Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

The Scabbard Of the Morning

Who got shafted worse? Doran Martell or Stannis Baratheon

Recommended Posts

30 minutes ago, Gannicus said:

The real question is who got shafted more, Stannis or the Sand Snakes. 

I think what D&D did to Stannis was one of the worst decisions in tv history. Then I saw what they did to the Snakes.

Killing your daughter to win a battle or killing your uncle to start a war. They have turned them into a bad cartoon. Evil girls with, with atrocious dialogue, terrible acting, and motivation that is not even close to relatable. I mean seriously, they hate the Lannisters for what the did to their aunt and then father.  So what better way to avenge them than kinslaying. Are you F ing kidding me!?!

Doran was the only interesting part of Dorne. "Why don't we get rid of him?" "Great idea, the sheep love shock value." Yeah they didn't make him as conniving, but he was believable and his motivations clear.

 

Eh Sand Snakes were lame and unintelligent characters in the books too. They just decided to make them even worse. It isn't nearly as bad as turning an interesting and complex character like Stannis into a straight up villain.

I'd say Doran got it worse. He did absolutely nothing in the show. Even though Stannis spent an entire season doing nothing on Dragonstone , he still did some pretty cool things in the show.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Definitely Doran. The show only did a character assassination of Stannis; they ruined every character from Dorne (except Oberyn) for no conceivable reason whatsoever. Burnt it all to a crispy unrecognizable mess; may it never come back again. I actually laughed when Hotah, Doran and Trystane got theirs just because each of the agents of their deaths was a ridiculous choice. Death shouldn't be comic relief.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doran, obviously. Stannis was good on the show, while Doran as utterly pointless. At least they got that crap out of the way, now only for Frankenmountain to hopefuly kill the skanks 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Obviously Doran. He did absolutely nothing. He just sat on his ass looking at the gardens and...you know, it sounds just like book Doran, to be honest. 

I'm gonna go with Stannis because he has way more fans than Doran, is up there with the most popular characters in the series, and they turned him into a bore and a villain. And they dragged out his misery for four seasons. At least Doran had a clean, swift death. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im going to go with Stannis but, what they did with Doran was absolutely dogshit. Heres my reasoning; Stannis is a character whos been around since S2 and always showed glimpses and hints of promise but never been used to his full potential outside big battle sequences. Everytime we had scenes with him on dragonstone all of them were about how fanatical and how much of a zealot he was. None of his book material or dialogue made it there to flesh out his more sympathetic side. 

So here comes the battle against the wildings (which was pretty shittly done) and people start to think, hmm maybe hes got more to him? S5 rolls around. Starts out promising for his character, see more potential then as the season goes on weird little things happen that ring red flags. Oh theres no lords of the North who care or exist. Oh Mance is actually dead? Theres no political advice from Jon to Stan. Davos still hasnt left to gather more support. Wait hes taking The women of his life with him into war huh? 

Then 5x9 happens full of contrivences and bullshit a mile long all culminates into an irredeemable choice which utterly destroys any sembalance or meaning the character has left witht the mainstream audience. Suddenly everyone wants him dead and rather a rapist/murdere/sadist and son of the man who killed the north's king is people's champion. 

No no no no no no this wrong im telling myself. Hes in much more dire circumstances and still holding by TWoW. He must have a plan at least for 5x10 right? 

Nope 5x10 rolls around and its utter horse shit that only this show could get away with. Stannis loses everything in the span of one episode like an outside force in the universe stepped into personally punish him, hes not reflecting on his choice or what hes done. He insulting walks up to WF unorganised and gets fucked by the Boltons in the most humiliating way, hes dead right? Nope hes bleeding out. And Brienne of fucking Tarth who hid while everyone died fighting comes out and sentences him her King and lord paramount of the stormlands to die becase hurrrr Renly danced with me and I dont know how the feudal system works. She goes for the killing blow and fucking hell they cut away and give certain people false hope hes still alive (not me). All because it was too "Gratutious".

Are you fucking kidding me???? You decided after all these seasons to cut away from a main character's death because you pruned out yet in the same episode Arya goes Tarintino on a dude, Ramsay's stupid girlfriend gets an on screen death and theres full frontal nudity!!! This served as one of the final humiliations for the character.

Off season we start to hear rumblings of this batttle of the bastards and how awesome it will be. As the show has clearly set this rivalry up right? Anyway something I notice is that its beginning to sound like they're retreading the winterfell content from S5 and adding in all the extra stuff they cut plus more from Adwd and TWoW. So S6x1 rolls in and this seems to be coming to fruition from what we've heard and we find Davos is suddenly so loyal to Jon's corpse hes willing to die for him.......... Wat. Where the hell has this come from??? So hes all like theres still hope Mel has power etc. Yet he hasnt tried to find out what happened to Shireen or Stannis so he can mourn them or delusionally getting Mel to bring them back. But no Muh Jon is more important even though hes dead and Thorne admits what he did and also Brienne faces no consequences for abandoning Sansa over Stannis and gets to be knighted on top. what the fuck is going on? 

I cant say i look forward to seeing Davos on screen anymore. As I know hes going to be grovelling to all the northern lords who magically and conviently exist again this season for the action hero's cause. Ontop of this im sure he'll find out what Mel did but forgive her because she rezzed Jon and shes good now and that he feels sorry for her. I can just imagine all the bullshit that im going to have to live with from this show as a Stannis fan because Show fans think its Jon who saves the North from Wamsay with Davos because Stannis was an evil daughter burning incompetent commander.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doran did nothing on the show, kind of like how he is in the books. The only thing we missed out on where seeing all of his stupid plans blow up in his face. I really don't understand how some people consider this guy wise for doing nothing, but to each there own I suppose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, matsuki said:

Is Stannis dead? Seems too weird to have left that out and have Roose specifically ask if Ramsay saw "the man" who cut him down...nobody saw anyone cut him down.

 

13 hours ago, SevasTra82 said:

I still find it odd they that killed Stannis off-screen.  They could have at least shown his head getting lopped off or something.

Makes me wonder....

Agree that he could be alive the whole thing is too strange. 

6 hours ago, RoamingRonin said:

Doran. At least Stannis got to be awesome a few times - at the Wall, Blackwater - but Doran didn't get to do anything.

Yes Doran didn't get a chance. . But stannis still got butchered too in a more drawn out fashion. 

5 hours ago, Ruhail said:

Im going to go with Stannis but, what they did with Doran was absolutely dogshit. Heres my reasoning; Stannis is a character whos been around since S2 and always showed glimpses and hints of promise but never been used to his full potential outside big battle sequences. Everytime we had scenes with him on dragonstone all of them were about how fanatical and how much of a zealot he was. None of his book material or dialogue made it there to flesh out his more sympathetic side. 

So here comes the battle against the wildings (which was pretty shittly done) and people start to think, hmm maybe hes got more to him? S5 rolls around. Starts out promising for his character, see more potential then as the season goes on weird little things happen that ring red flags. Oh theres no lords of the North who care or exist. Oh Mance is actually dead? Theres no political advice from Jon to Stan. Davos still hasnt left to gather more support. Wait hes taking The women of his life with him into war huh? 

Then 5x9 happens full of contrivences and bullshit a mile long all culminates into an irredeemable choice which utterly destroys any sembalance or meaning the character has left witht the mainstream audience. Suddenly everyone wants him dead and rather a rapist/murdere/sadist and son of the man who killed the north's king is people's champion. 

No no no no no no this wrong im telling myself. Hes in much more dire circumstances and still holding by TWoW. He must have a plan at least for 5x10 right? 

Nope 5x10 rolls around and its utter horse shit that only this show could get away with. Stannis loses everything in the span of one episode like an outside force in the universe stepped into personally punish him, hes not reflecting on his choice or what hes done. He insulting walks up to WF unorganised and gets fucked by the Boltons in the most humiliating way, hes dead right? Nope hes bleeding out. And Brienne of fucking Tarth who hid while everyone died fighting comes out and sentences him her King and lord paramount of the stormlands to die becase hurrrr Renly danced with me and I dont know how the feudal system works. She goes for the killing blow and fucking hell they cut away and give certain people false hope hes still alive (not me). All because it was too "Gratutious".

Are you fucking kidding me???? You decided after all these seasons to cut away from a main character's death because you pruned out yet in the same episode Arya goes Tarintino on a dude, Ramsay's stupid girlfriend gets an on screen death and theres full frontal nudity!!! This served as one of the final humiliations for the character.

Off season we start to hear rumblings of this batttle of the bastards and how awesome it will be. As the show has clearly set this rivalry up right? Anyway something I notice is that its beginning to sound like they're retreading the winterfell content from S5 and adding in all the extra stuff they cut plus more from Adwd and TWoW. So S6x1 rolls in and this seems to be coming to fruition from what we've heard and we find Davos is suddenly so loyal to Jon's corpse hes willing to die for him.......... Wat. Where the hell has this come from??? So hes all like theres still hope Mel has power etc. Yet he hasnt tried to find out what happened to Shireen or Stannis so he can mourn them or delusionally getting Mel to bring them back. But no Muh Jon is more important even though hes dead and Thorne admits what he did and also Brienne faces no consequences for abandoning Sansa over Stannis and gets to be knighted on top. what the fuck is going on? 

I cant say i look forward to seeing Davos on screen anymore. As I know hes going to be grovelling to all the northern lords who magically and conviently exist again this season for the action hero's cause. Ontop of this im sure he'll find out what Mel did but forgive her because she rezzed Jon and shes good now and that he feels sorry for her. I can just imagine all the bullshit that im going to have to live with from this show as a Stannis fan because Show fans think its Jon who saves the North from Wamsay with Davos because Stannis was an evil daughter burning incompetent commander.

Agree with all of this except the part about nor looking forward to see davos. I'm disappointed he dosnt seem upset about Stannis and shireen buthe that may unfold in time .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's true what you guys are saying about the Snakes being pretty lame in the novel too. Should be cool, but are shallow and boring characters. Yet kinslaying adds another layer of shabbiness.

As for Stannis vs Doran it depends if you prefer a quick early death or long drawn out torcher.

The weird thing is the writers have done some great things. They have moments of genius and I'm sticking with it. But head scratchers are becoming more frequent. Have they lost the fire? Or are they truly lost Theon Greyjoy? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, matsuki said:

Is Stannis dead? Seems too weird to have left that out and have Roose specifically ask if Ramsay saw "the man" who cut him down...nobody saw anyone cut him down.

It's just Dramatic Irony.

Roose asks who "the man" was, assuming (reasonably) that one of his men got the the blow in.  Meanwhile we the audience know it was not only not one of his men, but not a man at all.  It was a woman.

So we smirk to ourselves because we know there's something the bad guys don't know.

And perhaps we as an audience make the inference that the Boltons don't know about Brienne operating in their area/under their nose at all.  Which of course they still don't because all of their troops who ran in to her are, um, not going to be filing any more reports :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a tough one. I honestly can't answer it.

I did not think I would ever be as enraged as I was with the last two Stannis episodes and then this happened.

At least Dillaine and Siddig can move on to better things now.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, LordPathera said:

Not excuses, facts. Viserys was an idiot and Doran had no way of knowing or accounting for this before Viserys committed suicide via Khal Drogo and Daenerys placed appearance over political and military gain and Doran can't control that.

Viserys was screwed up because Doran abandoned him for fourteen years to wander around.  Dany rejects his stupid plans not because of appearances, but because of politics and military gain.  Seen how Hizdar is nothing special, but by marrying h she secures peace in Meeren thus allowing her the means to focus on those armies posed against her.  Contrast, Quentyn offers nothing but four green boys and some vague promise that is thousands of miles away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Minsc said:

Viserys was screwed up because Doran abandoned him for fourteen years to wander around.  Dany rejects his stupid plans not because of appearances, but because of politics and military gain.  Seen how Hizdar is nothing special, but by marrying h she secures peace in Meeren thus allowing her the means to focus on those armies posed against her.  Contrast, Quentyn offers nothing but four green boys and some vague promise that is thousands of miles away.

If Doran had taken in Viserys and Daenerys, Robert would have found out and Dorne gets hammered. Also, it wasn't Doran's fault that Viserys ignored all warning signs and went with Khal Drogo's khalasar rather than stay in Pentos with Illyrio. That's completely on Viserys and his suicidal idiocy. (Explain how threatening your pregnant sister in front of her husband, whose also the most powerful warlord in the region, in a place that forbids the drawing of weapons or shedding of blood, isn't suicidal stupidity.)

Securing peace? War was coming to Meeren one way or another, marrying Hizdar merely delayed the inevitable. Quentyn offers a real opportunity for Daenerys to actually take a shot at the Iron Throne at a time when her opponents are diminished, exhausted and fighting each other. Hell, someone tried to poison Daenerys after making "peace" and she only survived thanks to Strong Belwas who only survived because he's very fat and very awesome.

However, the implication seems that Daenery's decision was tipped towards rejection because of Quentyn's plain looks. Something Barristan Selmy does not doubt: "She wants fire, and Dorne sent her mud. You could make a poultice out of mud to cool a fever. You could plant seeds in mud and grow a crop to feed your children. Mud would nourish you, where fire would only consume you, but fools and children and young girls would choose fire every time."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stannis. Alexander Siddig got shafted for being an excellent actor cast in the creative abortion known as the television series Game of Thrones.

But in all fairness Stannis was raped. He was allowed none of his best moments from the books, basically had almost all of his characteristics transferred to Davos, had his genuinely touching relationship with Davos turned into a horrific case of Stockholm syndrome. They are true heterosexual life partners (though the internet certainly likes to imply different ;) ) in the books. In the show I---the biggest Stannis fan this side of E-Ro---am wondering why the hell he keeps on trying to be Stannis' man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, LordPathera said:

If Doran had taken in Viserys and Daenerys, Robert would have found out and Dorne gets hammered. Also, it wasn't Doran's fault that Viserys ignored all warning signs and went with Khal Drogo's khalasar rather than stay in Pentos with Illyrio. That's completely on Viserys and his suicidal idiocy. (Explain how threatening your pregnant sister in front of her husband, whose also the most powerful warlord in the region, in a place that forbids the drawing of weapons or shedding of blood, isn't suicidal stupidity.)

Securing peace? War was coming to Meeren one way or another, marrying Hizdar merely delayed the inevitable. Quentyn offers a real opportunity for Daenerys to actually take a shot at the Iron Throne at a time when her opponents are diminished, exhausted and fighting each other. Hell, someone tried to poison Daenerys after making "peace" and she only survived thanks to Strong Belwas who only survived because he's very fat and very awesome.

However, the implication seems that Daenery's decision was tipped towards rejection because of Quentyn's plain looks. Something Barristan Selmy does not doubt: "She wants fire, and Dorne sent her mud. You could make a poultice out of mud to cool a fever. You could plant seeds in mud and grow a crop to feed your children. Mud would nourish you, where fire would only consume you, but fools and children and young girls would choose fire every time."

Doran is one of the few lords to have different contacts in Essos, yet rather than use any of those to help Viserys and Dany he just abandoned them to find their own way.  Even if Viserys turned out to be Aegon the Conqueror/Daemon Blackfyre/Baelor Breakspear reborn he has zero reasons to reward Doran at all seeing how he provided no assistance at all.  Even if Viserys didn't go with Drogo he wasn't going to anywhere how he is too much of a spaz for anyone to follow.

False, agreeing to marry Hizdar worked to secure peace within the city for at least sixty days during which she can make plans about her other enemies.  Not even close, Quentyn offered Dany nothing but his doofy self and his doofy friends.  Quentyn brought no army nor any navy besides some vague promise which isn't even true in the long run.  Agreeing to marry Quenytn does shit to help her seeing how she is stuck in Meeren and wishes to resolve that first before moving on elsewhere.  Moreover, as mentioned seeing how his numbers for Dorne's army is a straight up lie they would do little to assist her in taking Westeros.  Especially, seeing how if she went his idiotic plan she would basically have to abandon all of her army and people in Meeren as again he brought no ships to transport her forces.  Likely a plot by Shavepate to cause a scare to justify harsher actions against his enemies.

Selmy is a dipshit and bitter then seeing how he directly saw how she settled for mud over fire to secure peace for her people when she chose Hizdar over Daario.  At best, maybe he believes she might have consider Quentyn's dipshit offer if he brought something to the table.  And seeing how his offer was completely without merit maybe that could have been some fire to win her offer.

Dany made the absolutely right choice in refusing Doran's stupid marriage offer.  Especially, seeing how if Doran wants revenge he practically has to settle with supporting her (not knowing about Aegon) or support the grandson of the man that order the rape and murder of his sister.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Eucratides_Megas said:

 He was allowed none of his best moments from the books,

What were those moments that they skipped?  In fact, they added quite a deal of moments that worked to better humanize him such making so he actually cared about his daughter rather than just neglecting her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Ruhail said:

Im going to go with Stannis but, what they did with Doran was absolutely dogshit. Heres my reasoning; Stannis is a character whos been around since S2 and always showed glimpses and hints of promise but never been used to his full potential outside big battle sequences. Everytime we had scenes with him on dragonstone all of them were about how fanatical and how much of a zealot he was. None of his book material or dialogue made it there to flesh out his more sympathetic side. 

So here comes the battle against the wildings (which was pretty shittly done) and people start to think, hmm maybe hes got more to him? S5 rolls around. Starts out promising for his character, see more potential then as the season goes on weird little things happen that ring red flags. Oh theres no lords of the North who care or exist. Oh Mance is actually dead? Theres no political advice from Jon to Stan. Davos still hasnt left to gather more support. Wait hes taking The women of his life with him into war huh? 

Then 5x9 happens full of contrivences and bullshit a mile long all culminates into an irredeemable choice which utterly destroys any sembalance or meaning the character has left witht the mainstream audience. Suddenly everyone wants him dead and rather a rapist/murdere/sadist and son of the man who killed the north's king is people's champion. 

No no no no no no this wrong im telling myself. Hes in much more dire circumstances and still holding by TWoW. He must have a plan at least for 5x10 right? 

Nope 5x10 rolls around and its utter horse shit that only this show could get away with. Stannis loses everything in the span of one episode like an outside force in the universe stepped into personally punish him, hes not reflecting on his choice or what hes done. He insulting walks up to WF unorganised and gets fucked by the Boltons in the most humiliating way, hes dead right? Nope hes bleeding out. And Brienne of fucking Tarth who hid while everyone died fighting comes out and sentences him her King and lord paramount of the stormlands to die becase hurrrr Renly danced with me and I dont know how the feudal system works. She goes for the killing blow and fucking hell they cut away and give certain people false hope hes still alive (not me). All because it was too "Gratutious".

Are you fucking kidding me???? You decided after all these seasons to cut away from a main character's death because you pruned out yet in the same episode Arya goes Tarintino on a dude, Ramsay's stupid girlfriend gets an on screen death and theres full frontal nudity!!! This served as one of the final humiliations for the character.

Off season we start to hear rumblings of this batttle of the bastards and how awesome it will be. As the show has clearly set this rivalry up right? Anyway something I notice is that its beginning to sound like they're retreading the winterfell content from S5 and adding in all the extra stuff they cut plus more from Adwd and TWoW. So S6x1 rolls in and this seems to be coming to fruition from what we've heard and we find Davos is suddenly so loyal to Jon's corpse hes willing to die for him.......... Wat. Where the hell has this come from??? So hes all like theres still hope Mel has power etc. Yet he hasnt tried to find out what happened to Shireen or Stannis so he can mourn them or delusionally getting Mel to bring them back. But no Muh Jon is more important even though hes dead and Thorne admits what he did and also Brienne faces no consequences for abandoning Sansa over Stannis and gets to be knighted on top. what the fuck is going on? 

I cant say i look forward to seeing Davos on screen anymore. As I know hes going to be grovelling to all the northern lords who magically and conviently exist again this season for the action hero's cause. Ontop of this im sure he'll find out what Mel did but forgive her because she rezzed Jon and shes good now and that he feels sorry for her. I can just imagine all the bullshit that im going to have to live with from this show as a Stannis fan because Show fans think its Jon who saves the North from Wamsay with Davos because Stannis was an evil daughter burning incompetent commander.

The bit about the universe personally punishing Stannis is the bit that makes me angriest. Renly was a traitor who was perfectly happy killing his brother to secure a crown. The rest of his crimes in the series are D&D invention or evasion (Alester Florent is burned because "he kept the idols" instead of being a traitor who tried to broker a peace with the Lannisters behind Stannis' back).

What's more all of his positive character building moments are gone. Just gone

Then the last two episodes of Season 5 happens and it plays out like some sort of Karmic "justice". Since fucking when?! This show has become a nihilist exercise in hammering home that nobody's crimes are punished. Unless you're a character the show-runners don't like. Then suddenly there is a moral universe and you have to pay.

D & D are the George Lucases of the television world. They soared on good luck and the brilliance of others until they soared a little too high and were exposed as hacks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Minsc said:

Doran is one of the few lords to have different contacts in Essos, yet rather than use any of those to help Viserys and Dany he just abandoned them to find their own way.  Even if Viserys turned out to be Aegon the Conqueror/Daemon Blackfyre/Baelor Breakspear reborn he has zero reasons to reward Doran at all seeing how he provided no assistance at all.  Even if Viserys didn't go with Drogo he wasn't going to anywhere how he is too much of a spaz for anyone to follow.

False, agreeing to marry Hizdar worked to secure peace within the city for at least sixty days during which she can make plans about her other enemies.  Not even close, Quentyn offered Dany nothing but his doofy self and his doofy friends.  Quentyn brought no army nor any navy besides some vague promise which isn't even true in the long run.  Agreeing to marry Quenytn does shit to help her seeing how she is stuck in Meeren and wishes to resolve that first before moving on elsewhere.  Moreover, as mentioned seeing how his numbers for Dorne's army is a straight up lie they would do little to assist her in taking Westeros.  Especially, seeing how if she went his idiotic plan she would basically have to abandon all of her army and people in Meeren as again he brought no ships to transport her forces.  Likely a plot by Shavepate to cause a scare to justify harsher actions against his enemies.

Selmy is a dipshit and bitter then seeing how he directly saw how she settled for mud over fire to secure peace for her people when she chose Hizdar over Daario.  At best, maybe he believes she might have consider Quentyn's dipshit offer if he brought something to the table.  And seeing how his offer was completely without merit maybe that could have been some fire to win her offer.

Dany made the absolutely right choice in refusing Doran's stupid marriage offer.  Especially, seeing how if Doran wants revenge he practically has to settle with supporting her (not knowing about Aegon) or support the grandson of the man that order the rape and murder of his sister.

Again, the poisoned scorpions and the continuing presence of the Anti-Dany coalition clearly indicate that Dany's peace was a temporary illusion. Quentyn's offer seemed less hopeful, but the result would have been better than the quagmire that she's in right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Minsc said:

What were those moments that they skipped?  In fact, they added quite a deal of moments that worked to better humanize him such making so he actually cared about his daughter rather than just neglecting her.

Ahem  "I have a duty to my daughter, to the Realm, even to Robert..."  

"I swore that day I'd never serve any Gods so evil as to kill my parents...the septons would prate on and on about how all goodness flows from the seven, but all I ever saw it was made by men"

"I nursed an injured hawk and named it Proudwing..."

"There is no man fitter...then we will make new lords...I will bring justice to Westeros..."

"I know the cost....I looked and saw a king consumed by the crown he wore. Do you think I need you to tell me what that meant? Or the red woman?"

"I had the cart before the horse. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne..."

"Half my army is made of unbelievers. I will have no burnings. Pray harder."

"I will save your sister if I can..."

"A true king pays his debts..."

"You may hear I am dead...if so you will continue fighting and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne..."

So, given all the times he references his daughter---including acknowledging that he's very fond of Edric Storm and would hate to make her sad---I never doubted he loved her in his own Stannis way. But all of these quotes, mere tiny fragments of all the positive Stannis scenes dumped along the way, might have made the tiniest iota of difference in how his character was portrayed. Just saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, LordPathera said:

Again, the poisoned scorpions and the continuing presence of the Anti-Dany coalition clearly indicate that Dany's peace was a temporary illusion. Quentyn's offer seemed less hopeful, but the result would have been better than the quagmire that she's in right now.

The poison that Belwas ate was probably a plot by Shavepate in order to push her into approving his plans to attack the other Masters that are his enemies. The fact that she still has enemies outside doesn't mean it was a temporary illusion.  instead, it wasn't some magical golden ticket to immediately resolve anything.  The city falls apart as she has fled the city and Selmy is left in charge and Shavepate basically manipulates in messing up the peace by arresting Hizdar.   IIRC, the Meerenese Blot blog details how her actions were working successfully to secure peace in Meeren and that blog has gotten the nod of approval from Martin.

No the result, would be her stuck in even worse quagmire with her throwing away her chief means of securing peace with Meeren for piss poor offer that doesn't net her anything.  Quentyn's offer does nothing to secure peace in Meeren nor does to assist her in getting to Westeros.  Instead, it requires her abandoning her entire army, people, and basically everything that she cares about for a vague promise of assistance in Westeros with a force that doesn't actually exist.  Dorne's actual army isn't even half of what he promised it is was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×