poll How would you rate episode 601?

[Criston of House Shapper]

Gave it a 7, it was definitely better than anything we saw last year. The Sandsnake-stuff was awfull, as usual. They killed the wrong characters from that storyline.

[GilletteMace]

this episode felt a bit rushed. there should have been additional scenes of sansa and theon sliding down the wall ( i know, i know ), brienne hearing dogs bark in the distance, leading to her meeting up with sansa and the sand snakes sneaking on board to kill trystane, or better, having jaime taking cold blooded revenge for myrcella.

the thing that bothers me most though is the dryness of sansas and theons clothes, minutes after they waded through the river...

and finally it seems like lt. bashir wasnt made for dorne, if the sand snakes just knew of his mirror universe alter ego... farewell julien.

i pity people feeling shocked or worse disgusted by the look of an old womans body, you obviously never go to sauna. it was the peak of the episode, what other powers does that nasty witch really have?

as a setup episode it was ok, a 7 from me.

Edited April 25, 2016 by GilletteMace

[Greyjoy67]

6 hours ago, Barty said:

 

Boo - what complete and utter shit!!

I gave it a 1, mainly because there is no 0 available. 

Lets divide this into what I liked and what I didnt. Like: The wall - that it.

What I didnt like - everything else. 

1. Why is Roose concerned about fighting the Lannisters?? Cause he lost Sansa? Makes no sense. Why do the Lannisters care about Sansa? Wasnt Roose already betraying the IT by marrying Ramsay to Sansa, considering she is wanted for Joff's murder?? And how on earth is there going to be a Lannister army in the North? If I'm sitting in the North I would be laughing at any southron idiot who thinks he can invade, not fearing him more than Stannis Baratheon. How come he never mentions the other Northern lords??

Some of these criticisms are a little silly. Whilst I think season 5 was the weakest season and this episode a bit of a forgettable one, there was little outright bad about it. I swear only on here do I see such a frequently negative reaction. *sigh*

1. It's the seven kingdoms... of course the Lannisters want to keep the north intact. Roose Bolton has made his ambitions clear several times. 

Other points (formatting confusing me after a while off this board!)

6 hours ago, Barty said:

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 2. This is probably not a valid criticism but I found it oddly out of character for a Stark to say its too cold. 

Sansa isn't some red woman/Targaryen. She's not immune to the cold. Jon Snow found the wall cold when he first went up. Do you think all the Starks just wear fur for lols? 

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3. KL sucks. Jaime has become pre prisoner Jaime again. So all his character development goes down the drain. Why dont D&D just grow his hand back - wouldnt be the least illogical thing they did on this show.

His daughter was just poisoned in case you hadn't noticed. As much as he's been on a journey, there's nothing about his character arc in the show that suggests he's abandoned his loyalty to his family. If anything, he's bolstered by it since he feels he's broken so many vows. I very much doubt he and Cersei's relationship won't change over the season.

 

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4. Dorne. What a letdown. So Doran is not forced into a war he is simply murdered. And apparently he only has one loyal guard, who is a complete idiot and does no weapons checks on anyone coming near his prince. I'm not the greatest fan of Book Doran but at least he had a plan for revenge - they just butchered his character in the show. Literally

I agree the guard's lack of attention to detail was a bit of a waste. It made sense for Doran's story to be more intriguing considering he was only introduced last season. Dorne has been a mess since Oberyn died. Still, with him out the way, at least they can develop some story/motivations/conflict now. 

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5. Is it just me or has Emilia Clarke put on some weight? Also what was the point of that scene? Random filler garbage

What? It was essential! It showed Daenerys as vulnerable and unprotected for the first time in a while. Without her dragons and soldiers protecting her she can be quite literally controlled/sent to do someone who is powerful's bidding. She couldn't cope with being just 'anyone', as she showed (and has frequently shown) by her array of titles. Her sense of entitlement was rightly challenged.

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6. Old Mel - killed my boner. Im downvoting just for that. Why on earth do D&D think we need to see the disgusting old woman naked to get the point Mel is old.

Not sure if this is worth even responding to. The scene was powerful and visual - you were supposed to be repulsed. Red Woman being 'hot' isn't the point and her character doesn't exist for your sexual gratification.

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7. So whats the escape plan for the sand snakes on the ship? Were they even originally on the ship?? I cant remember. Is Cersei going to let the ship go back to Dorne? Arent Dorne and the IT at war now? Is she going to let valuable prisoners of war like their fucking prince and the sand snakes just run away scot-free? Also isnt the ship Dornish? Why did Trystane allow the ship to go to KL? Didnt he realize that once Myrcella is dead the Lannisters will kill him on arrival? You know what Fu*k it - Dorne makes 0 sense. I dont doubt the sand snakes will be able to swim all the way back to Dorne in 1 night. 

No they weren't. We don't know yet... I assume one they discover the culprits there'll be some sort of reckoning. Sure, much of Dorne has been messy but you're finding holes where there aren't any.

 

 

 

[Guest]

The pacing in this show is absolutely awful.  No wonder they only have a few episodes left.  

Dany is a prisoner for all of five minutes and then "Oh, you are a khaleesi, OK, be free"

Jorah and the stud spend two minutes riding to exactly the right two spots in all of Essos, after conversing with no one to get clues.

The writing of the showrunners is simply awful, and HBO needs to move the show to a real writers.

[dbunting]

12 minutes ago, GrapefruitPerrier said:

The pacing in this show is absolutely awful.  No wonder they only have a few episodes left.  

Dany is a prisoner for all of five minutes and then "Oh, you are a khaleesi, OK, be free"

Jorah and the stud spend two minutes riding to exactly the right two spots in all of Essos, after conversing with no one to get clues.

The writing of the showrunners is simply awful, and HBO needs to move the show to a real writers.

I'd say that this was a troll comment If the Daario and Jorah part wasn't so true.

However, the 2nd half of your 1st point is not based on any truth. The show runners want to end it not HBO. Then add to that your take on Dany, she isn't free, they are taking her to Vas Dothrak where she is supposed to be, based on their traditions. Then saying HBO should take this away from D&D? HBO is basically begging them to stay and do more.

[dbunting]

I thought it was a decent opening episode, gave it a 7, 6.5 would have been closer to my thoughts.

I liked a lot of what was happening at the wall. I think Davos jumping to avenge Jon seemed a little quick but I can overlook that. Will have to search for images of the blood pool since it sounds like it may have a dragon image in it.

The hunt for Sansa and Theon was a little clunky especially with the dogs disappearing during the fight.

Melisandre's glamour reveal was unexpected. Now that they have shown it you have to wonder where it's leading.

Arya, pretty much as with the books except it's the waif instead of the KOM

Dorne, well, if the show had an ignore feature Dorne would be on it.

Cersei and Jaime, strange seeing both of them humbled. Last we saw them Cersei was looking down on Jaime and now she is right there with him.

Dany, pretty much makes sense. She is supposed to be in Vas Dothrak as a widow, so them taking her there makes works. Works to get her another chunk of her army since they will follow her once Drogon shows up and she mounts him.

 

Little disappointed in not seeing Bran, again, but I expect we will see a lot of him next episode and some Sam as well.

[lakin1013]

It was a start-up episode and we can see groups coalesce and we can guess what will happen next and to whom.  I have to live with that because that is what was presented to me.  

I still STILL do not get the sand snakes.  Did they climb onto the boat?  Did Trystane never leave the boat?  Was he killed somewhere else and I missed it?  

Why did Sansa have to act like a scared rabbit at the key time?  Why does her story have to go to Theon - why couldn't they both be brave???

One thing I really liked, tho very small, was Davos remembering Ghost and asking Edd a)do you know the wolf?  and b)can you go get him?

Edited April 25, 2016 by lakin1013

[The hairy bear]

I agree that the show could benefit from D&D being replaced after S6. Those past seasons the writing has been the weakest part of the show, and signs of fatigue are showing. It's very unlikely to happen, though, since the show is still a very successful hit.

[The Northern Scholar]

3 hours ago, Fat Pink Master said:

If people voting 1 are trolls, then people voting 10 are trolls too (there's no objective critique that can call this episode perfect), so it evens out.

There are plenty of valid criticisms to make about this episode that merit a low score. It's not simply trolling. Inconsistent characterization, plot holes, and bad writing are things we can judge about this show on its own merits. D&D want to take the show off into their own AU fanfiction realm? Fine. But at least be consistent within your own universe.

[Aerys III of his name]

Don't kill me I give it a 7, if it was just about relation between books and tv series it would be a 1/10, but I learned to separate the two of them as different parallel universes. I was afraid to see a boring episode but the wipe out the Martells made the day.

[Barty]

1 hour ago, Greyjoy67 said:

Some of these criticisms are a little silly. Whilst I think season 5 was the weakest season and this episode a bit of a forgettable one, there was little outright bad about it. I swear only on here do I see such a frequently negative reaction. *sigh*

1. It's the seven kingdoms... of course the Lannisters want to keep the north intact. Roose Bolton has made his ambitions clear several times. 

Other points (formatting confusing me after a while off this board!)

 

1. Yes they (Lannisters) do want to keep the 7 kingdoms intact - but the whole Northern plot has been very weak and I was venting my frustration. Roose betrays Robb - makes the entire north hate him. Why? In the show Im not sure we're told but in the books it was because Robb's position became weak, his war was unwinnable and the Lannisters were offering rich rewards. So what is his next step?? He betrays the IT by marrying Sansa to Ramsay. Now he has made enemies out of the North and the IT. His position just became a thousand times weaker than Robb's. So Roose is just an idiot.

2. I agreed it was not a valid criticism - it just felt out of place. If anything it should have been Sansa who leads Theon into the water - they had a chance to show her being strong but instead they waste it.

3. Its not Jaime's lack of loyalty to his family that I find wrong. Its his sudden ambition to take back whatever was taken from them (We'll take everything iirc) - thats a season 1 Jaime line. Season 6 Jaime has known war, suffering and grief just like the books - Take back everything is the response I expect from Cersei not Jaime. As for losing his daughter - It happened weeks ago, he barely knew her and going by his response to Joffrey's death this death shouldnt have affected him either. 

4. I have no idea where they are heading with Dorne. I mean I do know where (war with the Lannisters) but it makes no sense to me. There is no Arrianne here or Quentyn. The Sand Snakes are bastards, Ellaria is an upjumped whore. Who is going to rule Dorne? Who will the Dornish lords follow? This type of situation if logic was followed would have led to one result - civil war in Dorne over who gets to rule. But I'm sure there is no such thing as Dornish lords in the show. No Dornish noble houses. Or if they are they will happily follow their ruler's brother's whore. 

5. Maybe so. I didnt like that scene personally.

6. Why am I supposed to be repulsed? Whats the point? Just seeing her being old isnt enough? She has to be old and nude? I'm sorry but to me it just felt like adding unnecessary shock value. I dont need gigantic visual cues to let the shock set in.

7. Dorne is just crap. I have literally nothing to add. 

 

I'm glad some people enjoyed the episode. I dont think everyone should agree with my points - just giving my opinion. Feel free to disagree. 

[FireWinds]

I gave it a 3 

- Sansa and Theon thing was ok, didn't mind her forgetting the vows as it shows she has never had anyone swear an oath to her to protect her and also shows her trying to remember herself and dignity after all that's happened. 
Didn't like how they were literally running fr their lives, dogs at their heels and Sansa's like "Oh no, no that water is too cold" Seriously you'd run through fire to get away from all that. 
Didn't like how Theon literally ran around the corner and expected the guards to be like "Ok then lets go" I mean not at least trying to run off in the other direction and getting knocked down by them? And the dogs?! They took one look at Brianne and thought "f%#k THAT's a woman?!" and ran off Lol. 

- Didn't really like the Davos scene, he seems very chipper for the people who were as close to him as family (Shereen and Stanis) had just died, also thought the "I'm locking myself in this room" had a teenage girl vibe
   Ser Alliser Thorne: *Dad comes to knock on the door* "Come out dear"
   Davos: "We'll think about it! And I want Mutton"
   Ser Alliser Thorne "Ok then we'll give you some time and space love" 

- Finding that ring in the middle of nowhere in tall grass was amusing. 

- Dany meh, I guess it got us from A to B with going to hang with the widows. 

- Dorne/Sandsnakes I was upset with the lackluster death of the guard, expected at least a nice fight scene there to show what he could really do. Trystane, ok first I thought "Oh ok so he's gone back to Dorne" but then he's painting the death eye stones for Myrcella so I have no idea where he was supposed to be? Trystane (again the lack of sadness) had me yelling at the screen "Now Why would you ever turn your back on someone that's trying to kill you?!" Then Bam! the old spear through the head. 
Now the Sandsnakes are just disappointing, they could have cast Anyone for those rolls, women with actual fighting skills would have been nice, and it wouldn't take much to bring in a "Cool, Badass" vibe for them, but they just leave them as a bunch of silly bickering little girls. Boo-urns! 

- I agree with some of the other posts about Cercei, she is supposed to be always right and justified, didn't think she thought of herself as a monster, also expected more sadness, maybe breakdown at the sight of the boat with the body. 

- Melisandre was good, I enjoyed that. At first I to thought it was a Dany vision as someone else said. But then I was sad that her ol perky tit's weren't genuine. Haha

The rest was ok for me, but as it ended it had me yelling "Is that all?!" at the end, yes I am a joy to watch tv with..  ;P 

[Howdyphillip]

4 hours ago, Fat Pink Master said:

If people voting 1 are trolls, then people voting 10 are trolls too (there's no objective critique that can call this episode perfect), so it evens out.

 I am going to have to disagree about the high side of things here. I gave the show a 10/10 and I quite often do this. That score doesn't mean that the show is perfect, it just means that it is among the top tiers of shows that I have ever watched. Again, I grew up dreaming of swords and dragons. To have a show that has this much budget, that is based on books I have absolutely adored for close to two decades is so fulfilling to me that I can watch every week in amazement. 

 At this point, the majority of people rating this show here is giving it a 1. I really just have to laugh at that. Clearly, with any objectivity at all, this is not among the worst TV shows ever made, but week after week, people flood in here and try to out do one another in reasons why they just hate it. 

Edited April 25, 2016 by Howdyphillip

[Charlie Hustle]

I gave it an 8. Every 1st episode of every season is a recap of whats going on from the previous season. At least we had some major killings in this episode.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, dbunting said:

I'd say that this was a troll comment If the Daario and Jorah part wasn't so true.

However, the 2nd half of your 1st point is not based on any truth. The show runners want to end it not HBO. Then add to that your take on Dany, she isn't free, they are taking her to Vas Dothrak where she is supposed to be, based on their traditions. Then saying HBO should take this away from D&D? HBO is basically begging them to stay and do more.

Really?

So how did Brienne find Sansa and Theon?  How did Brienne know they were even outside the castle? No leadup, she just finds them.

Varys and the imp go for a walk, then all the ships burn. Why did they burn? Why wasn't their a fight at the ships to stop them burning? Did the sailors and captains just go "Sure, burn my ships"

Dany is no longer truly aprisoner, we can agree to disagree on that.  Dothraki treat slaves awfully and she will now be treated like a queen after 3-5 minutes of on screen "captivity"

How did Ghost get back to Davos?  Did the Watch just let him be taken and moved?

When did the sand snakes plan the coup? Why didn't anyone seem to care the king was just killed before their very eyes - and NOTHING. And no one runs to tell the prince about it, and the sand snakes just walk in and kill him?

Do these things strike you as realistic? 

Good writing builds to a climax, this show just runs from climax to climax with no rest in between.  It is poor writing, whether you like it or not.

 

[The Northern Scholar]

5 minutes ago, Howdyphillip said:

 I am going to have to disagree about the high side of things here. I gave the show a 10/10 and I quite often do this. That score doesn't mean that the show is perfect, it just means that it is among the top tiers of shows that I have ever watched. Again, I grew up dreaming of swords and dragons. To have a show that has this much budget, that is based on books I have absolutely adored for close to two decades is so fulfilling to me that I can watch every week in amazement. 

 At this point, the majority of people rating this show here is giving it a 1. I really just have to laugh at that. Clearly, with any objectivity at all, this is not among the worst TV shows ever made, but week after week, people flood in here and try to out do one another in reasons why they just hate it. 

And I have to continue rolling my eyes at people who call this a good show. On its own merits, adaptational decisions disregarded, it suffers from bad writing, inconsistent characterization, and plot holes.

To call it a top tier show is an insult to shows like The Wire and Sopranos.

[bb1180]

I gave it a 7.  Barely. 

It worked well enough as a setup for the rest of the season.  The Castle Black scenes were mostly good,  as was the Sansa/Theon/Brienne sequence. There were a few noticeable problems in these,  but nothing I couldn't overlook.  Much of the rest felt like glorified filler.  Dorne is still a mess with no apparent way to tie it back to the books,  and that scene on the ship with Trystane was absolutely awful.  And the scene between Daenerys and Khal Moron was asinine,  yet another (partial) contrived plot gift culminating in the whole 'oh shit,  we're really sorry about what we said about you!' routine.  At this point,  I'm actively hoping that she gets eaten by one of the dragons. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, The Northern Scholar said:

And I have to continue rolling my eyes at people who call this a good show. On its own merits, adaptational decisions disregarded, it suffers from bad writing, inconsistent characterization, and plot holes.

To call it a top tier show is an insult to shows like The Wire and Sopranos.

And Deadwood.

Someone said they used the word "lousy" is this episode.  Was that Davos?  I missed it, but if so...yikes!

[The Killer Snark]

I gave it 8. Solid, if hardly revelatory or spectacular. The Theon and Sansa, and Deanarys scenes were good, but nothing else stood out much in terms of advancing the overall plot. But poor Daenaerys. Not only does she have some guys discuss if she has 'white pussy hair' when it is obvious she doesn't because she has black eyebrows, but now she's condemned to live her life among a bunch of discarded old fogeys when presumably she only wants to jump the khal because he has an interesting beard. PS - The Dorne coup was not convincing, but I've given up on expecting D and D to treat the whole Dorne storyline either faithfully or sensitively by now.

Edited April 25, 2016 by The Killer Snark

[tallTale]

I thought the show deserved a 7.

There is just so much material that of course they will have to rush and severely cut story lines. 

The dorne stuff has always been terrible, but hopefully it sets up some interesting Lannister-Sand snake battles.