Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

hallam

Did people miss a major death [Spoiler] ?

Recommended Posts

I assumed that the 'born amidst salt and smoke' part of the AA prophecy was referring to Melisandre, being a follower of the fire god as 'smoke,' and Davos Seaworth being the 'salt.' 

I interpreted 'born amidst' to mean born in the presence of, but I could be wrong. There are a modicum of different predictions about that prophecy anyways so who knows until we find out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She's losing her faith and is depressed, thats what I take from it. Theres a scene where shes wearing furs or something, so for once, she's cold. She never feels the cold.  Suggest her magic is waning and is based on faith.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Xarkar said:

Why did Mel return to Castle Black again anyways?  I cant even remember if there was a reason other than perhaps to match up with her location in the books?

 

Well, she knew her visions were wrong and Stannis would want to possibly kill her...and the safest place for her to go was Castle Black. That's just my reasoning but it could just be that she needed to be at Castle Black.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She returned to Castle Black because she saw Jon fighting in Winterfell in the flames. It finally dawned on her how her interpretation of Stannis as AA was wrong and that it is in fact Jon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The books say her powers grew stronger at the wall. I believe she will rez Jon with the "last kiss" but she will die in doing so

Also who is to say that she doesn't transform into an old lady every night when she goes to bed and removes her "Glamour"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On April 25, 2016 at 2:04 PM, hallam said:

Mel has to die for the plot to continue. She is too powerful. Like Dumbledore or Gandalf, she can solve too many problems too easily. And if she stays around after Jon is brought back, Jon can never be in danger. Any time he dies, Mel will just have to give him another booster shot like Thoros did. Mel certainly can't be around when Jon is laying siege to Winterfell to find out his true parentage, she would look in the fires and know.

Because if there's anything we've learned about Mel it's that she's never wrong and completely effective. She's been staring into her fires and all she knows is that there's something curious about Jon.

As for Davos wanting revenge on  Mel: he's accepted what she is. It was Stannis and Selyse who pulled the trigger on Shireen. And if Stannis was doomed anyway, Shireen's fate is tied to his with her being the legitimate Baratheon heir. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, The Old Tongue said:

Because if there's anything we've learned about Mel it's that she's never wrong and completely effective. She's been staring into her fires and all she knows is that there's something curious about Jon.

As for Davos wanting revenge on  Mel: he's accepted what she is. It was Stannis and Selyse who pulled the trigger on Shireen. And if Stannis was doomed anyway, Shireen's fate is tied to his with her being the legitimate Baratheon heir. 

Mel isn't actually very good in show or books. She misreads visions in both. Her only good trick was the shadow baby. She does get good weather by burning Shireen but Stannis is dead 24 hours later.

Oh BTW, the folk claiming Shireen doesn't get burned in the books seem to have forgotten that three stakes are set out to burn someone in them and a 'package' is on its way from Mel.

The problem is that no matter how bad Mel is in practice, the fact that she might intervene ruins the suspense. And if she did bring Jon back, she could keep doing it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw the scene more as she felt defeated and lost and decided it was time for the long sleep. I do believe they alluded to more with going to bed and getting under the covers.

Will I be shocked to hear that she has passed in the night? not at all.

Will I be shocked if she returns at some point. Not at all.

If she has to revive Jon I would like it to be thru a funeral Pyre in which she sacrifices herself ( although embraces the flames) And Jon wakes.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Themongrel said:

I saw the scene more as she felt defeated and lost and decided it was time for the long sleep. I do believe they alluded to more with going to bed and getting under the covers.

Will I be shocked to hear that she has passed in the night? not at all.

Will I be shocked if she returns at some point. Not at all.

If she has to revive Jon I would like it to be thru a funeral Pyre in which she sacrifices herself ( although embraces the flames) And Jon wakes.

 

Well she's tweeted a shot of her going to an outdoor scene during filiming of season 6 so I think that means that she's still alive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not think we 'saw' Mel's death and I do not think her story is done.  But I am very confused by her, this early in the episode.  Who is she?  What of the ruby necklace?  Now, I know that she could be the daughter of Bloodraven and Shiera Seastar and her ruby necklace could be one of Rhaegar's lost rubies.  But the show is just not that smart anymore so I do not think either of those possibilities are going to be introduced to us now.  

So who is Mel?  Is she the white walker 'wife' of the Night King?  Of course that woman was fair and cold as ice.  Mel glows with warmth - a glamour in order to hide her origins? Red to hide the white?  I can see how that might work with the story line - doesn't the book tell us somewhere that her powers grow while at the wall?  Could she be the 'real' Lord Brandon Stark daughter that was spirited off by Bael the Bard.  The daughter that was returned was just a glamour, and Mel is a Stark?  Somehow Mel has to tie into what the show has given us so far.  We are not likely to get an entirely new family story.  I am confused about where this story line is going.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, lakin1013 said:

I do not think we 'saw' Mel's death and I do not think her story is done.  But I am very confused by her, this early in the episode.  Who is she?  What of the ruby necklace?  Now, I know that she could be the daughter of Bloodraven and Shiera Seastar and her ruby necklace could be one of Rhaegar's lost rubies.  But the show is just not that smart anymore so I do not think either of those possibilities are going to be introduced to us now.  

So who is Mel?  Is she the white walker 'wife' of the Night King?  Of course that woman was fair and cold as ice.  Mel glows with warmth - a glamour in order to hide her origins? Red to hide the white?  I can see how that might work with the story line - doesn't the book tell us somewhere that her powers grow while at the wall?  Could she be the 'real' Lord Brandon Stark daughter that was spirited off by Bael the Bard.  The daughter that was returned was just a glamour, and Mel is a Stark?  Somehow Mel has to tie into what the show has given us so far.  We are not likely to get an entirely new family story.  I am confused about where this story line is going.

or maybe she is just an extremely old witch from Asshai ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/25/2016 at 5:04 PM, hallam said:

I am rather surprised that people are asking if Mel is going to resurrect Jon because by my reading she just had her death scene.

Consider the clues that were left - Davos stares at the blood, Kingsblood. The camera lingers on the things on Mel's table which include a vial that contained some liquid. Davos, her fiercest critic says that there is nothing he doesn't think she could do.

Forget the Rattleshirt glamour from the book. Whatever spell is keeping Mel young, it isn't that spell. It is something much more powerful. She has taken the necklace off before and didn't turn old. So it wasn't just that that made her suddenly old. The much more obvious reading is that she is dying.

Mel has to die for the plot to continue. She is too powerful. Like Dumbledore or Gandalf, she can solve too many problems too easily. And if she stays around after Jon is brought back, Jon can never be in danger. Any time he dies, Mel will just have to give him another booster shot like Thoros did. Mel certainly can't be around when Jon is laying siege to Winterfell to find out his true parentage, she would look in the fires and know.

Mel's plotline is exhausted in any case. She was tied to Stanis and after her utter failure, there is only one thing she can do to atone for all the deaths she has caused. The big challenge in televising GoT is that the books have too many plots going on at once. So D&D have wisely followed the Stanis plot line through to its conclusion before starting with the Ironborn subplot.

Also consider the long list of people who would be coming for revenge on Mel. Davos would certainly slice her in two if he knew what she had done to Shireen. And the Wildings hate her for burning Mance. 

So don't look for Mel resurrecting Jon in the next episode. It has already happened.

I guess you haven't seen the S6 trailer. There's more Red Mel to come. This scene wasn't meant to show her death, but to introduce the concept of glamour, and her faith in R'hllor waning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/27/2016 at 4:57 AM, cheesemaster93 said:

I assumed that the 'born amidst salt and smoke' part of the AA prophecy was referring to Melisandre, being a follower of the fire god as 'smoke,' and Davos Seaworth being the 'salt.' 

I interpreted 'born amidst' to mean born in the presence of, but I could be wrong. There are a modicum of different predictions about that prophecy anyways so who knows until we find out. 

we have never actually heard the actual prophecy. What is the difference between born and reborn... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/27/2016 at 6:10 PM, princess_snow said:

or maybe she is just an extremely old witch from Asshai ?

She could but this show is based on an intentional work.  All of the main and B level characters have reason or purpose.  Of the top level of characters, nobody is just there or just a soldier or just a girl.  And the show comes from an intricate, carefully plotted series of books.  I think Mel has some history that will make sense to us, the viewers, when it is revealed.  If Mel is just some ancient witch, or a character like Mirri Maz Duur, I will be disappointed (unless she is related to her somehow - that might be interesting...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 5:04 PM, hallam said:

She has taken the necklace off before and didn't turn old.

 

Are you sure about this? She could just be the same old Mel and it's only her true form, no weakening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason Mel would give herself for Jon is the very reason she returned to Winterfell. Stannis was defeated, and she realized her misinterpretation of him being Azor Ahai reborn. Once she was certain, she left immediately for Castle Black to be near the person she also suspected of prophetic significance. "All I see is Snow."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Azor Ahai said:

The reason Mel would give herself for Jon is the very reason she returned to Winterfell. Stannis was defeated, and she realized her misinterpretation of him being Azor Ahai reborn. Once she was certain, she left immediately for Castle Black to be near the person she also suspected of prophetic significance. "All I see is Snow."

Nah, simpler than that. Its the only place she won't be killed on sight that she can get to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, hallam said:

Nah, simpler than that. Its the only place she won't be killed on sight that she can get to.

So you think she views Jon as having no significance in the AA theory? Did you read the books? She struggles with visions of him ever since she meets him, and is confused that she no longer sees Stannis is any hero form when she looks in the fires. She became very desperate with Stannis to try and unlock his potential and win him his status with exponentially more barbaric and disastrous ideas. Once his defeat finally came, she now knows that Jon was exactly who R'hllor wanted her to see all along.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, hallam said:

Nah, simpler than that. Its the only place she won't be killed on sight that she can get to.

As she said in the premiere. She saw him fighting at Winterfell (he's important), maybe a nod to what was said in the books when she saw him in the flames. I think it wasn't the first time she saw him and R'hllor definitely got some plans for him. Also Castle Black is the safest known place, not far away like Dragonstone on one of the temples of Red God./R'hllor All in all it make sense why she ended up there, but what doesn't make sense is how she got her horse...but that is for another debate and to other thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Azor Ahai said:

So you think she views Jon as having no significance in the AA theory? Did you read the books? She struggles with visions of him ever since she meets him, and is confused that she no longer sees Stannis is any hero form when she looks in the fires. She became very desperate with Stannis to try and unlock his potential and win him his status with exponentially more barbaric and disastrous ideas. Once his defeat finally came, she now knows that Jon was exactly who R'hllor wanted her to see all along.

Not necessarily. Her decision to return to castle Black is overdetermined - she has nowhere else to go. So you can't draw any conclusion from it.

If she realized Jon was AA it would be only hours after she saw him that he was dead. So more doubt etc.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×