks so quickly? Is it simple intimidation, did Jon's allowing the Free Folk to pass through the wall have that strong of an impression, is she just putting on an act, or am I missing something here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artos Cold Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 There is a theory that Rowan is Mors Umber's daughter, who was kidnapped by the wildlings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 7 hours ago, Artos Cold said: There is a theory that Rowan is Mors Umber's daughter, who was kidnapped by the wildlings. Yup. She acts like a Northern bc she was raised as one. To me, she sounds an awful lot like Wylla Manderly, fiercely loyal to her liege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 You don't need to be loyal to a person to demand respect for them. For the Wildlings, Ned raised Theon and he should have been loyal to him (they are ok with kidnapping and raiding, for example). So, he should have behaved like a son to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, JonCon's Red Beard said: You don't need to be loyal to a person to demand respect for them. For the Wildlings, Ned raised Theon and he should have been loyal to him (they are ok with kidnapping and raiding, for example). So, he should have behaved like a son to him. While I agree with the idea, I don't think that's the case with Rowan. She's far too defensive to just be a wildling wanting others to be respectful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daccu65 Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share Posted April 13, 2016 1 hour ago, DarkSister1001 said: While I agree with the idea, I don't think that's the case with Rowan. She's far too defensive to just be a wildling wanting others to be respectful. That would explain her reaction to Theon's (fake) murder of Bran and Rickon. I think she's just too aggressive about the "Winter is Coming" reaction for it to be simple demand for respect. 8 hours ago, Artos Cold said: There is a theory that Rowan is Mors Umber's daughter, who was kidnapped by the wildlings. The best answer I've heard...and thank you. How long ago (before ADwD) was she kidnapped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 10 hours ago, Artos Cold said: There is a theory that Rowan is Mors Umber's daughter, who was kidnapped by the wildlings. If she is a fanatic Stark supporter because she is an Umber daughter, why did she not tell anyone at the wall so she could go home? She is no northern daughter. She was born and raised beyond the wall 3 hours ago, JonCon's Red Beard said: You don't need to be loyal to a person to demand respect for them. For the Wildlings, Ned raised Theon and he should have been loyal to him (they are ok with kidnapping and raiding, for example). So, he should have behaved like a son to him. She could also be a parent, or former parent, who has a love of children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow of the Morning Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Some believe she is Mors Umber's granddaughter and her mother teach her to respect the Starks, but may be she find Theon despicable for what he supposed did to Bran and Rickon. I think the Wildlings don't tolerate kinslaying as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 12 hours ago, Dorian Martell said: If she is a fanatic Stark supporter because she is an Umber daughter, why did she not tell anyone at the wall so she could go home? She is no northern daughter. She was born and raised beyond the wall Stockholm syndrome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 3 minutes ago, DarkSister1001 said: Stockholm syndrome? wouldn't that prevent her from identifying with her northern roots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 1 minute ago, Dorian Martell said: wouldn't that prevent her from identifying with her northern roots? Not if it was so ingrained that she couldn't resist. It's still there, deep down. But on the surface she's fine with her "captors". Her reaction certainly seems like an uncontrolled outburst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Duncan The Average Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I always assumed it was because a Stark Bastard had just let the wildlings through the wall and some of the wildlings were somewhat grateful about that, or at least grateful enough that they would be angry about what Theon had supposedly done to Bran and Rickon. Also, I might be mis-rembering this, but I think that at some point in ADWD Jon Snow convinced Stannis to leave behind the wildlings when he marched on Winterfell in front of a glamoured Mance Raider, who might have then told his spearwives, hence Rowan's pro Stark leanings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walda Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 The laws of the Old Gods on hospitality and kinslaying are the same both sides of the wall. Even if she is not related to the Umbers, she might regard Theon as accursed, and that curse might extend to the place that shelters her and all within, thanks to (what she believes are) Theon's actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I thought this was going to be about Mathis Rowan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 27 minutes ago, DarkSister1001 said: Not if it was so ingrained that she couldn't resist. It's still there, deep down. But on the surface she's fine with her "captors". Her reaction certainly seems like an uncontrolled outburst. 15 minutes ago, Ser Duncan The Average said: I always assumed it was because a Stark Bastard had just let the wildlings through the wall and some of the wildlings were somewhat grateful about that, or at least grateful enough that they would be angry about what Theon had supposedly done to Bran and Rickon. Also, I might be mis-rembering this, but I think that at some point in ADWD Jon Snow convinced Stannis to leave behind the wildlings when he marched on Winterfell in front of a glamoured Mance Raider, who might have then told his spearwives, hence Rowan's pro Stark leanings. 10 minutes ago, Walda said: The laws of the Old Gods on hospitality and kinslaying are the same both sides of the wall. Even if she is not related to the Umbers, she might regard Theon as accursed, and that curse might extend to the place that shelters her and all within, thanks to (what she believes are) Theon's actions. All good responses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Rowan seemed to hold Theon in great contempt. This alone would not have been suspect, but she also took great umbrage at Theon’s use of House Stark’s words, suggesting she was actually a daughter of the North rather than a native of the Free Folk, although there did seem to be a grudging respect of, or awe for, House Stark among the Free Folk. Rowan, tall and skinny, too lean and leathery to be called pretty, but attractive with auburn hair, could very well have been the daughter Mors lost during a wilding raid. Perhaps Mance stopped at Last Hearth with Rowan on his way to Winterfell? Perhaps Rowan convinced her father that he should not be demanding Mance’s skull for a drinking cup after all? Mors later arrived at Winterfell. He did not attack, but he started blowing war horns, presumably to instill fear in the defenders, but possibly to alert agents on the inside, and notice that was precisely when Mance decided it was time to bug out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daccu65 Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share Posted April 13, 2016 9 minutes ago, GallowsKnight said: I thought this was going to be about Mathis Rowan... Sorry for the confusion: 2 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Mors later arrived at Winterfell. He did not attack, but he started blowing war horns, presumably to instill fear in the defenders, but possibly to alert agents on the inside, and notice that was precisely when Mance decided it was time to bug out. I thought that the spearwives decided that they had to execute their plan after Roose declared he was sending the Freys and Manderlys after Stannis...not when the horns first started to blow. I freely admit that they could be interconnected or I could have interpreted the scene wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 15 minutes ago, daccu65 said: Sorry for the confusion: I thought that the spearwives decided that they had to execute their plan after Roose declared he was sending the Freys and Manderlys after Stannis...not when the horns first started to blow. I freely admit that they could be interconnected or I could have interpreted the scene wrong. Mors arrives and starts blowing his warhorn near the end of A Ghost in Winterfell, during the hour of the Wolf. Theon wanders into the godswood, where Rowan finds and him and says Abel wants him. As Theon I opens, we find that Abel has already given the escape plan to Theon and the spearwives. Then the fight between Manderly and Frey erupts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daccu65 Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share Posted April 13, 2016 9 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said: As Theon I opens, we find that Abel has already given the escape plan to Theon and the spearwives. Then the fight between Manderly and Frey erupts. Again, I could be misunderstanding, but I thought that Abel and the spearwives (after getting Theon to spill how he had gotten in) had come up with the plan after the Umbers showed up and started blowing horns and pounding drums. I thought that they decided they needed to execute the plan after the fight...and after Roose announced that the Freys and Manderlys were going to go out to fight Stannis. I got the impression that Roose sending the Freys and Manderlys out prompted the Spearfwives to execute the plan before they wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 20 minutes ago, daccu65 said: Again, I could be misunderstanding, but I thought that Abel and the spearwives (after getting Theon to spill how he had gotten in) had come up with the plan after the Umbers showed up and started blowing horns and pounding drums. I thought that they decided they needed to execute the plan after the fight...and after Roose announced that the Freys and Manderlys were going to go out to fight Stannis. I got the impression that Roose sending the Freys and Manderlys out prompted the Spearfwives to execute the plan before they wanted to. It pretty much happens at the same time. It does seem clear that the Manderly-Frey clash, and Roose's order for them to go out speeds up the escape, but the sequence begins with the arrival of Mors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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