[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Reprecussions - Season 6, Tally-Ho

[nekrohsis]

2 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

I always found that odd from the book too.  Especially as there are other clear attempted rapes at the wall once the Wildings pass.  I can only put it down to people being scared of her.

I think in the books she looks more overtly frightening (like we see through Cressen's POV) and unnatural. Like on Outlander this week, 

Spoiler

where Claire is not raped because of her association with a supernatural creature.

Basically, the superstitious men of the NW have a feeling it would be a bad idea. Also, I think she has a powder in her store that dampens lust, but I could be remembering it wrong. Mostly just her appearance and her reputation. 

Of course, the show isn't interested in showing how Mel's appearance is a form of protection and intimidation. Her appearance exists for one (well, two) things only.

[sweetsunray]

13 minutes ago, nekrohsis said:

I think in the books she looks more overtly frightening (like we see through Cressen's POV) and unnatural. Like on Outlander this week, 

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where Claire is not raped because of her association with a supernatural creature.

Basically, the superstitious men of the NW have a feeling it would be a bad idea. Also, I think she has a powder in her store that dampens lust, but I could be remembering it wrong. Mostly just her appearance and her reputation. 

Of course, the show isn't interested in showing how Mel's appearance is a form of protection and intimidation. Her appearance exists for one (well, two) things only.

You forget the Queen's Men and Wun-Wun. Pretty sure they'd like a piece of Val too. But with Wun Wun guarding the entrance, you must be a nut to try. The Queen's Men are devout followres of Mel, since their Queen Selyse is a devout follower of Mel. Queen's Men are knights and lords (that lost their land and keep). They're battle hardened. And the Hound would call them trained killers.Meanwhile the majority of the NW is made out of stewards and workers that can barely fight. So, Mel, Selyse and Val and Monster's nurses have multiple bodyguards to ensure their safety. Anybody trying knows they either die in the attempt or get their head chopped off by Jon.

It's way different in the show. Jon's dead for 2 episodes and the sole guy that could possibly count as a protector of Mel is Davos who's holed up in another room (let's forget that nobody made an effort to guard the door to prevent Edd from slipping out). And while Ghost protected Gilly in S5, Ghost is in that room with Davos. So, here Mel is in fact without any bodyguard and completely defenseless. And if we have to accept that supposedly everybody already knows that Stannis is dead at CB, then why would any men of the NW rape central even fear for her magic?

Even if Jon is dead for a while at CB in the books, you still have Queen's Men and wildlings and Wun Wun already present. Nobody of the NW is going to touch any of their women.

[alienarea]

3 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Something else that bugs me a lot regarding the Castle Black plotline is Davos and those NW-men in the room with Jon. On the one hand we get scenes of Thorne giving ultimatums of surrendering and coming out and all the rest of the NW aiming crossbows at that door, and Davos and Instafriends answering they need to discuss it. You would at least think that the NW would keep a rotating guard on that door or something. But no. Edd can just leave to go get the wildlings. Doesn't seem like they're trapped at all or holed up. They're free to move around as they please for the whole day, with nobody caring about it. Just as long as they're back behind the door when the time of the ultimatum comes and surrender, or Thorne's breaking down the door.

And I don't get why logically Mel hasn't been subjected to a rape attempt yet. Last season NW was full of rapists trying to get Gilly. But Mel - who'd look far more appetizing to them than Gilly, and has been walking around the castle for months without fur cloaks and a gigantic decollete - gets to move around and go to her room without a hitch, even though her sole ally and protector is supposedly holed up in a room together with that pesky wolf that interrupted them last time.

Or why does none of the NW come up with the idea that they could force Davos and Instafriends to surrender by taking her hostage?

But no, despite them using the defense of what "realistically would have happened" to any bride of Ramsay's, the NW rapists apparently do not want to rape Mel (they don't know about Mel being really really old), and are too honorable to take her hostage, and just want Jon's body for some odd reason.

Maybe her glamour doesn't work on the Nightwatch?

[sweetsunray]

13 minutes ago, alienarea said:

Maybe her glamour doesn't work on the Nightwatch?

Selective glamoring, and only the raper NW are not affected.

[Crixus]

I'm on the brink of abandoning the show. There were a couple of moments that had glimmers of ASOIAF like the Sansa/Theon farewell (though again, too heavy handed with the Aragorn=Theon speech), and despite LOATHING the entire idea of the dragons bowing down to Tyrion and possibly foreshadowing his rider abilities (NOOOOOOOO!!!!), I liked that they used an actual bit of dialogue from the books (Tyrion's lifelong fascination with dragons) and I must admit, Dinklage did a good job (see, my-recent-irrational-Dinklage-hatred? It isn't him, he's fab. It's the showrunners!). 

Cersei and Jaime??? I just don't know what I am watching here. Jaime is the biggest fucking imbecile in Westeros now, clearly, and Tommen got a Joffrey makeover while we were sleeping so he somehow wants to channel Cersei now??? Just...I got nothin'. 

And then the resurrection. I actually didn't mind the muted atmosphere, but the CLICHED AS FUCK trope of people leaving the room???? Gah. Not to mention a clear lack of cost or sacrifice (they may show this in the next episode but I wouldn't hold my breath). Mel should have aged or died... hell, I was expecting Ghost to die (I would have hated that) just to get some notion of, I don't know, a cost involved in bringing people back? 

Roose/Ramsay: strict parody territory, this. And it makes the likelihood of the Rickon spoilers even more disgusting and unnecessary: seriously, HOW MANY TIMES DO WE NEED TO KNOW RAMSAY'S A FOUL EVIL NUTTER?? It's beyond parody now, in fact, Every episode. Every fucking episode has to have 1 scene where we are told: GUESS WHAT?! RAMSAY IS THE EVILEST EVIL WHO EVER EVILED!!! 

Bloody fucking hell. 

 

[sweetsunray]

2 minutes ago, Crixus said:

I liked that they used an actual bit of dialogue from the books (Tyrion's lifelong fascination with dragons)

Which is actually a repeat of Tyrion telling about his fascination for dragons to Jon in S1 IIRC.

[Ser Quork]

1 minute ago, Crixus said:

I'm on the brink of abandoning the show. There were a couple of moments that had glimmers of ASOIAF like the Sansa/Theon farewell (though again, too heavy handed with the Aragorn=Theon speech),

 

Yeah, I ranted about the cheap  Aragorn rip-off too.  Imagine how much better that could have been with some of Theon's own thoughts from ADWD - "Where was I?  I should have died with him."

[kissdbyfire]

9 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

That frightens me . Good call. I am remembering that Littlefinger did tell Sansa that Lyanna was raped... which was right before Sansa was raped chose to do her wifely duty.

Do we know the actress name for Lyanna?

It was the other way around. Sansa said Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna, and LF gives her a funny look, like, "no, that's not what happened". 

[Tijgy]

14 minutes ago, Crixus said:

Roose/Ramsay: strict parody territory, this. And it makes the likelihood of the Rickon spoilers even more disgusting and unnecessary: seriously, HOW MANY TIMES DO WE NEED TO KNOW RAMSAY'S A FOUL EVIL NUTTER?? It's beyond parody now, in fact, Every episode. Every fucking episode has to have 1 scene where we are told: GUESS WHAT?! RAMSAY IS THE EVILEST EVIL WHO EVER EVILED!!! 

 

The weird thing is that Iwan said we were going to forced to sympathize with him? How are they going to do that? The only thing which might be considered sympathetic in some people eyes was his father issues. He just killed his father and his little bro. 

It is just impossible to care for him and it is not like Rheon is so spectacular to still make some people sympathize about Wamsay  while maybe some amazing actors might have been able to do that. 

I hate Ramsay Sue.

[The Fattest Leech]

6 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

It was the other way around. Sansa said Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna, and LF gives her a funny look, like, "no, that's not what happened". 

Yes that's it. Sorry. Somethings just aren't memorable 

[Tijgy]

15 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

It was the other way around. Sansa said Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna, and LF gives her a funny look, like, "no, that's not what happened". 

LF knows everything like always of course  he will probably tell Jon about his parents. 

[Cas Stark]

2 hours ago, ArabellaVidal said:

My hubs watched the episode last night and he is generally very fond of the show.

He predicted every single 'shock' and was extremely underwhelmed by the resurrection. That's how crappy this season is. People saying that book readers are taking their anger at GRRM out on the show are really not even trying a better defence than that.

While re-watching the Euron scene last night it occurred to me that maybe Balon slashed him in the eye when falling and maybe we would actually see him look like Euron. But nope, just a slash across the cheek.

Also, why does Arthur Dayne look like a wimpy teenager? This is just a nitpick compared to the utter stupidity of the two swords swinging like windmills and leaving his guts open for an easy penetration. How exactly did this dude become a KG? Even the lumbering Gregor had technique. Do the Dornish have absolutely no fighting abilities other than being stylish or Snake-fuing?

I wasn't impressed with Arthur Dayne either, and he appears to have a Northern accent, unless I misheard the clip...which shouldn't he sound more like Oberyn than Ned? LOL.

Euron was very unimpressive.  We'll see if he's any better when you can see him.  

[Cas Stark]

39 minutes ago, Crixus said:

I'm on the brink of abandoning the show. There were a couple of moments that had glimmers of ASOIAF like the Sansa/Theon farewell (though again, too heavy handed with the Aragorn=Theon speech), and despite LOATHING the entire idea of the dragons bowing down to Tyrion and possibly foreshadowing his rider abilities (NOOOOOOOO!!!!), I liked that they used an actual bit of dialogue from the books (Tyrion's lifelong fascination with dragons) and I must admit, Dinklage did a good job (see, my-recent-irrational-Dinklage-hatred? It isn't him, he's fab. It's the showrunners!). 

Cersei and Jaime??? I just don't know what I am watching here. Jaime is the biggest fucking imbecile in Westeros now, clearly, and Tommen got a Joffrey makeover while we were sleeping so he somehow wants to channel Cersei now??? Just...I got nothin'. 

And then the resurrection. I actually didn't mind the muted atmosphere, but the CLICHED AS FUCK trope of people leaving the room???? Gah. Not to mention a clear lack of cost or sacrifice (they may show this in the next episode but I wouldn't hold my breath). Mel should have aged or died... hell, I was expecting Ghost to die (I would have hated that) just to get some notion of, I don't know, a cost involved in bringing people back? 

Roose/Ramsay: strict parody territory, this. And it makes the likelihood of the Rickon spoilers even more disgusting and unnecessary: seriously, HOW MANY TIMES DO WE NEED TO KNOW RAMSAY'S A FOUL EVIL NUTTER?? It's beyond parody now, in fact, Every episode. Every fucking episode has to have 1 scene where we are told: GUESS WHAT?! RAMSAY IS THE EVILEST EVIL WHO EVER EVILED!!! 

Bloody fucking hell. 

 

I think they're going for another top 10 TV list, they want Ramsay to be the best/worse TV villian of all time or at least among the top.  That's going to be their legacy on GOT:  how many top 10 lists did it make...worst weddings, most shocking twist, worst villian....

[ArabellaVidal]

2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I wasn't impressed with Arthur Dayne either, and he appears to have a Northern accent, unless I misheard the clip...which shouldn't he sound more like Oberyn than Ned? LOL.

Euron was very unimpressive.  We'll see if he's any better when you can see him.  

They really don't listen to criticism, do they? Bad lighting is here to stay.

I just re-watched the promo and realized that Ned is the one who looks like the nerdy teen. Angsting about the line-swap for nothing. At this point I just expect the worst.

[Cas Stark]

6 minutes ago, ArabellaVidal said:

They really don't listen to criticism, do they? Bad lighting is here to stay.

I just re-watched the promo and realized that Ned is the one who looks like the nerdy teen. Angsting about the line-swap for nothing. At this point I just expect the worst.

I think criticism makes them stubborn.  We'll see if Gilly's now 4? year old baby is still an infant.  It's so absurd that not one critic has mentioned this fact that the baby isn't aging, at all.  

[kissdbyfire]

You know, it's not just all the absurd we have to swallow and pretend is not there, pretend that everything makes sense. It's not just poor characterisation and character regression, jet packs and GPS tracking devices, Twitter feeds, etc etc etc. There was never any doubt in my mind that all those things were here to stay, end of story, and I've felt like that since at least some point during s 4. And it became obvious after s 5 that there was no way in hell these issues would somehow improve. All these problems are created by poor planning and extremely poor writing, but the worse crime at this point, since I've long since given up on characterisation, logic, proper storytelling, is how mind-numbingly BORING the show is. I mean, since they can't be bothered with the story making sense, or the characters making sense in show verse, it means they can do pretty much anything. But no, everything is boring and underwhelming, and so fucking predictable. Unbelievable, truly. It is a special talent, no doubt. 

[RUSSELL BELL]

1 hour ago, Crixus said:

I'm on the brink of abandoning the show. There were a couple of moments that had glimmers of ASOIAF like the Sansa/Theon farewell (though again, too heavy handed with the Aragorn=Theon speech), and despite LOATHING the entire idea of the dragons bowing down to Tyrion and possibly foreshadowing his rider abilities (NOOOOOOOO!!!!), I liked that they used an actual bit of dialogue from the books (Tyrion's lifelong fascination with dragons) and I must admit, Dinklage did a good job (see, my-recent-irrational-Dinklage-hatred? It isn't him, he's fab. It's the showrunners!). 

Cersei and Jaime??? I just don't know what I am watching here. Jaime is the biggest fucking imbecile in Westeros now, clearly, and Tommen got a Joffrey makeover while we were sleeping so he somehow wants to channel Cersei now??? Just...I got nothin'. 

And then the resurrection. I actually didn't mind the muted atmosphere, but the CLICHED AS FUCK trope of people leaving the room???? Gah. Not to mention a clear lack of cost or sacrifice (they may show this in the next episode but I wouldn't hold my breath). Mel should have aged or died... hell, I was expecting Ghost to die (I would have hated that) just to get some notion of, I don't know, a cost involved in bringing people back? 

Roose/Ramsay: strict parody territory, this. And it makes the likelihood of the Rickon spoilers even more disgusting and unnecessary: seriously, HOW MANY TIMES DO WE NEED TO KNOW RAMSAY'S A FOUL EVIL NUTTER?? It's beyond parody now, in fact, Every episode. Every fucking episode has to have 1 scene where we are told: GUESS WHAT?! RAMSAY IS THE EVILEST EVIL WHO EVER EVILED!!! 

Bloody fucking hell. 

 

Yeah but Thoros brought back Beric without any clear cost or sacrifice. The lord of light decides who to bring back but they might well be repercussions.

[LadySoftheart]

The problem isn't only that the show is a poor adaptation at this point; it's that it forgets its own canon with great regularity AND relies on the characters to basically have read the books and watched the show so they know shit they shouldn't know. It's either that or ridiculously clumsy exposition (like Euron's because they had no idea they were going to use another Greyjoy - tell me again how things were planned way in advance?) How else can we explain Davos's sudden completely inexplicable unwavering loyalty to Jon? How to explain Balon knowing Stannis was dead but Davos not even asking the only person who came back from Stannis's expedition to Winterfell what became of the guy who raised him up? How to explain Brienne nor Pod mentioning that "a man" was Sandor Clegane? 

As writers this is almost the opposite of what Martin does with his POV structure: his characters operate with incomplete or distorted information a LOT, but on the show, it looks like the characters have read the scripts themselves so they can just connect the dots. 

[Tijgy]

6 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

You know, it's not just all the absurd we have to swallow and pretend is not there, pretend that everything makes sense. It's not just poor characterisation and character regression, jet packs and GPS tracking devices, Twitter feeds, etc etc etc. There was never any doubt in my mind that all those things were here to stay, end of story, and I've felt like that since at least some point during s 4. And it became obvious after s 5 that there was no way in hell these issues would somehow improve. All these problems are created by poor planning and extremely poor writing, but the worse crime at this point, since I've long since given up on characterisation, logic, proper storytelling, is how mind-numbingly BORING the show is. I mean, since they can't be bothered with the story making sense, or the characters making sense in show verse, it means they can do pretty much anything. But no, everything is boring and underwhelming, and so fucking predictable. Unbelievable, truly. It is a special talent, no doubt. 

I thought season four was already very boring. 

And they are using now constantly killing people as a sort shock/twist but I have always the reaction to laugh? For the rest I don't really feel anything about their death (except maybe how the whole setup of the death is just offensive storytelling but that is completely different in my eyes). 

I must say, while the whole Walda & Baby scene was again something to shock people (oh, dogs eat women and her newborn) I must say I actually start to feel something about her death? I really felt the dread ... or at least until Ramsay said "I am lord Bolton" now which made the show again in the very dark and grim comedy with no real emotional feelings . 

[ArabellaVidal]

21 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I think criticism makes them stubborn.  We'll see if Gilly's now 4? year old baby is still an infant.  It's so absurd that not one critic has mentioned this fact that the baby isn't aging, at all.  

Just think. Walda conceived, carried to full term, gave birth and started walking around but (and I have high hopes of this) Li'l Sam will be a few-month old baby still.