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9 hours ago, DJE said:

I think he freed Viserion

That's what I thought.

This episode basically all but confirmed his Targy-ness. You can play the mental gymastics that they were on a hunger strike, but not why they didn't burn him.

I think the guy who told Ned to give him another go is a young Robert Baratheon.

Edited by Daendrew

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6 hours ago, of man and wolf said:

I dont understand why the Umbers would fight for the Boltons. GreatJon was Robb's most loyal bannerman.

 

Unless they are simply because the GreatJon is a captive at the Twins.

I'm somewhat convinced that there is going to be some kind of uprising against Ramsay. I think the Karstarks and perhaps the Umbers will pledge fealty intially out of pure fear. But I think that at some point word of Fat Walda's murder alongside the (arguable) trueborn heir of Roose Bolton (who happens to be a half-frey) will get back to Walder Frey & GreatJon. A plot is hatched at the twins, probably with LF and the Vale army to retake the north from the Bolton army. Where I get stuck is a) are they TRYING to get Rickon killed so that they can give the north to Sansa and marry her off to a son? or is the Rickon thing all going to be an excuse for the north to rise up? I can't imagine any true northman would watch the heir to winterfell, and a child to boot, be tortured and b- do the manderly's play a part in any of this?

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This season is with the theme of "coup" for all the houses. Dorne is done and this episode we see Boltons and Greyjoys too. The conflict has become on its edge and will probably resolve at the end of the season. 

Hurry up WW! Otherwise, all these stupid families will consume themselves without you.

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30 minutes ago, marsyao said:

Outrage enough to side with wilding agains NW brothers? Did wildling barg into avenge Jon's "death" make killing him justified? Of course, if fan boys and fan girls would not think about that

Think about it this way:

Many of the 'men of the nights watch' were thiefs, rapers, etc. They chose to join the nights watch, because they valued their lives. 

Some of them didn't support Thorne, but were afraid to be killed (just like Jon) if they decided to speak againt Thorne.

However, the moment Wun Wun breached that gate, those men knew the odds were with the wildlings, so they (still valuing their lives) sided with them to fight a common enemy (Thorne & co.)

I don't think that's odd at all. 

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7 hours ago, The Boastful Knight said:

Well, that was some major league bs they were trying to feed us. So, I guess besides St. Tyrion, D&D's favourite character is indeed Ramsay Sue. He is a genius, who outwits his cold, ruthless, calculating father. And how? By managing to get the northern lords on his side, Well, Karstark at least. And with the power of his charm I guess, because he has nothing else. A used-to-be bastard highborn son openly kills his father and no one bats an eye, now that's an accomplishment right there. Not only that, he's also a master tactician and strategist. But I suppose the Roose is not loose anymore, huh? And what was up with that awkward-as-hell hug? They seriously couldn't come up with a better way for Ramsay to off him? I bet they were thinking what geniouses they were because it mirrored how Roose killed Robb. Well that alone doesn't make it good, I'm sorry. And why would Roose let his guard down like that? It's even out of character for TV Roose to do so. And now that Ramsay killed his newborn brother, who will be his heir? I guess he plans on getting Sansa back to produce one, but just in case he should have let the baby live. Anyway, just like with every death on GoT nowadays, I feel sorry for the actor who did a great job with the piss poor material he was given. R.I.P. TV Roose.

I get the feeling that Ramsay thinks he has the Umbers, Katstarks and (was the 3rd one the Manderleys?) in the bag, which gives him the balance of power in the North.  In reality, I think those houses are playing along in a Northern plot to overthrow the Boltons.  A Karstark, who has reason to hate the Starks, is well placed to convince Ramsay, but Roose would always be sceptical.  They need to get rid of Roose, but how? If Ramsay believes that he has got all he needs from Roose and Roose is only going to hold him back from controlling the North, then killing Roose would appeal to him too.  Ramsay has been legitimised and Roose has publicly stated that Ramsay is his firstborn and heir.  If Roose is dead, he can't take it back, he can't belittle Ramsays plans and he can't call the shots.  Ramsay is able to get close enough to Roose to kill him.  Ramsay killing him rather than one of the other northerners makes them all still seem to be on Ramsay's side and makes him feel in control.  They would also let Walda be sacrificed, with her being a Frey.  Ramsay will be a lot easier for them to overthrow without Roose in the picture.

I agree that it's a shame to see Roose go. He's a really interesting character in both book and show and well cast.

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10 hours ago, Ser Knute said:

Good scenes in KL, nice slow reveal about the Faith and their goals... gonna reach a head real soon.  I guess Jaime is back to being a D.I.C.K.... but he is more interesting in that sense.  

One of the few things I still have lots of problems with the show is how Jaime is confident of his fighting skills compared to the books, where he knows he is a mediocre left-hand swordsman.

Sure, it doesn't take much to kill an unarmed man, but...

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Good episode.

Kings landing, just enough there to keep us up to date. Jaime and the Sparrow meeting was good, and yes Jaime could have killed him easily, to suggest otherwise is just silly. Jaime has been training for a long time now and the Sparrow has never trained and basically said he would offer no resistance.

Best Dorne scene ever!

Sansa and CO., yeah, I also think Theon is going back to Ramsey. He is like a battered person who thinks they have no place left to go. This could also be key in that he could be there for the attack and let the northern forces in the gates. Speaking of the Boltons, ehh who cares, Roose got what he had coming to him. Walda and the baby of course didn't deserve it but the plot must move forward.

Arya still getting along in her training. Wish they had gotten a cat involved though. I don't like how her warging has been left out.

Bran, I felt like the person who told Ned to give him another whack was the master of arms that Theon killed, he was just younger. I thought Robert and Ned met at when fostering. Good to see the Tower of Joy scene is next week, so do we get the whole answer to Jons parents next week? The same week he is revealed to be alive is he also confirmed to be a Prince? Also, did they confirm Bran will be a dragon rider? The 3 eyed raven told Bran he would fly some day. I assumed as a crow or raven while warging, I never thought Bran was going to leave the cave but they said this episode he will be leaving.

Mereen, I don't see in any way how this means Tyrion is partial Targaryen. He drinks and he knows things, this is what he does. He knows from history that dragons are intelligent and know who is the enemy and who is not. After all what good would they be in combat if they didn't? Unless I missed it there hasn't been the slightest clue in the show that he is anything but a Lannister.

The wall. Davos first, his devotion and asking Mel to bring Jon back is odd, they could have handled this better, like a scene last season where Mel talks to Davos and Stannis about what she saw with The Brotherhood. People saying they don't understand why the brothers laid down their arms? I am not surprised at all. A lot of them were loyal to Jon and feel he was murdered. The majority have never been honorable before so this is an easy excuse to lay down their arms while vastly outnumbered and unprepared, and oh yeah don't forget WunWun bitch slapping that guy.

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1 hour ago, Attitude said:

Think about it this way:

Many of the 'men of the nights watch' were thiefs, rapers, etc. They chose to join the nights watch, because they valued their lives. 

 

 Many of the 'men of the nights watch' BEFORE THEY JOIN THE WATCH were thiefs, rapers, etc if you do not know the difference, I do not waste my time, I really do now want to waste my time to argue with you

 

A hint, NW is very much respected by people in Westero from high Lords to smallfolks,

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My favorite part of the return of the HBO series is the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the book fanboys.  It's only going to be sweeter when we never get another book from GRRM, who is infinitely more interested in the Hugos than writing these books.  

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My thoughts on the show: 

1. Bran wahhh!
And apparently they're no going to stay in the cave forever?
I wonder when they leave if they'll be going north or south.... or really what the whole point of his powers will be long run. 
TOJ next week will be wonderful... I think its cool that we see the flashback, but have Bran's commentary on it as well. 

2 Tommen in not as cute as the book with his kitties xD
But I am happy to see that Jaime is there trying to guide him. If They kept Jaime in Kingslanding instead of the riverlands to let him be a father I will be ok with that. Cercei wouldn't let him in the books at all and that irritated me. 
I really don't understand Cercei this season.... In the books she goes from Annoying to increasingly crazy.... in the show she goes from annoying to calm and semi-rational.... =/

3. Greyjoy scenes starts- *Me to my boyfriend: WoW! They're showing Balon again... he was supposed to be dead like three seasons ago... Euron throwed him off a bridge in a storm.... hey... is that a storm? OMG there's a bridge! Euron's gonna come out ---- there he is!!!!!" xD
I guess Theon will be there for the Kingsmoot? I wonder if that will change anything? 

4. Ramsay killing Roose.... my reaction was yelling in shock. I had paused it right as Ramsay hugged Roose to explain the my boyfriend that Ramsay was probably going to murder his new baby brother. I then proceeded do a bunch of random stuff, and when I sat back down and pressed play he murders Roose xD
Logically I can understand WHY Ramsay did it... but he basically signed his own death certificate. 
There's no way Ramsay can control the North- Its just a matter of waiting to see how he will die, or who will kill him. 

5. Tyrion with the dragons... I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. My boyfriend said "Would't in be funny if the dragons just ate him and Tyrions story ended here.... and laughed." I had to give him an evil look =____=

6. Jon wakes up. I like that in the preview at the end of the episode they say the wildlings think Jon is some sort of god. This is what I always thought would happen in my head cannon. Also I guess he's just gonna walk out naked? xD
It made me wonder if he will be hot or cold.... mainly because there's several instances about him thinking he'll be cold forever, and his last thoughts in death were the cold. I wonder if the cold will stay with him, or if he'll be warm like Mel >.>
I also wonder how this will affect his decisions between Duty and Family with Sansa coming to visit since that really has always been the ultimate choice- We know Ned chose family in the end...

7 Sansa's scene was too short =/

8. Arya's plot is moving too slow, they could have done this in the last episode. 
I remember seeing Maisy Williams interview about this season and she said she was happy that the show had surpassed the books because now her scenes "Flowed together better" rather than forcing her stuff that has nothing to do with anything. She said that as a result though she gets less air time. I can see she's not getting much in terms of scenes, but I really don't think this is flowing very well. 

 

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34 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Sansa and CO., yeah, I also think Theon is going back to Ramsey. He is like a battered person who thinks they have no place left to go. This could also be key in that he could be there for the attack and let the northern forces in the gates. Speaking of the Boltons, ehh who cares, Roose got what he had coming to him. Walda and the baby of course didn't deserve it but the plot must move forward.

Bran, I felt like the person who told Ned to give him another whack was the master of arms that Theon killed, he was just younger. I thought Robert and Ned met at when fostering. Good to see the Tower of Joy scene is next week, so do we get the whole answer to Jons parents next week? The same week he is revealed to be alive is he also confirmed to be a Prince? Also, did they confirm Bran will be a dragon rider? The 3 eyed raven told Bran he would fly some day. I assumed as a crow or raven while warging, I never thought Bran was going to leave the cave but they said this episode he will be leaving.

I too think that the older youth with muttonchops is most likely a young Ser Rodrik, the late master-at-arms of Winterfell. At first I thought it was Brandon, but the hair style and clothes suggest he was not a Stark. And he is definitely not Robert Baratheon. Ned and Robert was about the same age.

I can't fathom why the Umbers would give Rickon to a psycho like Ramsay, but he is the gift, not Theon. We saw in the trailers that Theon reunites with his sister, Ramsay would never do such a mercy to Theon by sending him home.

At first I jumped with glee 'Bran will go back home to Winterfell' at the CoTF's words to Meera, then sad realization came that it could also be Bran going North, to the lands of always winter.

I am still holding out hope to Arya to exhibit her warg powers. So far, only Bran has shown any ability to warg. They show strong connection between Jon and Ghost but he is never shown warging into Ghost. But if Arya gets out of her current situation (blind fighter - Jaqen stopped her being a beggar but she is still blind) using her warging ability, it will come off as a astonishing to show-fans at least. The surprise element will be ruined if Jon was also shown as a warg earlier. It is similar to how they cut Lady Stoneheart to Jon's death and resurrection will have more impact on viewers.

 

Edited by Hos the Hostage

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I don't think they cut LSH to save the surprise for Jon. I just think plot wise LSH is more of an isolated closure thing for Cat and won't have a major impact of the larger plots. 

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9 hours ago, JagLover said:

Yep

We have had about six complaints about Davos being respectful to Melisandre, which is only a plot hole if Davos is telepathic. If he finds out that she burned Shireen and his response is to shrug his shoulders THEN you can talk of a plot hole.

Decent episode I thought let down only by a few scenes (like the opening one)

 

 

Davos will probably kill Mel once he finds out.  This all makes sense in the context of my "Shireen's True Purpose" theory from A Compendium of Theories.  In the books, Shireen and Mel are at the wall with Jon.  Stannis is at war.  As we all know, the Stannis of the books would NEVER sacrifice Shireen.  We now know from the show that 1) Shireen most likely dies and 2) Jon is resurrected by Mel.  It seems all but apparent now that in the books, Mel will burn Shireen which will revive Jon.  Davos will then kill Mel.  We end up at the exact same place.  Unfortunately, D&D certainly didn't show the same level of respect for Stannis as GRRM.

Edited by Stannis Lives

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4 hours ago, marsyao said:

Outrage enough to side with wilding agains NW brothers? Did wildling barg into avenge Jon's "death" make killing him justified? Of course, if fan boys and fan girls would not think about that

You are confused about the difference between "siding with" the wildlings and "surrendering" to them. Surrendering, to emphasize, after they just saw Wun Wun shrug off a crossbow bolt and then with one swipe grab the shooter & smash him against a wall.

Besides, both in the show (which is relevant to this discussion) but also in the books the NW hasn't been acting heroically or principled lately -- they've mutinied & murdered their last two Lord Commanders.

As an aside: do you either watch the show or read the books? It seems you do neither.

Edited by Donaldys I Trumpagar

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Is the slightly older guy watching Ned and Benjen Stark Brandon? Or possibly a young Rodrik Cassell? Or just some previous Winterfell master-at-arms?

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4 hours ago, Daendrew said:

I think the guy who told Ned to give him another go is a young Robert Baratheon.

But Ned was with Stag Party Bob in the Vale not at Winterfell.  

Wasn't that Ned, Benjen, Lyanna and Brandon?

 

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1 hour ago, Stannis Lives said:

Davos will probably kill Mel once he finds out.  This all makes sense in the context of my "Shireen's True Purpose" theory from A Compendium of Theories.  In the books, Shireen and Mel are at the wall with Jon.  Stannis is at war.  As we all know, the Stannis of the books would NEVER sacrifice Shireen.  We now know from the show that 1) Shireen most likely dies and 2) Jon is resurrected by Mel.  It seems all but apparent now that in the books, Mel will burn Shireen which will revive Jon.  Davos will then kill Mel.  We end up at the exact same place.  

Fair points, except that in the books, Davos is either in White Harbor or off in search of Rickon.  It actually makes more sense that The Queen, the Queen's Men or Jon himself kill Mel.  Knowing Lord Dragon Crow, his sense of honor might outweigh his sense of gratitude.   

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35 minutes ago, Imp Beyond the Wall said:

Fair points, except that in the books, Davos is either in White Harbor or off in search of Rickon.  It actually makes more sense that The Queen, the Queen's Men or Jon himself kill Mel.  Knowing Lord Dragon Crow, his sense of honor might outweigh his sense of gratitude.   

You are right.  I shouldn't have been so committal on Davos.  Completely up in the air on who puts her out of her misery.  

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