[Book Spoilers All] Bran’s Growing Powers in S6 Based upon the Reread

[Meera of Tarth]

10 hours ago, The Arthur Smith said:

True. While i do think Bloodraven will die this season, i doubt Bran will be the one to kill him, never mind that he's a powerful sorcerer...

Bloodraven and COTF might sacrifice themselves to protect Bran from the White Walkers.

Yes, they could die as a sacrifice...

Oh...I was thinking of a possible sacrifice from Meera

[Tijgy]

Wrong thread! Sorry.

[Meera of Tarth]

3 hours ago, Tijgy said:

 however

We are still talking here about Bloodraven who is a machevallian and who is a real fan of "the end justifies the means". I believe he is someone who needs an authority figure who informs him some means are not the right way to achieve certain things (f.e. We have to kill all those traitors - No, Brynden, that is a little to extreme). So while I think he is fighting agains the Others, I do not trust him, I personally believe he is willing to sacrifice certain to achieve his goal and some of his actions might be seen as evil, f.e. that bloody 3EC who spend all that time traumatize Bran in his dreams, is rather evil.          

In the show they actually already tried us to raise some tension. Unlike in the books, Jojen is not gentle. He is rather mysterious and the showrunners intended to make the viewers wonder if Jojen (and the 3ER) might be evil. However they also said that at a certain moment they made clear Jojen is not evil but a really good guy. I believe it would weird to make suddenly BR then also a bad guy on the show? But you can never know with GOT. 

I am not really sure who said it first. But a poster said Ned might have been visited by BR in his dreams. You wondered then why BR would be loyal to the Starks and why would he visit Ned's dreams and I said:

1° It is all part of his evil plan?

2° Starks are praying to the old gods? Ned is actually quite religious, no? So maybe Bloodraven feels Ned is a friend, because Ned visited him several times in the past? 

3° If BR does intend really to fight against the Others, it would be better if Ned as grown-up is Lord Stark. I personally believe the Old Gods visited also Lord Mormont in his dreams: 

You must make them(the king, Jaime and Tywin) understand. I tell you, my lord, the darkness is coming. There are wild things in the woods, direwolves and mammoths and snow bears the size of aurochs, and I have seen darker shapes in my dreams."

 

Yes, the double meaning. BR is even more mysterious in the show right now: we know nothing about him, except that he said to Bran "that he would fly". We know that the Child of The Forest appeared as  a good "person" and that the Jojens are good fellows too.

But I suppose we will have some hints about Br's past (if they have to be important in the story) this season. What BR tells Bran this season will be crucial. It's like the hints they throw about Jon's parentage in the show; very few, but point to the most discussed version in the books forum (Don't going to talk about this here)

But then as you say, if we pay attention to the books, BR may be evil...but there are also indications that he may indeed not be evil, but just a human being, with his imperfections, probably frustrated, and possibly with his own goal...The dreams, the dark deams, and what Bran sees when he's falling (possibly a vision from BR if not of a future Bran himself) point to the other direction, the good guy one.

The Lore videos could be interesting to discuss, because they may throw hints about the nature of the Children and the greenseers. I don't remember anything wrong about them when I watched them, just that I think that their magic is in a similar level that The WW's one.

[Meera of Tarth]

22 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

So according to McElhinney Barry's death was the event upon which the rest of season 5 of Dany's story line was built on? So the whole point of Barry was just dying? I really cannot see what another reason for his existence in the show was?

Is there news from him? Or it was something he said last year?

Yes, their intention was to make Dany become mad, and push the story forward. But we know that it was a shocking moment for the half of the season too. I have talked about this before in another thread and I don't want to go of-topic, but while I see what they wanted to do, I don't think it's was the most clever decision: Yes, Dany had to face reality, but they made her burn random people without a trial.

In Season 4, Dany also crucifies the owners from Mereen without a trial, and then she discovers that Hizdhard's father was one of the owner's that accepted to crucify the children unwillingly, so she acted a bit like a dictator (not to mention her last decision in Qarth)., that man was as guilty as the others? @Tijgy you know these things better than me, so I put it as a rethorical question.

In Season 5 she thinks that trials are very important because of what happened in S4, and applies justice even for her "friend" who just killed a murderer. I don't see the point of the random burn after that incident, if it's not for showing that she is moved by her basic instincts and that she probably have some of the traits of her father. If it's something like these; I'd be partially OK. (Not ok, but I can understand the motives). But if it was to show she was sad because of Barry's death it was a bad move., because it shows her as an unstable ruler.

Don't want to go of-topic, but haid to answer you.

[Meera of Tarth]

Here's the clip of Bran's visions from S4 (flashbacks and flashforwards from a possible future=? of that tree that sees the past, present and future as the same (books told this))

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gh0-4hOzyw

[Lady of Butterflies]

7 hours ago, Darksky said:

How about this? Meera is confirmed to be not trusting of Bloodraven, thinking he's shady, bad for Bran and all. But Bran's ego swells from all the power and lessons Bloodraven is giving him. In a heartbreaking scene Meera tries to reason with Bran to get away, things escalate and blinded by rage Bran kills Meera (and Hodor if he tries to protect her), using tree branches. I'm suddenly reminded of that scene in Silent Hill with Dark Alessa killing everyone with barbed wire. That was brutal.

Or White Walkers come and kill them.

Meera and Hodor are coming with Bran wherever he is going. Unless he kills them out of the cave. Also, I have the impression that they are not making Bloodraven a shady person. Based on what Isaac has said, he was trying to teach Bran to control his ego and understand the importance of his powers. I think Meera mistrust is natural, but he is not a bad person.

[Lady of Butterflies]

7 hours ago, Darksky said:

How about this? Meera is confirmed to be not trusting of Bloodraven, thinking he's shady, bad for Bran and all. But Bran's ego swells from all the power and lessons Bloodraven is giving him. In a heartbreaking scene Meera tries to reason with Bran to get away, things escalate and blinded by rage Bran kills Meera (and Hodor if he tries to protect her), using tree branches. I'm suddenly reminded of that scene in Silent Hill with Dark Alessa killing everyone with barbed wire. That was brutal.

Or White Walkers come and kill them.

Meera and Hodor are coming with Bran wherever he is going. Unless he kills them out of the cave. Also, I have the impression that they are not making Bloodraven a shady person. Based on what Isaac has said, he was trying to teach Bran to control his ego and understand the importance of his powers. I think Meera mistrust is natural, but he is not a bad person.

[Tijgy]

1 minute ago, Lady of Butterflies said:

Meera and Hodor are coming with Bran wherever he is going. Unless he kills them out of the cave. Also, I have the impression that they are not making Bloodraven a shady person. Based on what Isaac has said, he was trying to teach Bran to control his ego and understand the importance of his powers. I think Meera mistrust is natural, but he is not a bad person.

It is possible to say Bloodraven let Jojen to his death? Jojen at least died when he was bringing Bran to the cave. If I was Meera, I would also distrust him. 

[Lady of Butterflies]

Sorry the double post! 

[Lady of Butterflies]

An interesting declaration by D&D about Bloodraven, from last year:

“Bran and Meera have both been eaten offscreen. At first, the creature that ate them comes off as dangerous, but it is later revealed to be more of a tragic figure.“

 

[Tijgy]

Wait what? Bran and Meera have been meals? This is just getting dark? 

 

[Meera of Tarth]

59 minutes ago, Lady of Butterflies said:

An interesting declaration by D&D about Bloodraven, from last year:

“Bran and Meera have both been eaten offscreen. At first, the creature that ate them comes off as dangerous, but it is later revealed to be more of a tragic figure.“

 

what?????

[Lady of Butterflies]

14 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

what?????

They were explaining why Bran and Meera were not in Season 5.

[Tijgy]

6 minutes ago, Lady of Butterflies said:

They were explaining why Bran and Meera were not in Season 5.

Because they were been eaten? 

[Lady of Butterflies]

1 minute ago, Tijgy said:

Because they were been eaten? 

Yes, according to D&D.

[Tijgy]

But if someone would eat somebody else, would it not have been Bran according to the Jojen Theory? This is just getting weird

[Tijgy]

29 minutes ago, Lady of Butterflies said:

Yes, according to D&D.

Apparently it was just a joke. 

[Lady of Butterflies]

44 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

Apparently it was just a joke. 

Yes, certainly.

[The Arthur Smith]

Considering the current Starks are wargs, it would be possible that Bloodraven is using Bran to utilize his mean for his goal.

[The Arthur Smith]

2 hours ago, Tijgy said:

It is possible to say Bloodraven let Jojen to his death? Jojen at least died when he was bringing Bran to the cave. If I was Meera, I would also distrust him. 

Never thought of that. Interesting cause this would twist the idea of the wise adviser/mentor figure in fantasy series, like with Dumbledore, Gandalf, and Merlin. And we all know GRMM loves to subvert and advert his tropes.

And with Bloodraven being ambiguously evil, it's no surprise.