[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Reprecussions - Season 6, Tally-Ho

[sweetsunray]

Balon quipping he won the war of the five kings since he was the last one living bugged me since basically somehow Balon knows of Stannis being dead and mentions it, but Davos doesn't. I get that there was time and possibility for Davos to figure the fate of his king out after Mel returned at the end of S5 OFF-SCREEN... but if they can have Balon address our criticism of him being alive by mentioning Stannis's death, then they ought to have Davos refer to it too. Heck they could have used it to give him a motivation to help Jon - my king believed in him, yadayadayada... sure would be cliche, but it's better than completely avoiding the issue.

And then Brienne retconning her story about Arya and the Hound. Either it's D&D retconning Brienne's memory, or Brienne is lying about it on purpose but why should she? She doesn't know that the Hound saved Sansa multiple times. She thought he's an evil, dangerous man. If she wanted to make herself look good with Sansa, Brute would boast she rescued Arya from the Hound by killing him. But no, somehow Brute knows it would be bad for her if she tells Fansa that she killed the Hound, so she retcons her story about the encounter.

WTF? People who cannot possibly know stuff know it, and people who should logically in the show know stuff do not? I use the term word salad for speech or writing when someone puts together words that sound like it is important, but where you somehow zone out and the meaning deludes you (Batfinger has plenty of them), because it does not mean anythign really. It just sounds interesting. But the show does more than include word-salad speeches. The whole show is becoming plot-salad. It looks interesting and important, but it makes no effing sense and just confuses.

[The Winged Wolf Bran Stark]

From Business Insider, an interview with Isaac Hempstead-Wright about the Jon Snow "cover up": http://www.businessinsider.com/game-of-thrones-isaac-hempstead-wright-on-jon-snow-reveal-2016-5

A quote that makes me fear for Bran:

Quote

"I saw that he died at the end of season five," the actor said. "And I thought, 'Well, that happens at the end of the books anyway, so no surprise there.' "

OH NO ISAAC HAS ACKNOWLEDGED THE BOOKS, BRAN IS DOOMED!

I really hope this means he's either read the books or has talked about them with someone. Maybe Ellie. Or I'm just reading too much into things cause I want Isaac to not start bashing the books and book readers like Maisie.

On Bran's fate, he says:

Quote

"I think Bran has given up any hope for a reunion with the Starks, or any character for that matter," he said. "I think he has risen above the basics of getting back together, regrouping, and working something out, because it's been hammered into Bran that he's got a responsibility in the wider world of Westeros, a responsibility that may be quite massive."

Wow, a character has a motivation other than VENGEANCE! And this sounds rather in line with where book!Bran might go (letting go of the dream of reuniting with his family because of a greater responsibility) so maybe there is hope. 

[sweetsunray]

Something else that bugs me a lot regarding the Castle Black plotline is Davos and those NW-men in the room with Jon. On the one hand we get scenes of Thorne giving ultimatums of surrendering and coming out and all the rest of the NW aiming crossbows at that door, and Davos and Instafriends answering they need to discuss it. You would at least think that the NW would keep a rotating guard on that door or something. But no. Edd can just leave to go get the wildlings. Doesn't seem like they're trapped at all or holed up. They're free to move around as they please for the whole day, with nobody caring about it. Just as long as they're back behind the door when the time of the ultimatum comes and surrender, or Thorne's breaking down the door.

And I don't get why logically Mel hasn't been subjected to a rape attempt yet. Last season NW was full of rapists trying to get Gilly. But Mel - who'd look far more appetizing to them than Gilly, and has been walking around the castle for months without fur cloaks and a gigantic decollete - gets to move around and go to her room without a hitch, even though her sole ally and protector is supposedly holed up in a room together with that pesky wolf that interrupted them last time.

Or why does none of the NW come up with the idea that they could force Davos and Instafriends to surrender by taking her hostage?

But no, despite them using the defense of what "realistically would have happened" to any bride of Ramsay's, the NW rapists apparently do not want to rape Mel (they don't know about Mel being really really old), and are too honorable to take her hostage, and just want Jon's body for some odd reason.

The whole angsty-holed up in a cell with the majority of NW just following Thorne was just way too contrived. They should have just had Thorne & Co arrested in episode 1, period. It would have been the most logical conclusion, instead of thise fake angst stuff, that is full of holes.

[Morna The Maid]

Nah, he's not saying that "Bran 'saw' Jon die through the Weirwood Net"  and that GRRM has told him what happens to Bran! He's saying 'I, Isaac, saw Jon Snow die on the show", and he's saying merely that Jon dying on the show was no surprise to him when he watched, since it happened in the book.

Really, stop reading into things. Do you seriously think that George has told anybody on this planet (other than D/D, ironically, and how he must now HATE that decision) the fate of each character? Or maybe George hasn't even told them everything. I hope not. And even if George told D/D everything, if they punish people for reading the books, do you think they would share with the *actors* what GRRM  has in store for their characters? When they so clearly have a much superior fate for them *cough*. Don't worry, we're safe.

 

As to Bran dying or not, I think his fate is foretold. He will not die a conventional "death", he might  be like Bloodraven and merge with the tree and his soul and stories etc etc will become part of the Weirwood net. But even though he has this great power, I am heartbroken for Bran. The loneliness he must feel. He is destined eventually to lose his human companions in some way, Hodor, Meera, Summer....and will have only Cotf for companions. Unless after the Battle of the Dawn, there is some other fate in store for him? We really don't know.

I've been reading/watching how everyone is so excited everywhere for ToJ next week, and I am enraged beyond words that it is D/D who will likely be defining how the core narrative of the ASOIAF mythology is remembered by the general public. In an alternate universe, George would be writing this pivotal next episode, he'd make sure of it and a respectful show-runner would grant his wishes b/c they'd understand how important this is to him........the ToJ is just SO much more important than Ned's death or Blackwater or Joffrey's death, only the RW is as important. And the media would be full of footage of George discussing this pivotal story in the ASOIAF mythology and how he worked with the show-runners and talking about the wonderful actors, the how and why, taking questions from fans etc. I remember reading or watching a documentary on the making of Return of the Jedi, and how George Lucas himself filmed with a hand-held camera the scene of Luke being fried  by the Emperor and Vader killing him. In the film, we can tell that it is a hand-held camera held by someone slowly walking toward Mark Hamill writhing on the floor; that someone walking slowly toward Mark was Lucas himself holding the camera. So we know that for George Lucas, this wa he most important part of the story to him and he filmed it himself. In an alternate universe, the ToJ would have a smilar input of some kind from GRRM.

Instead he has to shut up and stay silent while these frauds begin to steal his legacy next week. I'm sure he's done his level best to not be spoiled but he has know thaat the ToJ is next week. God I hope he is able to distance himself.  I mean, if we find out either that Jon Snow, the show's HERO, was the product of a rape (JUST LIKE RAMSEY WAS, OH BOY THE BOTB THEY HAVE IN COMMON!! THEY'RE EQUAL!) or that Robert's Rebellion was the fault of Robert The Slut (and not either a romance between the two but romance what that?? All we know is rape) or Rhaegar's fault...the Starks even have to be demonized in the past...

 

I mean, if the Seastone Chair becomes the big ol' block of Salt Throne, I'll bet you won't see a blue rose anywhere around the place, nope, only a bed with the damned *afterbirth* splattered on the floor, knowing D/D.

[Le Cygne]

1 hour ago, HairGrowsBack said:

Oh, remember when this was supposed to be THE moment, when Larry was finally going to turn on Carol, because the High Grandpa would tell him about Lancel ? 

Yeah, those THE moments never come, do they. I don't know which is worse, Larry or "a man"... I'll just say it again, they couldn't write their way out of a paper bag.

(Oddly, Brienne's line about Sandor is the most romantic thing in the show to date: "She was with a man. I don't think he hurt her. She didn't want to leave him, and he didn't want to leave her.")

[b09boy]

Another mediocre episode, another heap of praise from critics.  To be fair it was a better episode than last week, but we are comparing turds at the point.

-Open with Bran and, hey look they recast another character with someone who looks completely different.  I know this is a nitpick, but couldn’t they even have added a beard to this guy?  Hell, who’s cutting all these people’s hair?  Whatever, we go to Winterfell to see Ned and Benjen fighting under Rodrick, and hey there’s Lyanna.  It’s not the scene of the past I’d have chosen, and the dialogue is kinda…blech (‘You were happy once,’ ‘stop riding your horse 20 feet away from us, we’re sparring!’)  but it does set the stage for Bran exploring these flashbacks…if that’s all they were going to do for now.  No, they decide to introduce some plot with Hodor (Wylis, changed from Walder for some reason).  Why?  Don’t we have enough plots to juggle without creating one about the downfall of freaking Hodor, of all people?  At least we see they actually spent more than pocket change for Leaf’s makeup effects this season, but what’s this about drowning if you stay under too long?  The guy plugged into a tree warning about getting lost in past?  I know they need the scene to end somehow, but good God this dialogue.  Well whatever, Bran goes out to see Meera (why does this cave have a door suddenly?) who’s still being pouty.  Talk about a War coming, with generic disdainful remark followed by teleporting character with thoughtful line about how Bran needs Meera…for…something.  God, this writing is lazy.  It’s like they went directly to tvtropes and copied off the dialogue examples.

-Next we come to the Wall and it’s finally time for a confrontation, because episode 1 is finally over and they can’t reasonably plug in anymore filler.  Thorne is still treating with Davos, and not his brothers for some reason, and Davos is getting involved in all this because…uh…  Anyway, we get the trailer bait line (which is more than a little out of place among a bunch of hardened NW without Mel or anyone of the like around) and Thorne nods for the door to be broken down.  It’s a tense scene, waiting, wondering, not knowing how many times they’ll swing the ax at the door before the wildlings arrive just in the nick of time.  Unfortunately, I lost the bet.  Put my money on 3 or ‘they just manage to get the door down,’ but I should’ve known better.  That latter would require they budget for an actual fight where Ghost might actually do something and the former doesn’t offer nearly enough tense filler.  Nah, the actual answer is 14.  So the wildling arrive at the…gate…hmm, we’ll just tuck this one away.  Anyway, wildlings come to save the day, and somehow none of the dozens of guys positioned around with bows let fly.  Well, except for the one comic relief guy so we could see Wun Wun smash, but otherwise it’s rather bloodless.  Huh.  Very cordial of everyone.  Thorne goes on about wildlings, and for some reason all I can hear is Vegeta stating, “you see, you’re not dealing with the average saiyan any longer…”  Olly breaks the tensions with stupid and he and Thorne (and nobody else) are thrown into the cells so Jon can kill them/forgive them of their sins later.  Tormund is taken to look at Jon and FINALLY someone wants to burn the freaking body, as we scroll to another long shot to confirm once again, for the last freaking time, YES already!  Jon is dead, stop asking!

-Off we go to King’s Landing, where some nobody is talking in the streets about how he and Cersei had a moment during her walk of shame.  Riveting.  He goes to take a piss, when out of nowhere comes Robert Strong.  Cue piss joke (because it comes from a penis, and penis is funny) and head slam. Ha ha ha ha, why is Robert Strong wandering the streets of King’s Landing?  That…makes zero sense.  Whatever, he arrives to escort Cersei to Myrcella’s funeral only to find the king has ordered 11 men to keep her from leaving so she remains safe.  …or he could have just ordered the same men to escort her.  I know Tommen isn’t the wisest of people, but I’m pretty sure Hodor could think this one through better.  Anyway, result is a tense scene of ‘will Cersei order Strong to kill 11 of her own soldiers?’  Of course not.  That’d be dumb.

-Jump to the sept where Jaime and Tommen watch over Myrcella.  They wonder about Trystane’s killers (a worthwhile inquiry, I too would wonder at the teleporting women who take a ship with a whip and spear and kill nobility who is undoubtedly under guard) with Tommen believing it was Cersei and Jaime believing she would never do such a thing.  Ahem.  Have we gotten to this point of the show now?  Are Jaime and Cersei supposed to be the good guys incapable of any more atrocities?  Are we supposed to be rooting for their love to win through to the end?  Anyway, they get into why Cersei isn’t present and Tommen reveals “they told me she wouldn’t be allowed into the sept.”  Excuse me?  Who told you?  The priests?  Why would they want to bar the freaking queen church?  At least they reveal Tommen recognizes his own weakness…more on this later.  High sparrow arrives and we get more weird dialogue.  Do you know why we place stones on the eyes?  Pretty sure this 30-40 some year-old knighted by your religion knows about its basic customs.  Jaime begins openly threatening Sparrow in…probably, actually the best scene of the season, confessing past sins.  Then, just as it gets good…ninja faith militant, who’ve been hiding throughout the room by the dozens this entire time.  Again, I know you have to end a scene and in this case need to calm things down a bit before they escalate too quickly, but you can’t just make up bullshit whenever you want the next scene to start.  Still, seriously questioning the writers about the High Sparrow.  It’s gotten now to the point where he’s openly threatening not just Cersei, Marg, and now Jaime, but the entire kingdom.  What I don’t understand is if the writers actually mean for him to be power-hungry and insane, or if they actually believe he has this ability.

-So we come to Tommen and Cersei finally talking and the focus of the scene is how Tommen feels guilty not coming to see her sooner and it’s just kinda…who has noticed or cared?  We’ve had an episode between when she returned with no sense of significant time passing.  Anyway, Tommen wants to become stronger, asking for his mother’s help, and I wonder now how long it will take for him to slaughter the faith and make himself be seen as a monster worse than Joffrey ever was, riling up the city and leading to his death.  I say, next episode he makes threats, the episode after that he attacks, resulting in the death of Marg and the high sparrow, pushing the Tyrells to ally with Dorne against the poor Lannisters while they deal with riots in the streets.  Say, episode 8 he dies.  Sound about right?  Ok, moving on.

-Hey look, Mereen.  Wonder how long unti…and there it is.  The joke was cute once.  Just the once.  And cute, not funny.  Stop.  Making.  Penis.  Jokes.  They’re bad.  Anyway, apparently nobody saw anyone burning any of the dozens, if not hundreds, of ships spread across miles of Mereen’s shoreline.  Convenient, in an in sort of way.  We run through a bit of important news for two lines and then, “What about the dragons?”  What about the dragons?  Oh, apparently they stopped eating and they need Tyrion to tell them it’s because they’re upset at being held captive.  Tyrion asks Missandei if they ever threatened her.  After confirming their intelligence and recognizing friend from foe, Tyrion takes this information that the dragons indeed recognize Missandei as friend and…goes to them himself.  Oh, and Varys tags along.  No reason in particular, I think Tyrion just feels more comfortable when he has someone around to make penis jokes about.  So off he goes, into the dragon’s lair to face the dangerous and formidable beasts...who have grown, despite not eating.  As have their chains, strangely.  After declaring himself friends with their mother, Tyrion removes a single pin which disassembles the chains completely (yes intelligence which may even surpass humans, yet the inability to figure out something my old cat would fiddle with just to screw with me).  Finally released from their bonds, the dragons stand tall and…turn around to slink bank into their lair.  “Hey Joe, congrats on making parole, what you gonna do with yourself?  Grab a bite to eat? I hear this prison food is awful.”  “Eh, nah, think I’ll go back to my cell and take a nap.”  Well Tyrion watches them go, then states to Varys to punch him in the face next time he has an idea like that, leaving me to wonder how many episodes it will take for the punchline of that joke to come.  Not that it’ll stop Tyrion from going through whatever idea that is (probably riding a dragon to save the day from…things).  Just for the laughs.

-Back to Arya, where she is once again beaten to a pulp in the middle of the street, and I can’t fathom how fundamentally off the mark this whole “I am no one” thing is.  For some reason the writers seem to take this as an almost literal name, like she is supposed have the identity of No One.  That…makes no sense.  That’s an oxymoron.  I hate making comparisons to the books by this point, but if you’re going to take lines directly from it at least try to have those lines make some sort of sense.  Her name isn’t No One.  She goes out on a mission she’s not going to tell people in the streets that her name is No One, she’s going to make up an alias which she needs to be able to flit in and out of flawlessly as needed.  But apparently this public beating and declaration of being No One, that “a girl has no name” (sigh) is enough to bring her to the next stage of her training.  This is such a blunt, directionless plot.  Speaking of…

-Hey look Winterfell.  And hey, it was six men after all.  I guess the last one just spontaneously combusted.  The dogs, though?  Who truly knows, they had to go, their world needed them.  And hey, look, a Karstark.  I knew other northern lords had to exist somewhere.  Nice of him to introduce himself, now shhh, the actual characters are speaking.  They decide Sansa probably is going to Jon, and Ramsay says he could attack the NW because Castle Black isn’t defended on the southern side.  Remember all the way back in the beginning, that thing I told you to remember?  Yeah, Castle Black IS defended on the southern side.  They have a wall, gate and everything.  It’s not much of one, but it’s definitely there.  You can’t take lines from the book and just plug them in without context when the show clearly flies in the face of such statements.  There’s an actual good debate where Roose discusses how stupid and suicidal Ramsay’s plans are, interrupted by Walda giving birth to a male.  Huh.  That seemed…kinda quick, but then the passage of time isn’t the best represented.  Then Roose, despite all his thin threats, declares that Ramsay will always be his first born…for seemingly no other reason than to make the sudden kinslaying that much more evil.  It’s just comical.  The death is so predictable and they feel the need to make him seem so evil every step of the way.  All the while Karstark just sorta looks on.  They don’t even give him a reaction shot.  Even the Dornish guards got a reaction shot.  He is literally blurred out into the background.  Such is how important this character is.  Ramsay is declared lord as Roose dies instantly from a stomach wound.  We then go to this minutes long scene of Ramsay meeting Walda and her child (walking fresh after giving birth) and taking her to the hounds and…Christ, we know what’s going to happen.  We get it, he’s evil.  This crap isn’t even shocking or uncomfortable anymore because they’ve been playing it up since last freaking season.  Somehow they made feeding a mother and her newborn child to dogs, alive, not uncomfortable.  Also, anyone notice how her screams just cut out after a quick shriek?  Would kinda figure she’d be at it awhile, but then I suppose the writers only think you survive beyond initial injuries if you’re a main character.

-Thus we jump to Sansa, Theon, Brienne and, “I saw her with a man, I don’t think he hurt her, she didn’t want to leave him, he didn’t want to leave her.”  Uhhh…

“You don’t know which way she went?”  Yes, Sansa, please call her out on her bullshit.  Pleasepleasepleaseplease…

“I spent three days looking for her, she disappeared.”  Come on, do it…

“How’d she look?”  Oh come on.  You kidding me?  How about, ‘how did you lose her?  You got close enough to figure out the details of the relationship with this man.’  But no, they came too close to calling out the BS of the scene and had to change the subject.  It’s nice how Brienne fails to mention who the man happened to be…or the fact that she freaking started a fight and killed him (supposedly), leaving Arya all by her lonesome.  Isn’t Brienne supposed to generally be thought of as a good guy, an honorable sort?  Others seem to treat her as such, and the writers do, but God damn is she full of it, and the only person up to calling her out on it, she straight up murders.  What a wench.  Bah, I digress.

“I should have gone with you while I had the chance.”  Or you could have stayed with Littlefinger.  He did completely give you that option.  But no, now you’re off adventuring with Brienne, going to…the Wall, I guess?  What’s the endgame here?  They’ll stay at Castle Black forever because…Ramsay won’t be able to touch them there?  Why wouldn’t he?  The Watch is sworn to take no part, Ramsay could do whatever he wanted if he proved they were holding his, by all rights legal, bride.  And Theon’s not gonna help, most the North would want his head on a platter for all the chaos he created.  But no worries, because Theon is…going home.  Because…uh…Jon would kill him…or maybe he wouldn’t, because the Night’s Watch forgives past crimes, but Theon doesn’t want to be forgiven because he recognizes his wrongs and how he’s more Stark than Greyjoy thus he’s going to…go back to Pyke…what the hell am I watching?

-Oh hey, Pyke.  Huh, been awhile.  Hey look, Balon is still an idiot and a dick.  So they lost everything on the mainland, along with all resources and manpower devoted there, and he just sorta shrugs and goes, ‘we’ll go again.’  Because hey, he won the war of five kings by nature of doing nothing, and “Yara” better shut her yap or he’ll just create another heir…even though all his sons have been dead or gone for almost 20 years.  Ok, so Balon’s supposed to be a stupid asshole.  Got it, you crammed it down our throat enough, can we just get on with the part where he dies?  The funny thing being…they do exactly that.  This is so stupid and predictable, nobody thinks Balon of all people is going to remain alive and everybody’s been waiting for this moment.  If you wanted to kill him off without doing anything more, why wait a season and a half for it?  This isn’t even bad on its own, this simply should have taken place during season freaking four, where you don’t have to reintroduce an entire semi-major character, complete with their motivations and personality, for the sole purpose of killing them.  It’s as comical as it is predictable.  But again, I digress.  Balon is walking across the bridge when, a mysterious man blocks his way.  Balon tell him to move for he is the king, dammit!  But no, for the hooded man reveals himself to be…nobody we’ve ever heard of in the show.  This turns out to be one of the most hilarious cases of exposition I have ever heard of, as Euron is introduced and set up as a major player with much renown and credit to his name within one scene.  In a way, I have to hand it to the writers.  They actually recognized the fact that they had yet to even mention Euron on the show up to this point.  On the flipside, I can only imagine the writing for this scene.  They think up this great moment when Euron finally reveals himself to kill his despicable brother and take his place for a dreaded new age for the Ironborn…only to realize at the last possible second that they hadn’t set him up whatsoever.  Thus is Euron introduced, Balon is killed, and we get a short funeral scene where Yara swears vengeance upon the unknown murderer (actually self defense, funny enough) over the…salt throne…?  Ok, random change for the sake of change.  And it’s announced there’ll be a kingsmoot to elect a new leader.  And have to say, I’m rather impressed.  They managed to reintroduce Balon, Introduce Euron, develop him, kill Balon, have his funeral, and introduce the idea of a kingsmoot while promising vengeance for Balon, all in the span of six minutes.  But wait, somebody cut to Margaery quick!  Something new and important may have happened since we last saw her held captive in her cell!

-Back to the Wall we go, where Mel is depressed and for some reason Davos is still around…I don’t get it, is he part of the NW now?  Does he have troops?  Authority?  What are he and Mel doing there?  So Davos brings up the idea of resurrecting Jon…  I don’t…what???  Why wouldn’t he bring this idea up about Stannis?  Or Shireen?  Or his son??  Why does he even care about Jon?  What reason would he even have to possibly think Melisandre has any ability to resurrect the dead when she herself has not tried and he does not subscribe to her religion?  Why is he suddenly a believer?  He spends a minute or so arguing with Mel about doing it for…drama, I guess, before she gives in and tries it.  And the scene which follows…I’m rolling just thinking about it.  Because I’m pretty sure they just got a bunch of people in a room, stripped Kit, threw some fake blood on him, told him to hold still, then got Carice stoned and told her to resurrect him while they filmed it all.  It’s just…so…dumb.  First, the resurrection ritual is supposed to be like…last rights, it’s a funeral of sorts, and that’s how it was even portrayed on the show originally.  For Thoros, for whatever reason, the words he spoke and the ritual he performed…it all just happened to work.  Mel should know these words and this ritual.  They’re common.  Even an unbeliever like Thoros did it more times than he could count.  But no, Mel makes up some ritual with a bunch of wordless gibberish and sacrificing…hair…?  And the scene and ritual just keeps going on and on…and on…and on…  And nothing happens.  Really.  You’re going to waste six minutes of gibberish for him not to wake up.  Sure, I believe it.  Slow pan over body, Ghost chillaxing, and jump scare wakeup.  Never have I seen such a lackluster resurrection.  I thought the one in Mass Effect 2 was bad, but damn did this take it.  It’s not just that it’s predictable, everyone knows it’ll happen in the books too, and it’s not just that it taking these long, slow scenes to do it, but it’s how full of nonsense these scenes are, and how they treat the viewer like they’re stupid, teasing those who know better with will they or won’t they when there’s no suspension of belief left among the wide majority.

It's difficult to blame this episode for all that happened because when I think of ways to make it better I keep going back to changing the lead-up in previous episodes.  Balon should’ve been offed while he was still somewhat relevant in season 4 and Euron should have been teased since season 2 at least.  Or the fallout at the Wall should have happened last episode so it didn’t all feel like timed contrivance just waiting for the next episode to start.  But there are ways aspects here could be made obviously better.  Much of it has to do with dialogue.  The writing here is just awful, with bad jokes that have been played into the ground.  As well, why don’t they know how to end a scene?  Like Bran, perhaps he isn’t pulled out in fear of drowning, but his inexperience leads to times getting mixed up in his head and the pleasant memory becomes nightmarish as he watches family waste away before his eyes.  Or the High Sparrow.  Really, the High Sparrow trading threats of power with the freaking kingsguard, who needs protection from dozens of faith militant?  How about…he simply doesn’t stoop to that level, and Jaime can’t bring himself to kill an unarmed man over his daughter’s body.  Or hell, the resurrection.  Let’s get a funeral together.  Have Davos bring out Mel as the closest thing to a priest around to say something, not just for Jon, but for all those they lost at Winterfell.  Have her give Jon her words as a matter of ceremony, and in all the loss, he awakens.  It blows my mind how easy it would be to make so many of these same plots so much better

[Le Cygne]

6 minutes ago, Morna The Maid said:

Instead he has to shut up and stay silent while these frauds begin to steal his legacy next week. I'm sure he's done his level best to not be spoiled but he has know thaat the ToJ is next week. God I hope he is able to distance himself.  I mean, if we find out either that Jon Snow, the show's HERO, was the product of a rape (JUST LIKE RAMSEY WAS, OH BOY THE BOTB THEY HAVE IN COMMON!! THEY'RE EQUAL!) or that Robert's Rebellion was the fault of Robert The Slut (and not either a romance between the two but romance what that?? All we know is rape) or Rhaegar's fault...the Starks even have to be demonized in the past...

There is no romance on this show. I'm sure they'll screw up this one, too. They wouldn't know romance if it bit them on the nose. It's not like women have desires and feel love for men or anything, my goodness, did we think they mattered or something?

And there's no sign of Rhaegar, how can you tell Lyanna's story without Rhaegar. And they aren't even trying, her story is now about Hodor. And for some reason, she has blonde streaks in her hair. They can't even be bothered to get her hair color right.

[Le Cygne]

Oh, and no one can touch them at the Wall. Bwhahahahaha... Like no one touched Jon, stabbing him in the gut. And no one touched Gilly, almost raping her, and threatening to do it again...

The Wall is Rape Central on the show, so send the rape victim there to not be touched by the rapist, even though it's filled with rapists, and the LC's best friend's girl had to leave to avoid being raped.

Righto...

[sweetsunray]

41 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Oh, and no one can touch them at the Wall. Bwhahahahaha... Like no one touched Jon, stabbing him in the gut. And no one touched Gilly, almost raping her, and threatening to do it again...

The Wall is Rape Central on the show, so send the rape victim there to not be touched by the rapist, even though it's filled with rapists, and the LC's best friend's girl had to leave to avoid being raped.

Righto...

Apparently Rape Central is very selective about who they want to rape - only Gilly really - because for some reason they never even tried and cared to rape complete defenseless Mel, while Rover is locked in with Davos in another room. I'm guessing this rape selectiveness will also apply to Fansa.

ETA: Defenseless, because there are no Queen's Men who are devotees to Mel, no Wun Wun bodyguards at show-CB, only Davos... just one man and he's locked away in another room. And while Rover saved Gilly last time, he's also locked in that same other room with Davos.

[Ser Gareth]

14 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Apparently Rape Central is very selective about who they want to rape - only Gilly really - because for some reason they never even tried and cared to rape complete defenseless Mel, while Rover is locked in with Davos in another room. I'm guessing this rape selectiveness will also apply to Fansa.

I always found that odd from the book too.  Especially as there are other clear attempted rapes at the wall once the Wildings pass.  I can only put it down to people being scared of her.

[Ser Gareth]

My biggest rant from this episode is that yes, they're going to introduce that clusterfuck of a story from the books involving Euron.  Utterly stupid and ruinous in the books and no doubt will be similar in the show.  On the plus side it seems they are at least going to do it with Asha rather than the ridiculous Victorian.  Hopefully they'll dispense of Monkey's jumping into the sea and all the other cartoon pirate characters that GRRM introduced and it will be a short journey to Meereen.

[Wayward Sand Star]

21 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

What else? Can't remember, but I'm sure it was equally underwhelming and boring. AH, the resurrection! How could I leave that ou... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. What was I saying? That's right, Jonny Snowflake's resurrection. UNDERWHELMING to a ridiculous degree, and boring, so very boring. That's gotta be some sort of achievement, I'm sure. To turn the most hyped and expected scene EVAH into a snoozefest of this magnitude. 

See, I was wondering how such talentless fuckups get hired as writing staff, but evidently they're not talentless.

20 hours ago, Sir Loin Steak said:

Horrible thought, it's all set up for the following:

HODOR: Hodor.

BRAN: Whatcha talkin bout Willis?

 

At which point they're going to owe me a new tv.

You kill me dead. I was sure they only hired writers who previously worked on Dude, Where's My Car? You have proven me wrong: they like their sitcoms too.

[ArabellaVidal]

7 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

My biggest rant from this episode is that yes, they're going to introduce that clusterfuck of a story from the books involving Euron.  Utterly stupid and ruinous in the books and no doubt will be similar in the show.  On the plus side it seems they are at least going to do it with Asha rather than the ridiculous Victorian.  Hopefully they'll dispense of Monkey's jumping into the sea and all the other cartoon pirate characters that GRRM introduced and it will be a short journey to Meereen.

It will. Very short with a brothel stop on the way.

I can't wait to find out if little Sam is still a babe in arms. I mean Walda gave birth in the meantime.

If the Robert Strong plot has to be stupid, then why the eff doesn't he just disguise himself and murder the megalomaniacal High Sparrow. It would resolve the stupidity nicely.

 

[Neds Secret]

56 minutes ago, b09boy said:

Another mediocre episode, another heap of praise from critics.  To be fair it was a better episode than last week, but we are comparing turds at the point.

 

-Open with Bran and, hey look they recast another character with someone who looks completely different.  I know this is a nitpick, but couldn’t they even have added a beard to this guy?  Hell, who’s cutting all these people’s hair?  Whatever, we go to Winterfell to see Ned and Benjen fighting under Rodrick, and hey there’s Lyanna.  It’s not the scene of the past I’d have chosen, and the dialogue is kinda…blech (‘You were happy once,’ ‘stop riding your horse 20 feet away from us, we’re sparring!’)  but it does set the stage for Bran exploring these flashbacks…if that’s all they were going to do for now.  No, they decide to introduce some plot with Hodor (Wylis, changed from Walder for some reason).  Why?  Don’t we have enough plots to juggle without creating one about the downfall of freaking Hodor, of all people?  At least we see they actually spent more than pocket change for Leaf’s makeup effects this season, but what’s this about drowning if you stay under too long?  The guy plugged into a tree warning about getting lost in past?  I know they need the scene to end somehow, but good God this dialogue.  Well whatever, Bran goes out to see Meera (why does this cave have a door suddenly?) who’s still being pouty.  Talk about a War coming, with generic disdainful remark followed by teleporting character with thoughtful line about how Bran needs Meera…for…something.  God, this writing is lazy.  It’s like they went directly to tvtropes and copied off the dialogue examples.

 

-Next we come to the Wall and it’s finally time for a confrontation, because episode 1 is finally over and they can’t reasonably plug in anymore filler.  Thorne is still treating with Davos, and not his brothers for some reason, and Davos is getting involved in all this because…uh…  Anyway, we get the trailer bait line (which is more than a little out of place among a bunch of hardened NW without Mel or anyone of the like around) and Thorne nods for the door to be broken down.  It’s a tense scene, waiting, wondering, not knowing how many times they’ll swing the ax at the door before the wildlings arrive just in the nick of time.  Unfortunately, I lost the bet.  Put my money on 3 or ‘they just manage to get the door down,’ but I should’ve known better.  That latter would require they budget for an actual fight where Ghost might actually do something and the former doesn’t offer nearly enough tense filler.  Nah, the actual answer is 14.  So the wildling arrive at the…gate…hmm, we’ll just tuck this one away.  Anyway, wildlings come to save the day, and somehow none of the dozens of guys positioned around with bows let fly.  Well, except for the one comic relief guy so we could see Wun Wun smash, but otherwise it’s rather bloodless.  Huh.  Very cordial of everyone.  Thorne goes on about wildlings, and for some reason all I can hear is Vegeta stating, “you see, you’re not dealing with the average saiyan any longer…”  Olly breaks the tensions with stupid and he and Thorne (and nobody else) are thrown into the cells so Jon can kill them/forgive them of their sins later.  Tormund is taken to look at Jon and FINALLY someone wants to burn the freaking body, as we scroll to another long shot to confirm once again, for the last freaking time, YES already!  Jon is dead, stop asking!

 

-Off we go to King’s Landing, where some nobody is talking in the streets about how he and Cersei had a moment during her walk of shame.  Riveting.  He goes to take a piss, when out of nowhere comes Robert Strong.  Cue piss joke (because it comes from a penis, and penis is funny) and head slam. Ha ha ha ha, why is Robert Strong wandering the streets of King’s Landing?  That…makes zero sense.  Whatever, he arrives to escort Cersei to Myrcella’s funeral only to find the king has ordered 11 men to keep her from leaving so she remains safe.  …or he could have just ordered the same men to escort her.  I know Tommen isn’t the wisest of people, but I’m pretty sure Hodor could think this one through better.  Anyway, result is a tense scene of ‘will Cersei order Strong to kill 11 of her own soldiers?’  Of course not.  That’d be dumb.

 

-Jump to the sept where Jaime and Tommen watch over Myrcella.  They wonder about Trystane’s killers (a worthwhile inquiry, I too would wonder at the teleporting women who take a ship with a whip and spear and kill nobility who is undoubtedly under guard) with Tommen believing it was Cersei and Jaime believing she would never do such a thing.  Ahem.  Have we gotten to this point of the show now?  Are Jaime and Cersei supposed to be the good guys incapable of any more atrocities?  Are we supposed to be rooting for their love to win through to the end?  Anyway, they get into why Cersei isn’t present and Tommen reveals “they told me she wouldn’t be allowed into the sept.”  Excuse me?  Who told you?  The priests?  Why would they want to bar the freaking queen church?  At least they reveal Tommen recognizes his own weakness…more on this later.  High sparrow arrives and we get more weird dialogue.  Do you know why we place stones on the eyes?  Pretty sure this 30-40 some year-old knighted by your religion knows about its basic customs.  Jaime begins openly threatening Sparrow in…probably, actually the best scene of the season, confessing past sins.  Then, just as it gets good…ninja faith militant, who’ve been hiding throughout the room by the dozens this entire time.  Again, I know you have to end a scene and in this case need to calm things down a bit before they escalate too quickly, but you can’t just make up bullshit whenever you want the next scene to start.  Still, seriously questioning the writers about the High Sparrow.  It’s gotten now to the point where he’s openly threatening not just Cersei, Marg, and now Jaime, but the entire kingdom.  What I don’t understand is if the writers actually mean for him to be power-hungry and insane, or if they actually believe he has this ability.

 

-So we come to Tommen and Cersei finally talking and the focus of the scene is how Tommen feels guilty not coming to see her sooner and it’s just kinda…who has noticed or cared?  We’ve had an episode between when she returned with no sense of significant time passing.  Anyway, Tommen wants to become stronger, asking for his mother’s help, and I wonder now how long it will take for him to slaughter the faith and make himself be seen as a monster worse than Joffrey ever was, riling up the city and leading to his death.  I say, next episode he makes threats, the episode after that he attacks, resulting in the death of Marg and the high sparrow, pushing the Tyrells to ally with Dorne against the poor Lannisters while they deal with riots in the streets.  Say, episode 8 he dies.  Sound about right?  Ok, moving on.

 

-Hey look, Mereen.  Wonder how long unti…and there it is.  The joke was cute once.  Just the once.  And cute, not funny.  Stop.  Making.  Penis.  Jokes.  They’re bad.  Anyway, apparently nobody saw anyone burning any of the dozens, if not hundreds, of ships spread across miles of Mereen’s shoreline.  Convenient, in an in sort of way.  We run through a bit of important news for two lines and then, “What about the dragons?”  What about the dragons?  Oh, apparently they stopped eating and they need Tyrion to tell them it’s because they’re upset at being held captive.  Tyrion asks Missandei if they ever threatened her.  After confirming their intelligence and recognizing friend from foe, Tyrion takes this information that the dragons indeed recognize Missandei as friend and…goes to them himself.  Oh, and Varys tags along.  No reason in particular, I think Tyrion just feels more comfortable when he has someone around to make penis jokes about.  So off he goes, into the dragon’s lair to face the dangerous and formidable beasts...who have grown, despite not eating.  As have their chains, strangely.  After declaring himself friends with their mother, Tyrion removes a single pin which disassembles the chains completely (yes intelligence which may even surpass humans, yet the inability to figure out something my old cat would fiddle with just to screw with me).  Finally released from their bonds, the dragons stand tall and…turn around to slink bank into their lair.  “Hey Joe, congrats on making parole, what you gonna do with yourself?  Grab a bite to eat? I hear this prison food is awful.”  “Eh, nah, think I’ll go back to my cell and take a nap.”  Well Tyrion watches them go, then states to Varys to punch him in the face next time he has an idea like that, leaving me to wonder how many episodes it will take for the punchline of that joke to come.  Not that it’ll stop Tyrion from going through whatever idea that is (probably riding a dragon to save the day from…things).  Just for the laughs.

 

-Back to Arya, where she is once again beaten to a pulp in the middle of the street, and I can’t fathom how fundamentally off the mark this whole “I am no one” thing is.  For some reason the writers seem to take this as an almost literal name, like she is supposed have the identity of No One.  That…makes no sense.  That’s an oxymoron.  I hate making comparisons to the books by this point, but if you’re going to take lines directly from it at least try to have those lines make some sort of sense.  Her name isn’t No One.  She goes out on a mission she’s not going to tell people in the streets that her name is No One, she’s going to make up an alias which she needs to be able to flit in and out of flawlessly as needed.  But apparently this public beating and declaration of being No One, that “a girl has no name” (sigh) is enough to bring her to the next stage of her training.  This is such a blunt, directionless plot.  Speaking of…

 

-Hey look Winterfell.  And hey, it was six men after all.  I guess the last one just spontaneously combusted.  The dogs, though?  Who truly knows, they had to go, their world needed them.  And hey, look, a Karstark.  I knew other northern lords had to exist somewhere.  Nice of him to introduce himself, now shhh, the actual characters are speaking.  They decide Sansa probably is going to Jon, and Ramsay says he could attack the NW because Castle Black isn’t defended on the southern side.  Remember all the way back in the beginning, that thing I told you to remember?  Yeah, Castle Black IS defended on the southern side.  They have a wall, gate and everything.  It’s not much of one, but it’s definitely there.  You can’t take lines from the book and just plug them in without context when the show clearly flies in the face of such statements.  There’s an actual good debate where Roose discusses how stupid and suicidal Ramsay’s plans are, interrupted by Walda giving birth to a male.  Huh.  That seemed…kinda quick, but then the passage of time isn’t the best represented.  Then Roose, despite all his thin threats, declares that Ramsay will always be his first born…for seemingly no other reason than to make the sudden kinslaying that much more evil.  It’s just comical.  The death is so predictable and they feel the need to make him seem so evil every step of the way.  All the while Karstark just sorta looks on.  They don’t even give him a reaction shot.  Even the Dornish guards got a reaction shot.  He is literally blurred out into the background.  Such is how important this character is.  Ramsay is declared lord as Roose dies instantly from a stomach wound.  We then go to this minutes long scene of Ramsay meeting Walda and her child (walking fresh after giving birth) and taking her to the hounds and…Christ, we know what’s going to happen.  We get it, he’s evil.  This crap isn’t even shocking or uncomfortable anymore because they’ve been playing it up since last freaking season.  Somehow they made feeding a mother and her newborn child to dogs, alive, not uncomfortable.  Also, anyone notice how her screams just cut out after a quick shriek?  Would kinda figure she’d be at it awhile, but then I suppose the writers only think you survive beyond initial injuries if you’re a main character.

 

-Thus we jump to Sansa, Theon, Brienne and, “I saw her with a man, I don’t think he hurt her, she didn’t want to leave him, he didn’t want to leave her.”  Uhhh…

 

“You don’t know which way she went?”  Yes, Sansa, please call her out on her bullshit.  Pleasepleasepleaseplease…

 

“I spent three days looking for her, she disappeared.”  Come on, do it…

 

“How’d she look?”  Oh come on.  You kidding me?  How about, ‘how did you lose her?  You got close enough to figure out the details of the relationship with this man.’  But no, they came too close to calling out the BS of the scene and had to change the subject.  It’s nice how Brienne fails to mention who the man happened to be…or the fact that she freaking started a fight and killed him (supposedly), leaving Arya all by her lonesome.  Isn’t Brienne supposed to generally be thought of as a good guy, an honorable sort?  Others seem to treat her as such, and the writers do, but God damn is she full of it, and the only person up to calling her out on it, she straight up murders.  What a wench.  Bah, I digress.

 

“I should have gone with you while I had the chance.”  Or you could have stayed with Littlefinger.  He did completely give you that option.  But no, now you’re off adventuring with Brienne, going to…the Wall, I guess?  What’s the endgame here?  They’ll stay at Castle Black forever because…Ramsay won’t be able to touch them there?  Why wouldn’t he?  The Watch is sworn to take no part, Ramsay could do whatever he wanted if he proved they were holding his, by all rights legal, bride.  And Theon’s not gonna help, most the North would want his head on a platter for all the chaos he created.  But no worries, because Theon is…going home.  Because…uh…Jon would kill him…or maybe he wouldn’t, because the Night’s Watch forgives past crimes, but Theon doesn’t want to be forgiven because he recognizes his wrongs and how he’s more Stark than Greyjoy thus he’s going to…go back to Pyke…what the hell am I watching?

 

-Oh hey, Pyke.  Huh, been awhile.  Hey look, Balon is still an idiot and a dick.  So they lost everything on the mainland, along with all resources and manpower devoted there, and he just sorta shrugs and goes, ‘we’ll go again.’  Because hey, he won the war of five kings by nature of doing nothing, and “Yara” better shut her yap or he’ll just create another heir…even though all his sons have been dead or gone for almost 20 years.  Ok, so Balon’s supposed to be a stupid asshole.  Got it, you crammed it down our throat enough, can we just get on with the part where he dies?  The funny thing being…they do exactly that.  This is so stupid and predictable, nobody thinks Balon of all people is going to remain alive and everybody’s been waiting for this moment.  If you wanted to kill him off without doing anything more, why wait a season and a half for it?  This isn’t even bad on its own, this simply should have taken place during season freaking four, where you don’t have to reintroduce an entire semi-major character, complete with their motivations and personality, for the sole purpose of killing them.  It’s as comical as it is predictable.  But again, I digress.  Balon is walking across the bridge when, a mysterious man blocks his way.  Balon tell him to move for he is the king, dammit!  But no, for the hooded man reveals himself to be…nobody we’ve ever heard of in the show.  This turns out to be one of the most hilarious cases of exposition I have ever heard of, as Euron is introduced and set up as a major player with much renown and credit to his name within one scene.  In a way, I have to hand it to the writers.  They actually recognized the fact that they had yet to even mention Euron on the show up to this point.  On the flipside, I can only imagine the writing for this scene.  They think up this great moment when Euron finally reveals himself to kill his despicable brother and take his place for a dreaded new age for the Ironborn…only to realize at the last possible second that they hadn’t set him up whatsoever.  Thus is Euron introduced, Balon is killed, and we get a short funeral scene where Yara swears vengeance upon the unknown murderer (actually self defense, funny enough) over the…salt throne…?  Ok, random change for the sake of change.  And it’s announced there’ll be a kingsmoot to elect a new leader.  And have to say, I’m rather impressed.  They managed to reintroduce Balon, Introduce Euron, develop him, kill Balon, have his funeral, and introduce the idea of a kingsmoot while promising vengeance for Balon, all in the span of six minutes.  But wait, somebody cut to Margaery quick!  Something new and important may have happened since we last saw her held captive in her cell!

 

-Back to the Wall we go, where Mel is depressed and for some reason Davos is still around…I don’t get it, is he part of the NW now?  Does he have troops?  Authority?  What are he and Mel doing there?  So Davos brings up the idea of resurrecting Jon…  I don’t…what???  Why wouldn’t he bring this idea up about Stannis?  Or Shireen?  Or his son??  Why does he even care about Jon?  What reason would he even have to possibly think Melisandre has any ability to resurrect the dead when she herself has not tried and he does not subscribe to her religion?  Why is he suddenly a believer?  He spends a minute or so arguing with Mel about doing it for…drama, I guess, before she gives in and tries it.  And the scene which follows…I’m rolling just thinking about it.  Because I’m pretty sure they just got a bunch of people in a room, stripped Kit, threw some fake blood on him, told him to hold still, then got Carice stoned and told her to resurrect him while they filmed it all.  It’s just…so…dumb.  First, the resurrection ritual is supposed to be like…last rights, it’s a funeral of sorts, and that’s how it was even portrayed on the show originally.  For Thoros, for whatever reason, the words he spoke and the ritual he performed…it all just happened to work.  Mel should know these words and this ritual.  They’re common.  Even an unbeliever like Thoros did it more times than he could count.  But no, Mel makes up some ritual with a bunch of wordless gibberish and sacrificing…hair…?  And the scene and ritual just keeps going on and on…and on…and on…  And nothing happens.  Really.  You’re going to waste six minutes of gibberish for him not to wake up.  Sure, I believe it.  Slow pan over body, Ghost chillaxing, and jump scare wakeup.  Never have I seen such a lackluster resurrection.  I thought the one in Mass Effect 2 was bad, but damn did this take it.  It’s not just that it’s predictable, everyone knows it’ll happen in the books too, and it’s not just that it taking these long, slow scenes to do it, but it’s how full of nonsense these scenes are, and how they treat the viewer like they’re stupid, teasing those who know better with will they or won’t they when there’s no suspension of belief left among the wide majority.

 

It's difficult to blame this episode for all that happened because when I think of ways to make it better I keep going back to changing the lead-up in previous episodes.  Balon should’ve been offed while he was still somewhat relevant in season 4 and Euron should have been teased since season 2 at least.  Or the fallout at the Wall should have happened last episode so it didn’t all feel like timed contrivance just waiting for the next episode to start.  But there are ways aspects here could be made obviously better.  Much of it has to do with dialogue.  The writing here is just awful, with bad jokes that have been played into the ground.  As well, why don’t they know how to end a scene?  Like Bran, perhaps he isn’t pulled out in fear of drowning, but his inexperience leads to times getting mixed up in his head and the pleasant memory becomes nightmarish as he watches family waste away before his eyes.  Or the High Sparrow.  Really, the High Sparrow trading threats of power with the freaking kingsguard, who needs protection from dozens of faith militant?  How about…he simply doesn’t stoop to that level, and Jaime can’t bring himself to kill an unarmed man over his daughter’s body.  Or hell, the resurrection.  Let’s get a funeral together.  Have Davos bring out Mel as the closest thing to a priest around to say something, not just for Jon, but for all those they lost at Winterfell.  Have her give Jon her words as a matter of ceremony, and in all the loss, he awakens.  It blows my mind how easy it would be to make so many of these same plots so much better

 

That was really nice work, extremely well written and very accurate.

[Ser Gareth]

1 minute ago, ArabellaVidal said:

It will. Very short with a brothel stop on the way.

I can't wait to find out if little Sam is still a babe in arms. I mean Walda gave birth in the meantime.

If the Robert Strong plot has to be stupid, then why the eff doesn't he just disguise himself and murder the megalomaniacal High Sparrow. It would resolve the stupidity nicely.

 

I despise Robert Strong, both in the books and the TV show.  The whole concept is dumb as a stump.

[ArabellaVidal]

1 hour ago, b09boy said:

Another mediocre episode, another heap of praise from critics.  To be fair it was a better episode than last week, but we are comparing turds at the point.

 

Love this whole post.

[Ser Quork]

13 hours ago, Sir Loin Steak said:

He's long past Mary Sue, at this point he's crossed the event horizon into Black Hole Sue territory http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlackHoleSue

Ha! That's exactly right.

12 hours ago, TheCasualObserver said:

Forget about Jon, let's talk about Ramsay.

In short order, Ramsay has married Sansa Stark (alienating him from the Crown and the very source of legitimization which made him a Bolton), abused her (alienating him from those who would look to protect "The Ned's girl") and lost her (alienating those few who would side with him for no better reason than because he is married to a Stark. ) Sansa running away from him is also a huge blow to his personal prestige - in a society as misogynistic as Westeros, not being able to control your wife, who is your property by law, is an absolute humiliation. Accusations of cuckoldry are sure to fly, and it serves as proof that he has no control over his own household, so why would he presume to control the North? Obviously I don't think like this... but the Northern lords absolutely should. When word gets out, Ramsay is about to become the laughing stock of every tavern in the north.

But not content with that litany of mistakes, Ramsay has now murdered Walda, wrecking any possible alliance with the Freys, and worse, has murdered his father and brother, becoming usurper and kinslayer both. 

My question is this - what sort of person, be they steadfast Stark loyalist or cruel and treacherous social climber (like Arnolf Karstark in the books) would think that Ramsay is the "safe bet"? He has no support from the crown, no allies, no wife and murders his own family - one of the few social taboos that can rival violating guest rights. 

We know that there will be a big battle at the end of the season, but with Jon revived and no doubt soon on the war path, who in their right mind would pick Ramsay in that match up? What does he bring to the table? He has found himself in a far worse position than Robb Stark was and yet will at least live until the end of the season. If you really want to create a thematic bridge with the red wedding (Roose stabbing Robb/Ramsay stabbing Roose) then finish Ramsay in exactly the same way. No one has any reason to follow him and if they do they are doing so because they are "the villains" and this has unambiguously become a comic book.

All excellent points

Another point - since Batfinger told Cersei that Sansa and Ramsay are married, why didn't she (at that point) get Tommen to revoke Ramsay's legitimisation?  Too logical, that's why.  Pfft.

 

2 hours ago, HairGrowsBack said:

Oh, remember when this was supposed to be THE moment, when Larry was finally going to turn on Carol, because the High Grandpa would tell him about Lancel ? 

We are such sweet summerchildren.

1 hour ago, Morna The Maid said:

Nah, he's not saying that "Bran 'saw' Jon die through the Weirwood Net"  and that GRRM has told him what happens to Bran! He's saying 'I, Isaac, saw Jon Snow die on the show", and he's saying merely that Jon dying on the show was no surprise to him when he watched, since it happened in the book.

Really, stop reading into things. Do you seriously think that George has told anybody on this planet (other than D/D, ironically, and how he must now HATE that decision) the fate of each character? Or maybe George hasn't even told them everything. I hope not. And even if George told D/D everything, if they punish people for reading the books, do you think they would share with the *actors* what GRRM  has in store for their characters? When they so clearly have a much superior fate for them *cough*. Don't worry, we're safe.

 

I think that misunderstands what the poster was saying, which is that Isaac has confessed to reading the books so the poster is concerned that D&D will kill off Bran early.  We fear for actors who are acknowledged book fans after what happened to Ian McElhinney.  He admitted in an interview that he queried what was happening to Barristan as he knew Book!Barristan had great stuff to do in TWOW.  D&D admitted in an interview that a book reader actor had queried his fate and that made them want to kill him off sooner - they were very proud of their pettiness.

[ArabellaVidal]

My hubs watched the episode last night and he is generally very fond of the show.

He predicted every single 'shock' and was extremely underwhelmed by the resurrection. That's how crappy this season is. People saying that book readers are taking their anger at GRRM out on the show are really not even trying a better defence than that.

While re-watching the Euron scene last night it occurred to me that maybe Balon slashed him in the eye when falling and maybe we would actually see him look like Euron. But nope, just a slash across the cheek.

Also, why does Arthur Dayne look like a wimpy teenager? This is just a nitpick compared to the utter stupidity of the two swords swinging like windmills and leaving his guts open for an easy penetration. How exactly did this dude become a KG? Even the lumbering Gregor had technique. Do the Dornish have absolutely no fighting abilities other than being stylish or Snake-fuing?

[sweetsunray]

1 hour ago, ArabellaVidal said:

People saying that book readers are taking their anger at GRRM out on the show are really not even trying a better defence than that.

Our criticism stands on its own. I've seen people here criticise the show and also express their anger at GRRM over not yet having tWoW out or what they did not like about the books. The criticism is that this cannot be called a reasonably good adaptation anymore - too much has been altered with significant consequences for complete plot arcs that do not improve in any way to the books, even if that plot arc was weak in the books to begin with. That is a valid critique since D&D lured viewers to the show by calling it an adaptation. It's false advertizing basically. They relied on the book fans to spread the word and have the number of show viewers grow. Now that their audience is big enough they completely went of the tracks and ceased to adapt alltogether, exept perhaps a minor scene here or there. The other critcism is that as a stand alone product it is rife with illogic and senseless plot, retconning and Sues, overuses the same tropes and is predictable despite the most ass-pull attempts to shock they insert. And the last criticism is that as a stand alone product the majority of characters have stopped growing and regress or are dumbed down to be a prop for another Sue character. The show has started to ignore its own featured character growth, and are doing repeats of similar main plot goal with other characters that didn't die yet.

Personally I do not mind that the series is not finished yet by GRRM, or that tWoW is not yet out. I'd love the news of the son of kong being dead, but I have no gripe with GRRM over it. I've waited close to 30 years for another series to be finished in which 6 books were written over a period of 40 years. I'm not bothered by the time sprawl, as long as the writing isn't a rushed barely edited first draft writing where conflicts turn out to amount to just High School petty snarking and characters regressing back to their first appearance and erasing their growth. But that is not something I fear George will end up submitting for publishing.

[ArabellaVidal]

31 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Our criticism stands on its own. I've seen people here criticise the show and also express their anger at GRRM over not yet having tWoW out or what they did not like about the books. The criticism is that this cannot be called a reasonably good adaptation anymore - too much has been altered with significant consequences for complete plot arcs that do not improve in any way to the books, even if that plot arc was weak in the books to begin with. That is a valid critique since D&D lured viewers to the show by calling it an adaptation. They relied on the book fans to spread the word and have the number of show viewers grow. Now that their audience is big enough they completely went of the tracks and ceased to adapt alltogether, exept perhaps a minor scene here or there. The other critcism is that as a stand alone product it is rife with illogic and senseless plot, retconning and Sues, overuses the same tropes and is predictable despite the most ass-pull attempts to shock they insert. And the last criticism is that as a stand alone product the majority of characters have stopped growing and regress or are dumbed down to be a prop for another Sue character. The show has started to ignore its own featured character growth, and are doing repeats of similar main plot goal with other characters that didn't die yet.

Personally I do not mind that the series is not finished yet by GRRM, or that tWoW is not yet out. I'd love the news of the son of kong being dead, but I have no gripe with GRRM over it. I've waited close to 30 years for another series to be finished in which 6 books were written over a period of 40 years. I'm not bothered by the time sprawl, as long as the writing isn't a rushed barely edited first draft writing where conflicts turn out to amount to just High School petty snarking and characters regressing back to their first appearance and erasing their growth. But that is not something I fear George will end up submitting for publishing.

Everything that you said, Yep.