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hallam

Did people miss a major death [Spoiler] ?

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It's really not Mel's style to trumble off to bed to sacrifice herself, even if she's lost her faith at the moment. It seems more likely that she's just having a moment of doubt.

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45 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Mel is not nearly as powerful as the OP seems to think she is.

The last scene merely served to highlight her vulnerability, since the Show can't take us inside her POV like the books did. They had to do it visually.

Have to agree with this.

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2 hours ago, hallam said:

"I see a darkness in you. And in that darkness, eyes staring back at me. Brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes... eyes you'll shut forever. We will meet again."

Is 'We" Arya and Mel or Arya and the eyes she sees?

Thing is, Mel really has to go from the series because she is way too powerful and Arya is the other side of the sea and clearly won't get to Winterfell for quite a while. She hasn't finished her training or killed off the faceless men yet.

I haven't seen her do anything powerful since the shadowbaby, and locate Gendry in the middle of a war zone and know his Father was Robert Baratheon, this while Gendry was a guest of the BwB, who the Lanniisters couldn't find with a GPS. That was powerful of Melisandre but she ain't done nothing powerful for a while, unless Burning Shireen counts.

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Just a random thought...

We know that Thoros says the words and beric rises, however do we know if Thoros has killed and how many he has killed.

Because as some stated above only death can pay for life.

Therefore, does Shireen's death caused by Mel allow her to say the words and raise Jon?

Also, as someone else stated above Mel isn't dead because of the things that were mentioned in the trailers that haven't been showed yet.

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It is a possible interpretation, she could very well not wake up in the morning. As I already said in a Melisandre thread, I think that would be absolutely beautiful. 

However, it's not quite certain from what we have seen in episode one. She could just as well get up in the morning, shake it off and resurrect Jon, because she's a boss bitch. Or she could stay around powerlessly and see Bran resurrect Jon, lose all hope and die/fade away/disappear then. I find all three scenarios equally well based and good. We'lol see what happens. 

 

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10 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Mel is not nearly as powerful as the OP seems to think she is.

The last scene merely served to highlight her vulnerability, since the Show can't take us inside her POV like the books did. They had to do it visually.

I dont think it is a vulnerability as you say, however I think like you have suggested she can't take us inside her POV like the books can, the last scene was too show her failures to produce what her fires have shown and thus she is interpreting them completely wrong.  I think it was more to show how she feels right now, if you have ever seen the movie no country for old men, I think this scene and her predictions pretty much are analogous to that whole movie.  There are many things that are going on that no one is aware about and because of this she is getting affected by it. 

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I find it hard to believe that Mel's story is done.  While that would be an interesting way to end her story, I think it would have deserved more screen time if that was indeed the intent.

Right now Mel is defeated.  She feels lost, because everything she has been preaching seems gone.

Something has been keeping her young (or her appearance at least). So the question is, what was that?  was it hte necklace?  If so, then they made an error bc she was seen without it in the past.  My guess is the necklace was simply showing that she is stripping down completely, and removing all items.

I wonder if "kings blood" is actually what was keeping her young.  Being close to stannis kept her power strong, and now with him gone she has next to no power.

With Jon also "dead" there is no kings blood around.  (other than that pile of blood the camera keeps lingering on).

 

Why did Mel return to Castle Black again anyways?  I cant even remember if there was a reason other than perhaps to match up with her location in the books?

 

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Mel's story is far from done. We saw in he trailer another scene with her and Davos saying all of this was a lie. She's just having crisis of faith and something will trigger her to do resurrection, because clearly she ain't gonna be doing that now in this mood. She needs guide and R'hllor might help her. Then we saw her leaving Castle Black on a horse in one of the promo and currently with Thorne ready to kill anyone Davos, loyalists or Mel. She will leave with certain someone to march.

They can make his resurrection to look like a one time thing and that it can't be replicated. Thus Mel can go with him and be by his side. It would mirror Dany too. I think she will give part of her powers for him.

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That is a good point about her meeting Arya again. I don't think she will be killed off just yet, she is one of the good bad guys and many more baddies will be killed off this season so she is a good antagonist to have around.

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20 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

 

They can make his resurrection to look like a one time thing and that it can't be replicated. Thus Mel can go with him and be by his side. It would mirror Dany too. I think she will give part of her powers for him.

Why on earth would she do that? What's in it for her? Who the F is Jon Snow that she would do such for him? I really don't want this to happen, but can you please elaborate, because I'm still interested why you think she give up something for Jon. 

(Daenerys, not Melisandre) 

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3 hours ago, Starks of Winter said:

Just a random thought...

We know that Thoros says the words and beric rises, however do we know if Thoros has killed and how many he has killed.

Because as some stated above only death can pay for life.

Therefore, does Shireen's death caused by Mel allow her to say the words and raise Jon?

Also, as someone else stated above Mel isn't dead because of the things that were mentioned in the trailers that haven't been showed yet.

I'm not sure we can take what someone says over in Essos to be true across the lake.  The whole "only death can pay for life", may be true in blood magic, but is what Mel doing blood magic?  Can anyone confirm?

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2 hours ago, RhaeBee said:

Why on earth would she do that? What's in it for her? Who the F is Jon Snow that she would do such for him? I really don't want this to happen, but can you please elaborate, because I'm still interested why you think she give up something for Jon. 

(Daenerys, not Melisandre) 

Because Jon is the key to everything.  Now I don't necessarily believe in his take on her doing whatever she is doing to save him, I don't even think she knows he is dead yet.  I believe she is still blindsided by the loss of Stannis and this scene was to show her state of mind of her failures and where she is emotionally.  I think people are reading way too much into this scene.  I don't think it was a foreshadowing or any cues in the scene that said she died or was going to die.  I think it was just a scene to show the audience of where she currently is mentally.

Correction: I forgot she saw him dead in the show, for some reason I felt she hadn't seen him yet.  I need to rewatch the episode.

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Now this is the $64,000 question. It was an amazing moment, not just to see her real form behind all the glamour, but the moment where all disguises were shed. Mel has always been confident in her predictions, even when Stannis called her on her bullshit, but the woman at the end of season 5 and the start of 6 was completely stripped of her certainties. Something I never expected to see. Stannis' death on show rocked her world; Jon's shocked her to the core, you could hear it in her voice as if she'd said, "I...I just give up." In the books, it's much clearer to me that she's pivoting away from Stannis to Jon. 

 

As far as the lack of continuity with the necklace that people have mentioned, I don't think the showrunners got it wrong. This season she deliberately sheds her disguise; when she'd first taken off the necklace in bathtub scene talking with Selyse, Mel still had to keep that woman enthralled so I think she's powerful enough to maintain her disguise exactly when she needs to. The necklace does have some relevance to her power, I still remember how it glowed after Maester Cressen tried to poison her. This season, she was alone in a room and defeated by how everything had gone awry, so she could be her true self.

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Mel has no power on the show. Shes done nothing useful since the shadowbaby.

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6 hours ago, W1NT3RF3LL said:

Because Jon is the key to everything.  Now I don't necessarily believe in his take on her doing whatever she is doing to save him, I don't even think she knows he is dead yet.  I believe she is still blindsided by the loss of Stannis and this scene was to show her state of mind of her failures and where she is emotionally.  I think people are reading way too much into this scene.  I don't think it was a foreshadowing or any cues in the scene that said she died or was going to die.  I think it was just a scene to show the audience of where she currently is mentally.

Correction: I forgot she saw him dead in the show, for some reason I felt she hadn't seen him yet.  I need to rewatch the episode.

I understand why Melisandre would help Jon and give up her powers for the greater good. I was talking about Daenerys and asking why Lord Friendzone thought she would give up anything for Jon. 

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22 hours ago, nymeria_2321 said:

Maybe I'm missing something but why would Mel need to die to resurrect Jon? One- Thoros could resurrect without death or kings blood. 2- even if we assume "only death can pay for life" or kings blood is needed, what about Shireens death? Shireen had kings blood and was sacrificed and the intended use of the sacrifice - stannis' victory- clearly didn't happen so shouldn't be magic resulting from Shireens death still be out there, to be used for something (like the slugs in the fire?) so why couldn't the magic from killing Shireens be used for Jon?

I thought the same thing, too. However, a part of me feels like this is similar to Bran's coma and BR with Bran and maybe even Mel, will team up to bring him back. 

18 hours ago, Momo said:

It's really not Mel's style to trumble off to bed to sacrifice herself, even if she's lost her faith at the moment. It seems more likely that she's just having a moment of doubt.

Yes, Doubt!! She needed to clear her head and think, perhaps she hoped it would come to her in a dream 3EC style. 

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Just now, RhaeBee said:

I understand why Melisandre would help Jon and give up her powers for the greater good. I was talking about Daenerys and asking why Lord Friendzone thought she would give up anything for Jon. 

Oh Im sorry I didn't see that.  I have to read more thoroughly.  I agree I don't think Daenery's would be bending the knee so easily to Jon or feel the need to do anything for him in that manner..

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20 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Mel is not nearly as powerful as the OP seems to think she is.

The last scene merely served to highlight her vulnerability, since the Show can't take us inside her POV like the books did. They had to do it visually.

This. She isn't dying, she is shaken. She was wrong about stannis, and she was right about Jon. Her glamour is an article of clothing that she removes to be comfortable. She has been a major part of the story since season 2. Having her die now, alone in bed would be very anti-climactic, especially  since the other red priest is in the riverlands and the other magic users are north of the wall. 

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22 minutes ago, Dorian Martell said:

This. She isn't dying, she is shaken. She was wrong about stannis, and she was right about Jon. Her glamour is an article of clothing that she removes to be comfortable. She has been a major part of the story since season 2. Having her die now, alone in bed would be very anti-climactic, especially  since the other red priest is in the riverlands and the other magic users are north of the wall. 

Yup !!! Very anticlimactic. 

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