You're Ned: find some marriage betrothals for your kids

[Ser Frasier of House Crane]

Robb: Myrcella Baratheon seems the best pick, even though obviously there will turn out to be issues there. If Ned wants to keep it "in the North," then Meera Reed. I think Ned would not have forgotten his old friend Howland and I think Meera would've been a good catch among the North.

Sansa: Willas Tyrell. Sansa's such a prize that it only makes sense Ned would try to forge an alliance with another Great House, and the Tyrells are a good match in that respect.

Arya: Theon Greyjoy. I think that Ned would've tried to have kept Theon "in the family" as long as possible, and while Theon had his eye on Sansa, I think Ned might've considered Arya, especially as her willful personality and Lyanna-esque nature might've made her a better fit for Theon. If he deigned not to marry her to Theon, then maybe one of his bannermen, like Cley Cerwyn. I am very curious to know what Ned's eventual plans for Theon were.

Bran: Shireen Baratheon. It just feels right, somehow.

[Dorian Martell]

On 4/27/2016 at 9:58 AM, James Steller said:

It's just before the beginning of AGOT. You're Eddard Stark, lord of Winterfell, and you want to arrange some future marriages for your kids so that they're provided for. The Northern lords all have their marriage offers, and your wife Catelyn suggests that there are options in the Riverlands too.

Excluding Jon Snow and Rickon, find the best matches you can for your four eldest kids.

I wouldn't find anyone to marry them as I will die before they are grown and the whole family will be spread over 2 continents. I will do what ned did and keep them close as long as possible 

 

[Greg B]

I mean, he and Robert had the right idea. The last thing he'd want to do is just marry his children within the Northern and Riverlands houses. This seems to have been a tradition (or tendency) during Targaryen rule, and it's one reason the kingdom fell apart after their dynasty was usurped: There were few marriage alliances between the seven kingdoms. If you want to have a unified realm, you either need an autocratic dynasty to hold it together, or you need to forge lasting bonds between the kingdoms. As it stands, the North has little in common and no ties to the Westerlands, the Reach and Dorne have warred against each other for thousands of years, etc.

So it's way past time (and in fact, too late, in the novels) to start forging those marriage alliances. Sansa and Joffrey is a given. Robb is the interesting one. My preference would be Margaery Tyrell. With children binding together Baratheon, Lannister, Stark, and Tyrell, a unified kingdom has a shot even without the Targaryens. Really, all this shit should have been worked out before the rebellion. You know, you gotta have a plan for stabilization and nation-building before you execute the regime-change.

 

[Fisch]

19 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

For the people suggesting Alys Karstark, she was already promised to Daryn Hornwood. It just didn't happen because he died before she had flowered.

As to who I would have picked:

Robb= Wynafrid Manderly. The richest and possibly second most powerful house in the North is exactly the house I'd want to tie closer to Winterfell against any enemies of House Stark.

Sansa= Andar Royce. Yohn is clearly a friend of mine, Sansa has an idea of being a lady, she thought Waymar was handsome, so I'm assuming that Andar Royce will fit the bill perfectly. Not to mention that Sansa will be living in the safety of the Vale, close to her aunt.

Bran= Meera Reed. Ned and Howland are old friends, so why not wed our children together? It'll tie in perfectly with my plans for Bran.

Arya= This one is tricky. If there was a Mormont boy available, he'd have been perfect, but with that in mind, I guess I'll have to go with Cley Cerwyn. He'd be familiar with Arya and would at least know what to expect with her. She'd be able to hold her own with him.

And I know we didn't have to arrange one for Rickon, but I don't care;

Rickon= Beth Cassel. The Cassels have served us well for a long time, and they deserve a jump upwards in rank for their young child. It might be a bit awkward for them, given that they grow up together, plus the fact that she's six years older than him, but I think it could work.

I assume that Jon will still go to the Wall, so I intend to keep Robb, Bran, and Rickon close by so that Robb can take his seat at Winterfell after me. Over time, I'll send Rickon to the Gift to build a new keep and gather new settlements around it. Bran will eventually go down to Moat Cailin with Meera and oversee its repair so that he can take it as his seat as a masterly branch-off from the Winterfell Starks. Plus, if Jojen doesn't produce any children, Bran's kids would inherit Greywater Watch.

I'd broadly agree with all of this. except that I might follow BanzaiZ's idea for Sansa, and maybe sending Arya to Dorne.

Actually, with Arya - I don't know if Ned would ever do this (and Cat would definitely not be cool with it) but with the Mormonts as a precedent, you could send her to foster with them, and install her as one of the new lords of the Gift in spring. Jon could be made one too, as he once thought about.

[BanzaiZ]

Just now, Fisch said:

I'd broadly agree with all of this. except that I might follow BanzaiZ's idea for Sansa, and maybe sending Arya to Dorne.

Actually, with Arya - I don't know if Ned would ever do this (and Cat would definitely not be cool with it) but with the Mormonts as a precedent, you could send her to foster with them, and install her as one of the new lords of the Gift in spring. Jon could be made one too, as he once thought about.

I think it's bizarre the older kids hadn't already been fostered out. Sending Arya to the Mormonts would have done her a world of good. Robb to the Karstarks or Umbers, Sansa to the Manderly's, Bran to the Reeds and Arya to the Mormonts. When Rickon is old enough, you can send him to a mountain clan, the Ryswells, or the Glovers. Get the kids out of the castle for at least a few years to learn about the territory, duties, what life is like outside of Winterfell. I know Ned wanted his family close, but FFS. You can even foster them without sending them out of the North.

[Nevets]

1 hour ago, Greg B said:

I mean, he and Robert had the right idea. The last thing he'd want to do is just marry his children within the Northern and Riverlands houses. This seems to have been a tradition (or tendency) during Targaryen rule, and it's one reason the kingdom fell apart after their dynasty was usurped: There were few marriage alliances between the seven kingdoms. If you want to have a unified realm, you either need an autocratic dynasty to hold it together, or you need to forge lasting bonds between the kingdoms. As it stands, the North has little in common and no ties to the Westerlands, the Reach and Dorne have warred against each other for thousands of years, etc.

So it's way past time (and in fact, too late, in the novels) to start forging those marriage alliances. Sansa and Joffrey is a given. Robb is the interesting one. My preference would be Margaery Tyrell. With children binding together Baratheon, Lannister, Stark, and Tyrell, a unified kingdom has a shot even without the Targaryens. Really, all this shit should have been worked out before the rebellion. You know, you gotta have a plan for stabilization and nation-building before you execute the regime-change.

 

I agree with this.  Ned is quite popular in the North, so he doesn't really have to shore up his alliances there.  And that's what marriage at this social level is all about: alliances and relationships.  I am going to go off of what Ned knows at this point.

Robb - I would try for Margaery Tyrell, but I suspect that Mace wouldn't go for it.  He is too ambitious, and Winterfell is too remote for a girl like Margaery.  So I will go with one of the Manderlys; either Wynafryd or Wylla.

Sansa - Joffrey is a good idea.  Too bad he is a sociopath and a bastard.  Maybe Margaery gets Joffrey and you can match Sansa with Tommen or Renly, or even Trystane Martell.

Arya - Probably want someone high-ranking who won't care about her eccentricities.  Robert Arryn (Ned's close friend's son) is a good possibility.  While Arya wouldn't want to play nursemaid, his weakness might give her more scope to be in charge.  Other possibilities include Trystane Martell or Edric Dayne.

Bran - If he doesn't join the KG, Bethany Blackwood or one of the Mormont girls would work.

I assume Jon would join the NW and Rickon is too young (as are Arya and Bran, actually).  I wouldn't go near the Freys.  Nobody likes them or trusts them and he doesn't really need to marry into them.  Rickon might be a possibility if that became necessary, though.  So, final choices;

Robb - Wylla Manderly

Sansa - Joffrey

Arya - Robert Arryn

Bran - KG

Jon - NW

[The Dames do Moan]

2 hours ago, Greg B said:

So it's way past time (and in fact, too late, in the novels) to start forging those marriage alliances. Sansa and Joffrey is a given. Robb is the interesting one. My preference would be Margaery Tyrell. With children binding together Baratheon, Lannister, Stark, and Tyrell, a unified kingdom has a shot even without the Targaryens. Really, all this shit should have been worked out before the rebellion. You know, you gotta have a plan for stabilization and nation-building before you execute the regime-change.

 

Which rebillion are you talking about? Not Robert's rebellion right? Because they did marry between all the allies and then after brought in the Lannisters with Cersei. He even brought in The Reach post war with the Florent marriage to Stannis. IMO I think that also served as a warning the the Tyrells for supporting Aerys. They didn't really have kids yet to marry off.

Now, if your talking about Robb Stark's rebellion then he kind of did. He wouldn't of been able to get Margaery, like someone pointed out, they had plans for her before and after she joined Renly. He couldn't betroth Sansa, she was a captive.  He and Arya were bethrothed to the Frey's in an attempt for allies. Bran was crippled at that point but he could of tried to shore up his Northern support I guess and Rickon was to young. In the Riverlands Edmure was than engaged to a Frey and BF wouldn't marry. They didn't really have any pieces he could move around. If they Vale joined then he SweetRobin would've been a good offer but alas they didn't.

Maybe he could of offered Theon Sansa but I don't think that changes much after Theon goes back to the Iron Islands.

[zandru]

There are quite a few of you suggesting Arya pair up with little "Sweetrobin" Arryn. Remember, this suggestion was a jape by the Hound, who knew exactly what a pathetic match this would be. After all, he'd spent years around Robert and Lysa Arryn in King's Landing, and months in close proximity to Arya. Arya + Robin is just sarcasm.

Little Robin has delusions of Lord of the Vale-hood; while on paper, he's the "Lord", he really should have been given ZERO power until he came of age, and be under a regency until then. Instead, he's become a frail, spoiled, petty and vindictive little invalid who's prone to seizures and who enjoys ordering executions and fights to the death. Rather than giving Arya free rein, she would be at his mercy (hint: there isn't any), and she doesn't have the patience to coax, sweet talk, and manipulate little Robert the way Sansa has. In short, Arya probably wouldn't last through the marriage ceremony - she'd end up "flying."

[UnViserion]

Robb - Margery Tyrell, very good match with a powerful southern house 

Jon - Legitimised & married to Arianne Martell (enormous longshot, obviously Book!Ned would never, ever do this)

Sansa - Joffrey Baratheon, makes her future queen of Westeros.

Arya - a young Northern Lord, not sure who though

Bran - Lyanna Mormont, why not

Rickon - a young Northern Lady, not sure who though

[Greg B]

44 minutes ago, The Dames do Moan said:

Which rebillion are you talking about? Not Robert's rebellion right? Because they did marry between all the allies and then after brought in the Lannisters with Cersei.

I'm really talking about what happened all those years before Robert's Rebellion. I don't know all the marriages, and won't pretend. What I do know is that if you look at the Lannister family tree, starting with Tywin marrying his cousin and working backwards, you look at the Starks always marrying in the North, starting with Rickard marrying his cousin, his father marrying a Locke...I guess his father married the Vale, so that's something...Rodwell married a Manderly, Brandon married a Karstark, etc. Throughout the Targaryen reign, there appears to have been very little effort to forge political bonds between the different kingdoms via marriage. Politically, as judged by their marriages, the seven kingdoms remained seven distinct kingdoms "united" only by a conquering dynasty.

So when Robert's Rebellion happened, you still had seven distinct kingdoms with few political ties...and then you removed the conquering dynasty from the equation. The only thing holding this unified "Seven Kingdoms" together was the marriage of Cersei and Robert, and "their issue." When that unraveled, there was nothing else to hold the "Seven Kingdoms" together. Had those alliances between the kingdoms already been forged across generations, the "Seven Kingdoms" might have even survived the incest scandal and ensuing succession crisis.

Point being, if I was Ned, I'd have cursed my ancestors for not doing it long ago ("Damn you, at least my brother and I were willing to marry into the Riverlands!"), but I'd have married my issue into the other Great Houses as quickly as I could do it. Again, Sansa and Joffrey was correct, perfect really, but I'd have wanted to do the same with Tyrell, at least, and perhaps Dorne if I could. I doubt I'd have bothered to try with Greyjoy as long as Balon and his crazy brothers were alive.

 

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Ok, if I were Ned I woudashdahahaarrghhhh....

[Martin Lasarte]

A double marriage: Margaery and Willas Tyrell with Robb and Sansa.

Arya and Trystane Martell (Dorne, with its tradition to give women larger freedom, would be the perfect place for her).

Bran and Shireen Baratheon (she's the heir to Dragonstone, so that would allow Bran to have his own castle).

If Jon doesn't join the Night's Watch, I might try to marry him to Joy Hill. They are both bastards who nonetheless are treated as members of the Stark and Lannister families, so it would be an even match.

[Winter's Cold]

2 hours ago, zandru said:

There are quite a few of you suggesting Arya pair up with little "Sweetrobin" Arryn. Remember, this suggestion was a jape by the Hound, who knew exactly what a pathetic match this would be. After all, he'd spent years around Robert and Lysa Arryn in King's Landing, and months in close proximity to Arya. Arya + Robin is just sarcasm.

Little Robin has delusions of Lord of the Vale-hood; while on paper, he's the "Lord", he really should have been given ZERO power until he came of age, and be under a regency until then. Instead, he's become a frail, spoiled, petty and vindictive little invalid who's prone to seizures and who enjoys ordering executions and fights to the death. Rather than giving Arya free rein, she would be at his mercy (hint: there isn't any), and she doesn't have the patience to coax, sweet talk, and manipulate little Robert the way Sansa has. In short, Arya probably wouldn't last through the marriage ceremony - she'd end up "flying."

The match wouldn't occur in the first place because Arya would reject him and Ned would liklely acquiesce. Arya is also quite capable of manipulating others as we see with Jacquen. She also knows when to hold her tongue in dangerous situations. Sansa's ability to control Sweetrobin comes from the fact that she looks similar to his mother and his young age (he's 7) rather than her own personal ability. Her coaxing and sweet talking wasn't very effective with Joffrey after all.

 

Arya would only agree to marry someone that she both respects and likes. That eliminates Joffrey, Sweetrobin, and Theon. Assuming that she'd prefer to stay in the North, then her most likely marriage partners are Cley Cerwyn and Benfred Tallhart. If she wants to go South, then her most likely marriage partners are Edric Dayne, Trystane Martell and Patrek Mallister.

[Burning down the House]

I'm supposed to be Ned.  So I assume I will not be setting up marriages to play the game of thrones.  My goal will be to secure the North and my families place in it.  Therefore I will want one marriage with a major house in the south and the rest with my banner men.  

 

Robb marries Wynafryd Manderly.  An alliance with my most powerful and wealthy vassal is a must.  Also she has a real chance to be Lady or White Harbor in her own right some day.  This makes her an even better match.

Sansa marries Jojen Reed.  Heir to a house with a strategic location for protecting the north from invasion.  

 Arya loses out and marries Robert Arryn.  Having the knights of the Vale on your side can never be a bad thing.

Bran marries Eddara Tallhart.  Bring another major northern house into the fold.

 

 

 

[Endymion I Targaryen]

Robb - Myrcella.The idea of a Baratheon-Stark wedding was one of Robert's best ideas but Ned didn't like Joffrey very much.If Ned wanted a Northern bride for his heir, then Winafryd Manderly.

Sansa - Joffrey (if Robb-Myrcella didn't happen)/Andar Royce

Arya - Theon.Ned should tie Theon to the Starks somehow.

Bran - Wylla Mandrely

Rickon - Erena Glover

[1000th Lord Commander]

Given Ned's aversion to the politics of the south, I'm going to take an isolationist stance. It would fit with his charecter

 

If Jon is really Eddard's bastard son, the Wall is a good place for him. The other option would for him to be a close advisor to Robb, in a position where he could marry a girl one day, but I can understand Cat's aversion to the idea. Another option would be to get him to help people settle the Gift.

Robb is the heir, and as such, needs a woman from a good house. One of the Mormonts would be my inclination, to try and mend ties with the house. Also First Men, which should be appealing.

Sansa is a tricky one. She isn't going to be happy anywhere in the North. The only Northern house that follows the Fatih is the Manderlys, and Sansa would reject them. Probably the Royces. First Men house, close enough to the North for visits, respected in Winterfell.

Bran we would look for a heiress, to let him inherit a house in his own right. Really, I would have given him the Hornwood inheritance in ACoK. Presuming Jorjen dies as planned, Meera.

Arya is another difficult one. Wilful and wild, she needs somewhere that will be more tolerant of her. Edric Dayne of Starfall. Provides close ties with a powerful Dornish house, and lets Arya run in a  more tolerant Dorne. I don't like the fact she is so far away, but it can't really be helped.

Rickon can do the same stuff as Jon, but only after Robb has had his first children. After that, his ability to inherit drops sharply

[the conquering bastard 25]

On 4/27/2016 at 5:44 PM, The Dames do Moan said:

I mean, It probably depends on what your goal is in marrying off your children. Assuming he just wants them to be happy, or wants to strengthen his position in the North, or does he know Joffrey / Tommen is a fraud and want to create allies for a rebillion.

I'm going to assume he wants to start a rebellion in 3 to 7 years to place Stannis on the iron throne ( and not declare themselves Kings of the North)

Robb - Shireen, would have to keep the Baratheon name as well and ensure Stannis names Shireen heir and not Renly. He would be King after Stannis dies, and I don't think Stannis would accept anyone but Ned's first born. After the war you even make sure that Stannis is "taken care of" ala Lysa and Jon Arryn, so no sons are born to him. Any future offspring you can call Stark with Stannis gone.

Sansa - Theon - I believe this was always his plan, raise Theon as a friend to house Stark and marry Sansa to turn the IRon Islands into friends rather than foes.

Arya - Sweet Robin - went back and forth between Sweet Robin and Edmure. You want the Vale to support the war and with Arya I think they would, plus I think Edmure and the Riverlands support you regardless. Obviously in this scenario you are getting rid of Lysa in a hurry and maybe having Cat help out as protector.

Bran - Wynafryd Manderly - important to note that Bran is now the heir to Winterfell and future Lord Paramount of the North because Robb is now in position to be King with Shireen. Secures White Harbours support w/ it's income and starts to sure up the North.

Rickon - Roslin Frey - Sure up one of the biggest Riverland supporters and the relations with the crossing. I was thinking about matching the Freys with Bran but I don't think the Northern houses would appreciate that.

Jon - Arrianne Martell - First I would have King Stannis legitimize  Jon (not in the WF line of succession though). Bastards are not looked at as poorly in Dorne either. Obviously you let Doran know about the plot to rebel against the Iron Thorne knowing that he holds a grudge too. With half the kingdoms in rebellion I don't think he sits out and I def don't think he allies with the crown.

You would have the North behind you, The Vale, Riverlands with Edmure supporting you and the Freys appeased, Iron Islands and their Navy, Dorne with Jon (maybe), Stormlands as well who would back Stannis. You may even get some of the crownlands as well. With literally every kingdom in pocket I don't think the Tyrell's join with the crown, they may just sit out but who knows.

as they say hindsight is 20/20.

You must be crazy if you think Ned Stark is going to let Robb Stark forgo his Stark name with its 8000 lineage for what an upstart house that is only important because Olys Baratheon removed the last king/queen of the Stormlands. That would never happen. Even if Ned was stupid enough to even propose such his northern vassals would string his ass up. Bears island knows of no King but the King in the North and his name is STARK! The long night would come go and come again before the Starks would let their LP take a different name. The north prides its self on being apart.

So with foreknowledge in mind.

Robb to heiress Lefford. The gold tooth is the guard against the Trident into the West. Not to mention huge dowry. I cant remeber if she had brothers but...having split loyaties in the west can only  help Ned and Robb when they go south to play their game.

Sansa actually i would have her wed Tyrion Lannister. One day she would be lady of the Rock and agsin split loyaties go along way. Along with the fact that once Sansa has a kid there would be no more need to Tyrion. Sansacould rule through said child.

Ayra- Trystene Martell or Ned Dayne. The Martells because their is thks huge gap between Dorne and the North. The Lannisters killed Elia and kids. This might be away to heal the wounds of the past. Ayra would be happier in Dorne with its more open-minded attitude towards women. Ayra and thr Sand Snakes would get along famously and i could see Adrianna and Ayra being very close.

Bran prefall-  marcella Baratheon.Gives a link to the new dynasty. Keeps one child at court and with an ear in the Red Keep. Can push northern affairs with the king. Not to mention if something were to happen to Joffery and Tommen well Bran becomes king consort.

This leaves Rickon and Jon Snow.

For Rickon Lady E. Hayford. Lord in his own right not bad for third son close to KL. 

Jon Snow- well thats tough. Given his Stark lineage and close ties to Robb i would find a northern house. Karstarks daughter mayhaps. Yet that might piss the north off as the only kid that gets a Starks can offer is a bastard. Asha Greyjoy maybe as the iron island and north could definitely use some unity. Also it gets Jon out of the north. You know the saying out of sight out of mind. This should ease Cats mind about the succession. While this next one is far fetch it nvr hurts to make an offer. Margery Tyrell. Yeah i know hes a bastard. But made legit and if lands were found for him. It might appeal to Mace to have his daughter close to Robert and his ilk without actually marrying into the Royal family. I am saying now I know its a long shot and likely nvr to happen. Or Myranda Royce. Junior branch her father k kws ned from his time in the Vale and the Royce and Starks have a close relationship and bloodties.

These are the marriages id make given my crystal ball and knowing the events that are about to kick off

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Robb - Margaery Tyrell

Sansa - Trystane Martell or Theon Greyjoy

Arya - Edric Dayne or a legitimized Gendry (whose education and training have been taken over by Ned)

Bran - Lyanna Mormont or Meera Reed

Rickon - one of the Blackwood girls or Ermesande Hayford

Jon - Wylla Manderly, Alys Karstark, or Joy Hill

 

These options give them ties to the Reach, Dorne, the Stormlands or Iron Islands, the Riverlands, and possibly the Westerlands, but without snubbing the North, as Bran marries a northerner no matter who the others get. Jon with Joy Hill would give them an in with the Lannisters, even bastard to bastard blood still counts for something, especially if one or both were to be legitimized.

 

[Sullen]

Robb - Myrcella (Prestige, ties to the royal family, pleases both me and Robert)

Sansa - Theon (Ties Theon to the family some more, I'd act warmly towards him as well unlike Eddard, secures an alliance with the Iron Islands)

Arya - Probably Wendell Manderly (Reinforces bonds with the strongest Stark vassal)

Bran - No one, he's training to become a member of the Kingsguard

Rickon - Too young, don't know who would make a good match

Jon - Back to the Night's Watch you go.

[The Dames do Moan]

2 hours ago, the conquering bastard 25 said:

as they say hindsight is 20/20.

You must be crazy if you think Ned Stark is going to let Robb Stark forgo his Stark name with its 8000 lineage for what an upstart house that is only important because Olys Baratheon removed the last king/queen of the Stormlands. That would never happen. Even if Ned was stupid enough to even propose such his northern vassals would string his ass up. Bears island knows of no King but the King in the North and his name is STARK! The long night would come go and come again before the Starks would let their LP take a different name. The north prides its self on being apart.

So with foreknowledge in mind.

Except Ned did betrothe Sansa to Joffrey knowing Joff was terrible and would prob end up abusing her. So Ned clearly had Southern ambitions too. Bran becomes LP in this scenario and he obviously keeps the name Stark.

Like you said, using hindsight, we know Ned was willing to sacrifice his kids if it meant getting closer to the throne. I mean his sister in law killed his "father figure" and he became hand. 

So he can have Robb "give up" the Stark name for the war, knowing that the plan after the war is to kill Stannis and after Shireen is sworn in (as Stannis had named her heir) have Robb, Shireen and offspring take the name back.