Discussing Sansa XX: Run, Sansa, run...

[Arya_Stormborn]

2 hours ago, dogprivilege said:

I think the debate over the river is people getting into semantics tbh. like yeah, they probably should have probably gotten hypothermia but it wasn't as egregious of a plot hole as some people are making it out to be. 

Cold water can kill you within minutes. At the very least they are going to lose all of their toes. (Theon already doesn't have his, ha, ha!)

[JonSnow4President]

9 hours ago, Arya_Stormborn said:

I just don't see it. She's been on a growth trajectory the entire time. Sure, it's happened in fits and starts, and there have been some relapses, but that's real life. 

Can you elaborate as to how you think she's grown?  Because I don't see anything besides actor aging.  

11 hours ago, dogprivilege said:

I think the debate over the river is people getting into semantics tbh. like yeah, they probably should have probably gotten hypothermia but it wasn't as egregious of a plot hole as some people are making it out to be. 

Given there's almost an industry standard about downplaying hypothermia, it doesn't bother me nearly as much as other aspects of the scene.  Yeah, it's there, but I handwave it with a laugh about 90% of the time I see it on screen.  If this was a lake, it'd probably hit that 10%, but it doesn't bother me all that much.

[DesertRose]

I think Sansa will go to River Run.  It's really the only place left for her.  I don't think she can go back to the Eryie at this point, but possible. 

[JonSnow4President]

7 minutes ago, DesertRose said:

I think Sansa will go to River Run.  It's really the only place left for her.  I don't think she can go back to the Eryie at this point, but possible. 

You mean the place that should be under Frey control, or at least under seige, given our last Riverland information. Who knows, maybe the Frey's are lazy.

[Wolves Die Young]

I think people are overexaggerating the coldness of the river also due to Sansa's reaction.

The water was half melted. It can't have been that cold out there, so I don't think the weather conditions were deadly. Sansa and Theon running also kept their body heat up, and neither of them had their head under the water which is the most vulnerable part for cold in human body. 

[Cas Stark]

The cold water pales when compared to the jump of at least 4 stories and neither of them have a scratch on them, not a broken arm, broken rib, broken leg, twisted ankle, nothing.  No effects whatsoever.

[JonSnow4President]

6 minutes ago, Wolves Die Young said:

I think people are overexaggerating the coldness of the river also due to Sansa's reaction.

The water was half melted. It can't have been that cold out there, so I don't think the weather conditions were deadly. Sansa and Theon running also kept their body heat up, and neither of them had their head under the water which is the most vulnerable part for cold in human body. 

A "cold" pool is upper 70's to low 80's.  I've swam in 55-60 degree water for 2 hours when our heater went out, and the majority of the swim team was blue and constantly shivering despite the air temperature in the building being 70 degrees and a large amount of physical activity.  With water at around 35 degrees, you're looking at unconsciousness within 15 minutes from the cold.  With no way to get dry or warm, and soaked clothes in sub-freezing weather, they would be dead within a couple hours at best.   

So Sansa is actually right about it being too cold.  If they stripped and kept their clothes dry while crossing, they'd stand a much better chance, especially if they could dry off before putting their clothes back on.

[The Little Sister]

On 4/25/2016 at 9:18 PM, Pies are coming said:

 

In any case, I'd love to have her dog disappearing device. Once the dog handler let loose the dogs, those dogs should have attacked Sansa. Instead, they were gone to wherever bitches go.

I thought the same thing 

[evita mgfs]

Just now, The Little Sister said:

I thought the same thing 

No - I thought that with her warg nature, she should have repelled the dogs!

But she did lose her wolf Lady, so mayhaps her warg thing is rusty.

[The Little Sister]

She's never learned or been shown to warg anything.  I think it's probably a little far fetched to think she could somehow warg an entire pack of dogs without realizing it.  I don't think that scene had any secret warging, just an oversight by the writers.  I thought the whole thing was ridiculous.

[evita mgfs]

6 minutes ago, The Little Sister said:

She's never learned or been shown to warg anything.  I think it's probably a little far fetched to think she could somehow warg an entire pack of dogs without realizing it.  I don't think that scene had any secret warging, just an oversight by the writers.  I thought the whole thing was ridiculous.

You mean like Arya and Bran were taught how to warg and skinchange?  Yeah poor Sansa has no teacher - no 3EC or Faceless Man to help her discover those powers innate to the blood of the Stark offspring.

But seriously, I was joking about the dog tracking device employed for this scene.

At some point, I hope Sansa is empowered with the magic [a metaphor for inner fortitude]  she owns so that she does not have to be rescued by others.

[MrsStocksey]

Just a thought....can Sansa swim? I'd assume not, I don't remember it being mentioned in the book or show. She was taught to be a 'lady' whilst growing up so I can't imagine she spent much time swimming outside in-between her embroidery classes.  Just something I thought of when they came to the freezing, fast flowing river....crap I hope she doesn't drown!

 

[Colonel Green]

52 minutes ago, MrsStocksey said:

Just a thought....can Sansa swim? I'd assume not, I don't remember it being mentioned in the book or show. She was taught to be a 'lady' whilst growing up so I can't imagine she spent much time swimming outside in-between her embroidery classes.  Just something I thought of when they came to the freezing, fast flowing river....crap I hope she doesn't drown!

Catelyn was an avid swimmer, so I expect she'd have wanted the girls to know how to.  I don't know if it's ever mentioned, though.  Winterfell has hot springs that could conceivably be used for swimming, depending on depth.

[dantares83]

regardless of what people say, i do think that this is the only nice scenes in episode 1

[Xarkar]

I dont see what all the fuss is about with her forgetting a line.

 

She just submersed herself in freezing water, and before that she was likely already exhausted.

To be honest, I am surprised that she can even stand up.  Being cold is one thing.  Being WET and COLD is something completely different.

 

[dantares83]

On 4/25/2016 at 9:08 PM, McAssey said:

At some point Sansa must confront Theon about his (assumed) murder of her little brothers and of the other innocent people at Winterfell.  When she learns that her brothers are probably still alive, I assume she will want to search for them.  Perhaps with Nymeria's help?

she already knew her brothers are alive and Theon killed some other innocent farm boys. I think that is the only reason why she looked at him for approval. 

[JonSnow4President]

2 minutes ago, Xarkar said:

I dont see what all the fuss is about with her forgetting a line.

 

She just submersed herself in freezing water, and before that she was likely already exhausted.

To be honest, I am surprised that she can even stand up.  Being cold is one thing.  Being WET and COLD is something completely different.

 

It's the consistent pattern of shitting on the book character. Her one main strength has been taken away from her, leaving an empty shell. I agree it's entirely understandable within this one scene.  But it's so much more than this one scene.

[Xarkar]

5 minutes ago, JonSnow4President said:

It's the consistent pattern of shitting on the book character. Her one main strength has been taken away from her, leaving an empty shell. I agree it's entirely understandable within this one scene.  But it's so much more than this one scene.

Sometimes you need to hit rock bottom to rise up.

She hit rock bottom, and now with Brienne will begin her rise to power.  I suspect she will be more ruthless because of what she has gone though which is probably a good thing.  

[JonSnow4President]

10 minutes ago, Xarkar said:

Sometimes you need to hit rock bottom to rise up.

She hit rock bottom, and now with Brienne will begin her rise to power.  I suspect she will be more ruthless because of what she has gone though which is probably a good thing.  

So sometimes a woman just needs to be raped in her home by the man who killed her family to begin her rise to power?  

And you wonder why people complain about that?

[Mladen]

26 minutes ago, dantares83 said:

regardless of what people say, i do think that this is the only nice scenes in episode 1

And that just speaks about the writing for this episode. If this was the only nice thing, what the hell are we watching?

The problem with Sansa, as I have stated, is that writers of the show simply have no idea who their version is supposed to be. That is why we have inconsistent shifts from Darth Sansa to rape victim, from manipulative to completely dependent. The problem is not that she could have froze to death or that dogs magically disappear, the problem is in this character that feels as empty as Turner's face sometimes (which in many occasions was deliberate)

I have been asking what is the point of this. The only answer I could provide is that perhaps they are trying to gradually make Sansa into a power-house. Perhaps this will be the season of her listening to many of these oaths, and this one serving us as just the first step.