Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

The Truth

So where in the heck was Trystane?

Recommended Posts

And to put a bow on it because he said it better than ever could; courtesy of Sir Loin Steak in another thread:

Faullaria and the Sand Fakes plan to honour and avenge Oberyn (who died in a trial by combat that he volunteered for, while attempting to avenge his sister). Creatively it all makes sense:

Step 1: Meet up in the desert to remind each other of who you are by recounting your back stories. Spend a long time burying some guy up to his neck, then kill him.

Step 2: Incompetently attempt to assassinate an innocent girl who is arranged to marry Oberyn's nephew. Do this in Doran's gardens, where he and his guards can clearly see what you are doing.

Step 3: Having failed miserably and being temporarily imprisoned, randomly decide to cure the mercenary you poisoned. Said mercenary is literally the only person protecting Larry Lannister while in Dorne.

Step 4: Play slapsies to pass the time.

Step 5: Have Faullaria administer an extremely conspicuous poison kiss, don't worry about Larry Lannister.

Step 6: Have said poison take a very short-time to take effect, so you'll know she's dead before the ship she's leaving on gets any distance whatsoever. You have honoured Oberyn's memory by not murdering a little girl in Dorne which he really seemed to take pride in; Dornish waters are of course completely exempt from this.

Step 7: Remind Faullaria to take the antidote at the last possible second, once visible brain damage symptoms start to occur (don't worry, her mind is already so broken no-one will notice the difference).

Step 8: Dispatch two of the Sand Fakes to infiltrate the ship that left while you all stood around watching. Take weapons that are terrible for fighting in a confined space.

Step 9: Wait for Larry Lannister to leave the ship, hope he leaves Trystane onboard. Yes, wait until the ship reaches King's Landing.

Step 10: Murder Oberyn's nephew, your cousin.

Step 11: Wait for Doran to receive word that Myrcella has been murdered. Kill the messenger because THIS IS PORNE! Note: this should allow the Lannister forces the maximum time possible to ready themselves.

Step 12: Stab Doran's only loyal bodyguard. Don't worry he may look huge and apparently trains super hard, but he'll drop like a sack of rocks immediately; he'll die faster than it took to dust a vampire on Buffy.

Step 13: Murder Oberyn's cherished brother (preferably after he reminisces about what a great guy he was). Congratulations! You have now wiped out the Martell family, just as Oberyn Martell would've wanted?

Step 14: Don't worry about Doran's other guards, they won't bat an eye at his dead brother's paramour and bastard daughter brutally slaughtering their Prince. You may consider replacing these men, on second thought, no definitely keep them. As Doran dies taunt him with how you will/have murdered his son too.

Step 15: Having murdered the venerable Martell family (and possessing no army of your own) assume control of Porne - this is unquestionably how the feudal system worked so expect no trouble. The other lords won't be a problem because they don't seem to exist.

Step 16: Begin Phase 2, where assuming you didn't just plunge Porne into civil war, you can finally start working towards getting revenge on the Lannisters, probably...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, JonSnow4President said:

So wait, the Sand Snakes intercept the ship at sea?  

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Not to mention it's 'nieces' not 'neices', lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Masha said:

Umm, I would think most of nitpicking comes from book readers, most of unsullied, while having some issues regarding the plot itself, don't require to know why didn't Sand Snakes explain just how they appeared in his ship in excruciating detail before starting a fight with Trystane or have Brianne and Pod give a speech how they managed to find Sansa just in time.

The only issue they noticed is vanishing of hounds in the fight and realizing that Dorne plot was cut short due to bad reception of last season's Jaime's adventures. 

No.. Absolutely wrong.

How can you even take something like that as a fact? Fuck no. I have never read even a single page of the books.

I wouldt care if they ignored it all together. Like Gendry.

But showing nonsense, absolute nonsense and saying only book readers complain is horrible.

IF you decide to show it, you show it with a good (at least believable) plot...

Why the fuck they rush these? Already short 40min episodes.And I hear they are shrinking next season to 7episodes.

I loved the show. How could such an awesome show become like this?

(Note: i supported the sansa rape, burnings etc. But i fucking hate ccharacter assassinations)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who cares how they got there?  The important thing was the coup.  Name one TV show that doesn't make it's viewers have to assume certain things or suspend disbelief at times.  The ship could have been on it's way back to Dorne and the Sand Snakes ship intercepted it.  Just because the Trystane scene was directly after the one with Doran, doesn't mean they happened at the exact same time.  

It's actually really funny to me that a plot which ever one seems to hate is getting even more hate due to not having MORE scenes to better explain unimportant things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Morky_Pep said:

Do we even know if Trystane is in Blackwater Bay ? Why is Trystane left on the ship? I

Yes, we do know that, because immediately preceding the scene there is an establishing shot of the ship in Blackwater Bay.  And he's still on the ship because it would be way safer from the Lannisters than setting foot in the Red Keep.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, StarksNTargs said:

Who cares how they got there?  The important thing was the coup.  Name one TV show that doesn't make it's viewers have to assume certain things or suspend disbelief at times.  The ship could have been on it's way back to Dorne and the Sand Snakes ship intercepted it.  Just because the Trystane scene was directly after the one with Doran, doesn't mean they happened at the exact same time.  

It's actually really funny to me that a plot which ever one seems to hate is getting even more hate due to not having MORE scenes to better explain unimportant things.

People hate everything.

People hate fictional rape- D&D, lets make Elaria all powerful. Those who complain will like that.

People complain about Dorne - D&D, lets just finish everything off.

No! It's that kind of casual approach that ruined everything. They are not sitting around a campfire telling children's stories and altering it when the child begins to cry...

It is good to take viewers opinions. But above all a good story teller must be confident of the decisions he's made.

Fans dont like Dorne - Ok, lets ignore it then. Let the mountain kill Trystane. Then ignore the Done plot altogether... Everyone is happy...

Im surprised how people are so "haha. Dorne suuucked. Good.. Kill him. Kill her. Hahaha. Good dorne is over. Haha."

Do you place no importance for the story AT ALL?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me it was a plot hole, the product of a rushed arc that the producers apparently want to end at all costs. Also, the chapter had a lot of POV: Arya, Davos, Melidracula, Cersei, Margaery, and they tried to stuck them all in a short chapter (45 minutes). All the episode was rushed to me. Probably just wanting to end the previous season.

S06E01 actually felt like the brochure of S05.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, StarksNTargs said:

Who cares how they got there?  The important thing was the coup.  Name one TV show that doesn't make it's viewers have to assume certain things or suspend disbelief at times.

If it was only "at times" it would be alright, but we had to make assumptions and/or suspend disbelief constantly last episode.

Why did they just leave Jon's body out in the open ?
Why is Davos suddenly a Jon-loyalist, friendly towards Mel and doesn't mention Stannis or Shireen even once ?
Why is everybody just buying Thornes bullshit ?
How did Brienne find Sansa ?
Why is Podrick suddenly a capable Fighter ?
Where did the tracking hounds go ?
How can the queen stay imprisoned by the faith for weeks/months with nobody giving a fuck ? Because she maybe lied a little to protect her brother ?
We have to believe, that Ellaria somehow convinced ALL the royal guard to betray Doran without Hotah noticing.
We have to pretend there is reason in revenging Oberyn by wiping out the Martell family.
How did the Snakes get on Trystanes ship ?
Why was Trystane still on that ship ?
Tyrion and Varys can walk the streets of Mereen safely and unnoticed because they are dressed like merchants ? There must be a lot of Mereenese merchants that are either large bold white men or Dwarfs with a huge scar on their face.
Why are grafittis in Mereen written in the common tongue/Westerosi ?
Jorah/Daario just happen to find the ring in the middle of nowhere.
The Dothraki have no idea who Dany is but on the other hand don't immediatly rape the beautiful young woman they find.
The Khal laughs all her titles away (including "Khaleesi") but when she mentions being the widow of Khal Drogo he immediatley believes her.
Where's Drogon ?
Arya and the Waif can beat each other up in the middle of the street in broad daylight and nobody cares. No one trying to break this up ? Not even some nosey spectators ?
Why does Thorne give the Jon loyalists this unneccesary long amount of time to surrender ?
Why is Davos the spokesperson and not one of the brother who must have known both Jon and Thorne much better ? 
And why are they all so keen on protecting Jons body anyway ? (We all know why, but there is no apparent motivation for the characters in-verse)
And finally we get the obvious plot hole of Mel already having taken her nacklace of in a earlier episode.

 

Name one (serious) TV show that challenges a viewers suspension of disbelief that much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Rhollo said:

If it was only "at times" it would be alright, but we had to make assumptions and/or suspend disbelief constantly last episode.

Why did they just leave Jon's body out in the open ?
Why is Davos suddenly a Jon-loyalist, friendly towards Mel and doesn't mention Stannis or Shireen even once ?
Why is everybody just buying Thornes bullshit ?
How did Brienne find Sansa ?
Why is Podrick suddenly a capable Fighter ?
Where did the tracking hounds go ?
How can the queen stay imprisoned by the faith for weeks/months with nobody giving a fuck ? Because she maybe lied a little to protect her brother ?
We have to believe, that Ellaria somehow convinced ALL the royal guard to betray Doran without Hotah noticing.
We have to pretend there is reason in revenging Oberyn by wiping out the Martell family.
How did the Snakes get on Trystanes ship ?
Why was Trystane still on that ship ?
Tyrion and Varys can walk the streets of Mereen safely and unnoticed because they are dressed like merchants ? There must be a lot of Mereenese merchants that are either large bold white men or Dwarfs with a huge scar on their face.
Why are grafittis in Mereen written in the common tongue/Westerosi ?
Jorah/Daario just happen to find the ring in the middle of nowhere.
The Dothraki have no idea who Dany is but on the other hand don't immediatly rape the beautiful young woman they find.
The Khal laughs all her titles away (including "Khaleesi") but when she mentions being the widow of Khal Drogo he immediatley believes her.
Where's Drogon ?
Arya and the Waif can beat each other up in the middle of the street in broad daylight and nobody cares. No one trying to break this up ? Not even some nosey spectators ?
Why does Thorne give the Jon loyalists this unneccesary long amount of time to surrender ?
Why is Davos the spokesperson and not one of the brother who must have known both Jon and Thorne much better ? 
And why are they all so keen on protecting Jons body anyway ? (We all know why, but there is no apparent motivation for the characters in-verse)
And finally we get the obvious plot hole of Mel already having taken her nacklace of in a earlier episode.

 

Name one (serious) TV show that challenges a viewers suspension of disbelief that much.

I cant believe a $100+ Million show gets so many passes yet smaller shows are expected to be utterly perfect just to recieve 7/10s etc. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Rhollo said:

If it was only "at times" it would be alright, but we had to make assumptions and/or suspend disbelief constantly last episode.

Why did they just leave Jon's body out in the open ?
Why is Davos suddenly a Jon-loyalist, friendly towards Mel and doesn't mention Stannis or Shireen even once ?
Why is everybody just buying Thornes bullshit ?
How did Brienne find Sansa ?
Why is Podrick suddenly a capable Fighter ?
Where did the tracking hounds go ?
How can the queen stay imprisoned by the faith for weeks/months with nobody giving a fuck ? Because she maybe lied a little to protect her brother ?
We have to believe, that Ellaria somehow convinced ALL the royal guard to betray Doran without Hotah noticing.
We have to pretend there is reason in revenging Oberyn by wiping out the Martell family.
How did the Snakes get on Trystanes ship ?
Why was Trystane still on that ship ?
Tyrion and Varys can walk the streets of Mereen safely and unnoticed because they are dressed like merchants ? There must be a lot of Mereenese merchants that are either large bold white men or Dwarfs with a huge scar on their face.
Why are grafittis in Mereen written in the common tongue/Westerosi ?
Jorah/Daario just happen to find the ring in the middle of nowhere.
The Dothraki have no idea who Dany is but on the other hand don't immediatly rape the beautiful young woman they find.
The Khal laughs all her titles away (including "Khaleesi") but when she mentions being the widow of Khal Drogo he immediatley believes her.
Where's Drogon ?
Arya and the Waif can beat each other up in the middle of the street in broad daylight and nobody cares. No one trying to break this up ? Not even some nosey spectators ?
Why does Thorne give the Jon loyalists this unneccesary long amount of time to surrender ?
Why is Davos the spokesperson and not one of the brother who must have known both Jon and Thorne much better ? 
And why are they all so keen on protecting Jons body anyway ? (We all know why, but there is no apparent motivation for the characters in-verse)
And finally we get the obvious plot hole of Mel already having taken her nacklace of in a earlier episode.

 

Name one (serious) TV show that challenges a viewers suspension of disbelief that much.

You Sir, deserve to have been part of Game of Thrones..

Even though I'm part kidding, D&D must appoint one person to thuroughly read their script and give a list of problems.

Then they must attempt to fix them and modify the story or add scenes.

The way D&D currently write the show is like how I used to write essays in school. Start with something big in mind and wind it up in a dick way because I was too lazy :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, robasp2 said:

You Sir, deserve to have been part of Game of Thrones..

Even though I'm part kidding, D&D must appoint one person to thuroughly read their script and give a list of problems.

Then they must attempt to fix them and modify the story or add scenes.

The way D&D currently write the show is like how I used to write essays in school. Start with something big in mind and wind it up in a dick way because I was too lazy :)

That sad part is, you don't really have to be thorough to find these issues.

I was watching the episode with 3 friends (who are genuine fans of the show) and we were discussing about 2/3 of these live or immediately after.

It has actually become a fun game, who spots the plothole first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rhollo said:

If it was only "at times" it would be alright, but we had to make assumptions and/or suspend disbelief constantly last episode.

Why did they just leave Jon's body out in the open ?

As an example?  Because it wasn't a priority?  Thorne wasn't out to cover it up.

Quote

Why is Davos suddenly a Jon-loyalist, friendly towards Mel and doesn't mention Stannis or Shireen even once ?

I wouldn't say he's a Jon loyalist.  He's a good guy who was fighting for the same cause Davos believes it, and Davos tries to do the right thing.  Mel, well, she's a broken woman, and he doesn't know what she did.  Is there a reason he should have mentioned Stannis or Shireen this episode?  We saw him brooding in his quarters before finding the body.

Quote

Why is everybody just buying Thornes bullshit ?

Effectively he's presenting them with a fait accompli and daring them to challenge him and the others of the officer class.  It seemed more like the place lapsed into indecision after her spoke.  Though many clearly don't like the Wildlings either.

Quote

How did Brienne find Sansa ?

Tracking the hunting party.  I agree it would be nice to get an explanation of how she knew Sansa had escaped, though.

Quote

Why is Podrick suddenly a capable Fighter ?

Brienne said she was going to train him in 503.  Evidently they have been.

Quote

Where did the tracking hounds go ?

Good question.

Quote

How can the queen stay imprisoned by the faith for weeks/months with nobody giving a fuck ? Because she maybe lied a little to protect her brother ?

The passage of time here is notoriously vague, but I agree the stalemate has been going on a bit long.

Quote

We have to believe, that Ellaria somehow convinced ALL the royal guard to betray Doran without Hotah noticing.

That's definitely stupid.

Quote

We have to pretend there is reason in revenging Oberyn by wiping out the Martell family.

That's definitely stupid on a character level, but I don't the show itself thinks this is logical.  It's portraying Ellaria as bloodthirsty to the point of irrationality.

Quote

How did the Snakes get on Trystanes ship ?

By boarding it, presumably.  Either the guards are in on the coup too, or they didn't think Trystane's cousins visiting was an issue.  The whole Dornish storyline, for the record, I think is dumb.

Quote

Why was Trystane still on that ship ?

Because it's safer than the Red Keep (or should have been, anyway).  That's logical.

Quote

Tyrion and Varys can walk the streets of Mereen safely and unnoticed because they are dressed like merchants ? There must be a lot of Mereenese merchants that are either large bold white men or Dwarfs with a huge scar on their face.

I agree that's silly.

Quote

Why are grafittis in Mereen written in the common tongue/Westerosi ?

So the audience can read it.

Quote

Jorah/Daario just happen to find the ring in the middle of nowhere.

Definitely on the implausible side that they actually found the Dothraki circle (having found the circle, finding the ring is not so implausible).

Quote

The Dothraki have no idea who Dany is but on the other hand don't immediatly rape the beautiful young woman they find.

As we saw, they decided to present her to their Khal.  That's plausible enough.

Quote

The Khal laughs all her titles away (including "Khaleesi") but when she mentions being the widow of Khal Drogo he immediatley believes her.

I don't know whether they laughed off her titles or just didn't care.  Regardless, she gave enough details that I suppose they considered it credible.

Quote

Where's Drogon ?

Where Dany left him before wandering off, presumably?

Quote

Arya and the Waif can beat each other up in the middle of the street in broad daylight and nobody cares. No one trying to break this up ? Not even some nosey spectators ?

People in this quarter of Braavos are evidently indifferent.

Quote

Why does Thorne give the Jon loyalists this unneccesary long amount of time to surrender ?

He's not on a clock, as far as he knows.

Quote

Why is Davos the spokesperson and not one of the brother who must have known both Jon and Thorne much better ? 

Because Davos is a natural leader and a smart man, and others can see that.

Quote

And why are they all so keen on protecting Jons body anyway ? (We all know why, but there is no apparent motivation for the characters in-verse)

I don't think they were protecting his body, per se.  They took his body inside, and once in there, they came to understand that they'd been marked as Jon loyalists and that Thorne would probably kill them.

Quote

And finally we get the obvious plot hole of Mel already having taken her nacklace of in a earlier episode.

I agree, absent further explanation (like those vials), that's a major goof.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe the necklace is a conduit for the power of glamour but she still has control if she glamours or not.  Show me one scene where she said "this is the +2 necklace of glamour, wear it and you look young"?  The fact is none of us know how that magic crap works.  The importance of the scene was Melissandre and not the necklace.

 

Logic at its core essence is the application of rules (if the rules are met, then the logic works, if they are not, it fails).  We don't all know the rules and where magic is concerned, we really don't.  There is a lot about the SS coup I didn't like...mostly because it felt so out of place and the pacing was such that I was more WTF than WOW.  It did not feel strategic nor was I invested in it.  It could have been handled so much better.

 

At least for me, logic was the least of my issues with the Dornish plot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, StarksNTargs said:

 The important thing was the coup.

There is no coup.  It is not possible.  No other Noble Families of Dorne would follow a non-noble born kinslayer and her bastards.  Oberyn loved his brother, in show, and Dorne, in show.  Said they do not kill children, in show.  And his paramour and supposed devoted lover, shat all over it.  Make absolutely 0 story sense.  Not nitpicking.  It is flat out not possible in the world of Westeros.  

It's the equivalent of Jon Snow killing Ned and the entire Stark family and the rest of the Northern families being all "Oh, cool.  New warden of the North.  I dig it.  "

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Why did they just leave Jon's body out in the open ?

Because there was a message to be delivered with the traitor sign and his body beside it.

Quote

Why is Davos suddenly a Jon-loyalist, friendly towards Mel and doesn't mention Stannis or Shireen even once ?

He's just a decent man. He's seen a murder of a man he likes and the confrontation that follows is not something he sought out initially. Who would he talk to about Stannis and Shireen? Melissandre? Who's hardly in the room with him for more than a few miutes?

Quote

Why is everybody just buying Thornes bullshit ?

Because it's true? Not many of the Nights Watch are fond of the wildlings either.

Quote

How did Brienne find Sansa ?

You'd want to be deaf not to hear the bloodhounds.

Quote

Why is Podrick suddenly a capable Fighter ?

Training. As promised. By Brienne.

Quote

Where did the tracking hounds go ?

They legged it when things got messy and their handler was killed.

Quote

How can the queen stay imprisoned by the faith for weeks/months with nobody giving a fuck ? Because she maybe lied a little to protect her brother ?

Cersei is in no hurry to free the woman who she thinks might have been behind her own imprisonment there. Who else is going to do it if not Cersei? Tommen on his own?

Quote

We have to believe, that Ellaria somehow convinced ALL the royal guard to betray Doran without Hotah noticing.

All two of them that I saw on screen?.

Quote

We have to pretend there is reason in revenging Oberyn by wiping out the Martell family.

Only the ones who wouldn't lift a finger to avenge Elia's and now Oberyn's deaths.

Quote

How did the Snakes get on Trystanes ship ?

From another ship or boat. How dificult would it be? Under cover of darkness, hide out until the main party left and then do the necessary. So many ways.

Quote

Why was Trystane still on that ship ?

There's a photo of some of the props. The message that Doran read is in that photo. From Jaime it outlined what had happened and that Jaime was sending Trystane back on the same ship for his own safety. Too late...

Quote

Tyrion and Varys can walk the streets of Mereen safely and unnoticed because they are dressed like merchants ? There must be a lot of Mereenese merchants that are either large bold white men or Dwarfs with a huge scar on their face.

There are lots of different people in the world.

Quote

Why are grafittis in Mereen written in the common tongue/Westerosi ?

So we can read it. Subtitles would be a bit crass really.

Quote

Jorah/Daario just happen to find the ring in the middle of nowhere.

In a small patch of untouched grass in the middle of a huge trampled circle of grass that points to it like a bullseye. Still not easy but golfers find golf balls in far bigger patches of grass routinely ;)

Quote

The Dothraki have no idea who Dany is but on the other hand don't immediatly rape the beautiful young woman they find.

Yes and find themselves wearing their genitalia for a necklace when their Khal finds out that they got there first.

Quote

The Khal laughs all her titles away (including "Khaleesi") but when she mentions being the widow of Khal Drogo he immediatley believes her.
Where's Drogon ?

She can speak Dothraki, they must know of Drogo and probably have heard of his wife or even seen her when she was with him at Vaes Dothrak. Drogon is off hunting shepherds presumably. But no doubt he'll return to his mistress when he's good and fed.

Quote

Arya and the Waif can beat each other up in the middle of the street in broad daylight and nobody cares. No one trying to break this up ? Not even some nosey spectators ?

Because people regularly jump in to street fights to break them up. It is known :)

Quote

Why does Thorne give the Jon loyalists this unneccesary long amount of time to surrender ?

Because it's easier to kill them in the open rather than trying to fight a skirmish in confined quarters. People could get hurt.

Quote

Why is Davos the spokesperson and not one of the brother who must have known both Jon and Thorne much better ? 

Davos is used to leadership. He takes over naturally and the others follow him just as naturally.

Quote

And why are they all so keen on protecting Jons body anyway ? (We all know why, but there is no apparent motivation for the characters in-verse)

Did they say they were protecting it? Is it not just the fact that it's the room they brought his body to and where they then discussed the ramifications and decided on a plan of action?
 

Quote

And finally we get the obvious plot hole of Mel already having taken her nacklace of in a earlier episode.

And we know that the necklace is what keeps her young looking how?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Colonel Green said:

As an example?  Because it wasn't a priority?  Thorne wasn't out to cover it up.

I wouldn't say he's a Jon loyalist.  He's a good guy who was fighting for the same cause Davos believes it, and Davos tries to do the right thing.  Mel, well, she's a broken woman, and he doesn't know what she did.  Is there a reason he should have mentioned Stannis or Shireen this episode?  We saw him brooding in his quarters before finding the body.

Effectively he's presenting them with a fait accompli and daring them to challenge him and the others of the officer class.  It seemed more like the place lapsed into indecision after her spoke.  Though many clearly don't like the Wildlings either.

Tracking the hunting party.  I agree it would be nice to get an explanation of how she knew Sansa had escaped, though.

Brienne said she was going to train him in 503.  Evidently they have been.

Good question.

The passage of time here is notoriously vague, but I agree the stalemate has been going on a bit long.

That's definitely stupid.

That's definitely stupid on a character level, but I don't the show itself thinks this is logical.  It's portraying Ellaria as bloodthirsty to the point of irrationality.

By boarding it, presumably.  Either the guards are in on the coup too, or they didn't think Trystane's cousins visiting was an issue.  The whole Dornish storyline, for the record, I think is dumb.

Because it's safer than the Red Keep (or should have been, anyway).  That's logical.

I agree that's silly.

So the audience can read it.

Definitely on the implausible side that they actually found the Dothraki circle (having found the circle, finding the ring is not so implausible).

As we saw, they decided to present her to their Khal.  That's plausible enough.

I don't know whether they laughed off her titles or just didn't care.  Regardless, she gave enough details that I suppose they considered it credible.

Where Dany left him before wandering off, presumably?

People in this quarter of Braavos are evidently indifferent.

He's not on a clock, as far as he knows.

Because Davos is a natural leader and a smart man, and others can see that.

I don't think they were protecting his body, per se.  They took his body inside, and once in there, they came to understand that they'd been marked as Jon loyalists and that Thorne would probably kill them.

I agree, absent further explanation (like those vials), that's a major goof.

You are making good points, and I am not saying all the points I listed are flat-out plotholes or illogical.

But you have to squint, fill in some blanks and/or actively suspend disbelief to give them a pass.

As I said, if we had maybe 2 or 3 scenes like that per episode, it wouldn't be an issue. But it adds up and the world we are presented get's less and less relatable until it's some kind of bizarre improv theatre, where characters engage in plots just to keep them going and not because they have comprehensible motivations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Rhollo said:

If it was only "at times" it would be alright, but we had to make assumptions and/or suspend disbelief constantly last episode.

Why did they just leave Jon's body out in the open ?
Why is Davos suddenly a Jon-loyalist, friendly towards Mel and doesn't mention Stannis or Shireen even once ?
Why is everybody just buying Thornes bullshit ?
How did Brienne find Sansa ?
Why is Podrick suddenly a capable Fighter ?
Where did the tracking hounds go ?
How can the queen stay imprisoned by the faith for weeks/months with nobody giving a fuck ? Because she maybe lied a little to protect her brother ?
We have to believe, that Ellaria somehow convinced ALL the royal guard to betray Doran without Hotah noticing.
We have to pretend there is reason in revenging Oberyn by wiping out the Martell family.
How did the Snakes get on Trystanes ship ?
Why was Trystane still on that ship ?
Tyrion and Varys can walk the streets of Mereen safely and unnoticed because they are dressed like merchants ? There must be a lot of Mereenese merchants that are either large bold white men or Dwarfs with a huge scar on their face.
Why are grafittis in Mereen written in the common tongue/Westerosi ?
Jorah/Daario just happen to find the ring in the middle of nowhere.
The Dothraki have no idea who Dany is but on the other hand don't immediatly rape the beautiful young woman they find.
The Khal laughs all her titles away (including "Khaleesi") but when she mentions being the widow of Khal Drogo he immediatley believes her.
Where's Drogon ?
Arya and the Waif can beat each other up in the middle of the street in broad daylight and nobody cares. No one trying to break this up ? Not even some nosey spectators ?
Why does Thorne give the Jon loyalists this unneccesary long amount of time to surrender ?
Why is Davos the spokesperson and not one of the brother who must have known both Jon and Thorne much better ? 
And why are they all so keen on protecting Jons body anyway ? (We all know why, but there is no apparent motivation for the characters in-verse)
And finally we get the obvious plot hole of Mel already having taken her nacklace of in a earlier episode.

 

Name one (serious) TV show that challenges a viewers suspension of disbelief that much.

Good job. Everyone of those possible plot holes that you mentioned have to be explained away by facts the audience have to come up with on their own. The show didn't tell us, and when they all build up it makes a sloppy viewing experience.

Now we should re-watch any episode of season 1 and see how many plot holes we can find................

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Morky_Pep said:

Good job. Everyone of those possible plot holes that you mentioned have to be explained away by facts the audience have to come up with on their own. The show didn't tell us, and when they all build up it makes a sloppy viewing experience.

Now we should re-watch any episode of season 1 and see how many plot holes we can find................

They don't ALL have to be explained. Seriously dumb people might have to have them explained but most of them are just intuitive. Then you look at the rest and the vast majority would require serious screen time to take the viewer by the hand and lead them step by step to the conclusion. Do we really need to see Brienne and Pod hear the bloodhounds and decide that they should check it out? Do we need to see a small ship shadowing Jaime up through the narrow sea? And why do we have to know how Melissandre puts her glamout on and off? The fact that she can should really be enough. Does she have to go through a Harry Potteresque "Wingardium Leviosa" lesson to get it right?

Here's a quick runthrough of some of them:

Quote

Why did they just leave Jon's body out in the open ? Why not?
Why is Davos suddenly a Jon-loyalist, friendly towards Mel and doesn't mention Stannis or Shireen even once ? Is this important?
Why is everybody just buying Thornes bullshit ? Did he lie?
How did Brienne find Sansa ? In the snow everyone can hear you scream!
Why is Podrick suddenly a capable Fighter ? Because squires don't normally learn to fight?
Where did the tracking hounds go ? Does it matter? How long would they last against Brienne?
How can the queen stay imprisoned by the faith for weeks/months with nobody giving a fuck ? Because she maybe lied a little to protect her brother ? How did you not ask this about Cersei?
We have to believe, that Ellaria somehow convinced ALL the royal guard to betray Doran without Hotah noticing. All 2 of them.

How are these plotholes. What plot is being holed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Clash said:

You'd want to be deaf not to hear the bloodhounds.

They legged it when things got messy and their handler was killed.

So Brienne would have been deaf if she didn't hear the bloodhounds, but when they "leg it", they do it completely silent ? Bause there is not a single bark, growl or howl to hear during the fight.

27 minutes ago, Clash said:

Because it's true? Not many of the Nights Watch are fond of the wildlings either.

By bullshit I mean his claim that "Jon let the Wildlings through the wall". No Mr. Thorne, that was all you.
He would have had the chance to actually make a "tough decision" AND accomplish something by keeping the gate shut an the wildlings north of the wall. Instead choose to follow Jons order and then killed him for it.
And claiming to be loyal and never disobeying orders when you just openly admitted mutiny two sentences before is also quite shameless.

36 minutes ago, Clash said:

Cersei is in no hurry to free the woman who she thinks might have been behind her own imprisonment there. Who else is going to do it if not Cersei? Tommen on his own?

The Tyrells, one of the most powerful houses in Westeros ?

39 minutes ago, Clash said:

All two of them that I saw on screen?

There are at least 7 in a single shot and judging by their position throughout the scene there seem to be at least 10-12 in the close vicinity of Doran.

44 minutes ago, Clash said:

Yes and find themselves wearing their genitalia for a necklace when their Khal finds out that they got there first.

Because Khals have dibs on all females his Khalasar comes across ? When was that established ? Drogo didn't seem to care about that, when his soldiers raped Lhazareen women left and right and Dany ordered them to stop.

47 minutes ago, Clash said:

Because people regularly jump in to street fights to break them up. It is known :)

If they don't break it up, people at least like to watch a street fight. Hell, I am not a particularly voyeuristic person, but if there is a blind homeless girl suddenly showing off ninja-skills I AM WATCHING THAT.

52 minutes ago, Clash said:

Because it's easier to kill them in the open rather than trying to fight a skirmish in confined quarters. People could get hurt.

How is a longer ultimatum changing that. If they don't come out within a few minutes, they won't change their minds anymore. All that Thorne does is give them more time to prepare for the impending fight in the confined quarters or find a way to escape (or for Edd to arrive with the cavallry ?).
It's basically the equivalent of a bad guy dramatically taking his time to finish off the disarmed hero character lying on the ground just so he can get stabbed in the back by some ally of the hero character (hey, that sounds familiar).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×