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RUSSELL BELL

What if Jon Snow is actually dead dead?

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I know this has been said many times before, and people have various theories as to why he has to come back, however what if thats what George RR Martin wants us to think, No one expected Ned Stark to die after the first season but he does anyway and it confounds all our expectations, what if GRRM deliberately left clues as to point to Jon Snow's return but subverts our expectations by actually leaving him dead, I honestly don't like this route but it would deviate from the expectation of his return and GRRM loves to play on peoples expectation. It would actually be more of a twist if he stays dead at this point. 

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He subverts cliche's somewhat, but he isn't a "do this for the twist" writer. 

And since this is show forum, it's pretty clear from the spoiler's coming out, and their continued harping that "Jon Snow is like totes dead guyz" that he's coming back. And it will be super shocking because there isn't 1/5th the setup of the books either.

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1. There's foreshadowing for Ned's death. 

2. There's plenty of clues that Jon's story is not over.

3. Martin said Jon himself will learn who his parents are, not just readers.

4. That's not subverting anything, it's just being a bad writer, somenthing Martin isn't.

5. Wrong forum. 

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What would be the point of having Jon die before finding out who his parents are?  He's not dead.  

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It would be more of a surprise, since almost everyone believes he will come back.  It would also upset a lot of people.  But if he is dead and not coming back what would most likely happen is that other characters would fill in his role, like how the trailers for this season show Davos stepping up to lead the Night's Watch members.  Or how Sansa appears to be preparing to confront the Boltons and how the Night King seems to be over Jon and is now interested in Bran.  Thus the story wouldn't lose any necessary pieces.  The only big thing would be Jon's parentage, which I don't recall really being presented as of big of a mystery in the show as in the books.  And the Azor Ahai potential, which again isn't as big of a deal in the show.

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6 hours ago, Bran the Shipper said:

It would be more of a surprise, since almost everyone believes he will come back.  It would also upset a lot of people.  But if he is dead and not coming back what would most likely happen is that other characters would fill in his role, like how the trailers for this season show Davos stepping up to lead the Night's Watch members.  Or how Sansa appears to be preparing to confront the Boltons and how the Night King seems to be over Jon and is now interested in Bran.  Thus the story wouldn't lose any necessary pieces.  The only big thing would be Jon's parentage, which I don't recall really being presented as of big of a mystery in the show as in the books.  And the Azor Ahai potential, which again isn't as big of a deal in the show.

The show has made a big deal about Azor Ahai (or Warrior of Light, as they term it in the show).  The entire point of Stannis and Melisandre's arc has been setting up that storyline.  They burned a child over it.  It's one of the few prophecies the show kept from the books.  I don't see how they've underplayed it at all.

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If Jon Snow is dead dead, then this'll be that moment in the life of a series where you should look back and observe "Ah, yeah, there it is, the shark has been jumped".

And I don't even like Jon Snow all that much.

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GRRM only kills off characters when their stories are over. Ned, Robb, Oberyn and Joffrey are examples of this. Jon's story is not over, his death serves a purpose.

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18 hours ago, 239JMFL34109 said:

how about kit harington was living in belfast in winter? you know when and where they film the show. 

He just really loves Belfast. 

 

Kissdbyfire pretty sums it up.

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FWIW, the bookies don't believe that Jon Snow stays dead, either (betsafe.com: resurrected by Mel 1.4:1, wargs into Ghost 2.5:1, brought back by Bran 8:1, turns into a white walker 15:1, remains dead 5:1). And they're putting literal money where their (figurative) mouth is.

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If Jon Snow is dead it will not change anything for me:

  1. The north storyline will be taken by Sansa & Co (and mark my word, this is exactly what will happen in S6)
  2. Many people are taking theories as facts
  3. People saying that Jon's story is not over, they are not the author to decide if the story is over or not
  4. People saying that Jon can't be dead before finding out who his parents are, ok suppose that we will know who are his parents, and then what? they are dead and long gone, this piece of information is so irrelevant to the progression of the story
  5. Jon is a targaryen and he will ride a dragon, again a theory taken as a fact
  6. Jon is dead is bad writing?, they said the same thing when Ned is dead
  7. Finally, last time I've checked the show's name is Game of Thrones and not Jon Snow's adventures, it's about stories not the characters

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19 hours ago, TheLastLibrarian said:

If Jon Snow is dead it will not change anything for me:

  1. The north storyline will be taken by Sansa & Co (and mark my word, this is exactly what will happen in S6)
  2. Many people are taking theories as facts
  3. People saying that Jon's story is not over, they are not the author to decide if the story is over or not
  4. People saying that Jon can't be dead before finding out who his parents are, ok suppose that we will know who are his parents, and then what? they are dead and long gone, this piece of information is so irrelevant to the progression of the story
  5. Jon is a targaryen and he will ride a dragon, again a theory taken as a fact
  6. Jon is dead is bad writing?, they said the same thing when Ned is dead
  7. Finally, last time I've checked the show's name is Game of Thrones and not Jon Snow's adventures, it's about stories not the characters

Yeah man they just filmed that flashback to his mother's dead because he is dead and no longer matters to the story...

i don't think anyone claimed he was the main character? honestly Bran feels likes more like the main character to me. 

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21 hours ago, TheLastLibrarian said:

If Jon Snow is dead it will not change anything for me:

  1. The north storyline will be taken by Sansa & Co (and mark my word, this is exactly what will happen in S6)
  2. Many people are taking theories as facts
  3. People saying that Jon's story is not over, they are not the author to decide if the story is over or not
  4. People saying that Jon can't be dead before finding out who his parents are, ok suppose that we will know who are his parents, and then what? they are dead and long gone, this piece of information is so irrelevant to the progression of the story
  5. Jon is a targaryen and he will ride a dragon, again a theory taken as a fact
  6. Jon is dead is bad writing?, they said the same thing when Ned is dead
  7. Finally, last time I've checked the show's name is Game of Thrones and not Jon Snow's adventures, it's about stories not the characters

You saw that picture. If you did...well no more words needs to be said. Also why to film TOJ for a dead bastard? Or you suggest that someone else was born there? Daeny...show never questioned her parentage and it would be terrible to drop bomb on people without any mystery, build up nothing. Why to show an event that doesn't matter unless that person who was born there is alive or about to play a significant role. Ned, Lyanna, Arthur all dead. Howland might be only one alive.

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48 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

You saw that picture. If you did...well no more words needs to be said. Also why to film TOJ for a dead bastard? Or you suggest that someone else was born there? Daeny...show never questioned her parentage and it would be terrible to drop bomb on people without any mystery, build up nothing. Why to show an event that doesn't matter unless that person who was born there is alive or about to play a significant role. Ned, Lyanna, Arthur all dead. Howland might be only one alive.

Friendzone, I think you have to see it from this person's perspective.

Jon Snow is just a bastard, who can not inherit Winterfell or any title/land. He possess no Dragons or any magical power.  Obviously now that he's dead, he's not even Lord Commander anymore. Even if TOJ reveals Jon is the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar , it doesn't change anything except that Jon Snow is powerless and insignificant as he was in the beginning of the story (except Jon is dead  which makes it worse!!!)  Frankly Jon Snow is just another character in the show whose death won't make any difference to the storyline.

At least that's what I believe TheLastLibarian is thinking. 

I say just let him enjoy the TV show.

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3 hours ago, shk12344 said:

Friendzone, I think you have to see it from this person's perspective.

Jon Snow is just a bastard, who can not inherit Winterfell or any title/land. He possess no Dragons or any magical power.  Obviously now that he's dead, he's not even Lord Commander anymore. Even if TOJ reveals Jon is the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar , it doesn't change anything except that Jon Snow is powerless and insignificant as he was in the beginning of the story (except Jon is dead  which makes it worse!!!)  Frankly Jon Snow is just another character in the show whose death won't make any difference to the storyline.

At least that's what I believe TheLastLibarian is thinking. 

I say just let him enjoy the TV show.

Lol, no one should join the site and have opinions and even specifically state in the opening its how you see it or u will be relentlessly belittled. Yeah you got him, nice.

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