[Book Spoilers All] Bran’s Growing Powers in S6 Based upon the Reread

[Lady of Butterflies]

4 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I have not seen the scene in which 

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bran hodor and Meera run in a tunnel

Do you  have a link?

 

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Not meer and Hodor......oh no

A gif from the video.

https://45.media.tumblr.com/ed030d468e4f47d82155976df0397784/tumblr_o5hspg8gMC1ugs2wro1_500.gif

[Meera of Tarth]

Another I was not aware , that one of Meera inside the cave. any links would be ideal.

[Meera of Tarth]

1 minute ago, Lady of Butterflies said:

A gif from the video.

https://45.media.tumblr.com/ed030d468e4f47d82155976df0397784/tumblr_o5hspg8gMC1ugs2wro1_500.gif

Thanks!!!!!!!

oh I don't know if I want to know everything about it.....

[Lady of Butterflies]

3 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

My personal theory is that 

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bran's ego gonna make him become a litlle evil. By evil I mean frustrated and maybe doing something wrong, or being lead to something dark because of BR (the theory that BR is not a good guy). There are indications for that in his last chapter too, which is a bit dark.

However, I always thought Meera would fight for him. There are indications not meera for him, but in general, her not being ok with the whole situation

 

I do not think Bran is going on the villain route (at least that's what I think after seeing several interviews with Isaac about Season 6). Bran seems to be well aware of his role in the story. However, I think he will do something wrong, believing be right, but that will have serious consequences.

[Lady of Butterflies]

2 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Thanks!!!!!!!

oh I don't know if I want to know everything about it.....

My theory (read only if you want).

Spoiler

The Night's King and wights will invade the cave. Bran, Hodor and Meera, with the help of Leaf will escape through the network of tunnels. And then we'll see Bran, on a horse, in south of the wall, at the end of the season.

 

[The Arthur Smith]

But what kind of act? What deed that will have serious consequences or enough to make Bran villainous?

Unless

Spoiler

It's Bran revealing the truth about the TOJ to Jon via through the heartree that will have consequences. I know, crazy idea. But i can't help maybe this will make Jon darker and ambitious now that he learned he's a Targ and the "Prince that was Promise".

 I thought about this ever since i watched this breakdown about the teaser, which i believe it's the most informative analysis i seen.

GRMM did say that Jon will learn about his parentage.

 

 

[Meera of Tarth]

6 minutes ago, The Arthur Smith said:

But what kind of act? What deed that will have serious consequences or enough to make Bran villainous?

Unless

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It's Bran revealing the truth about the TOJ to Jon via through the heartree that will have consequences. I know, crazy idea. But i can't help maybe this will make Jon darker and ambitious now that he learned he's a Targ and the "Prince that was Promise".

 I thought about this ever since i watched this breakdown about the teaser, which i believe it's the most informative analysis i seen.

GRMM did say that Jon will learn about his parentage.

 

 

Wow I can't open the video right now but what you say is so interesting. 

we have theorised that Bran will contact Jon maybe through Ghost. so through the trees is a valid option, trees--ghost---(jon/ghost)---Jon

when jon returns he will be darker. 

But what i was referring was that BR may indeed be devil. it was from the sister's thread. Does he have a dark plan? We thought that it's not very likely because he should be loyal to the Starks, but could be. I think it was @Tijgy who talked about this, quoting me.

[Lady of Butterflies]

9 minutes ago, The Arthur Smith said:

But what kind of act? What deed that will have serious consequences or enough to make Bran villainous?

Unless

  Reveal hidden contents

It's Bran revealing the truth about the TOJ to Jon via through the heartree that will have consequences. I know, crazy idea. But i can't help maybe this will make Jon darker and ambitious now that he learned he's a Targ and the "Prince that was Promise".

 I thought about this ever since i watched this breakdown about the teaser, which i believe it's the most informative analysis i seen.

GRMM did say that Jon will learn about his parentage.

 

 

Spoiler

Regarding the consequences, I refer to immediate consequences for Bran himself or for the people who are with him. I think he may try to find out more about the Night's King, and in a way, endanger his life, of Hodor and Meera and Three-eyed raven.

 

[Meera of Tarth]

19 minutes ago, Lady of Butterflies said:

My theory (read only if you want).

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The Night's King and wights will invade the cave. Bran, Hodor and Meera, with the help of Leaf will escape through the network of tunnels. And then we'll see Bran, on a horse, in south of the wall, at the end of the season.

 

I think it's very likely to happen. That would be the sweet interpretation

[Meera of Tarth]

I was thinking.....what if we revisited the flashbacks Bran has in S4?

[The Arthur Smith]

12 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Wow I can't open the video right now but what you say is so interesting. 

we have theorised that Bran will contact Jon maybe through Ghost. so through the trees is a valid option, trees--ghost---(jon/ghost)---Jon

when jon returns he will be darker. 

But what i was referring was that BR may indeed be devil. it was from the sister's thread. Does he have a dark plan? We thought that it's not very likely because he should be loyal to the Starks, but could be. I think it was @Tijgy who talked about this, quoting me.

Sorry about the video. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcKfV0HEN2Y

Interesting about Bloodraven, we don't know his endgame. He has a complicated past and now that he dot on magic, the NW demonize him as an evil sorcerer. Is he planning to save Westeros? Or is he attempting to destroy Westeros by misleading Bran? There should be a thread for this: Is Bloodraven evil or not?

11 minutes ago, Lady of Butterflies said:

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Regarding the consequences, I refer to immediate consequences for Bran himself or for the people who are with him. I think he may try to find out more about the Night's King, and in a way, endanger his life, of Hodor and Meera and Three-eyed raven.

 

Could be. After all, Bran developing his magic should have serious outcomes. It wouldn't be GRMM without it.

[Lady of Butterflies]

3 minutes ago, The Arthur Smith said:

Could be. After all, Bran developing his magic should have serious outcomes. It wouldn't GRMM without it.

Spoiler

My bets on the consequences: they will break into the cave, burning all the things, killing Bloodraven and COTF. In addition, Meera or Hodor can also die on the trail. 

 

[The Arthur Smith]

Just now, Lady of Butterflies said:

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My bets on the consequences: they will break into the cave, burning all the things, killing Bloodraven and COTF. In addition, Meera or Hodor can also die on the trail. 

 

Spoiler

You had me until the part about killing Bloodraven and COTF...

 

[Lady of Butterflies]

2 minutes ago, The Arthur Smith said:

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You had me until the part about killing Bloodraven and COTF...

 

I think Bloodraven will die this season. It was said that Max will have little screen time, despite the importance of  his character. Also, he seems to be an actor just hired for one season.

[The Arthur Smith]

Just now, Lady of Butterflies said:

I think Bloodraven will die this season. It was said that Max will have little screen time, despite the importance of  his character. Also, he seems to be an actor just hired for one season.

True. While i do think Bloodraven will die this season, i doubt Bran will be the one to kill him, never mind that he's a powerful sorcerer...

Bloodraven and COTF might sacrifice themselves to protect Bran from the White Walkers.

[Lady of Butterflies]

1 minute ago, The Arthur Smith said:

True. While i do think Bloodraven will die this season, i doubt Bran will be the one to kill him, never mind that he's a powerful sorcerer...

Bloodraven and COTF might sacrifice themselves to protect Bran from the White Walkers.

Yes, I think they will sacrifice themselves to Bran be able to escape.

[Tijgy]

6 hours ago, The Arthur Smith said:

Interesting about Bloodraven, we don't know his endgame. He has a complicated past and now that he dot on magic, the NW demonize him as an evil sorcerer. Is he planning to save Westeros? Or is he attempting to destroy Westeros by misleading Bran? There should be a thread for this: Is Bloodraven evil or not?

6 hours ago, Lady of Butterflies said:

Oh, that Bloodraven, always the question with him. To be evil, or not to be evil! I am not really sure the NightWatch ever demonized him an evil sorcerer? During his time as Hand he was being demonized probably by more than half of the country. Mel saw him in the flames and thought he was the Great Other. (But must we really always believe Mel's interpretations?

(I call Mormont's raven Raven btw)

The person behind Mormont's raven helped several times to defend the realm agains the Others and Wights. Mormont and his Raven had a brilliant bromance and Raven gave him a lot of shit love . In the Bran's Power's thread I made a comparison between the two moments where both Jon and Tyrion were influenced by the Old Gods. Tyrion felt he was taken by madness when he walked upon the Wall where he saw over the land beyound the Wall. Jon felt it was madness to follow Ghost to the place where he found the dragon glass. 

(Posts can be found here: The whole analyses and discussion starts here. But here is the most important fragment: 

Quote

The divine inspiration of Tyrion Lannister and Jon Snow

In this chapter Jon is influenced/inspired in the same way by the old gods as Tyrion. The old gods influence both of them to go to a place where they encounter something that might help the Night’s Watch. Tyrion is lead to Jon Snow who is guarding the Wall and is made to look over the land beyond the Wall so that he might start to believe the stories about the Others and so he might influence the King, … into helping the Night’s Watch. Jon is lead to a grave where he finds weapons that the Night’s Watch can use in the fight against the Others.

Both times the person influenced remarks the wind and the howling wolves in the background. In both instances this person notices the swirling wind. Both are being forced into something they call “madness” and wonder why the hell are they doing this. According Tyrion he is lead into that path by the wind who is an insistent lover. Jon follows (angry) his wolf. 

In this chapter there is apparently also connection between the wind and Ghost. Ghost is in the forest where the wind blews and makes the branches groan and the leaves flutter. (“When the wind blew, he could hear the creak and groan of branches older than he was. A thousand leaves fluttered, and for a moment the forest seemed a deep green sea, storm-tossed and heaving,eternal and unknowable”). The wind whistles just like Jon whistles to Ghost (“He could hear the wind whistling through cracks in the rocks as they neared the ringwall”). And strangely Ghost also sniffles the wind (“The direwolf circled the fire, sniffling Jon, sniffling the wind, never still. It did not seem as if he were after meat right now”). So the old gods are maybe using the wind to tell Ghost what he has to do? They might tell: “Ghost, you must irritate Jon and make sure he follows you to this grave (and to his grave because it is actually very dangerous how you are leading him through this dark forest)”. 

The eyes of Ghost and the Raven are described in similar ways during this chapter: the eyes of the raven are a-glitter and the eyes of the wolf are glowing by the flames (“The bird tilted its head to one side, little eyes a-glitter”; “across the fire, a pair of red eyes regarded him from the shadows. The light of the flames made them glow). Is this a way of the writer to say both animals are influenced by the same thing, the old gods?

It is also possible to say Tyrion’s chapter and Jon’s chapter have the same structure. First, there is a talk between the officers of the Night’s Watch where Jon or Tyrion are present, you have then a talk between Jon or Tyrion and Lord Mormont where Raven is present and then Tyrion and Jon are influenced by the old gods through the wind or Ghost (listening to the wind?). 

An answer to the Old Bear's prayers?

In one of my posts I wrote what the old gods might intend by influencing Tyrion to look over at the Land Beyond the Wall: making him believe in the stories so he would influence the King, … . This could be considered as a reaction on what the Old Bear and Tyrion asked about during their conversation: the plea of the Old Bear at Tyrion to make him influence his family into helping the Night’s Watch. 

Is it possible the intention of the old gods to influence Jon is also linked with the topic of Jon’s and the Old Bear’s conversation? Jon and the Old Bear are talking about the whereabouts of Benjen Stark and about the fact he might come to them (If Ben Stark is alive and free, he will come to us, I have no doubt”). Are the Old Gods answering the Old Bear's prayers? Does Ghost lead Jon to a place where Ben Stark might have been once? The weapons are placed there recently by someone who might be in the possession of a Night’s Watch cloak. This someone can have been Benjen Stark. 

Was that maybe why the raven started to scream cackling, when the Old Bear said: “Is it … it seems to me it might be easier for one man to find two hundred than for two hundred to find one.” Ironically, if those weapons were left by Benjen Stark, it would mean the two hundred did found the one man (and this one man already left this place?). The raven might find it sarcastic the two hundred men are actually waiting for nothing. (Or he already knows Ben Stark is dead and screams cackling because of that reason?)

A side topic of the Old Bear’s and Jon’s conversation was the dead walking. You can just say the old gods are leading Jon to a place where someone hid weapons to fight the wights. But the problem here is obsidian can only be used to fight the Others and not the wights. And only the wights are mentioned during the conversation and not the Others?

So this means either the old gods lead Jon to the place where Benjen Stark was earlier (main topic of the conversation), to the place where weapons are found to fight the Others (indirect topic of the conversation). 

Or the divine intervention has nothing to do with those conversations and the Old Gods do not answer the Old Bear's prayers? It is just a coincidence that this happened two times?

I personally believe that the old gods are indeed listening through Raven and did intend to help the Old Bear in his battle against the Others and the wights. While I normally intend to be vague about who actually the certain Old God might be, I personally also believe it is Bloodraven who is actually looking through Raven's eye. Bloodraven was Lord Commander of the Night Watch. I think it would nice to see (Blood)raven actually never really left the Wall to defend it. This is one of the reasons why I personally believe he (and the CotF) also intend to fight against the Others.

I think we also must take in account who Bloodraven actually is. Except proposing several times to Shiera, did he actually do anything which was for his own personal goal. He served years in the Council for his King, his family (and probably in his own mind) for the realm. The only thing he gained was power which he sacrificed when he killed Aenys for Dareon's lineage (and probably in his own mind) for the realm. He spent then almost twenty years at the Wall defending again the Realm and six years after his arrival made Lord Commander. And then he disappears and while "he has lived beyond his mortal span", he still doesn't allow himself to rest and according to Leaf "he lingers. For us, for you, for the realms of men." (okay, I admit Leaf always can lie).

But we have here someone who spent almost sixty years I believe working for his family and in his own mind for the realm. Personally, I cannot see someone suddenly deciding to side with the Others and to fight against 'men'. So I personally I think his goal isn't evil. 

however

We are still talking here about Bloodraven who is a machevallian and who is a real fan of "the end justifies the means". I believe he is someone who needs an authority figure who informs him some means are not the right way to achieve certain things (f.e. We have to kill all those traitors - No, Brynden, that is a little to extreme). So while I think he is fighting agains the Others, I do not trust him, I personally believe he is willing to sacrifice certain to achieve his goal and some of his actions might be seen as evil, f.e. that bloody 3EC who spend all that time traumatize Bran in his dreams, is rather evil.          

In the show they actually already tried us to raise some tension. Unlike in the books, Jojen is not gentle. He is rather mysterious and the showrunners intended to make the viewers wonder if Jojen (and the 3ER) might be evil. However they also said that at a certain moment they made clear Jojen is not evil but a really good guy. I believe it would weird to make suddenly BR then also a bad guy on the show? But you can never know with GOT. 

7 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

We thought that it's not very likely because he should be loyal to the Starks, but could be. I think it was @Tijgy who talked about this, quoting me.

I am not really sure who said it first. But a poster said Ned might have been visited by BR in his dreams. You wondered then why BR would be loyal to the Starks and why would he visit Ned's dreams and I said:

1° It is all part of his evil plan?

2° Starks are praying to the old gods? Ned is actually quite religious, no? So maybe Bloodraven feels Ned is a friend, because Ned visited him several times in the past? 

3° If BR does intend really to fight against the Others, it would be better if Ned as grown-up is Lord Stark. I personally believe the Old Gods visited also Lord Mormont in his dreams: 

You must make them(the king, Jaime and Tywin) understand. I tell you, my lord, the darkness is coming. There are wild things in the woods, direwolves and mammoths and snow bears the size of aurochs, and I have seen darker shapes in my dreams."

 

[Darksky]

How about this? Meera is confirmed to be not trusting of Bloodraven, thinking he's shady, bad for Bran and all. But Bran's ego swells from all the power and lessons Bloodraven is giving him. In a heartbreaking scene Meera tries to reason with Bran to get away, things escalate and blinded by rage Bran kills Meera (and Hodor if he tries to protect her), using tree branches. I'm suddenly reminded of that scene in Silent Hill with Dark Alessa killing everyone with barbed wire. That was brutal.

Or White Walkers come and kill them.

[Tijgy]

I don't like this spoiler .

[Meera of Tarth]

2 hours ago, Darksky said:

How about this? Meera is confirmed to be not trusting of Bloodraven, thinking he's shady, bad for Bran and all. But Bran's ego swells from all the power and lessons Bloodraven is giving him. In a heartbreaking scene Meera tries to reason with Bran to get away, things escalate and blinded by rage Bran kills Meera (and Hodor if he tries to protect her), using tree branches. I'm suddenly reminded of that scene in Silent Hill with Dark Alessa killing everyone with barbed wire. That was brutal.

Or White Walkers come and kill them.

Oh I would not qualify it as heartbreaking, it's even worse. It's an immense tragedy. I don't like it.......