[Spoilers] EP602

[Spilt Pea Soup]

6 hours ago, Fisch said:

 

- "The Umbers and the Manderlys belong to us...."

http://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6pk95rQTC1ratb45o1_500.gif

No, really, why? Of all the Houses you could have picked, you pick the two where this new-found loyalty is in greatest contradiction to their book counterparts. You don't even bother throwing in the hostages held at the Twins as a motive. There are a lot of pointless changes made in this show, but this is just dumb. In more ways than one, as others have explained very well. If you watch the "Inside the Episode," you'll see Benioff try and argue that the Bolton's hold on the North is "precarious." Mr. Benioff - you seem like the more pleasant of the Ds, but you saying that in an ItE segment is no substitute for, y'know, showing it on screen, and you had plenty of material that could've shown it that you threw out the window.

 

It is quite possible there is some double-crossing and The North Remembers going on behind the scenes.   Roose laid the groundwork for this with his "mad dog" comment.  Too early to referee this plot turn, isn't it?  As Robert Jordan might have said, WAFO. 

[Smoke317]

18 hours ago, Tinker Tanner said:

I liked the bit at Pyke when that strong gust of wind violently swung the bridge making Balon grab for the rail, but Euron didn't even flinch. Got good sea legs on him.

Me too. Really made Euron look like a badass. He never grabbed the rail once. 

[Grizzly Mormont]

52 minutes ago, diomedes30 said:

Where are HouseHarrison's reviews????

Dude, I'm checking this compulsively for the same reason. HouseHarrison, where are you? 

[HellasLEAF]

I thought the Tyrion scene was fantastically done.  One of the best parts of the episode if not the best.  And that's saying something.  

[Attitude]

14 hours ago, marsyao said:

 Many of the 'men of the nights watch' BEFORE THEY JOIN THE WATCH were thiefs, rapers, etc if you do not know the difference, I do not waste my time, I really do now want to waste my time to argue with you

 

A hint, NW is very much respected by people in Westero from high Lords to smallfolks,

And you really believe that after some training and a couple of words they suddenly are all men with great honor who would never betray the NW. 

The NW was in decline before Jon joined and it went worse and worse. They killed two LC's in a short period of time (book and show!), and you say they are all very loyal?

I'm sorry to see that you don't want to 'waste your time', but I got a feeling you just realised that you're dead wrong about this. Maybe use the saved time to read the books and watch the show, because it seems like you only read summary's.

10 hours ago, MercyTheBlindUglyLittleCat said:

To be fair, this episode continues the show (especially this season, and likely increasingly going forward) tradition of things happening with little regard to proper character motivation or logic. Brienne doesn't mention the Hound; Davos asks about resurrection; Theon wants to go "home"; we can understand WHY this is happening from a meta and narrative point of view, but not at all within the universe and character cohesive manner. This is the inevitable result of there no longer being a book to adapt for most of this, and just the fact that D&D have already made themselves accustomed to taking any and all shortcuts to get characters from A to B.

I can live with it just enough, but they best not push me too far. But yes, otherwise I thought this episode was great and showed promise for the Season going forward. Things are moving very fast. I like that, even while it comes with the poor consequences of what I detailed above.

You're right, but I get it. They need to move forward now, so they skip some details and make the decisions without any clear character development. They should've used S05 to create more character development.

Oh, pretty sure Brienne mentioned The hound, just not by name. 

9 hours ago, marsyao said:

What are you talking about, do you remember how NW brothers behaved in old bear's expedition  and their heroic defense of the war agains much worse Odd? and ... ok, whatever, I give up, I can stand this nonsense anymore

Lol, that expedition ended with them killing Craster (well I can't say that I hated that, but I agree with Mormont, they needed people like him for their expeditions) and their LC. I mean, yeah they follow their LC around, but when things get real they desert as soon as they see the chance. Even loyal bannerman in both the show and the books have deserted their Lords. For many, the only reason to listen to their LC is their fear of death. Once that is gone, they don't follow orders anymore. 

39 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Me too. Really made Euron look like a badass. He never grabbed the rail once. 

Agreed, however they should've done this scene in S03 or S04. 

[Barty]

1 hour ago, DJE said:

Yea, that was Rodrik, Lyanna, Benjen and Ned.

Too young to be Rodrik. Rodrik was around 60 in the series and 20 odd years ago (from the vision) he would have been 40 (that is much older than Ned when the series began). The guy overseeing Ned and Benjen did not seem to be more than a teenager to me. Brandon's supposed to be some sword fighting prodigy so isnt exactly impossible that he'd be training his brothers. 

[Morna The Maid]

.I just realized something going over the Ironborn plot. Instead of the book's all the Ironborn fighting over the Seastone Chair, in the show it's the Salt Throne.

Really? THE SALT THRONE?

 

Why did that name have to be changed? Huh? Do D/D realize how *stupid* that sounds? I got this image of a big white throne made entirely out of salt, like someone hoisted a huge-ass block of salt with massive tongs down in the throne room in Pyke, just plopped it down, "Here ya go," and the king  hired the local sculptors to carve a chair out of it. And it's not like someone hot and sweaty might not melt the salt chair down after long enough sitting in it.

*snark* Now I'm not sayin' George's name for the seat of the king of the II is brilliant either, but Seastone Chair has a ring to it that Salt Throne never will.

[Lord Buckethead]

On 2.5.2016 at 3:35 AM, Chloe.a.thomson said:

Roose apparently has more scruples than Thorne.

 

Or perhaps Roose just has more to lose in terms of consequences for killing off the LC? Making it unwise for him to kill Jon Snow, even if he wanted to? And his son Ramsay is less of long-game player than his father was?

I don't care much for Allisers way of seeing things, but I do believe that he at  least genuinely believes he is doing the right thing.  It is not really power hunger or hatred for Jon that drives him, or at least not just  that. He generally does what he thinks is best for the watch. 

Edited May 3, 2016 by Lord Buckethead

[ShadowKitteh]

17 hours ago, dbunting said:

Good episode.

Kings landing, just enough there to keep us up to date. Jaime and the Sparrow meeting was good, and yes Jaime could have killed him easily, to suggest otherwise is just silly. Jaime has been training for a long time now and the Sparrow has never trained and basically said he would offer no resistance.

Best Dorne scene ever!

Sansa and CO., yeah, I also think Theon is going back to Ramsey. He is like a battered person who thinks they have no place left to go. This could also be key in that he could be there for the attack and let the northern forces in the gates. Speaking of the Boltons, ehh who cares, Roose got what he had coming to him. Walda and the baby of course didn't deserve it but the plot must move forward.

Arya still getting along in her training. Wish they had gotten a cat involved though. I don't like how her warging has been left out.

Bran, I felt like the person who told Ned to give him another whack was the master of arms that Theon killed, he was just younger. I thought Robert and Ned met at when fostering. Good to see the Tower of Joy scene is next week, so do we get the whole answer to Jons parents next week? The same week he is revealed to be alive is he also confirmed to be a Prince? Also, did they confirm Bran will be a dragon rider? The 3 eyed raven told Bran he would fly some day. I assumed as a crow or raven while warging, I never thought Bran was going to leave the cave but they said this episode he will be leaving.

Mereen, I don't see in any way how this means Tyrion is partial Targaryen. He drinks and he knows things, this is what he does. He knows from history that dragons are intelligent and know who is the enemy and who is not. After all what good would they be in combat if they didn't? Unless I missed it there hasn't been the slightest clue in the show that he is anything but a Lannister.

The wall. Davos first, his devotion and asking Mel to bring Jon back is odd, they could have handled this better, like a scene last season where Mel talks to Davos and Stannis about what she saw with The Brotherhood. People saying they don't understand why the brothers laid down their arms? I am not surprised at all. A lot of them were loyal to Jon and feel he was murdered. The majority have never been honorable before so this is an easy excuse to lay down their arms while vastly outnumbered and unprepared, and oh yeah don't forget WunWun bitch slapping that guy.

[Ser Knute]

1 hour ago, Lord Buckethead said:

I don't care much for Allisers way of seeing things, but I do believe that he at  least genuinely believes he is doing the right thing.  It is not really power hunger or hatred for Jon that drives him, or at least not just  that. He generally does what he thinks is best for the watch. 

I agree to an extent.  What really irks me about Alliser is his extreme inability to use common sense.  While he may have doubts about the Other threat, it's clear that LC Mormont believed, afterall he wasn't attacked by some random brother, they didn't just make up a story that Jon killed a wight... and Sam doesn't just fabricate corroboration from Cattle Black's library.  Surely Alliser and many other longstanding brothers have heard the tales.  So what exactly is PROOF enough for him to be on board?  Probably when a wight sticks his cold, dead hand down his throat shutting Alliser up for good.

I get that the show and even GRRM need an antagonist at the Wall to make Jon's preparation of the Watch difficult but this is one thing I find unbelievable, that someone with his experience is so seemingly willfully ignorant.  

What makes it even more absurd is his statement that Jon letting the Wildlings through will lead to peril for the Watch... immense HE let them through, Jon was at his mercy show-wise.  If he was so concerned he should've disobeyed that order, afterall to him it's all about the Watch right?  So he follows orders that puts the Order in the greatest peril as he sees it in his mind only to then commit treason against his LC AFTER the Wildlings are through... it just defies belief.  I get his plot purpose, but man is his intellect hard to grasp or believe.  It's about as believable as Roose never anticipating Ramsey would try to kill or usurp him.

Nitpicky... possibly but I just feel that part is a bit silly as far as reasoning and logic go.  I get the hatred of the Wildlings, but practically speaking the evidence and accounts by fellow brothers is too much to dismiss or to be ignored.

[Ser Morbid]

On 2. 5. 2016 at 4:55 AM, RadSam said:

I was fine with how Roose went out (it's completely in line with something Ramsay would do), with how quickly Jon came back (they have too much to cover for his story to have dragged it out), the NW refusing to fight (most of them were already torn and unhappy with what Thorne did, it wouldn't have taken much, just Edd's little push and, you know, being unnumbered and a giant to sway them to drop their weapons). 

What is not in Line is Roose being such a retard to get stabbed by such a shitwit that Ramsey is. I highly doubt that this will happen in books.

[Freefolk]

On 02/05/2016 at 0:28 PM, marsyao said:

To a fan girl? Yes, To brothers of NW, No FRIKING WAY

Well, of course the NW's first priority is to keep them away but the rules have changed. There would have been no NW anyway if they'd try and fight.

[Lady Fishbiscuit]

6 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said:

There must always be a giant psycho bag of dicks in ASOIAF. If not Ramsay, whom do you suggest? I mean, we need to meet the next übervillian before karma kicks Ramsay's ass, don't we?

And lo, along came the extended Greyjoy family to fill the void 

[The Black Adder of Dorne]

16 hours ago, Imp Beyond the Wall said:

But Ned was with Stag Party Bob in the Vale not at Winterfell.  

Wasn't that Ned, Benjen, Lyanna and Brandon?

 

Lyanna says to Benjen, "Who are you going to spar with when Ned goes off to The Eyrie?", so it's not long before the fostering.

 

4 hours ago, Barty said:

Too young to be Rodrik. Rodrik was around 60 in the series and 20 odd years ago (from the vision) he would have been 40 (that is much older than Ned when the series began). The guy overseeing Ned and Benjen did not seem to be more than a teenager to me. Brandon's supposed to be some sword fighting prodigy so isnt exactly impossible that he'd be training his brothers. 

Remember, most people have been aged up compared to the books. Ned is clearly past 40 in season one based on appearance (note Sean Bean was past 50 by the time this was filmed). If we suppose Ned is around 12-13 in the flashback, that puts it at least 30 years prior, which fits with Rodrik being in his early 20s then and in his 50s during season one.

[DJE]

5 hours ago, Barty said:

Too young to be Rodrik. Rodrik was around 60 in the series and 20 odd years ago (from the vision) he would have been 40 (that is much older than Ned when the series began). The guy overseeing Ned and Benjen did not seem to be more than a teenager to me. Brandon's supposed to be some sword fighting prodigy so isnt exactly impossible that he'd be training his brothers. 

According to IMDB, he was young Rodrik

[RadSam]

2 hours ago, Ser Morbid said:

What is not in Line is Roose being such a retard to get stabbed by such a shitwit that Ramsey is. I highly doubt that this will happen in books.

Yes, but this isn't the books we're talking about, it's the show. It worked for the show IMO.

21 hours ago, marsyao said:

 Many of the 'men of the nights watch' BEFORE THEY JOIN THE WATCH were thiefs, rapers, etc if you do not know the difference, I do not waste my time, I really do now want to waste my time to argue with you

 

A hint, NW is very much respected by people in Westero from high Lords to smallfolks,

I'm starting to think that you are either a troll or you aren't watching/reading the same series as everyone else here.

[Ingelheim]

6 hours ago, Barty said:

Too young to be Rodrik. Rodrik was around 60 in the series and 20 odd years ago (from the vision) he would have been 40 (that is much older than Ned when the series began). The guy overseeing Ned and Benjen did not seem to be more than a teenager to me. Brandon's supposed to be some sword fighting prodigy so isnt exactly impossible that he'd be training his brothers. 

He is Ser Rodrik. Just look at him. Also, credits and IMDB.

Also, the vision is maybe 30-35 years old, not 20. Let's not forget the characters were all aged up on the Show.

[CrypticWeirwood]

21 hours ago, lancerman said:

I don't think they cut LSH to save the surprise for Jon. I just think plot wise LSH is more of an isolated closure thing for Cat and won't have a major impact of the larger plots. 

We know that the actor playing Thoros is appearing this season.  Can you possibly think of why, especially without Beric also appearing?

[hallam]

9 hours ago, Spilt Pea Soup said:

It is quite possible there is some double-crossing and The North Remembers going on behind the scenes.   Roose laid the groundwork for this with his "mad dog" comment.  Too early to referee this plot turn, isn't it?  As Robert Jordan might have said, WAFO. 

Yup. When people are being stupid in GoT it is because their characters are being stupid because the plot has them as stupid.

The point of that scene wasn't to tell the audience anything new about Ramsay, it was to show that Ramsay is so out of control that he murders his own father in front of one of his bannermen. We know what Ramsay is but the Karstarks don't.

Also, the reason Karstark gives for their defection does sound pretty pathetic. His father was executed for disobeying an order and murdering prisoners. Less than five minutes after he says that, he stands by and watches Ramsay murder his own father in cold blood.

[Forlong the Fat]

10 hours ago, Morna The Maid said:

Not if the Reddit spoilers for the end of the season are true and so far, 100% of all the Reddit spoilers for the season we've seen have proved true.

 

Yes, it's no surprise that this episode had some of the best writing since Season 3. It's called quoting GRRM's phrases from the book, in contrast to D/D's Emmy-winning  writing "skills." GRRM  has more talent in his pinky finger with the turn of a well-timed phrase then they will ever have. And funny, this is one of the rare episodes from GoT that Dave and Dan didn't write themselves, it was Dave Hill.

 

I've been waiting all year to hear such throwaway classics from even minor characters like GRRM's Dolorous Edd, "There's nothing like a cup of hot horse blood on a cold night. I like mine with a pinch of cinnamon sprinkled on top," (from Book 5, and there are dozens more where that came from), but D/D's Edd has forgotten he ever had a sense of humor, it seems. Funny, when he had on the first three seasons. And that is why the audience loves and cares about Edd. Surely it wouldn't cost anything more to include that in the scripts? But oh no, instead we have to invent ever newer and improved more grisly ways to kill people from showrunner favorites like Ramsey.(If Dave Hill invented Walda's execution method himself, I'll eat my keyboard.  It sure ain't in the book.)

 

 

What spoilers are you referring to? I googled for this and found some "Reddit spoilers" that seemed to be at least 75% inaccurate so far.