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The Dorne scene has triggered the most inner monologue amongst myself today; mostly because it involved characters dying in show that are alive in book. I've been wondering if the show has given us a look as to what will happen in the book next, or if the characters of Doran, Hotah, and Trystane are so irrelevant for Winds and Dream that they can off them in show for some shocking deaths to open the season. 

I'm gonna go with the former. I think that these characters will likely die soon in book. I've known all along that Swann was a dead man walking with Obara Sand and Hotah as they marched on High Hermitage. I think it is now plausible that we can add Hotah to that death list, as well. If Sand has had any communication with DS, it shouldn't be terribly difficult to off Hotah with the KG knight. Sand and DS are of a like mind, much as Ellaria Sand is in show. They want war on the Lannisters, and anyone who opposes that can die. DS could perhaps play that role in book. Ellaria in book is pretty normal, and lacking that bloodthirsty quality. With no DS in show, clearly that gives room for Ellaria to take the lead.

Or I could just be completely reading too much into this. Either or, Hotah's first chapter or so in Winds should be a treat if the show is any inkling as to what will happen with the leadership in Dorne.

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7 hours ago, briantw said:

Again, unless he magically disappeared from the dock, he got on that boat.  No idea why you're being so obtuse about this when you're very clearly wrong.

If you read what I originally wrote I said he just vanishes - you never see him get on the boat. I said he may have or may not have - but you are jumping to an unproven conclusion because you interpret the editing as showing that. You can not prove I am wrong in this, beyond your interpretation, which will never be proof. It's not being obtuse to be factual and pedantic.

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14 hours ago, lancerman said:

It's obvious why Dorne is the way it is. It has nothing to do with appeasing fans. It has everything to do with fAegon being cut. 

In the books it's kind of obvious at this point that the end goal is Dorne vs Lannisters. In the books it's Arianne marrying Aegon (or at least that's the set up). 

Unfortunately Aegon most likely being fake and probably being a massive added cost to the show (requires a good deal of casting, probably it's own location, would probably add episodes to the series, oh and not to mention it slows down Tyrion's story lol) made it more feasible to just scrap it. Especially since it relies on history that a good deal of the audience isn't paying attention to.

So they needed a War with Dorne. They didn't want Aegon who was the most likely catalyst for that War. So they had to rewrite everything down there and make someone the catalyst. 

Sucks, but realistically if they did it right everyone is here complaining that only about half the content from the last season happened to accommodate. Rather than Dorne having a handful of shitty scenes and is actually getting to the important story point, 

This I agree with - but I think it also proves that fAegon is entirely an after thought, or filler, on GRRMs behalf.

Unlike Dorne - which was established as a location in book 1 and the Martels, which were established in book 1, fAegon never was. The whole Dornish plot in books 4 & 5 is filler - a side plot - nothing more. The story doesn't need any of it and now the show has made that blatantly obvious. This, inturn, makes it obvious that GRRMs plotting, after book 3, has gone distinctly downhill and that there may be no well planned ending for this series, or, at the very least, that he is trying to draw it out and is struggling to come up with meaningful ways to do so.

Would the show be better if it was still based on GRRM novels - undoubtedly yes, I don't think D&D will deny that. Do either D&D or GRRM have a clear, well planned idea of where this is all going - it doesn't look like it any more.

Edited by ummester

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3 hours ago, Daemon I Blackfyre said:

Finally managed to remember my password and log in. This was a baaad, bad first episode.

The Wall: THANK GOD for this part. Davos and Edd were really two of the good things that came of the episode. Davos probably because Liam is so good at playing him, and Edd because he is sticking around (after loosing Pyp and Grenn we really need a character like him). Ghost was cool, I'm sad Jon wasn't already brought back, but hey, there's time.

The reveal of Melisandre really was a brilliant scene. It made me feel so sad and vulnerable just like she is in the scene; Carice Van Houten is really a great actress and she killed it in this ending.

The North: Not much to see. I liked the fact that Brienne and Pod reached Sansa and Theon in just one episode. This could've easily dragged longer than it did. So, all in all cool. Nothing to say on Ramsay except that his "feed her to the dogs" speech was way over the top.

Dorne: No. Just no. They butchered it. They destroyed it. Alexander Siddig was great as Doran and Doran had yet to do something. They killed him, Trystane and Areo, they killed characters that were just introduced, before they could contribute to anything and there is no explanation for it. They insist on the sandsnakes that were universally despised throughout all of S5 and for what? For WHAT? This SUCKS.

KL: I really, REALLY don't like the path they put Jaime on. He seems to be devolving and I have the feeling D&D are going to kill him off soon  and if so, they are going to do it in a ten times worst context, before he can meet Brienne for the last time. Also, where the hell is Bronn?

Essos: Tyrion and Varys filler and Daenerys is going to Vaes Dothrak like everyone expected. Really liked the humor with Moro's Khalassar. Also, too little Arya.

No Bran, no Rickon, no Iron Islands, no ToJ flashback yet. Like I said a poor first episode.

 

Seriously tough, the Dorne scenes made me feel so sick with the show, something I never felt once even through all of S5. It's like Benioff and Weiss did not even try.

After watching the episode, I felt the urge to start reading the books for a second time and never have I wished for The Winds of Winter like to this day. I really hope George is hard at work. 

 

 

I can't agree more. If I could make GRRM to read one comment on this blog, this would be it.

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Og I predicted Brienne will save Sansa JUST IN TIME long ago.

Now from the trailers we have Thorne tearing fown the door. And we will see the wildlings arrive with Edd JUST IN TIME...

D&D are too predictable. The show has lost its thrill.

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Dorne. Dorne, Dorne, Dorne, Dorne, Dorne. 

Completely nonsensical. I can't even put together words to explain how I feel about it. 

Regarding the blood stain. At first, I thought that there was some pattern to be seen, but I honeslty think that Davos just wanted to assess the damage, cause, there was quite a lot of blood there. I couldn't really make out anything except that, it almost looks like ashes (the really dark stains, but it could just be dirty and wishful thinking on my part) 

Also, I feel like Ghost knows something. He's watching over Jon, not in the "my owner is dead and I'm mourning him" kinda way, but like, protecting him. A bit like when your dog sleeps next to you when your sick. Again, it may be wishful thinking on my part.

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What did Davos see in the snow that I didn't? Whatever it was seems to have changed his disposition towards Melisandre and Jon considerably.

Dorne caught me completely off guard. Valar Morghulis, but this seems like D&D either working under constraints we aren't aware of (having to write someone out for some reason or having painted themselves into a corner) or a drunken bet.

Sansa and Theon was well done, I thought, and I was duly relieved when they crossed paths with Brienne and Pod. The vanishing hounds puzzle me a bit...

Ramsey can die at any time.

Varys and Tyrion seemed painfully forced and pointless until the underplayed game-changer that Meereen lost every ship in her harbor.

Dany's plight was not heightened by having a great deal of the menace leavened with wisecracks and comedy routines. Not sure what that was all about.

I am pleased with Arya's bit. The highlighted sounds of passing conversations was well done- the snatch of conversation about Trant's murder was great.

The Mel reveal seems like a ballsy move for the last scene of the season premiere. It had to happen, but it didn't have to involve full frontal. Those boobs will never be clean to me again.

 

 

Edited by hiemal

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12 hours ago, Stannis Lives said:

That makes sense for the show. It also wouldn't contradict the theory in the books that shireen is sacrificed to save Jon since she has already met her demise and at that point Mel is a disposable character. It would be REALLY disappointing if the point of the ending was to show that the necklace will be used to glamour another character into Jon (Davos?) and that would be his "resurrection". 

 

What a horrid idea. I'd rather he stay dead and never appear―in any form—again, and this is coming from some whose only reason for watching the show is the return of Jon Snow.

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On April 25, 2016 at 9:05 PM, hallam said:

It was an important scene. It establishes Sansa as being in charge. Not Theon.

Yeah, idk, they made it a point to show that Sansa had to look at Theon and get his ok before telling Brienne she would accept her.

IMO this scene was developing the avenue for Sansa to take control, but that she didn't know how to yet. She needed to be saved once again, had to ask Theon first if it was ok to take on Brienne, Podrick had to help her with what she was supposed to say, etc.

She's had people controlling her every move and playing "protector" since season 1. It is going to take some time for her to really take charge and make decisions without needing some type of permission. But I think they will play bookends with this and show her here and then show her at the end of the season really taking on a leadership role. At least I hope so because I enjoy rooting for her and think she'd do well.

Edited by The Dames do Moan

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11 minutes ago, The Dames do Moan said:

Yeah, idk, they made it a point to show that Sansa had to look at Theon and get his ok before telling Brienne she would accept her.

IMO this scene was developing the avenue for Sansa to take control, but that she didn't know how to yet. She needed to be saved once again, had to ask Theon first if it was ok to take on Brienne, Podrick had to help her with what she was supposed to say, etc.

She's had people controlling her every move and playing "protector" since season 1. It is going to take some time for her to really take charge and make decisions without needing some type of permission. But I think they will play bookends with this and show her here and then show her at the end of the season really taking on a leadership role. At least I hope so because I enjoy rooting for her and think she'd do well.

Yeah, I'm with you. I think Sansa getting approval from Theon and help from Pod with the vow was to show that she's still not completely in the leadership role, and this season will be leading up to that. I can't wait to see it. Watching Sansa's character growth through the series is one of my favourite parts.

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14 hours ago, BlackwaterPark said:

I don't think the Davos scene looking at the blood was for us to detect a shape on it, but just a resource to remind us there is blood there and Davos noticed that. I don't think it will (or can) be used to revive Jon, but Mel could use it for another purpose. She did want it before, or at least a child/shadow from him.

I assumed similar - that is had been there for a long time.  I thought they were driving home His bled a lot - over a long time - his right up Shiz creek without a paddle. 
 

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30 minutes ago, The Dames do Moan said:

Yeah, idk, they made it a point to show that Sansa had to look at Theon and get his ok before telling Brienne she would accept her.

IMO this scene was developing the avenue for Sansa to take control, but that she didn't know how to yet. She needed to be saved once again, had to ask Theon first if it was ok to take on Brienne, Podrick had to help her with what she was supposed to say, etc.

She's had people controlling her every move and playing "protector" since season 1. It is going to take some time for her to really take charge and make decisions without needing some type of permission. But I think they will play bookends with this and show her here and then show her at the end of the season really taking on a leadership role. At least I hope so because I enjoy rooting for her and think she'd do well.

Agreed.

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26 minutes ago, RadSam said:

Yeah, I'm with you. I think Sansa getting approval from Theon and help from Pod with the vow was to show that she's still not completely in the leadership role, and this season will be leading up to that. I can't wait to see it. Watching Sansa's character growth through the series is one of my favourite parts.

Wouldn't it be natural to ask Theon if she can trust Brienne?

Also, the situation is a little more complicated in that up to that point, Theon and Sansa are more or less equals. He is an ironborn prince, she is the heir to winterfell. At the point where Brienne swears loyalty to Sansa, it is clear that she is now in charge.

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So surely this has to be the third best seasosn premier so far, S1 was of course better and so was S4, but considering that the first episode each season tends to struggle this one was quite decent, the Dorne nonsense excepted. The dialog at the wall was great, Allister gave a great speech, and the Davos stuff worked to, the only thing I didn't like was how they are trying to put a slightly human face on Ramsey. But I doubt that the Melisandre scene meant that she has already cast a revival spell or whatever and that Jon is now alive, it would really be  awaste to not make more of such a scene. The Dorne part unfortunately sucked, I'd rather they had cut that arc off. (We didn't get to see Hotah fight eve once, WTF is that about?)

For a longer analysis, check out: 

https://promethiumwings.wordpress.com/2016/04/25/a-review-of-s6e1-of-game-of-thrones/

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50 minutes ago, hallam said:

Wouldn't it be natural to ask Theon if she can trust Brienne?

Also, the situation is a little more complicated in that up to that point, Theon and Sansa are more or less equals. He is an ironborn prince, she is the heir to winterfell. At the point where Brienne swears loyalty to Sansa, it is clear that she is now in charge.

Once upon a time, it would have been natural. He is Theon again, sure, but he only has been for a very short amount of time. He still betrayed Sansa and her family. But Sansa has almost always had someone to look to and protect her, and at the moment, it's Theon. Hopefully not for long. I'd like to see Sansa finally come into her own and become a leader this season.

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16 hours ago, wArri said:

She could technically be of "Kings Blood" if she really is the Daughter of a Certain Bloodraven...

She looks to young to be his daughter, mayhap his wife or old flame tho..

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The probables is that Doran's master plan hinges on Aegon at the moment. Since Dany obviously blew it with Quentyn. 

And since Aegon, who is probably fake, was cut, that means there is no master plan. So Doran now is the old man who sat by and did nothing like everyone says he is. Arianne was cut because she has no Targaryen to marry. And Hotah is so close to both that it takes him out of the running as well. 

So you are left with the need for a war between two factions who already hate each other, but the main catalyst was probably considered to expensive and convoluted for the audience (who unlike the books, haven't been beat over the head with Targaryen history). 

So you need a new a catalyst for a war. Well a prince just died. Logically his girlfriend and daughters would be pissed. Then you take it from there. 

Not ideal, but it's the sort of thing you can work backwards to figure out why certain things happened. 

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Didn't anyone else think Ramsay's mourning over Miranda's death was very off-character? Come on, he's a total psychopath, he would be mad at someone daring to kill his plaything but he wouldn't be all sad and teary.

Edited by Rhoynar

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1 hour ago, lancerman said:

The probables is that Doran's master plan hinges on Aegon at the moment. Since Dany obviously blew it with Quentyn. 

And since Aegon, who is probably fake, was cut, that means there is no master plan. So Doran now is the old man who sat by and did nothing like everyone says he is. Arianne was cut because she has no Targaryen to marry. And Hotah is so close to both that it takes him out of the running as well. 

So you are left with the need for a war between two factions who already hate each other, but the main catalyst was probably considered to expensive and convoluted for the audience (who unlike the books, haven't been beat over the head with Targaryen history). 

So you need a new a catalyst for a war. Well a prince just died. Logically his girlfriend and daughters would be pissed. Then you take it from there. 

Not ideal, but it's the sort of thing you can work backwards to figure out why certain things happened. 

Yes, I too agree. When will people understand the show cant be that complicated. "Why was that cut? Why was this cut?"

They used another path to reach the same situation.

But the plot holes like teleportation, poor direction like a tiny pocket knife to kill Areo etc were just unbearable.

40 minutes ago, Rhoynar said:

Didn't anyone else think Ramsay's mourning over Miranda's death was very off-character? Come on, he's a total psychopath, he would be mad at someone daring to kill his plaything but he wouldn't be all sad and teary.

Not that off character. The dialogue was bad.

He came back to his character when he said "Feed her to the dogs"

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46 minutes ago, Rhoynar said:

Didn't anyone else think Ramsay's mourning over Miranda's death was very off-character? Come on, he's a total psychopath, he would be mad at someone daring to kill his plaything but he wouldn't be all sad and teary.

Until he was made a Bolton, which I doubt he ever thought would actually happen, she was his girl.  Him still having love for her post being legitimised makes sense to me.  Still not being kind enough to respect her corpse works as well. 

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