Re : The Last Kiss, Thoros/Beric/UnCat

[DigUpHerBones]

Since Cat Starks "death" and subsequent revival as Lady Stoneheart, it has been fairly obvious to me that this is the path for Jon to be revived.

We have no other examples of characters resurrecting the dead (other than walkers and Qyburn) in the story other than The Last Kiss by Thoros on Beric, then Beric on Cat Stark.

Not Mel, Benerro, Morqorro or any other devotee of R'hllor has ever been cited as breathing life back into someone after the ritual, despite the act being used for countless years.

In talking about this with other fans of the series, they seemed shocked that I am sold Cat will be the one to revive Jon.

Yet, nobody has been able to give me a credible reason as to, "why not?"

the geographic location argument is going to be the end of me.

and how would that not be a perfect end to her arc and the start of Jon's new story?

[The Sword of the Evening]

On 4/20/2016 at 6:51 PM, DigUpHerBones said:

Since Cat Starks "death" and subsequent revival as Lady Stoneheart, it has been fairly obvious to me that this is the path for Jon to be revived.

We have no other examples of characters resurrecting the dead (other than walkers and Qyburn) in the story other than The Last Kiss by Thoros on Beric, then Beric on Cat Stark.

Not Mel, Benerro, Morqorro or any other devotee of R'hllor has ever been cited as breathing life back into someone after the ritual, despite the act being used for countless years.

In talking about this with other fans of the series, they seemed shocked that I am sold Cat will be the one to revive Jon.

Yet, nobody has been able to give me a credible reason as to, "why not?"

the geographic location argument is going to be the end of me.

and how would that not be a perfect end to her arc and the start of Jon's new story?

Since Thoros seemingly resurrected Beric unintentionally, it is quite possible that Mel could do the same to Jon.

There are also theories that Moqorro resurrected Victarion.

That said it would be a good end to her character arc.

[julynnastarkfan]

I think that once Mel realizes that Jon is AA she will have the commitment/conviction to raise him like Thoros did Beric. She has all these abilities to birth shadow Stannis and other magic so she should be able to bring Jon back.  I think that Thoros  couldn't bear to lose Beric as they were very close friends, so even though he was a disgraced priest his conviction enabled him to use the Kiss on Beric. Jon hopefully warged into Ghost before he dies and Mel can either bring him back in his current body or he could warg a person, which would be gross but I believe possible, even though he's never actually warged into Ghost before. Not sure how she will resurrect him while he is in Ghost though.  What do you all say? 

[Marakesh]

I agree. Its also tells the story better than Mel doing it. Cat's one big negative is her almost irrational hate of Jon. This would be an act of redemption on her part. If Mel does it, it's just a plot device, the two characters have minimal contact with each other. Then there's the BwB storyline. First, they're seeking the king's justice under Berric. In the aftermath of the War of 5 kings they turn to vengence win unCat. It seems off to me that this important group would end at 2. Especially, given the theme of the book, I think its more likely there will be a 3rd phase to the brotherhood where they do find their justice.

[drayrock]

Not bad at all. But I think it goes against what George has taught us with resurrections not to mention all the foreshadowing that it will be Melisandre and the geographic reason. 

George has made it clear that their is a cost to resurrections, moreso for cats. She's no longer herself, Caytelyn TUlly's arc is done. This is stoneheart who is a psychopath and I think the point he's trying to make is not able to be rational any longer.  SO a change would defeat that previous precident. 
 

[Dorian Martell]

On 4/20/2016 at 3:51 PM, DigUpHerBones said:

Since Cat Starks "death" and subsequent revival as Lady Stoneheart, it has been fairly obvious to me that this is the path for Jon to be revived.

We have no other examples of characters resurrecting the dead (other than walkers and Qyburn) in the story other than The Last Kiss by Thoros on Beric, then Beric on Cat Stark.

Not Mel, Benerro, Morqorro or any other devotee of R'hllor has ever been cited as breathing life back into someone after the ritual, despite the act being used for countless years.

In talking about this with other fans of the series, they seemed shocked that I am sold Cat will be the one to revive Jon.

Yet, nobody has been able to give me a credible reason as to, "why not?"

the geographic location argument is going to be the end of me.

and how would that not be a perfect end to her arc and the start of Jon's new story?

First, the geographical argument is a really good one. mostly because it fits with the second bit,
which is: Stoneheart has the memories of Cat but none of the heat, soul and compassion. She is hell bent on one thing and that is revenge. There is plenty of revenge in the riverlands and winter had come. The north is snowed in, and they would still have to travel up the causeway in the neck and the whole kings road. Why would she do that when there are Freys and Lannisters much closer. If she was able to do some soul searching and look at what has happened to westeros then she would be able to make the journey but I do not see her capable of that. Frey death is all she "lives" for 
 

[Marakesh]

21 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

First, the geographical argument is a really good one. mostly because it fits with the second bit,
which is: Stoneheart has the memories of Cat but none of the heat, soul and compassion. She is hell bent on one thing and that is revenge. There is plenty of revenge in the riverlands and winter had come. The north is snowed in, and they would still have to travel up the causeway in the neck and the whole kings road. Why would she do that when there are Freys and Lannisters much closer. If she was able to do some soul searching and look at what has happened to westeros then she would be able to make the journey but I do not see her capable of that. Frey death is all she "lives" for 
 

Why is she flipping that crown in her hands? Also, from Beric we might gather that the ressed experience is monomaniacal, but he wasn't an automaton. Uncat's probably already at his late state even with only 1 death because of the severity, but he did have freewill till the end; ready to move on he choose to raise Cat in spite of Thoros objections. I don't think that Cat giving up her own unlife is unlikely, much less impossible.

[Dorian Martell]

3 hours ago, Marakesh said:

Why is she flipping that crown in her hands? Also, from Beric we might gather that the ressed experience is monomaniacal, but he wasn't an automaton. Uncat's probably already at his late state even with only 1 death because of the severity, but he did have freewill till the end; ready to move on he choose to raise Cat in spite of Thoros objections. I don't think that Cat giving up her own unlife is unlikely, much less impossible.

She is flipping her son's crown because of the pain and anguish she experienced watching him die, which is why she is bringing horrible deaths upon all the Freys she can find. Stoneheart has "free will" in that she is letting her desires drive her and the folks she leads. Her desires are for the deaths of Freys and Lannisters 

[Old Red Priest]

Beric Dondarrion gave the Last Kiss to Lady Catelyn and died.  The fire in Beric was very weak, thus Catelyn resurrection was very poor, barely rising her from the dead.  I believe there is a sequence from pure power of the Lord of Light to the Great Others who can only raise the dead zombies-like things.  Thoros and Beric is somewhere in the middle and Melisandre who has the an intense fire inside her (Mel POV) could do a very powerful resurrection. I doubt there is much of a life force left in Catelyn Tully.  There has not been such an increase of magic power here since the Long Night ended, which might explain why the Red Priests and Priestesses have never seen a resurrection since the Long Night but still practice the ritual of the Last Kiss.

[Makk]

I think it would make for a better story if it was Catelyn fulfilling her dead sons final wish (that Jon becomes his heir). Giving up her own "life" for the boy she hated and feared feels very poetic to me. It symbolises letting go of hate and vengeance, which is what GRRM has led so many to believe she personifies at the moment. I don't know why so many people believe she is mindless or incapable of intelligent thought, her eyes are described as glimmering and she has been sighted moving around the riverlands. Just that final description of her made it sound like what others had said of her was a deliberate misdirection to me.

On the other hand, the geographical distance is a serious problem to the theory. It would probably mean that Jon is left in a dead state for a significant period of time. Catelyns immediate story also seems focused around Jaime and the riverlands at the moment, so unless he is somehow tied up in it, the resolution cannot even begin straight away.

[Trogdor Targaryen]

Supposing it is Cat to revive Jon, I wonder if it is because she had found faith in Robbs will and sees it as the way to avenge her son who named Jon as heir or if she found out Jon's parentage and relented on her resentment of Jon and wanted to do him justice for the harsh treatment she gave him his whole life.

[Lord Asher Forrester]

I said before that both are very plausible but Cat seems more likely to me because otherwise she wouldn't have any big purpose except laying vengence on Freys, Lannisters and Boltons, and thus the whole revival of Beric arc would be kinda pointless, i don't see why to GRRM would got Beric ressurect by a red priest if his arc wasn't anyway related to AA, woul his destiny be to be brought back just to bring LSH to the plot, and then she make her revenge and probabbly dies again, just that? Don't seem very "GRRMish". Of course Cat is not so close to Jon as Mel (phisically and in the plot story), wich balances the things a little. But my bet would still be Cat.

The night is dork and full of errors. (just needed to write that, don't ask me why)

 

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Catelyn hates Jon as much as she hates Theon , so there is no way she would resurrect Jon even if she knew how .

[MostlyMoody]

Stoneheart has nothing to do with Jon's story-arc anymore. She is in the Riverlands to drive along Brienne and Jaime's story.

The geographic argument will be the death of you and your theory. Stoneheart isn't going to travel north, she has no reason to. This isn't the show where people get teleported for story purposes.

That being said Jon will probably come back (although I think it would be better for the story if he stayed dead) through some warging/Mel shenanigans.

[CrypticWeirwood]

I’m unsure we can take Unberic’s pattern in the books as a blueprint for Unjon’s there.

[Endymion I Targaryen]

It would be great if LS was the one to bring Jon back.Unfortunatelly it is difficult for many reasons:winter,long distance,battles in the North.The only way I see her trying to go North,is if she learns about Arya being Stannis's hostage.But probably Brienne and Jaime will inform her that she is not Arya.

Jon's resurrection will be Mel's work.The Pink Letter may drive her to use king's blood to raise the Azor Ahai and accidentally resurrect Jon,the true Azor Ahai.

[MorgulisMaximus]

GRRM has already showed us multiple ways of reviving the dead (wights, Coldhands, Beric, Stoneheart). Hence he could easily come up with more ways.

Notice how Stannis and Jon apparently die just several days apart. What happens if Mel tries to resurrect Stannis who is hundreds of miles away using long-distance resurrection. This would require incredible magic... And sacrifice to Rhollor.

Now assume Jon's corpse is locked up in the ice cells to prevent the wight hazard. Mel sacrifices Shireen to reawaken the Azor Ahai at long-distance. But instead of Stannis reawakening, Jon wakes up in the Ice cells... But nobody knows Jon is there and he's locked inside with other corpses.

[Marakesh]

This is the forum for the novels, so Stannis lives!