Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Dizzy Walker

Dosh Khaleen and Vaes Dothrak

Recommended Posts

In this episode, Khal Moro had a very sudden dramatic change of attitude once Dany told him she was Drogo's widow.  Once she was a Dosh Khaleen he went from sex mode to reverent, almost scared, in a second. I am wondering what kind of power or strength the Dosh Khaleen have. The Dothraki only respect the strong, have a have a pretty laid back view on sex, and have little regard for a khalasar without a khal. So why would they have so much respect for this group of old women without a khal?

  The Dothraki do not seem to have much magic, but we know they have at least a little because they do prophecies. They got it wrong with Dany's child, but the dragons in her future probably gave them some confusing info to interpret. But do they have some bigger mojo that would make the Dothraki as a whole respect them like they do?   The Dothraki bring idols to Vaes Dothrak from the people they conquer. Could one of those idols have some kind of scary magic the Dosh Khaleen figured out how to use? 

  I wonder if Dany will learn something important in Vaes Dothrak from either an idol or one of the women there. I also wonder, with nothing to support it, if Quaithe is a Dosh Khaleen who that has been trying to help Dany, or get her to Vae Dothrak for some reason. We have no clue who else may have ended up being a Khal's wife....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

 

The dosh khaleen are a ruling group within the Dothraki social hierarchy, specifically the crones who preside over the holy city of Vaes Dothrak. The dosh khaleen are composed of the widows of slain khals, and serve as seers foretelling the future and interpreting omens for the Dothraki. In this capacity they essentially also serve as the leaders of the Dothraki religion. Even powerful khals and fierce male Dothraki warriors fear disobeying the will of the dosh khaleen.

The name dosh khaleen literally means "council of crones" in the Dothraki language. Each of them was formerly the wife of a khal, and thus each of them was once a khaleesi. An individual member of the group would be called a khaleen

 

probably because of dothraki religion

Quote

The Stallion Who Mounts the World is a prophecy in the Dothraki religion. According to the prophecy, the Stallion is the "khal of khals" who will unite all the Dothraki under his single khalasar and ride to the ends of the earth

this was probably about dany not about her dead son

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never thought about this before. How interesting! I can't wait to see how it plays out.

3 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

Rhaego.

Rhaego is dead. There is absolutely no purpose of him being alive now. He's little more than an infant, and that's all he will be by series end. He will have no impact, other than Dany being happy that her son is alive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Dizzy Walker said:

In this episode, Khal Moro had a very sudden dramatic change of attitude once Dany told him she was Drogo's widow.  Once she was a Dosh Khaleen he went from sex mode to reverent, almost scared, in a second. I am wondering what kind of power or strength the Dosh Khaleen have. The Dothraki only respect the strong, have a have a pretty laid back view on sex, and have little regard for a khalasar without a khal. So why would they have so much respect for this group of old women without a khal?

  The Dothraki do not seem to have much magic, but we know they have at least a little because they do prophecies. They got it wrong with Dany's child, but the dragons in her future probably gave them some confusing info to interpret. But do they have some bigger mojo that would make the Dothraki as a whole respect them like they do?   The Dothraki bring idols to Vaes Dothrak from the people they conquer. Could one of those idols have some kind of scary magic the Dosh Khaleen figured out how to use? 

  I wonder if Dany will learn something important in Vaes Dothrak from either an idol or one of the women there. I also wonder, with nothing to support it, if Quaithe is a Dosh Khaleen who that has been trying to help Dany, or get her to Vae Dothrak for some reason. We have no clue who else may have ended up being a Khal's wife....

The Dosh Khaleen are the rulers and lawmakers in Vaes Dothrak, so that pretty much makes them the highest authority in the Dothraki culture. I'm glad it put Dany in a hands-off zone. 

Considering how openly hostile Dothraki have been about maegi/witches, I don't think they're big fans of magic. Inhaling smoke and banging some drums to conjure up omens from the way a pregnant khaleesi eats her horse heart might have more to do with tradition than actually seeing visions. She eats it all and keeps it down, the baby will be a strong, healthy boy. She can't do it or pukes, weak child, probably a girl. We don't really know enough about the Stallion that Mounts the World prophecy to know why they attribute it to Dany and Drogo's child. I'm sure she wasn't the first khaleesi heart-eating success, so maybe the prophecy indicated a foreign mother or something.

It's hard for my book knowledge to not interfere with my reasoning, but I think Dany is going to impress the Dosh Khaleen with some Mother of Dragons shenanigans with Drogon, and they will declare her the Stallion that Mounts the World. Dany will fulfill the prophecy and unite all of the khalasars under her banner. Too bad all those ships got torched...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's highly unlikely they ever make it to Vaes Dothrak. I believe it will be cut out of the show, but may be in the book.  I think Drogon makes an appearance on the way there and Dany will be reunited with her dragon.  Some of the Dothraki will be left from the carnage and decide to follow Dany to Westeros.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Mr. Greenhands said:

It's highly unlikely they ever make it to Vaes Dothrak. I believe it will be cut out of the show, but may be in the book.  I think Drogon makes an appearance on the way there and Dany will be reunited with her dragon.  Some of the Dothraki will be left from the carnage and decide to follow Dany to Westeros.

Highly unlikely? I'm sure there are shots in the trailers of them at Vaes Dothrak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Mr. Greenhands said:

I must have missed that trailer.  Do you know where I can find it?

It's all over YouTube. Just type in 'GoT season 6 trailers' and they should come up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, RadSam said:

Highly unlikely? I'm sure there are shots in the trailers of them at Vaes Dothrak.

There are some shots showing Dany arriving at Vaes Dothrak. But there are some other shots showing the shadow of a dragon flying above the khalasar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Juanis66 said:

There are some shots showing Dany arriving at Vaes Dothrak. But there are some other shots showing the shadow of a dragon flying above the khalasar

Yeah, I think Drogon will certainly be instrumental in bringing the khalsaar and Dosh Kaleen over to Dany's side. Based on the trailers plus the HotU prophecy I feel like she'll definetly meet the Dosh Kaleen though too.

If she does get the Dothraki then she will be well on her way to building a pretty serious f**king army.

She's got a few competent advisors now and generals to lead her different factions.

A good amount of Unsullied for ground infantry. She originally got 8,000 but has lost some since Astapor.

A rover / tactical force of about 2,000 second sons (again originally 2k but she may have lost some since Yunkai).

If she picks up even one Khalasar that would be a very good Cavalry force in Westeros. Let alone uniting a bunch of Khalsars. 

3 semi grown dragons of different sizes.

She just needs ships to get them there + a navy and she'd be set now. And for those that read the book, there may be some hints where that might come.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dosh Khaleen: the Dothraki like to appear as an ultimately male dominant culture that doesn't hold women in high regard. However, at a closer look at the details, their religion is 99% female dominant. Everything that stands above the khal (the top of the male dominated social hierarchy) is female. As the wiki quote in a previous post states, the Dosh Khaleen is the head of the Dothraki religion and we all know how important a role religion plays in every culture described in the story (drowned god, old gods, seven, red God). It's not different for the Dothraki either, the Dosh Khaleen is the ultimate source of wisdom as they are the link to the great stallion. Dothraki tribes return to vaes Dothrak and the Dosh Khaleen to perform religious ceremonies and keep in touch with their gods. Beyond the Dosh Khaleen, everything else that the Dothraki hold sacred is female, including the Mother of Mountians and the Womb of the World which are both sacred places and used to perform religious ceremonies. They also respect the moon as a female deity (as told by handmaidens, moon of my life, etc). Basically wisdom, godly powers and life are all attributed to females in the Dothraki culture, men only represent strength and earthly power. 

Drogon: the Dothraki follow strength and Drogon is the embodiment of strength in every aspect, so it would make perfect sense for the Dothraki to admire and follow him. Furthermore, Drogon is not only the metaphoric child of Daenerys, but also that of Drogo's. He was hatched on Drogo's funeral pyre and the book description makes a very visual statement about the crack of the last egg (Drogon's). I'm lazy to find the exact quote, but it's compared to the crack of Drogo's whip whose image is seen in the fire. With a whip being a phallic symbol, this goes hand in hand with the dragon child metaphor. All this together indicates that Drogon can be interpreted as the stallion who mounts the world with Daenerys as his rider. (of course this is only my interpretation, eveybody is free to interpret it however they wish, and I didn't just make this up now, I actually analyzed the Daenerys chapters of GoT for a reread thread so I do base it on textual evidence /disclaimers) 

Daenerys in Vaes Dothrak: Mirri Maz Dur's prophecy about Daenerys's fertility and Drogo's life indicates that she has unfinished business with the Dothraki (again, lazy to quote the prophecy but the Mountians the sea, the sun are all Dothraki related symbols and the prophecy was made in connection with her Dothraki child and husband to begin with). adding that to the stallion prophecy, Daenerys has every reason to return to vaes Dothrak. What happens there is open for everybody's individual hopes and dreams and interpretations. She might acquire the Dothraki army and invade westeros as Drogo planned, she might get her fertility back some how some way. (If I were Martin or D&D, I would be a horrible cheesy hopeless romantic and even bring Drogo back - it makes sense to me creatively because I want it to happen. Joke aside, I know that won't happen.) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, RhaeBee said:

Dosh Khaleen: the Dothraki like to appear as an ultimately male dominant culture that doesn't hold women in high regard. However, at a closer look at the details, their religion is 99% female dominant. Everything that stands above the khal (the top of the male dominated social hierarchy) is female. As the wiki quote in a previous post states, the Dosh Khaleen is the head of the Dothraki religion and we all know how important a role religion plays in every culture described in the story (drowned god, old gods, seven, red God). It's not different for the Dothraki either, the Dosh Khaleen is the ultimate source of wisdom as they are the link to the great stallion. Dothraki tribes return to vaes Dothrak and the Dosh Khaleen to perform religious ceremonies and keep in touch with their gods. Beyond the Dosh Khaleen, everything else that the Dothraki hold sacred is female, including the Mother of Mountians and the Womb of the World which are both sacred places and used to perform religious ceremonies. They also respect the moon as a female deity (as told by handmaidens, moon of my life, etc). Basically wisdom, godly powers and life are all attributed to females in the Dothraki culture, men only represent strength and earthly power. 

Thank you RhaeBee for giving a very good explanation of the Dothraki culture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Juanis66 said:

There are some shots showing Dany arriving at Vaes Dothrak. But there are some other shots showing the shadow of a dragon flying above the khalasar

I know, I've watched the trailers countless times :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Juanis66 said:

There are some shots showing Dany arriving at Vaes Dothrak. But there are some other shots showing the shadow of a dragon flying above the khalasar

They would hardly be mutually exclusive?

Clearly he'll be back to her once he's had enough shepherds to eat ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Clash said:

They would hardly be mutually exclusive?

Clearly he'll be back to her once he's had enough shepherds to eat ;)

They aren't mutually exclusive. I guess Drogon meets Dany at Vaes Dothrak and the shots showing him flying above a khalasar (or many khalasars) happens at the return to Meereem probably with Dany riding on him, leading the dothraki horde

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that shot could be Dany arriving at Vaes Dothrak. 

I know it's unlikely (but that doesn't quite matter with the show) but who's to say that Drogon doesn't just fly over and keep going? It could lead Dany down a road of losing faith in herself (along with Melisandre) and thinking she's completely lost control of her dragons. It could be a bit of a theme at the start of the season, only for them to come back stronger.

Like I said, unlikely, but you never know with the show.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Juanis66 said:

They aren't mutually exclusive. I guess Drogon meets Dany at Vaes Dothrak and the shots showing him flying above a khalasar (or many khalasars) happens at the return to Meereem probably with Dany riding on him, leading the dothraki horde

Well, the shot they showed in the trailer didn't look like anyone was riding on Drogon but it went by so quickly so you couldn't get a good look at it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×