Why and Where does the Dany/Jon love theory com from?

[Ser Knute]

10 minutes ago, The Dames do Moan said:

 

It actually doesn't have anything to do with misogyny in this situation. Assuming Jon's legitimate of-course. Not saying that succession in Westeros isn't in general, but in this situation it isn't.

Assuming he's legitimate and R+L=J, then it wouldn't matter if Dany was a male or a female. Jon would have a better claim then her, the same way Aegon has a better claim if he is truely legitimate. If Viserys was alive Jon would have a better claim then him as well.

Big or Little Walder (forget which) said it to Bran in Winterfell 

"The son's son comes before the Brother"

So legally the crown would pass from Aerys II to Rhaegar then to Rhaegar's kids. So Aegon first because he is older and then Jon. After that goes to Aerys next son, so Viserys. Assuming Dany was male, she would come next. 

 

Thanks for the correction!  I only meant in general towards successions that males have been favored and typically are in most of the 7k.

I don't forsee this coming down to a succession issue anyway, this'll be pure conquest.

[Paxter Redwyne]

2 hours ago, Hos the Hostage said:

Speaking of 'natural' main guy - main girl match up, why no one ever ships Dany with Tyrion?

He is ugly dwarf without nose who notoriously drinks. Dany would sooner wed Strong Belwas. lel

[Drogonthedread]

8 hours ago, Hos the Hostage said:

Some thoughts:

> Speaking of 'natural' main guy - main girl match up, why no one ever ships Dany with Tyrion?

> The best Westerosi husband for Dany was Robb :'( Right age, good alliance, only if they forgot the past and listened to wiser elders.. He even got the blue eyes she likes so much.

> I see so many fans opposing Jon-Dany marriage because (i) They hate Dany and love Jon (ii) They like Dany but want her to end up with someone else (Jorah, FAegon, etc).  (iii) The main guy  weds main girl is a literary trope.

I agree with the third category, but the other two irritates me. I am curious as to how Martin will write Jon-Dany interactions, but I am open-minded as to anything that happen - they might end up killing each other, or loving each other, but I trust GRRM to write it in a believable way. I hope that it won't be like her marriage with Hizdahr, Robb's marriage with Jeyne, or Catelyn's kidnapping of Tyrion - all of which upset the fans of these characters (I stopped being Cat fan after that move).

> Why people think Jon and Dany may end up together, other than conventional expectations:

• House of the Undying prophesies about 'ride to love',  'fire to love', treason for love, all seem related to Jon.
• Dany has a dream about lying with a man with ice-cold manhood, and Bran's visions about Jon show him losing all warmth. Jon becoming an ice-zombie or night king type character is well studied.
• Both characters' story arcs run parallel with many similarities. As mentioned above. But how they deal with those situations are different, which is part of the reason many people dislike Dany.
• There are signs of complementing personalities if you put the effort to look for them, like how Dany has what Jon wanted as a child (titles, conqueror streak) and Jon had what Dany always wanted (home, family). But there are also signs why they would never work, which is why I am simply waiting for GRRM to write it out his way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well you answered yourself why there is no dany and tyrion ship with your post about why there exists Jon and dany pairing ...which there is you only have to look into the forums lots of people tyrion will marry dany .

About your second last point thats exactly the reason people dislike dany because she acts smarter than Jon who had all the studies  in those situation and clearly misunderstanding her character as a whole. .

 

And to the OP speaking about character having taste ..I bet ygritte and val are such a saint. 

You know what's more ridiculous wet dream than a jon and dany shipping is.   That Jon is above dany and he will  judge her and how dany is not worthy for jon 

[The Dames do Moan]

6 hours ago, Ser Knute said:

Thanks for the correction!  I only meant in general towards successions that males have been favored and typically are in most of the 7k.

I don't forsee this coming down to a succession issue anyway, this'll be pure conquest.

Oh yeah, for sure on both points. 

if the Iron Throne is still there when they meet up?!?!

[blckp]

23 hours ago, The Dames do Moan said:

 

It actually doesn't have anything to do with misogyny in this situation. Assuming Jon's legitimate of-course. Not saying that succession in Westeros isn't in general, but in this situation it isn't.

Assuming he's legitimate and R+L=J, then it wouldn't matter if Dany was a male or a female. Jon would have a better claim then her, the same way Aegon has a better claim if he is truely legitimate. If Viserys was alive Jon would have a better claim then him as well.

Big or Little Walder (forget which) said it to Bran in Winterfell 

"The son's son comes before the Brother"

So legally the crown would pass from Aerys II to Rhaegar then to Rhaegar's kids. So Aegon first because he is older and then Jon. After that goes to Aerys next son, so Viserys. Assuming Dany was male, she would come next. 

 

huh? what... lol

 

viserys was named prince/heir after rhaegar died , and after king aerys died he was crowned as king by queen rhaella , later viserys named dany as heir, which danys claim comes from

dany has best claim unless robert was legit heir not unsurper , just because she is woman some bastard of non king have better claim than her is ridiculous ,

daenerys is strong willed woman , i doubt she will accept this because woman reason

Quote

What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years.

1

 

 

[GravyFace]

"daughter of dragons, bride of dragons, mother of dragons"

I think there's a reason that Jon and Dany have had totally parallel journeys throughout the books. Like Kit said, they're either going fight or f*ck. I'd say there's a 50-50 shot of either.

[blckp]

stannis had claim

viserys had claim

renly had claim

etc honestly all this claim is useless,  without might all useless, thats why dany waiting her dragons to grow and gathering army,

when she sails to westeros i would love to see what fools would oppose her , when giant dragons knocking their door

 

 

[Ser Knute]

Well to be fair the issue could come up in a couple of ways. 

If Aegon is believed legit then his supporters will back his claim while those that reject or doubt his legitimacy might in turn back Dany's claim, and it'll be rather hard to deny she's the blood of the dragon.

Secondly... if in some weird twist there isn't initially a dance 2.0 due to the realm being so devastated from the WotFK and the onset of Winter there's a small chance that a council could be called if the IT is sort of vacant.  Of course this is presuming a lot... possibly Cersei destroying the Red Keep and/or KL via the wildfyre caches... or possibly overrun by Others.  Slim chance but possible.

 

[JonisHenryTudor]

15 hours ago, Yoren "The Wanderly Crow" said:

I always believe that it may end up as a main guy and main girl match up (As in: Jon Ice and Dany Fire) but i don't think so now.

When GRRM speaks about fights or sword play he often describes the clash of steel swords as a "song"..as in "the song of steel on steel as the two fought".

It's this that makes me think Jon is TPTWP and his purpose / destiny is "a song of ice and fire" (his purpose is to command in the battle of Ice and Fire) rather than him being Ice (Stark) & Fire (Targ).

See I have always taken it to go back to Lyanna and Rhaegar. Jon is the song, and Lyanna is Ice and Rhaegar Fire. 

 

And yes... I am one of those who think the Dance with Dragons is between Jon and Dany (I know very few fall here). Hey some believe Jon leads the WW's. 

 

But...The reality is this. Those who adore Dany want the union, and those who dislike her find reasons why they are not going to unify. What actually happens? I don't think there are really any clues to suggest one way or the other. Sure...you can find parallels. In that case, Jon might as well marry the hound since both were "outcasts" and in the shadows of another... why not.. there is a parallel.... At the moment, the two are just too far from each other to really suggest anything. 

 

You can argue the political marriage. That makes sense, especially one that makes people uncomfortable, which is Jon and Sansa. Sansa always wanted her "knight in shinning armor", and little did she know that man was in WF right under her nose. She is Stark and Tully. Jon is both Stark and Targ, but fathered by a Targ. Their marriage would unify the north. You can also make the same argument for Jon and Dany, but again...they are two worlds apart so... Then there is Arya. 

[LordManderlyAsDragonRider]

For me, the biggest reason I don't want Jon and Dany to end up together is that they are most likely aunt and nephew!

Im fine with cousins marrying, but aunt-nephew is a closer blood relation and it just seems really really wrong.

[TheNecromancerofMirkwood]

4 hours ago, LordManderlyAsDragonRider said:

For me, the biggest reason I don't want Jon and Dany to end up together is that they are most likely aunt and nephew!

Im fine with cousins marrying, but aunt-nephew is a closer blood relation and it just seems really really wrong.

And yet it is perfectly in line with Targaryen custom......

[Soneji]

On 5/4/2016 at 11:55 PM, Alaynsa Starne said:

Generally speaking, shipping has more to do with feelings than rational thought. And I don't mean that in a derogatory sense at all. But if you're looking for logic in a ship, I'd wager you'd be hard-pressed to find some. 

I am fine with shipping them and enjoying fanworks of them. The people who actually want this to happen in the books are the ones I have issue with, same as those who want Tyrion as a dragon rider among other things. Keep your wish fulfillment out of ASoIaF, it destroys what makes this series great. 

[bb1180]

8 hours ago, blckp said:

huh? what... lol

viserys was named prince/heir after rhaegar died , and after king aerys died he was crowned as king by queen rhaella , later viserys named dany as heir, which danys claim comes from

dany has best claim unless robert was legit heir not unsurper , just because she is woman some bastard of non king have better claim than her is ridiculous ,

daenerys is strong willed woman , i doubt she will accept this because woman reason

 

 

Its messy,  but he's right.  If Jon is legitimate,  he would actually be higher in the order of succession and have a better claim than Dany.  Rhaegar is Aerys' heir.  We all know that much.  However,  Rhaegar's children are also Rhaegar's heirs, and anything due Rhaegar upon Aerys' death would be inherited by Rhaegar's children BEFORE it falls to Rhaegar's siblings.  Hence,  Rhaegar's children...male or female...are actually higher in the order of succession than either Dany OR Viserys.

Whether Dany would accept it is another question entirely,  though I think not.

 

[bb1180]

6 hours ago, JonisHenryTudor said:

See I have always taken it to go back to Lyanna and Rhaegar. Jon is the song, and Lyanna is Ice and Rhaegar Fire. 

 

And yes... I am one of those who think the Dance with Dragons is between Jon and Dany (I know very few fall here). Hey some believe Jon leads the WW's. 

 

But...The reality is this. Those who adore Dany want the union, and those who dislike her find reasons why they are not going to unify. What actually happens? I don't think there are really any clues to suggest one way or the other. Sure...you can find parallels. In that case, Jon might as well marry the hound since both were "outcasts" and in the shadows of another... why not.. there is a parallel.... At the moment, the two are just too far from each other to really suggest anything. 

 

You can argue the political marriage. That makes sense, especially one that makes people uncomfortable, which is Jon and Sansa. Sansa always wanted her "knight in shinning armor", and little did she know that man was in WF right under her nose. She is Stark and Tully. Jon is both Stark and Targ, but fathered by a Targ. Their marriage would unify the north. You can also make the same argument for Jon and Dany, but again...they are two worlds apart so... Then there is Arya. 

There's not a whole lot I can add.  This is pretty much how I see it playing out. 

[The Dames do Moan]

9 hours ago, blckp said:

huh? what... lol

 

viserys was named prince/heir after rhaegar died , and after king aerys died he was crowned as king by queen rhaella , later viserys named dany as heir, which danys claim comes from

dany has best claim unless robert was legit heir not unsurper , just because she is woman some bastard of non king have better claim than her is ridiculous ,

daenerys is strong willed woman , i doubt she will accept this because woman reason

 

 

The fact that Jon would have a better legal claim was clearly with the assumption that he was legitimate, so not a bastard. I'm not saying Dany will accept it or that she should accept it. Or that it's even true. I don't think it will actually play any impact down the road.

Rarely does the "legal" claim have much merit. But the son's son comes before the brother. It's not a misogyny thing, it'd be the same if she was male. Most of the inheritance laws in Westeros are, but that one isn't, seeing as it's the same regardless of gender.

[Drogonthedread]

7 hours ago, JonisHenryTudor said:

See I have always taken it to go back to Lyanna and Rhaegar. Jon is the song, and Lyanna is Ice and Rhaegar Fire. 

 

And yes... I am one of those who think the Dance with Dragons is between Jon and Dany (I know very few fall here). Hey some believe Jon leads the WW's. 

 

But...The reality is this. Those who adore Dany want the union, and those who dislike her find reasons why they are not going to unify. What actually happens? I don't think there are really any clues to suggest one way or the other. Sure...you can find parallels. In that case, Jon might as well marry the hound since both were "outcasts" and in the shadows of another... why not.. there is a parallel.... At the moment, the two are just too far from each other to really suggest anything. 

 

You can argue the political marriage. That makes sense, especially one that makes people uncomfortable, which is Jon and Sansa. Sansa always wanted her "knight in shinning armor", and little did she know that man was in WF right under her nose. She is Stark and Tully. Jon is both Stark and Targ, but fathered by a Targ. Their marriage would unify the north. You can also make the same argument for Jon and Dany, but again...they are two worlds apart so... Then there is Arya. 

Yeah some believe jon leads WW .

But even then he will fight and rid of the evil queen with three dragons.

Even if he joins WW his the nice guy and dany is ultimate evil there will ever be 

[Damon_Tor]

The House of the Undying

On 5/1/2016 at 9:50 AM, norwaywolf123 said:

1. They interpret the House of the Undying prophecy in a specific way. Dany sees a blue rose growing out of the Wall that fills the air with "sweetness," and a lot of people think this flower symbolizes Jon and the "sweetness" means that she and Jon will fall in love. Less noticed is that sweetness and sweet smells are repeatedly used as anegative in the story in general and for Dany in particular.

More relevant: that stanza is the "bride of fire" stanza and the first line of it appears to be a reference to her marriage with Drogo. It's not difficult to conclude that this stanza is specifically referencing three marriages. The blue rose in a wall of ice is a clear reference to Jon Snow. "Filling the air with sweetness" doesn't seem to be the important element.

It's been my hypothesis for some time that the entire prophecy is about three children Dany will have: the Bride of Fire stanza is specifically about the fathers of those children, but the rest of it ties into the three children in some way.

[LordManderlyAsDragonRider]

5 hours ago, TheNecromancerofMirkwood said:

And yet it is perfectly in line with Targaryen custom......

Yes, I'm sure Dany would not think it too strange, not sure what Jon's opinion would be.

But I was talking about the point of view of the readers. There does seem to be a lot of fans who ship Jon and Dany, despite the fact that I'm sure most of us comes from societies where sleeping with your aunt or oncle is considered wrong.

 

[TheNecromancerofMirkwood]

Awww, but they would make the cutest couple!

[norwaywolf123]

On 4.5.2016 at 8:21 PM, Hos the Hostage said:

Some thoughts:

> Speaking of 'natural' main guy - main girl match up, why no one ever ships Dany with Tyrion?

Becouse Tyrion is ugly and a dwarf

On 4.5.2016 at 8:21 PM, Hos the Hostage said:

> The best Westerosi husband for Dany was Robb :'( Right age, good alliance, only if they forgot the past and listened to wiser elders.. He even got the blue eyes she likes so much.

If you think about age and stuff even Lancel would have been a good match

Robb:

- Wrong religon

- From a diffrent culture

- Less Strategic than a Tyrell or Lannister (The only houses with enough power or status in southern westeros)

Better choices for Dany would/could have been Willas Tyrell, Garlan Tyrell, Loras Tyrell, Renly Baratheon, Jaime Lannister, Tywin Lannister, fAegon