Rockroi Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 (edited) So a few people reposted my comments about the episode so thanks; awfully kind of you and I am glad you enjoyed my tongue-and-cheek (and salty) rendition of the episode. But others brought perfectly fair criticisms and observations (which I hope to address) while others gave the knee-jerk reactions we have all come to love and expect here on the boards (they include “If-you-don’t-like-iyt-why-do-you-watch?” and “stop being such a book-purist." But I like the discussion so lets work with what people said: Attitude: On 5/4/2016 at 6:59 AM, Attitude said: You do realise that Jon will also come back / won't be dead in the books right. GRRM did the same, and GRRM also did the same with Catelyn, which the show didn't do. Well, lets assume he does the EXACT same thing with Jo; I'll hate it there too. And I never warmed to the Cat stark part BUt at the very least they were more gradual there and that story made a little more sense given the confluence of events that had to happen (including Nymeria). But I never liked Lady Stoneheart so its a complaint both ways. In this regard, I am not singling out the show as much as complaining on the general misuse of the "dead/not-dead" trope. In fact, when I wrote a review on these Boards of DoD, one of my major complaints was that Martin had cheapened death because JUST as we were in denial about Ned's death, we are utterly correct to believe that Jon will be back. And that's a shame for this story. On 5/4/2016 at 6:59 AM, Attitude said: You pretty much hate everything the writers thought out themselves. I guess that's because you expect perfect recreated book scene's. Now they decide to take the ToJ and recreate it, and you suddenly say the writers that they are only able to copy stuff GRRM already wrote. Can't you see those statements contradict eachother? What do you expect from them? You don't want them to change the story (let's not get into the reason why they change it for now), but you also hate it when they copy GRRM's work. What should they do? Stop the show entirely? Not true. Merely because someone sucks at something doesn't mean that every now and then they don't get something right on their own. Case-in-point, in my review I mentioned that show-Cersei is a better overall character than book-Cersei; same is true for Robert and Viserys (but, sadly, few others). Now this could be for many many reasons - maybe the book set a low bar; maybe the actor is doing a fantastic job; or maybe the runners nailed their interpretation. They are not "recreating" the ToJ scene; they are copying it. In fact, they line we have seen are among THE MOST MEMORABLE LINES FROM THE BOOK! I don't blame them for copying it; I just think that's an easier job. When they go off on their own? Disaster - oh let me count the ways: Jon Snow at Craster's + Bran at Craster's; Jaime and Cersei's "No, Not A Rape" scene; Anything in Dorne; Brienne in the North; Shae-the-Funny-Whore; The re-interpretation of Stannis; etc etc etc. I think the show is at its best when it interprets what is there; its at its worst when it has to figure out what should be there. On 5/4/2016 at 7:24 AM, RadSam said: And also, enough with the constant whinging and complaining. If the show is that horrible that you have to complain about every little aspect of it, do us all a favour and just stop watching it. Oh, I'm ... I'm sorry ... I didn't know that this thread was for "Believers" only; D&D praise-be-their-names... Be Silent All Heretics Who Dare Preach Alternative Views! BE GONE FROM THIS TEMPLE!!!! On 5/4/2016 at 10:35 AM, Greg B said: Second, it's no surprise that some of the worst show content (Dorne) is based on some of the weakest book content. Fair point, but even here, the Show's re-interpretation of the books is substantively worse. Doran Martell is weak in the show; in the books he is portrayed as more mentally able; scheming and a long-term planner with a wide-view of the world. The story with Marcella, in the show, is "kill-now-think-later"; in the book, while a weak story, its a clearer story, not as silly and not as weakly delivered. On 5/4/2016 at 10:35 AM, Greg B said: Third, it's not D&D or HBO's fault they have to make up stuff Its not their fault that they have to make it up; no question there. Martin's pace of writing is what it is (I honestly have to write it that way for fear that I may get edited/banned) and we are likely not getting a book this year (my money- as it has been since 2011 - was that the next book would be released in 2017). However, they have not exactly made lemonade ot of these lemons. Stannis' end was probably the worst story-telling I have ever seen; Brienne in the North is not compelling; Ramsey is not as interesting as he was in the books and neither is Theon/Reek; Dorne is not just made up, its been abandoned. And we are only a few episodes into our brave-new-world. What stupidity are we in store for? On 5/5/2016 at 6:46 AM, ummester said: Show Cersie is a deeper character than book Cersie Book Tyrion has far more character depth than show Tyrion Agree with both these points. While I have sort-of liked that the show avoided the "Tysha" storyline from the books, Tyrion in the books is more complex and more nuanced. Yes, sometimes his "I'm a dwarf" moaning can grate on a reader, but I the book allows for more depth, more viewing and less filler. The show seems like it feels OBLIGATED to include Tyrion and at no time can they capture what the book have there (though, I readily admit Dinklidge is incredible). Cersei is better in the show. Maybe its Hedley; maybe its her anchoring of that story-line; maybe its the writing. But she has been a better character since that scene in Bran's sickroom. I think its a true accomplishment of the show. On 5/5/2016 at 8:27 AM, TepidHands said: My reply to the poster was meant to address his apparent anger about criticism of the show and telling critics: If you don't like it, stop watching. Yup; exactly. I knew what you meant. 10 hours ago, RadSam said: The posts I'm talking about aren't just pointing out flaws and successes. I'm talking about the elitist book fans who expect it to be conveyed book to screen with 100% accuracy. It's not going to happen. But that has never been my criticism or most others. We do not demand 100% accuracy. We just want stuff that makes sense and is true to the narrative. I sued to call GoT an "alternate reality" from ASoIaF; but that is no longer true. Now its a bizzaro world where characters do things that don't make sense; deaths are no longer tethered to the story and dumb people do dumb things. And if I am an elitist because I ... read books (*sigh... I can't believe literacy is so caste-defining) then, yeah, sorry I have no problem with being an elitist in this regard. Edited May 6, 2016 by Rockroi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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