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Discussing Sansa XX: Run, Sansa, run...

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5 minutes ago, messem said:

True. But Show!Sansa was never that cold towards Jon as BooK!Sansa was. Might be that I simply can't remember it but I think she never was.

Book Sansa was not cold to Jon, she just acknowledged the fact that he is her half-brother, something that was probably fueled by her septa. Neither TV nor Book version show a lot of interaction. We don't even see them interact and only know about Jon remembering what Sansa told him about the girls once.

9 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

Oddly, Sansa is not one of my favorite characters, but she is the one I have hopes for.  This episode dimmed my hopes.  

The writing is an undoubted mess, but I feel this may be a starting point with Sansa getting more moments like this throughout the season and her getting better and better. But given lack of consistency in writing, I have to say, it is pointless making any sort of reasonable predictions.

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It has been established on multiple occasions that Pod is smart (Dornish sigils, ect with Tyrion). He is from a noble family and has been a squire forever. Why wouldn't he know the oath that his boss is hoping to hear... After the fight with the Hound, Brienne tells Pod that they are going to start training on horsemanship and swords. Makes sense that he would be better than he was, but still not amazing. Seemed like appropriate improvement. 

The 40 ft drifts of snow near the wall that allowed Theon and Jeyne to survive in the books were somehow unaffected by the melting that allowed the army to move... However, the comment Theon makes to the hunting party about being alone because Sansa broke her leg and was left to die in the snow feels like a nod to the book readers.

Sansa has never been taught to physically defend herself. Cat cowered the same way when the mountain clans attacked in season 1. Her behavior is in character and I would have been disappointed if she suddenly tried to become a bad ass. That would have been poor writing! 

 

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11 minutes ago, messem said:

True. But Show!Sansa was never that cold towards Jon as BooK!Sansa was. Might be that I simply can't remember it but I think she never was.

Book Sansa wasn't really cold to Jon,  either.  We know she set herself above Jon in conversations among her friends because he was a bastard,  but that type of behavior is typical of early-book Sansa.  She was snobbish in general.  We don't otherwise know the nature of their interactions at Winterfell,  except that they did interact.  

As for differences with Show Sansa and how she views Jon or Theon or whomever,  in fairness,  translating a character's book thoughts into a TV format is a difficult thing to do,  especially when you only have a few minutes per episode to do it.  

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11 hours ago, El Guapo said:

Well let's see. For the last few weeks Sansa has been brutalized by Ramsey on a nightly basis. She just jumped off a wall and somehow manged to survive. She was running through the snow getting by dogs and men on horses.  Had to cross an icy river and then was almost captured again before Brienne and Pod saved her.  And people are shocked that she might have had some difficulty remembering a couple of lines of an oath?

Yes, because at that moment in time, meeting Brienne again and deciding to accept Brienne in to her service, Sansa is supposed to have a moment of clarity to make those decisions. A sign her Starkness is still strong within her. Sansa is supposed to have her "lady armor" and in her story, book and presumably show, her lady armor is supposed to strengthen from her experiences.

Her being physically led by Theon (I do love Theon and Alfie Allen), then hesitating at the water, then stumbling over her lady armor words did not set her up very well in the first episode.

We are supposed to be witnessing her rising back to power and it felt more like Sansa S2.

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21 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Yes, because at that moment in time, meeting Brienne again and deciding to accept Brienne in to her service, Sansa is supposed to have a moment of clarity to make those decisions. A sign her Starkness is still strong within her. Sansa is supposed to have her "lady armor" and in her story, book and presumably show, her lady armor is supposed to strengthen from her experiences.

Her being physically led by Theon (I do love Theon and Alfie Allen), then hesitating at the water, then stumbling over her lady armor words did not set her up very well in the first episode.

We are supposed to be witnessing her rising back to power and it felt more like Sansa S2.

Let's hope she's slowly getting there to be more relevant and in the position of power. I have my doubts because we heard that before...but i give them benefit of the doubt. If she gathers Northern lords, finally stop being pawn for Littlefinger and actually maybe even be QitN. Rickon is dead( I think Ramsey was the one in the trailer speaking  like "you like games little men". Just like Myrcella was...that is their logic. To bring them them back and kill them for shock value. Everything is for shock value these days. Look at Doran, Ellaria and Sand Snakes. It was sad but hilarious at the same time.

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Come on now, guys.

Sansa's been raped every night since her wedding. She's just fallen from a 25 m. wall, she's been running for hours, maybe even days, and she just crossed a frozen river.

If you expected her to put up a fight against armored men, and those dogs...well, I would call that bad writing.

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10 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

Come on now, guys.

Sansa's been raped every night since her wedding. She's just fallen from a 25 m. wall, she's been running for hours, maybe even days, and she just crossed a frozen river.

If you expected her to put up a fight against armored men, and those dogs...well, I would call that bad writing.

Not only that but apparently after all she has been through it is unrealistic that she stumbled over a few words of an oath too.

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She continues to be a weak willed, progressively stupid victim.

She marries Ramsay for revenge, then tells Myranda to kill her, then is saved by Theon, now she's more afraid of cold water than her psycho husband and has to be convinced by Theon to keep going, despite Pod having just almost been killed, he's got more presence of mind to recall the oath than Sansa.  Not that I care really, I assume based on Sophie Turner's comments she will soon miraculously become the boss.ass.bitch later this season.

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25 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

Come on now, guys.

Sansa's been raped every night since her wedding. She's just fallen from a 25 m. wall, she's been running for hours, maybe even days, and she just crossed a frozen river.

If you expected her to put up a fight against armored men, and those dogs...well, I would call that bad writing.

Theon's been abused by Ramsay for years and still had the spirit and strength to jump from that same wall, running the same distance as Sansa (despite being mutilated), crossed that same frozen river...and still had it in him to be a diversion and try to lead Ramsay's men away from her. He had to help her every step of the way. 

And she sat there like a bump on a log and did NOTHING. 

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What I'm curious about now is where will Sansa go? She's north of winterfell I believe, so that leaves out riverrun. She has horses now, so she could make a break for Castle black, or Pike, or hell even Dragonstone. if Stannis is revealed to be alive, he could help set her up at dragonstone.

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2 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

Theon's been abused by Ramsay for years and still had the spirit and strength to jump from that same wall, running the same distance as Sansa (despite being mutilated), crossed that same frozen river...and still had it in him to be a diversion and try to lead Ramsay's men away from her. He had to help her every step of the way. 

And she sat there like a bump on a log and did NOTHING. 

Sure, all of that is true. But I wasn't talking about that.

I was talking about the "fight" Sansa should have put up, as I've read. Which is totally dumb. Theon didn't even move a muscle as well. Those were...6? armored Boltons, a few of them on horse, and the dogs.

But, well, I think it would be easier if you told me what Sansa should have done in this case.

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2 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

Sure, all of that is true. But I wasn't talking about that.

I was talking about the "fight" Sansa should have put up, as I've read. Which is totally dumb. Theon didn't even move a muscle as well. Those were...6? armored Boltons, a few of them on horse, and the dogs.

But, well, I think it would be easier if you told me what Sansa should have done in this case.

Not be a total victim who can't summon up her own agency even to escape Ramsay Bolton,  but has to be led along like a dumb child, by the man whose penis was cut off and who was tortured to the extent he lost his own identity.  Maybe show a little courage.

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6 minutes ago, The Northern Scholar said:

What ever happened to the Sansa that boldly trekked around the snowy bridges of the Eyrie making sure Sweetrobin was ok? You don't think those were stressful situations?

Yes, they were. But you can't compare them to this. In fact, Theon and Sansa should be dead already, that's the true nitpick; as soon as they cross that river...they are dead. 

I cannot really complain about Sansa being "passive" this time. Sure, I would have liked if she had shown a little courage after Theon tells her they must split ways, but it's a minor complain. Considering I'd be dead on her situation...I can't really say anything.

12 minutes ago, tallTale said:

 

What I'm curious about now is where will Sansa go? She's north of winterfell I believe, so that leaves out riverrun. She has horses now, so she could make a break for Castle black, or Pike, or hell even Dragonstone. if Stannis is revealed to be alive, he could help set her up at dragonstone.

Castle Black is her destiny. She may not reach it, but I think she'll get just after Jon is brought back. Episode 2 preview also shows Ramsay talking about attacking Castle Black from the south; he believes she's going there.

Stannis is dead. People should start assuming ShowStannis died at Brienne's hands. Not that I like it, but it's how it happened.

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13 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Not be a total victim who can't summon up her own agency even to escape Ramsay Bolton,  but has to be led along like a dumb child, by the man whose penis was cut off and who was tortured to the extent he lost his own identity.  Maybe show a little courage.

So she should show no effects whatsoever over the trauma she has suffered at the hands of Ramsey?  I don't get it. I thought one of the complaints the last few months was that D&D were going to totally forget this and have Sansa go into full boss ass bitch mode right out of the gate?

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I thought she did a great bit of acting when delivering the lines of the oath. I thought it helped emphasize that she was so far removed from ever thinking that someone would serve her that she couldn't even remember the words to feeling empowered by it by the end of her part of the oath. A theme that is important because she is the one that has to rally the north against the Boltons. 

At the start her face said "WTF is going on" but by the end it was all "yeah I can get used to this."

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16 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

 

Oh I have no doubt she's going to do another 180 when she becomes the boss.ass.bitch according to Sophie Turner.

Why is she is worse shape than Theon?  And the "effect" of her marriage is to make her fear cold water more than her abusive husband?  And to forget the words to the oath of service?  

It's not a huge deal since Show Sansa has been extremely stupid since last season, but the show keeps talking about her being empowered and yet continues to show her as too weak and passive to even attempt to stay alive.  She's a damsel in distress, she's not taking any type of control.

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I liked Sansa's scenes, to my own surprise. And I don't get the flak she gets for not remembering her vows, I mean in a moment like this I wouldn't be probably in the best state to recite lines either.

Sophie and Alfie were outstanding.

Well, I don't treat her storyline like canon, but I'm looking forward for more, especially between Sansa and Brienne ('You know, that time when I lost your sister, oh, and killed the Hound...').
 

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