[Book Spoilers All] Bran’s Growing Powers in S6 Based upon the Reread

[Meera of Tarth]

4 hours ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Hi Meera of Tarth she of the many Avatar images! 

Those pictures are a little worrying for sure.  My guess is that Bran does get upset at BR, or the stuff he is showing him at least, and attempts to have one of these visions alone.  Which is when the Night's King invades this vision and is able to actually see and touch Bran like BR can.  Thus, with Bran being unable to awake from this visionary state it leads to Meera trying to wake him up etc.........  That's my guess anyway, I think a lot of the people on this thread have said something similar all along.

Which leads us to speculate that the NK can use the same magic as BR/old gods at some level.  Which in turn adds weight to the idea that the Others could be a result of CotF magic in the first place.  Some eagle eyed fans have spotted that the prosthetics on the faces of the Night's King and the Children are similar.  The eyes and the brow to be exact, this might be nothing but the show does try and use costume and music etc... to relay hints and subtleties where the books can't.

Also, did anyone notice the 'wind' reference in the Tower of Joy episode?  When Bran was back in the cave he said 'He [Ned] heard me'' and BR replied ''perhaps it was the wind''  Hmmm, this got me thinking.  There were no leaves around to rustle so this is potentially giving the wind a voice as we have posted about in the re-read thread.  Again this may be nothing, but it caught my attention.  Can't wait for the next episode!          

Hi Wizz!!!

I see that this episode will be when Bran will be alone doing what he wants without permission.

What you say is really interesting.....we will se what happens!!!

And the wind reference! Yes! I really liked that! And also that Bran said "Father". If the wind speculation from the asoiaf thread turns out  to be certain (and I think it is) I'll be thrilled! Bran is THE Hero!!

[Le Cygne]

2 hours ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Hey Le Cygne and Tijgy.  Thanks, let's hope it comes to something, that would be cool.  I always thought it would be hard for them to incorporate the wind angle, even though they did it with Osha and Bran in the early seasons. (leaves rustling)  So I was pleasantly surprised to hear this bit of dialogue.

They could use these types of mentions for all the hints, and of course get a bit creative.  I'm on the lookout for any mentions of wind as well, and any other offerings of the wind having a voice.  A whisper or a sigh for example, hey if BR is getting a little frustrated at Bran perhaps that's where we'll get the 'sighs', that would be hard to incorporate into spoken dialogue.     

Still, I am excited to see how, if at all, D&D are going to involve this line of thinking.   

I did a search in the transcripts so far of wind:

This one like the books:

Osha: Who do you think sends the wind if not the Gods?

Then in 2x01, a Northern lord:

"The walls of my Holdfast will not stand the winter. The stones were last mortared in the time of King Aerys, and I'm afraid the masons today are not fit to carry their fathers' hammers. When I was a boy, I remember seeing them put up a new tower at Torrhen's Square in a summer. Men worked back then. Today, my Holdfast looks like it was built by drunk children. At night you can hear the wind howling through the gaps. And the Gods forbid it rains. Why, I might as well sleep beneath a waterfall."

2x02, Mormont asking for help:

"The cold winds are rising and the dead rise with them." The northerners are a superstitious people.

[Tijgy]

15 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Hi Wizz!!!

I see that this episode will be when Bran will be alone doing what he wants without permission.

What you say is really interesting.....we will se what happens!!!

And the wind reference! Yes! I really liked that! And also that Bran said "Father". If the wind speculation from the asoiaf thread turns out  to be certain (and I think it is) I'll be thrilled! Bran is THE Hero!!

And me already thinking it was already certain ... 

Thanks, Le Cygne for the work. I put some remarks in the quote in color

1 minute ago, Le Cygne said:

I did a search in the transcripts so far of wind:

This one like the books:

Osha: Who do you think sends the wind if not the Gods? - Quote directly from the books, Bran IV AGOT. Osha is of course (one of) the first characters who is giving Bran information about the old gods, ... In ACOK she is the first one who tells him his tree dreams mean that the gods are talking to him ("You should not fight so hard, boy. I see you talking to the heart tree. Might be the gods are trying to talk back.", ACOK Bran I)

Then in 2x01, a Northern lord:

"The walls of my Holdfast will not stand the winter. The stones were last mortared in the time of King Aerys, and I'm afraid the masons today are not fit to carry their fathers' hammers. When I was a boy, I remember seeing them put up a new tower at Torrhen's Square in a summer. Men worked back then. Today, my Holdfast looks like it was built by drunk children. At night you can hear the wind howling through the gaps. And the Gods forbid it rains. Why, I might as well sleep beneath a waterfall." (howling wind! In the reread thread we keep talking about this. Howling does remind us of course the wolves, symbols of the Starks who are followers of the old gods. It is several times used in the books. And maybe Wizz, Meera, ... recall this better than me but did we also not talked about some wind passing through a gate? 

2x02, Mormont asking for help:

"The cold winds are rising and the dead rise with them." The northerners are a superstitious people. (That refers more to the WW than the old gods, right?)

 

30 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I see that this episode will be when Bran will be alone doing what he wants without permission.

 

I think we will have a lot of Bran this episode 

[Meera of Tarth]

I think that there is more than meets the eye with the winds. We have already discovered that but remember the next book is called Winds of Winter.

both the books and the show have shown us inna subtle way the winds' connection to Bran....

 

[Wizz-The-Smith]

4 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

I did a search in the transcripts so far of wind:

This one like the books:

Osha: Who do you think sends the wind if not the Gods?

Then in 2x01, a Northern lord:

"The walls of my Holdfast will not stand the winter. The stones were last mortared in the time of King Aerys, and I'm afraid the masons today are not fit to carry their fathers' hammers. When I was a boy, I remember seeing them put up a new tower at Torrhen's Square in a summer. Men worked back then. Today, my Holdfast looks like it was built by drunk children. At night you can hear the wind howling through the gaps. And the Gods forbid it rains. Why, I might as well sleep beneath a waterfall."

2x02, Mormont asking for help:

"The cold winds are rising and the dead rise with them." The northerners are a superstitious people.

Hey Le Cygne!    Great work putting this together, thanks.  There are seldom few mentions of the wind then, yet the examples you've found are very familiar.  Tijgy's reply is on point with a lot of what we've discussed in the re-read thread, I will attempt to add a little more.

As you point out the first example is from the books, and straight up tells us that the old gods send the wind!  This is a big clue in the books [in plain sight as well] but not so easy to follow up in the series.  However, it is there as something they could potentially play with moving forward.

The 'howling wind' is a clever technique in the books where GRRM is able to link wolves/old gods/Starks to the wind via the text.  The 'howling' is often then followed by a wolf reference and the wind 'biting' or receiving lessons in howling from the wolves etc......  This is again hard to achieve in the show.  However, perhaps the odd mention of these techniques serves well enough to enable this technique to blossom in future series?  A howling wind is definitely interesting.

In reply to Tijgy and the wind using a gate in the books.  This is a subtle personification in the books, giving the wind a civility not usually attached to the wind or any element for that matter.  I don't think it links to this dialogue, the 'gaps' in the Holdfast's stonework would certainly enhance the 'howling' of the wind though.  And notice how the gods are mentioned in such close proximity to the howling wind as well.  Again, this technique is used in the books.

As for the 'cold winds rising and the dead rise with them.'  I'm not sure this should be 100% linked to the Others.  There are potentially two forces mentioned in this sentence, 'The cold winds - and the dead that rise'.  There are examples of a cold descending alongside the wind in the books [involving a ravening wolf description, which screams Bran imho]  Yet we have the knowledge that the NK may be able influence the same magic.  This sentence also appears in the books, and is one to watch.  I noticed a separation of the 'cold wind' and the 'cold itself' that the Others bring in the AGOT prologue.

Let's hope that D&D have some sort of idea about this line of enquiry, it seems promising atm.  Even just a few subtle hints in the dialogue as we have had up to now would make me happy.  And btw, Meera I agree the winds will have some surprises for us in TWOW.     

[CrypticWeirwood]

On May 21, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Meera of Tarth said:

I think that there is more than meets the eye with the winds. We have already discovered that but remember the next book is called Winds of Winter.

both the books and the show have shown us inna subtle way the winds' connection to Bran....

We've been told again and again that words are wind.  But Theon's experience suggests that the wind bears words, too.

[Meera of Tarth]

 

31 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

We've been told again and again that words are wind.  But Theon's experience suggests that the wind bears words, too.

Exactly.

Just a small example of all that wind will mean

[Le Cygne]

On 5/21/2016 at 3:52 PM, Tijgy said:

And me already thinking it was already certain ... 

Thanks, Le Cygne for the work. I put some remarks in the quote in color

 

I think we will have a lot of Bran this episode 

 

On 5/22/2016 at 8:37 PM, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Hey Le Cygne!    Great work putting this together, thanks.  There are seldom few mentions of the wind then, yet the examples you've found are very familiar.  Tijgy's reply is on point with a lot of what we've discussed in the re-read thread, I will attempt to add a little more.

As you point out the first example is from the books, and straight up tells us that the old gods send the wind!  This is a big clue in the books [in plain sight as well] but not so easy to follow up in the series.  However, it is there as something they could potentially play with moving forward.

The 'howling wind' is a clever technique in the books where GRRM is able to link wolves/old gods/Starks to the wind via the text.  The 'howling' is often then followed by a wolf reference and the wind 'biting' or receiving lessons in howling from the wolves etc......  This is again hard to achieve in the show.  However, perhaps the odd mention of these techniques serves well enough to enable this technique to blossom in future series?  A howling wind is definitely interesting.

In reply to Tijgy and the wind using a gate in the books.  This is a subtle personification in the books, giving the wind a civility not usually attached to the wind or any element for that matter.  I don't think it links to this dialogue, the 'gaps' in the Holdfast's stonework would certainly enhance the 'howling' of the wind though.  And notice how the gods are mentioned in such close proximity to the howling wind as well.  Again, this technique is used in the books.

As for the 'cold winds rising and the dead rise with them.'  I'm not sure this should be 100% linked to the Others.  There are potentially two forces mentioned in this sentence, 'The cold winds - and the dead that rise'.  There are examples of a cold descending alongside the wind in the books [involving a ravening wolf description, which screams Bran imho]  Yet we have the knowledge that the NK may be able influence the same magic.  This sentence also appears in the books, and is one to watch.  I noticed a separation of the 'cold wind' and the 'cold itself' that the Others bring in the AGOT prologue.

Let's hope that D&D have some sort of idea about this line of enquiry, it seems promising atm.  Even just a few subtle hints in the dialogue as we have had up to now would make me happy.  And btw, Meera I agree the winds will have some surprises for us in TWOW.     

Oh, cool, thanks for the insight, guys. I was wondering what that all might mean.

[Tijgy]

4 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Oh, cool, thanks for the insight, guys. I was wondering what that all might mean.

In the Bran Powers Growing Reread Thread we discuss a lot of meanings behind the words. Very interesting but the posts are always very long 

Does anyone understand who actually warged into who during last episode? I do not really understand what happened there really?

[Meera of Tarth]

Ok, that's my take on the episode:

The origin of White Walkers

In this episode we learn that The Children'ns magic and The Others' (WW's in the show) are not only connected, as @Wizz-The-Smith had speculated, but also that The Children created them. That's a huge discovery. From what we see in the episode,they create them from men; so now we know that WW's actually are a collection of dead men, babies transformed in WW's and that the First ones were men; who were the cause that made The Children create that dark magic.

We also now that The Children use fire and ice magic as something natural. They are connected to both forms of magic.

I was extremely surprised when Leaf says That the cause of this decision was "Bran", but then she says it's because of men. Was it made on purpose? Was she implying (or are the showrunner's implying that Bran is evil) I don't think so, but it was a good device to make us wonder if, what happens later in the episode and the future of Bran is something linked to tragic events. 

BR's last lesson in Winterfell

When BR knows that The Night's King is coming to the cave he knows he has only some time to teach Bran. And he decides that one of the possible things he has to learn is related to Winterfell.

Why is WInterfell so important?

Are R.Stark's words important? Why do they choose this particular moment? It's only coincidence, it's to match Hodor's destiny in the last minutes, or is there something more than meets the eye?

Can it be linked to Winterfell Crypts?

HODOR the hero

I cried a lot in this episode. We lost Summer, not in the epic way I would imagine for him, but still, he sacrificed his life for his friend, Bran.

We lost Hodor in an emotional way that I have no words to describe.

6 hours ago, Tijgy said:

In the Bran Powers Growing Reread Thread we discuss a lot of meanings behind the words. Very interesting but the posts are always very long 

Does anyone understand who actually warged into who during last episode? I do not really understand what happened there really?

I've just seen the Inside The Episode and they don't give any information related to this. I read an article that implied there's some warging but I totally disagree with that.

From my point of view, It's Hodor who sacrifices, willingly (or does his best and doesn't know if we will survive), and not Bran. Present Hodor doesn't have the warging eyes at any moment. Furthermore, in the WF's vision, it's only young Hodor who has those eyes. Bran doesn't have them and he is actually watching Young Hodor becoming "Hodor" as we know it; and Bran has warging eyes only in the present; but these are the same eyes that they use when he is having a vision.

I think this episode strongly suggests that Bran is connected to space and time and has the ability to subtetly change the past, something that is related to everything we have discussed from the WInds, that appears in the very first episode.

 

• -I think that there was another Bran in the past (not sure if it's the same Bran than now) that was responsible for many things that happened, including Hodor's issue. But I don't think THIS Bran was not responsible for what happened to Present Hodor. (By responsible I mean warging)

 

• -Another possibility is that Present Bran created, unwillingly, and due to his growing powers, a connection between time, thus creating the two Hodor's connection; but it must have happened previously in the past, due to another Bran. So, as BR said, The past is already written, and the ink is dry and Bran can't change the past or the future, because if he does that it's because it had to be done. There is a cylic timeline. That is linked to the fact that BR possibly didn't know the potential of Bran.

 

• -Nevertheless, I think that there is the possibility that parallel universes exist. That could made Bran the possibility to change a few things from different timelines, although if he doesn't do it correctly, it would provoke a snowball effect, and possibily destroy him.

 

Meera and Valyrian Steel

I'm not sure if Meera found a sword of Valyrian steel in the cave. Everything happened so fast and it was very dark. Anyway, she learns a way of destroying WW's, and it mirrors Jon Snow in the exact same situation in Hardhome. But we know they like mirroring similar fights.

Fire also kills WW's for sure.

The remaining Children

I am not sure whether there are any Children who survived the event.

Immediate consequences

Meera is the only last survivor, appart from Rickon, from the initial journey that Bran and his companions started. I couldn't help but remember Old Nan's story about the Last Hero. IIRC, He had 12 companions in that journey and they all died. In Season 4 there are 12 figures when we learn that babies can become WW's. I don't know if Meera will die, but it's not unlikely.

However, I'm also of the opinion that Meera will be important in Bran's immediate future. He only has her now. What would happen?

Will they talk about everything that has happened? Will she be mentoring him?

[Marcus Agrippa]

30 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Ok, that's my take on the episode:

The origin of White Walkers

In this episode we learn that The Children'ns magic and The Others' (WW's in the show) are not only connected, as @Wizz-The-Smith had speculated, but also that The Children created them. That's a huge discovery. From what we see in the episode,they create them from men; so now we know that WW's actually are a collection of dead men, babies transformed in WW's and that the First ones were men; who were the cause that made The Children create that dark magic.

We also now that The Children use fire and ice magic as something natural. They are connected to both forms of magic.

I was extremely surprised when Leaf says That the cause of this decision was "Bran", but then she says it's because of men. Was it made on purpose? Was she implying (or are the showrunner's implying that Bran is evil) I don't think so, but it was a good device to make us wonder if, what happens later in the episode and the future of Bran is something linked to tragic events. 

BR's last lesson in Winterfell

When BR knows that The Night's King is coming to the cave he knows he has only some time to teach Bran. And he decides that one of the possible things he has to learn is related to Winterfell.

Why is WInterfell so important?

Are R.Stark's words important? Why do they choose this particular moment? It's only coincidence, it's to match Hodor's destiny in the last minutes, or is there something more than meets the eye?

Can it be linked to Winterfell Crypts?

HODOR the hero

I cried a lot in this episode. We lost Summer, not in the epic way I would imagine for him, but still, he sacrificed his life for his friend, Bran.

We lost Hodor in an emotional way that I have no words to describe.

I've just seen the Inside The Episode and they don't give any information related to this. I read an article that implied there's some warging but I totally disagree with that.

From my point of view, It's Hodor who sacrifices, willingly (or does his best and doesn't know if we will survive), and not Bran. Present Hodor doesn't have the warging eyes at any moment. Furthermore, in the WF's vision, it's only young Hodor who has those eyes. Bran doesn't have them and he is actually watching Young Hodor becoming "Hodor" as we know it; and Bran has warging eyes only in the present; but these are the same eyes that they use when he is having a vision.

I think this episode strongly suggests that Bran is connected to space and time and has the ability to subtetly change the past, something that is related to everything we have discussed from the WInds, that appears in the very first episode.

 

• -I think that there was another Bran in the past (not sure if it's the same Bran than now) that was responsible for many things that happened, including Hodor's issue. But I don't think THIS Bran was not responsible for what happened to Present Hodor. (By responsible I mean warging)

 

• -Another possibility is that Present Bran created, unwillingly, and due to his growing powers, a connection between time, thus creating the two Hodor's connection; but it must have happened previously in the past, due to another Bran. So, as BR said, The past is already written, and the ink is dry and Bran can't change the past or the future, because if he does that it's because it had to be done. There is a cylic timeline. That is linked to the fact that BR possibly didn't know the potential of Bran.

 

• -Nevertheless, I think that there is the possibility that parallel universes exist. That could made Bran the possibility to change a few things from different timelines, although if he doesn't do it correctly, it would provoke a snowball effect, and possibily destroy him.

 

Meera and Valyrian Steel

I'm not sure if Meera found a sword of Valyrian steel in the cave. Everything happened so fast and it was very dark. Anyway, she learns a way of destroying WW's, and it mirrors Jon Snow in the exact same situation in Hardhome. But we know they like mirroring similar fights.

Fire also kills WW's for sure.

The remaining Children

I am not sure whether there are any Children who survived the event.

Immediate consequences

Meera is the only last survivor, appart from Rickon, from the initial journey that Bran and his companions started. I couldn't help but remember Old Nan's story about the Last Hero. IIRC, He had 12 companions in that journey and they all died. In Season 4 there are 12 figures when we learn that babies can become WW's. I don't know if Meera will die, but it's not unlikely.

However, I'm also of the opinion that Meera will be important in Bran's immediate future. He only has her now. What would happen?

Will they talk about everything that has happened? Will she be mentoring him?

Not to be a buzz kill, but I know the immediate future for meera this season. It's out there in some of my previous posts, and I really don't want to spam it It's a source from reddit.

[Meera of Tarth]

1 minute ago, Marcus Agrippa said:

Not to be a buzz kill, but I know the immediate future for meera this season. It's out there in some of my previous posts, and I really don't want to spam it It's a source from reddit.

Do it and you will be reported. Nothing personal, but This thread is a speculation thread, not a leaked discussion thread (something which is not permitted in the forum, bu the way). Just a friendly warning.

[Tijgy]

44 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

From my point of view, It's Hodor who sacrifices, willingly (or does his best and doesn't know if we will survive), and not Bran. Present Hodor doesn't have the warging eyes at any moment. Furthermore, in the WF's vision, it's only young Hodor who has those eyes. Bran doesn't have them and he is actually watching Young Hodor becoming "Hodor" as we know it; and Bran has warging eyes only in the present; but these are the same eyes that they use when he is having a vision.

 

I think you are right. 

In the R&R thread I wrote that Nairn said in one of the videos: 

And I think @Meera of Tarth is right when she said Hodor chose to sacrifice himself and not that Present Hodor was being skinchanged by Bran to force him to hold the Door? Because of what Nairn says in the end: "I like what he has done. That he sacrificed himself for his friends. It is very true to Hodor to me but it is really sad." Go Hero Hodor! 

I really hope this is true because other wise I just would feel completely disgusted and it would take something amazing away from Hodor, the fact he decided to sacrifice himself for his friends which is actually one of the few beautiful actions that still happened in the series. 

[Marcus Agrippa]

11 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Do it and you will be reported. Nothing personal, but This thread is a speculation thread, not a leaked discussion thread (something which is not permitted in the forum, bu the way). Just a friendly warning.

I know, thats why I am not putting it in nor saying what happens in even a context way. Let me say this, I am not sure what role bran has beyond finding out who Jon is. Him being lord would make sense, but Sansa also being lady of winterfell is pretty insaning as well. Jon will end up most likely King, and who knows about Arya. 

[Tijgy]

For the interested: 

And you have than also the part of the Inside the Episode of course. 

[Meera of Tarth]

6 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

I think you are right. 

In the R&R thread I wrote that Nairn said in one of the videos: 

And I think @Meera of Tarth is right when she said Hodor chose to sacrifice himself and not that Present Hodor was being skinchanged by Bran to force him to hold the Door? Because of what Nairn says in the end: "I like what he has done. That he sacrificed himself for his friends. It is very true to Hodor to me but it is really sad." Go Hero Hodor! 

I really hope this is true because other wise I just would feel completely disgusted and it would take something amazing away from Hodor, the fact he decided to sacrifice himself for his friends which is actually one of the few beautiful actions that still happened in the series. 

Exactly!! That's what made me cry! And that's why I watched Inside the Episode, just if they were saying anything about skinchanging, but no

Now I'm really confused about BR bringing bhim to WInterfell again. I imagined that WF is important for some reason.

[Tijgy]

@Meera of Tarth I read some interviews and it just made me more confused? 

There was an onslaught of White Walkers and wights who had discovered their hideout under the Weirwood tree. Bran, as it seems, scrambled Hodor's (erstwhile known as Wylis) mind in the past while using his ability of Greensight. He commanded the present Hodor to "hold the door" to keep the wights away. "Hold the door," the young Wylis repeated, until it became "Hodor."

http://www.rappler.com/entertainment/news/133978-game-of-thrones-season-6-hodor-kristian-nairn-bran-stark-isaac-hempstead-wright

[Meera of Tarth]

36 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

@Meera of Tarth I read some interviews and it just made me more confused? 

There was an onslaught of White Walkers and wights who had discovered their hideout under the Weirwood tree. Bran, as it seems, scrambled Hodor's (erstwhile known as Wylis) mind in the past while using his ability of Greensight. He commanded the present Hodor to "hold the door" to keep the wights away. "Hold the door," the young Wylis repeated, until it became "Hodor."

http://www.rappler.com/entertainment/news/133978-game-of-thrones-season-6-hodor-kristian-nairn-bran-stark-isaac-hempstead-wright

No, the actors don't say anything that proves us wrong.

[Meera of Tarth]

Just seen carefully and Hodor gets warged by Bran

However, Wyllis gets warged AFTER Hodor gets warged. It's strange. Maybe Bran was feeling bad and lost

control of the warging, and the warging changed in time, making Wyllis warged, instead of Hodor.

I'm not sure if Hodor is still Bran in the last seconds.

That's even more tragic, and makes Bran two times selfish.

It's not the same. Hodor is not a hero. Or is he....even more? Considering he MIGHT find him sckinchanged

by Bran IN THE DOOR?

That makes the events totally cyclical, which is very weird. Anyway, I believe parallel universes can still exist. 

-There's a connection in time "warging" very difficult to explain.

-Wyllis sees Bran. That's even more weird.

-I still believe Bran has more powers than he imagines, and he doesn't control everything.

Some questions:

• Maybe Present Bran affected Wyllis from The Past, and it caused the present timeline.
• Or....Present Bran created a new timeline and Wyllis from the Past (the one who sees Bran) 
• was not the same Wyllis/Hodor we know?

 

 

• How coud Bran warg Hodor and, at the same time, still have a vision in the past?Is it related to his powers?

 

• Brans from the past might have had different destinies, with different intertwined storylines with different
• pasts?

 

• What if the Present Bran has to learn from Past Bran's actions? Is this Bran Bran The Builder too?

 

• I'm beginning to see Bran as the bittersweet ending=Frodo?

 

Anyway, if Nairn said he sacrificed.....it makes no sense at all. I think Hodor was not

warged all the time, or instead, there is  more than meets the eyes in the warging.

It's not posssible that actors are saying opposite things than what we see.

[Meera of Tarth]